Audio

311: Nick Shackelford On How To Scale An Ecommerce Business With Ads

311: Nick Shackelford On How To Scale An Ecommerce Business With Ads

Today I’m happy to have Nick Shackelford on the show. Nick runs Structured Social which is a company that specializes in the growth of ecommerce brands. He is a master of paid media, has spent over 85 million on Facebook and pioneered well-known products like the fidget spinner.

In this episode, we’re going to discuss how he scales ecommerce brands with paid advertising.

What You’ll Learn

  • How Nick got started with advertising
  • How to spend millions of dollars on Facebook ads
  • The difference between a good media buyer and a bad one
  • How to make ads to sell boring mundane products

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Postscript.io – Postscript.io is the SMS marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Postscript specializes in ecommerce and is by far the simplest and easiest text message marketing platform that I’ve used and it’s reasonably priced. Click here and try Postscript for FREE.
Postscript.io

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Klaviyo

EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.

Emerge Counsel

I Need Your Help

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please support me with an iTunes review. It's easy and takes 1 minute! Just click here to head to iTunes and leave an honest rating and review of the podcast. Every review helps!
 

Ready To Get Serious About Starting An Online Business?


If you are really considering starting your own online business, then you have to check out my free mini course on How To Create A Niche Online Store In 5 Easy Steps.

In this 6 day mini course, I reveal the steps that my wife and I took to earn 100 thousand dollars in the span of just a year. Best of all, it's absolutely free!

310: How To Make Money When You Have No Money With Steve Chou

310: How To Make Money When You Have No Money With Steve Chou

In this episode, I will teach you how to make money with no money in a sustainable way that can eventually lead to a profitable online business.

This tutorial will assume that you are starting from complete scratch with no audience, no connections and no prior business experience at all.

What You’ll Learn

  • How to make your first 1000 dollars without paying a dime
  • The best business model to make money.
  • What you have to do when you have no money to start a business

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Postscript.io – Postscript.io is the SMS marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Postscript specializes in ecommerce and is by far the simplest and easiest text message marketing platform that I’ve used and it’s reasonably priced. Click here and try Postscript for FREE.
Postscript.io

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Klaviyo

EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
Emerge Counsel

I Need Your Help

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please support me with an iTunes review. It's easy and takes 1 minute! Just click here to head to iTunes and leave an honest rating and review of the podcast. Every review helps!
 

Ready To Get Serious About Starting An Online Business?


If you are really considering starting your own online business, then you have to check out my free mini course on How To Create A Niche Online Store In 5 Easy Steps.

In this 6 day mini course, I reveal the steps that my wife and I took to earn 100 thousand dollars in the span of just a year. Best of all, it's absolutely free!

309: How My Student Joel Cherrico Makes 6 Figures Selling Pottery Online

309: How My Student Joel Cherrico Makes 6 Figures Selling Pottery Online

Today I’m really happy to have Joel Cherrico on the show. Not only was Joel a student in my Create A Profitable Online Store Course but he might have been student number 1.

Joel is a potter and he hand creates amazing ceramics of which I have several pieces in my living room. As you know, selling art is probably one of the most difficult products to sell online because you have to create a following in order to command premium pricing.

In this episode, we delve deeply into his story to discover how he turned his art into a thriving business.

What You’ll Learn

  • How Joel got started making pottery
  • How Joel can charge $500 per mug that he sells online
  • How to become famous
  • How to build a following of super fans

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Postscript.io – Postscript.io is the SMS marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Postscript specializes in ecommerce and is by far the simplest and easiest text message marketing platform that I’ve used and it’s reasonably priced. Click here and try Postscript for FREE.
Postscript.io

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Klaviyo

EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
Emerge Counsel

Transcript

Steve: You’re listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and delve deeply into the strategies, they use to grow their businesses. Now today, I have a very special guest on the show Joel Cherrico. Now Joel is one of the first students that ever join my create a profitable online store course and after many years of consistent work, he has created a solid six figure business selling his own hand thrown Pottery over at CherricoPottery.com. Here’s how he did it.

But before we begin I want to thank PostScript for sponsoring this episode. Now if you run an e-commerce business of any kind, you know how important it is to own your customer contact list. And this is why I’m focusing a significant amount of my efforts on SMS marketing. I sincerely believe that SMS or text message marketing is going to be a huge channel for my store going forward and I have chosen PostScript.io to be my text provider. Now why PostScript? it’s because they specialize in e-commerce stores and e-commerce is their primary focus and not only is it easy to use but you can quickly segment your audience based on your exact sales data and implement automated flows like an abandoned cart at the push of a button. Not only that it’s priceable too and you only pay for the messages that you actually send. So head on over to PostScript.io/Steve and try it for free. That’s postscript.io/Steve.

I also want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode. Now, it’s safe to say that most of us have been doing more online shopping lately. And if you’re an e-commerce brand, that means you might be seeing more first time customers, but once they made that first purchase, how do you keep them coming back? Well, that’s What Klaviyo is for. Klaviyo is the ultimate email and SMS marketing platform for e-commerce Brands. It gives you the tools to build your contact list. Send memorable emails automate key messages and more a lot more and that’s why more than 30,000 e-commerce Brands like Chubbies Brooklyn and Livingproof use Klaviyo to build a loyal following. Strong customer relationships mean more repeat sales enthusiastic word of mouth and less depending on third-party ads. So whether you’re launching a new business or taking your brand to the next level Klaviyo can help you grow faster and it is free to get started. Visit Klaviyo.com/mywife to create a free account. That’s Klaviyo.com/mywife. Now on to the show.

Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle. So you can spend more time with your family and focus on doing the things that you love. Here’s your host Steve Chou.

Steve: Welcome to My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast today, I’m really happy to have Joel Cherrico on the show. Now Not only was Joel a student in my create a profitable online store course, but I believe that he was actually student number one or two way back in 2011. In fact, he signed up for the $99 package. The course is a cost 1,700 bucks and that $99 package didn’t include videos or live office hours. There was a it was a no support tier basically but it didn’t last long and so I ended up Upgrading him soon after to the full package.

Anyway, Joel is a Potter and he makes his own amazing Pottery of which I have actually several pieces in my own living room. And as you all know selling art is probably one of the most difficult products to sell online because you have to create a following people buy your products because of you and over the years Joel has created an amazing audience and has done very well. So today we are going to delve deeply into this story and find out exactly how he did it and with that welcome to show Joel. How you doing, man?

Joel: I’m doing great. You know, thanks. Thanks for bringing me on Steve because we go way back. So I really appreciate all your enthusiasm over the years and I think I actually paid, I was going to pay a little more for that course, but your wife talked you into a discount so you’ll have to thank her for me.

Steve: Yeah, when I launched it was only I think was $99 to the cheapest one and it was $299 for the most expensive one.

Joel: Yeah, I think I’m ready to do some pottery or something for you.

Steve: I think so. I think that’s what it was because at the time you had no money at all if I recall.

Joel: yeah. Oh, yeah for a few years. I was I was really bootstrapped. I was I was basically just living as a not quite a starving artist because I traded a lot of pottery for food, but it was it was tough for a couple of years while I really refined my craft and more importantly when it comes to the internet figuring out proper how to be a proper business person online with art. That’s a that’s a unique challenge so it took a few years, but it’s going pretty well now.

Stwvw: So how did you get started with pottery and what made you decide to start like an online business selling it?

Joel: well When I was 18 for whatever reason I got to college and I was pre-med and I had all these big dreams of becoming a doctor but there’s one problem. I was getting terrible grades in my biology, chemistry. I was getting D’s and F’s and I just hated it too. It’s really struggling and I had taken some pottery in high school. I made about a hundred pieces of pottery and I won an award from for my high school graduating class for pottery. So I knew I was pretty good at it. But I was like, haha how am I going to make a living doing this but for whatever reason I decided that I was going to switch to Art.

So I studied art for four years and right away. I decided I wanted to figure out how to make a living as a Potter. I knew some people did this and it there was you know, people were College professors some people sold Pottery. So I spent four years in college treating that like a pottery apprenticeship really intense working as much as I could. Just trying to get out of all my classes and be on the pottery wheel to refine the craft. With my senior year I knew I had to make a living somehow. So I took some business classes and noticed really quickly the unlimited potential of the internet and reaching people globally and trying to figure out how to pack and ship something fragile took another few years, but it’s been about 15 years of trying to do Pottery full-time.

About 10 years as an actual LLC business and it’s finally started to take off a few years ago some major things happened. And now it’s a prospering business with some employees and we’re looking to expand into a lot of different Avenues.

Steve: That’s awesome. And I have to thank your dad for introducing us. How the heck did he find me actually was it random?

Joel: It was it was probably Google searching. He’s probably just worried about his artist son.

Steve: Yeah

Joel: You know, I give him a business plan. That was I don’t know 90 pages long and rambling about all these ways to make money and he probably was just trying. He’s probably just trying to do the same himself and I’m pretty sure he found you Google searching somehow.

Steve: Yeah, I mean you got cool parents to to be so supportive of your business, you know, I got to hand it to them, hand it to your parents.

Joel: Yeah. My mom was always big in the music people always ask me if my parents did pottery and none they never did. I mean, my mom was a nurse but loved supporting trying to get us into into the Arts and Music and I want a lot of awards and trumpet early on which people Really know about but I had a lot of skill and it’s strange that that transferred into a different art form completely and my dad was he worked for IBM is whole life. So for them to be supportive in something like Pottery, I think they knew that because I’d had so many successes and awards that it was something real.

It wasn’t it wasn’t something that I was just wanted to do only because I was passionate about it. There was a real purpose there and that finally started to it took a few years there were some rough years. But it’s been prosperous long term.

Steve: So how did you know that you could actually make a business out of this where there are other with there a bunch of Potters that you kind of looked up to that we’re making a full-time living doing this?

Joel: you know, it’s rare it’s rare, but I pieced together some of the best parts that I saw from not, First It was Potters but later it was other entrepreneurs when I started actually reading business books right around the time that I took your course and the year or two after that, so It was it was one Potter who I saw she had some mugs on her website and they were eighty two dollars each and I remember thinking man a coffee mug for $82 that seems like I knew I could make a lot of coffee mugs. Like I can hand craft a lot of these things and I just I wanted to bridge that gap of finding out how someone her name is Ayumi Horry and she’s still

Steve: That sounds familiar. I remember looking at her website, yeah

Joel: I probably was just obsessed with her back then and I’ve reached out to her a little bit and she’s a she’s a professional in our field but I saw those her pot sell immediately when she would send a simple email to her mailing list a couple years later after I’ve read a lot of business books. I tried to I was inspired by Tim Ferriss his real world MBA and tried to give myself enough knowledge that it would be like if I had gone to business grad school. So he says something in one of his books that great marketing works the first time and that’s really what I saw in Ayumi’s work it was.

Not just I mean it’s marketing you could call it that but if something more it was a way it was a key to something that could be a livelihood.

Steve: So how did you get your name out there? Because I know that you sell out every time now to and I’m actually on your email list. Yeah, thank you for initial strategy for just building awareness. I guess for what you do?

Joel: Well, I tried a lot of different things and honestly, I sold mostly locally for the first few years and I needed that time to to see how people reacted to the work in person. Most importantly I would throw pots in front of people. I demonstrate my craft. So when Facebook live was created when Periscope was created and even YouTube you can live stream that wasn’t around in 2010. So these when these Technologies happened I had the skills to translate that on the internet. I I now have a film studio. It’s a space we devote only to basically me performing Pottery throwing demonstrations on video.

Combine that with the fact that it’s live and that now we have all these Tools mailing lists giveaway software. All these ways to reach people are our email list is tens of thousands of people now, so the tools on the internet. Just yesterday, there were a few thousand people in my studio that could never happen in person, but thanks to a simple video. There can be a hundred people in my studio at a single time and that really does translate into a lot more people wanting to buy your art.

Steve: So walk us through the process here. So up until those Technologies you were just kind of doing local throwing and maybe Live Throwing and getting some business that way but once these live Technologies came out, can you walk me through how you got started there?

Joel: Yeah, it’s pretty simple. I just opened it. I bought a smartphone and I downloaded Periscope and I put it I put it on a tripod and I just clicked live and I literally just I started one fan at a time. We all start with 0 followers. When the mailing list started. I think when I was taking your course, it was three or four hundred people and I literally just I started slowly and steadily and I explored every online tool available every option one of the Biggest influences on my on the tools I use is an author named Ryan Holiday. Are you familiar with Ryan

Steve: Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah.

Joel: So I’ve read all his books. I’ve met him a couple times. He actually owns few pieces of my Arts. So he’s got one on his kitchen table which kind of blew my mind because it’s a kind of a big piece and though the first book he wrote it start. It’s it’s it’s an easy read as short. It’s quick and it’s all about getting started short and quick and start with a mailing list of 300 people who who you know, and I’ve learned that the best way to promote your work is often a give it away for free. So through giveaways through a free email newsletter when you’re making a type of especially coffee mug, most of what I do is coffee mugs. That’s just beautiful and people really connect with it.

I mean, that’s how I’ve connected with people like Ryan and Tim Ferriss. He owns a couple pieces. It’s not because they bought my work it’s because I mailed it off to them for free. There’s Is a huge piece of Mind in Neil deGrasse Tyson’s office right now because

Steve: That’s awesome.

Joel: I mailed stuff off to him for free and that developed into a business relationship.

Steve: I know you got mentioned on the Tim Ferriss podcast was that after you gave him one of them?

Joel: So I basically, Yeah. I asked if I could send him some things the cosmic mug was inspired by his Muse concept combining that with the he has a concept called The Muse in the 4-Hour workweek his first book. That’s that’s what bird the cosmic mug, so he He has the one of the very first ones that popped up and I’ve been in in contact with his assistants numerous assistance over the years and we’ve never decided on any kind of collaboration really but it’s you know, he just interviewed Neil deGrasse Tyson like a month ago. So it’s amazing that you start to see these connections and it’s really just putting pieces of the puzzle together.

Steve: Where would you say was like the inflection point like you’re grinding you’re grinding you’re building up your scriber list one subscribe to a time. What was the Tipping Point?

Joel: You know, it’s funny you say that because in 2015, I was I read that book two or three times by Malcolm Gladwell Tipping Point. I was obsessed with it and I can think of a few a few times when that lime light comes on you and then and then it goes away. So one major one was when I decided to turn the cosmic mug into a Kickstarter because that was the best tool at the time. For for putting it out into the world. So in one month this one type of coffee mug raised I we had $25,000 goal and it raised $34,000 and we shipped them to 16 different countries. So that was a nice success and validated the idea. It wasn’t massive but it was it was enough to say okay. There’s really something here and then a couple months later.

Steve: How did you market the Kickstarter because you have to kind of see it yourself with your own audience

Joel: Totally. Totally it was a building it. I spent about a year researching taking that Muse concept from the 4-Hour workweek and researching Kickstarter projects. I took another course actually. It’s by his name is Klay Abear and he studied with Seth

Steve: I know Klay abear. Yeah

Joel: That’s awesome.

Steve: Yeah, we’re going to Mastermind together. I love that guy, yeah.

Joel: Yeah. Well, so I’ll so after I studied with you. I basically studied with Klay specific to Kickstarter and that investment paid off obviously. So so the the kickstarter was a yeah, I it was a slow building I was Klay was big on build your list. So I was building the list by giving away free Cosmic mugs and letting people sign up for free when they wanted the chant when they wanted one to buy. So the kickstarter was a chance for them to get one at a discounts as their high-end mugs are kind of expensive and

Steve: How did you and more to just continue to give him away because shipping is kind of expensive too right?

Joel: Oh, yeah. These are clay, fragile pieces of pottery. If you drop it, it’s going to break. So I was still at farmer’s markets. I was still at art shows grinding it out. That I was still selling a little bit of pottery online and educating my customers on why you know how to how to make it affordable for shipping and why it needs to be a certain price for shipping. I was still figuring that out and I just I just did it. I saw it all is investing in the business. I just that’s the best you can spend $100 on a Facebook ad or you could give away a couple mugs. And I think the value of giving away your art your art what you make if it’s good is always your best marketing.

Steve: So, you had that Kickstarter which was successful and that I imagine built your list even further and then when did The Guinness Book of World Records? When did that fall into place?

Joel: About three months after that? So, I took that the Kickstarter money. I basically… I use that money to figure out the next step. It wasn’t enough to really build a Pottery Studio, you know that 34 thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money in a single month, but I had to create pack and ship a thousand pieces of pottery.

Steve: That’s crazy.

Joel: Yeah costs over 20 grand and I think I pay yourself. So, I was still scraping by, but I decided you know what, I like to. I was single I was just living in a little apartment. I was like, you know what I’m going to keep… I’m going to keep exploring what I want to explore so I had been practicing for the Guinness World Records title for its “Most Pots Thrown in One Hour by an Individual” Throwing pottery means twisting Pottery on a wheel and so I decided I was going to practice and I spent about a year practicing but after the Kickstarter I spent… I took a whole month and I was like I was training for a marathon five or six hours a day because I was doing on my kick wheel. There’s another record now, it’s someone else has it but they did it on an electric wheel.

Steve: That’s cheating.

Joel: Yeah, so I was I was kicking the wheel to do it and the previous record holder did a hundred and fifty on an electric wheel and so I hired a couple students to film the whole thing, and I did it on public space and I got it on my first try I made a hundred and fifty-nine. So, I beat it in an hour and you can find that on YouTube. It’s pretty cool to watch.

Steve: You probably have to be in shape to do that to right? For an hour like physically in shape?

Joel: It was excruciating. Yeah. I was just dripping sweat and is one pot every 24 seconds for an hour straight. I had no idea if I could do it so that that was the first kind of made that was a Tipping Point. You could say it was a nice piece of publicity Guinness World Records actually came to the town where I’m at in interviewed me after that, so it had a long effect of nice publicity.

Steve: So did it generate any sales as a result of that or?

Joel: I mean, it’s still generating.

Steve: Oh really okay. Okay

Joel: It’s hard to calculate it’s not something that it that’s trackable like a Facebook ad. But but it’s I mean the fact that we’re talking about it right now means it was a milestone that was really important for showing me what’s possible. Well with zero budget.

Steve: Okay. Okay. And so you got in the Guinness Book of World Records that sent you some some traffic, I guess in some sales was that enough to sustain a living at that point?

Joel: still wasn’t, no. No. I was still showing locally. I was probably up to maybe 30 or 40 percent of of my Pottery entering the world through the internet people, you know, people were still kind of The tools may not have been ready or I may not have been ready. But basically once I started to do video and embrace video, especially live streaming video, Facebook live, Periscope when Guinness World Records came, we did a Facebook live video. And so I spent an hour with Guinness World Records with them at they had the microphone and I was throwing Pottery talking about the record and 300,000 people watched that

Steve: Oh three hundred thousand. Wow

Joel: Yeah more than that and then I Videos on my own and a couple of them were watched by over a million people.

Steve: Wow. Okay. This is like Facebook live or what is this?

Joel: It was all Facebook live, Periscope didn’t have nearly as high of a reach for whatever reason my fans want to hang out on Facebook.

Steve: And so I’m sorry you had a million people live?

Joel: Numerous times. I’ve had a couple million when I’ve livestream on what I do is I’d live stream on other pages on Facebook that this kind of hippie Pages once called expanded Consciousness and two million people watched me in an evening throw pottery and then I would just do it on my own my CherricoPottery page and 200,000 would watch.

Steve: Wow!

Joel: I think that was something when it was new there’s we were obsessed with the new because now I do I do a scheduled video schedule about 10 every single month and they’re watched by an average of five to ten thousand people each so it goes up and down.

Steve: No, but I mean that’s still a lot. So when you do it on someone else’s page, Imagine you have to ask for permission and everything, right?

Joel: Yeah. I connected with those pages the same way. I connected with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Tim Ferriss initially. I just messaged them or email them or said hey, would you like a free piece of pottery or with throwing this Pottery serve your fans? I think, you know people seem to like it maybe they would like to see it and they would just say sure and I would live stream for a couple hours. I would try to be professional. I ended up building a professional live streaming Studio, which is pretty simple it’s just a pottery wheel with a curtain in the background, space technology.

Steve: Right. Right. So when you get all those people like a couple million people watching you live. I imagine you just your sales go Bonkers, right?

Joel: So the biggest difference between all of your fans who are listening and what I do is most businesses have a scalable product in quantity. I knew from day one that my hands can only make so many pots and sure I can hire a bunch of potters and I still might but that’s not why people want to support the art. That’s not why they’re part of this journey and following my story. It’s because they want to connect with an artist and they want to connect with something that I’ve crafted. So what I did was I made more intricate art. I made more valuable art.

I made one offs that were more rare and then a grouping of a hundred that are simpler. So I’ll have a $50 mug and I would have a $500 mug and that’s how it works to this day.

Steve: I see and so do you make any of the less expensive mugs anymore or

Joel: oh, yeah, but they they don’t stay in stock. So that the problem is they sell out especially with it’s a mug with a handle because I make plates, bowls, all kinds of things but there’s something magical about a mug and I can’t keep them in stock for 50 or 60 or $70. So are five hundred dollar ones. I’ve got a lot of those in stock right now and then Two to three hundred dollar ones fewer of those and anything below $100 tends to sell too quickly for me to keep it in stock. And that’s been sustainable for now. I want to offer lower-priced things, but I’ve got a few challenges to figure out before we’re able to do that.

Steve: Yeah, but if your hand making everything I can imagine that price point being worth it.

Joel: It’s not responsible for an artist to have really low prices and struggle to make a living.

Steve: Yeah

Joel: I did that man. I spent five years doing that after college. So I tried and I loved it while I was doing it that time is over and at some point if you’re going to make a living as an artist, you need to raise the quality of your work and then raise your prices and take the criticism that’s going to come with.

Steve: Does that mean that every single one of your pieces is completely unique every time you make it?

Joel: Yep. Yep. There’s it’s impossible for them to be identical which is part of the magic of clay.

Steve: If you sell an Amazon or run any online business for that matter, you’re going to need a trademark to protect your intellectual property. Not only that but a trademark is absolutely necessary to register your brand on Amazon. Now, I used to think that any old trademark registration service would work and that could even try to register my own trademark by myself on the cheap, but I was dead wrong. Securing a trademark without a strategy in place usually results in either an outright rejection or a worthless unenforceable trademark. Now, that is why I work with Stephen Wiegler and his team from Emerge counsel. They have a package service called total TM, which provides the same attention to detail and process that large law firms do at a fraction of the price. Now for me personally, I like Emerge Council because of their philosophy, their goal is to maximize IP protection while minimizing the price. So before you decide to register a trademark by yourself or file for other I could protection such as a copyright or a patent, check out Emerge counsel first and get a free consult. For more information go to emergecouncil.com and click on the Amazon sellers button and tell Steve that Steve sent you to receive a $100 discount on the total TM package for Amazon sellers. Once again, that’s emergecounsel.com over at emergecounsel.com. Now back to the show.

Steve: So when you want to do one of those lives, I would imagine even the more expensive pieces sell out right when you have that many people on?

Joel: So so that was happening back when you write when Guinness World Records happened and I was getting millions and millions of views. That’s what was happening. So what I did was I it was gut wrenching at first, but I raised all my prices and then I raised him again and then I raised him again. So the $25 mug went to 45 and I added a layer of glaze Is then I went to 85 then it went to a hundred and twenty-five for a coffee mug and I added multiple layers of glaze with brighter colors and I tried to communicate that intricacy. So the ones that are $500 if they take ten times as long to make than a $50 mug. That’s why they’re worth the price.

Steve: I see did people Flinch when that happen when you started raising prices?

Joel: People will still Flinch, two things happens people got really upset and flinched and the mug sold out.

Steve: Yeah, so would you say that those aren’t your Target customers in the first place? Then? I mean your true fans are the ones that are willing to pay the price for Quality.

Joel: Yeah, I wrote an article for the American craft Council called the search for 1,000 true fans and it was inspired by this article by Kevin Kelly. It was a one of the founders of Wired Magazine. Have you heard of this article before?

Steve: I haven’t read the article, but I mean a thousand true fans. That’s a well-known. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah, and so the idea is if you can sell a product for $100 and I know these coffee mugs $100 per mug this was this was largely inspired by me my own selfish. How do I how can I do this? How can I make a living? So I’m kind of forgetting your question. I’m not hoping I rambling here.

Steve: No, no, no. It’s just basically when you raise your prices people flinched and then I started talking about. Hey, those weren’t your true customers or your true fans.

Joel: Okay, that’s yeah. Yeah, yeah, so they I want to I need to give them a chance to be because some people are on fixed income. It’s when people watch these Facebook live videos, I get the I get feedback that it feels like what Mr. Rogers got on public television. It feels like what Bob Ross and The Joy of Painting these Public Television TV shows that’s our social media now people say your videos are theraputic. I have PTSD in this has helped me through so many dark times, you know, I poured my heart and soul into these things for two hours straight.

I’m throwing Pottery. So if they can’t afford a mug for more than $30, I’m trying I need to meet them where they’re at because that’s the bulk of the people to so I try to understand try to see that the frustration is largely coming from they want to be a true fan and the vast majority of people can’t afford that which is why which is why I added a lot more ways to you know, we have a subscription model now for five dollars and nine dollars a month and I’m also adding some lower end products

Steve: interesting. What do you what do you get for that subscription?

Joel: So there’s there’s a I think just over 400 people now on patreon who are supporting us at $5 a month, nine dollars a month, and $24 a month.

Steve: Do you put out bonus content for these folks?

Joel: it started that way and it’s evolved into basically a pottery Option so at $24 a month, they get a moon mug that’s worth $500. And I also send them a cosmic mug and a cup and an educational brochure pack and they do get bonus content. So

Steve: so that sounds like a great deal.

Joel: Yeah, so that’s that’s what subscription models are tough. Right? So yeah, that’s it needed to be. So you know.

Steve: so you’re limited obviously by the number of pieces that you can make in any given month and so these subscription Has that you’re talking about wouldn’t it be and I guess maybe money isn’t the primary motivation for everything but wouldn’t it be more economical or useful for your time to just produce the higher end mugs and maybe a smaller quantity of the loan ones. It seems like you are at $25 a month and you’re giving away a $500 mug. It seems like a huge bargain. Right?

Joel: Well, yeah, it takes them a year to get that so they have to stay committed. So there’s a lot of trust on them to every month

Steve: I see.

Joel: Until they get that mug stay subscribed.

Steve: Got it.

Joel: But also, you know one of the best feelings in the world is when you raise prices on your art and someone believes you and they buy it. One of the worst feelings of world in the world is when you raise prices and you hear crickets and nobody buys it and they’re supportive and so it’s not like it always works. I have I am I mean I have hundreds of thousands of dollars of retail value Potter three-foot jars. I have hundreds of pieces in storage, platters, wall platters jars that don’t sell so it’s important to meet your fans where they are and it’s also why like I said, I’m building a business relationship with Neil deGrasse Tyson because he lives in New York City.

He has his own TV show in National Geographic and New York City’s the art capital of the world. So right now, I’m he gave me some homework to find a gallery to come see the art that he has so we are exploring that high-end that high-end, Ultra high-end Ceramics, and but I’m also planning to travel to China to explore having some products made their.

Steve: let’s talk about that. How would that work? If people are buying these pots because of you then how would this whole Outsourcing to China? It just seems like it would be a huge negative.

Joel: Totally. Yeah. I really I wanted I want to come on this podcast to get your opinion on that Steve because that was the credit. That was the overwhelming feedback. I got when I had some pieces designed and launched them to our fans it started off really negative, but Is a reason that porcelain Ceramics are called Fine China, the Chinese have been doing it for two thousand years and the specific type of pottery I make this black Pottery that’s inspired by outer space. The cosmic mugs. That is a Chinese glaze from about a thousand years ago the Song Dynasty.

So it might not be the best idea to have everything every product you’re doing made in China but something if I were to have these made in Italy made in Germany, The quality would be lower and that it’s the Chinese have they know porcelain. They’re, I think over 700 porcelain factories in China and I’m doing it because I believe that the quality will be highest and that we can figure out how to keep the price low the quality high and have deep respect for Humanity and the environment.

Steve: So for these ones that you are getting from China, do you put your own personal spin on it somehow?

Joel: Well, I’m acting as a designer. So I’m learning I’ve been doing this for less than a year. Next week 400 mugs are coming, so we’ve ordered multiple batches and they’ve all sold out at about 36 dollars each

Steve: Nice.

Joel: Every one. So I’m slowly scaling up. And yeah, it’s a glaze that it’s a shape based on my mug, but it feels it feels remarkably different. You said earlier that you know, everyone is unique because my hand touches it. These ones are all the same the shape is all identical because they’re made with molds. They’re made with porcelain poured into molds their factory made but it’s funny because who works in factories.

I mean, it’s still people is still hundreds of people who are who are handling these pots and there are little smudges. The glaze is remarkably unique. So we developed a glaze that is so complicated that every one of the Chinese mugs is also an individual unique mug because of the glaze not the shape. Does that make sense?

Steve: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I guess the model that you’re taking is a model that a whole bunch of I guess clothing makers and that sort of thing have taken also, right. They have their own original pieces that they sell for a lot and then they also have you know, mass-produced pieces that they sell at a much cheaper price. I guess the only thing to get over like it would be different is if you had like a team of apprentices who studied under you and we’re producing these pots that I feel like that would be a little bit more meaningful from a customer standpoint. But if what you’re doing is working then that is a way to scale your business.

Joel: Yeah, we were hiring in a month or two. We plan to hire our second full-time employee. My wife and I are the only two full-time employees now, but we could use some help and we’re considering whether it’s going to be an apprenticeship model or something more like, there’s this great book called The e-myth Revisited and Talk about oddly enough. They talk about McDonald’s in that book and it was a it was hard for me to read it first. But I’ve since read at a few different times and it’s like well, yeah, why is why is McDonald’s been around for 50 years and why can any high school kid figure that out.

So we might hire a prentices we might hire just some local workers and some friends high school kids. Yeah, we’re navigating that but I see what you’re saying in terms of the meaningful purchase. I believe I could probably make make I make about three to four thousand pots a year. I can probably push that up to five or six thousand with a little bit of help.

Steve: Yeah, definitely and your wife sounds really understanding as well. So she doesn’t she works full-time in your Pottery business?

Joel: Yeah. She has a graduate degree as a Montessori school teacher and she had she was just finishing that up when we started dating, but she originally studied art we both spent four years of our college education studying art. That’s what we’re passionate about. So when business started to take off and we finally passed that six-figure Mark and then almost doubled our goal and businesses continue to grow. I just I knew I needed to hire so we try to spend every day doing what we want to do making art. A lot of what we do is still the tedious handcraft that we’re plan to hire some help for but her craft is actually making paper by hands not Pottery by trade. So we’ve sold a lot of her paper products now to our fans.

Steve: Interesting. Wow, that’s cool. Joel like I get a lot of people who are artists and they come to me whether and asked me like how do they start an eCommerce store and do essentially what you’ve done. What would be your best advice to these folks?

Joel: Well the art always comes first.

Steve: Okay

Joel: You always have to make the art first and Aesthetics and why you’re making your art and the objects you’re making that’s always most important, but if you can’t figure out the financial and the economics of it then it’s like fuel for a rocket ship. Okay. This isn’t just the this isn’t just the nihilistic pursuit of Rocket Fuel. Okay, but you’re not going to get off the launch pad without it. Like what we want to do is explore, you launch a rocket to go explore because you want to explore what’s out what’s in the far beyond that’s what business is. That’s what a venture is when you’re starting a business.

But Rocket Fuel is essential and money is rocket fuel. And most artists we you know, we all we all assumed that people want to in like they know like what we make but you need to make something people want you to start with a humble mindset that nobody cares, you saw when I was struggling to sell $25 mugs and they would just sit there is no nobody cares. You need to start with a humble mindset and it’s your responsibility to educate and attract people to your story of why what you’re making matters. And if people aren’t attracted to it, then maybe you need to make something else.

Steve: You know, it’s funny. Joel is when you before we actually spoke, I remember looking at your mugs and I was like, okay great. These are nice mugs. I hadn’t seen one. I only saw it on your website, but it was after we had our first Skype chat and just talking to you like your products instantly became like thousands of times more attractive and for you to you know, I what I was thinking you were going to say was put yourself out there and start creating videos. And like get built a following get people attracted to your personality. And then anything that you’ll make will eventually sell. Do you feel that way?

Joel: I feel like that’s a trap. I feel like social media and Trends push us to think that’s most important. But in reality the only type of success and Prestige and money that come are the type that are slow and built over long long periods of time. So I understand that Fame and putting yourself out there that is really important, but that just that was something that not only came natural to me. I actually have a big problem with ego. I tend to just put myself out way too much when I when and when I decided to you know what I’m just gonna let the art speak. I’m going to shut my mouth. I’m going to focus on the Arts.

I suppress my ego as much as I could. I still talk, I love to talk so I still end up talking about it, but the objects themselves became truly remarkable the physical act of making them turned into a Guinness World Record

Steve: Hmm, that is so Interesting

Joel: I think that yes. Isn’t too much. Yeah, too many of us start with I’m afraid to put myself out there when the real problem is. I’m afraid to make something people want.

Steve: Interesting, were there any times when you are tempted to kind of sell out and just because you needed the money and you knew you could make more money by doing things a certain way that you wouldn’t necessarily be your style. Does that make sense?

Joel: Yeah, but I it does but it doesn’t. And what you mean by sell out, like what can you define that you mean by sell out? It’s so it’s tough for me because I this is a question I’ve gotten often from people like you people who are

Steve: I’m not an artist. So yeah

Joel: no no, but your I consider you one of my mentors Steve you were you seen so much my early career and my Pottery Professor. He’s kind of my Mr. Miyagi told me to whack taught me to wax on wax off. I use his pottery wheel. He asked me that once too and I’m not sure if there’s a clear answer to it because when you’re a business person your job is to I mean, 95% of my art enters the world through sales on the Internet. It’s shipped directly to people’s doorsteps, So when we having a low month and I need to lower prices on a $500 Moon mug and sell it for 200 at you know, Black Friday price sales, I do it.

And I’ve always noticed that people are happy to get the discount they understand that sales happen in short periods of times and I’ve just tried to take that take the free-market jungle for what it is that the business is going to tell you what it needs customers are going to tell you what they need and you have to meet them when they where they are if they can’t afford a 200 dollar coffee mug, then sometimes you’re going to have to lower your prices. You can raise your prices and you have to lower your prices sometimes and try to be honest and respectful throughout the entire process.

Steve: I guess I wasn’t talking in terms of pricing. So let’s say your audience wanted a certain type of mug, but that’s not the type of mug that reflects your style. Would you go ahead and make that mug if you need the money, you understand what I’m saying like the customers dictate might not necessarily be your art style.

Joel: Yeah, I see what you’re saying. So everybody wants a mug with their name on it. That’s I get asked that every single video, you know thousands of times so fortunately, I think I’ve creative enough variety Mountain mugs, Moon mugs this Nuka glaze. I have a iron Brown and a cobalt blue and there’s three different styles of moon mugs and a Neptune mug and a spiral Cosmic mug and a lunar I could go on and on so because so I when I asked I answered that question to them with variety, there’s such a variety of a body of work a catalog that I make that I say no to I can say no to a hundred percent of the commission request that come in because I’ve created a more profitable catalog that people like more than some tacky mug with their name carved in the side that they want to pay $20 for.

Steve: Okay.

Joel: Does that make sense?

Steve: Yeah, it does. Yeah. So you mentioned focusing on your art and making the art stand out as a reason to buy it. But even if your artist Superior, it’s not no one’s going to buy it unless they know it’s around right? So it seems like you also need to always put yourself out there in addition to, you know perfecting your art form, right?

Joel: Oh definitely.

Steve: So for someone just starting out. Would you say that building that audience first is what will make the whole art selling experience a lot easier or would you perfect the art and then build the audience?

Joel: Well, I guess I just like to share as much as I can about what I did and what I did was perfect the art first.

Steve: Okay.

Joel: So it was through high school that I made about a hundred pots and then through college I spent four years and I don’t want to say I didn’t sell anything. Because I sold about $5,000 worth of pottery during college at the bus stop. So I was learning how to make things people want and I was putting myself out there performing Pottery demonstrations. I’m so I was doing both but I think if you if you focus too much on creating contents and putting yourself out there. You end up just like everyone else as opposed to with where’s your magic?

What’s special about you and if it is the art if you can make art that’s truly remarkable that I did that to me that feels more powerful in my gut and I feel like if you’re just doing things for clicks for likes for metrics before you perfect something that’s worthy of those clicks and like some metrics then I just didn’t do that. Like I’m not Gary Vee, you know

Steve: Yeah of course.

Joel: I can only I can only talk so much before I have to let the art speak for me

Steve: Right. Okay, cool, Joel. We’ve been chatting for quite a while and I wanted everyone out there listening to get a chance to see your works. So where can people find you, where can they buy your pottery?

Joel: Yeah. Thank you. So, my name is Joel Cherrico and cherricopottery.com. Cherrico is C H E R R I C O —- and if you Google that all kinds of stuff will show up. I make the moon mugs in the cosmic mugs that will probably show up in Google and on Facebook. The best way to watch is really on Facebook because I really like I let you into my studio and we just hang out while I throw Pottery. But yeah, we do we do everything we can to spread the word. We have the mailing list where we give away free Pottery every single month the cosmic mug, cosmicmugs.com is what our bestseller is. It’s what people seem to gravitate towards most. Just so we built a whole website just devoted to that.

Steve: What was the rationale for that?

Joel: You know, it’s funny all these people that I’ve connected with. I’m actually a client of Ryan Holiday and all that means is we had a phone call after I read so many of his books and wrote a blog post about how his work inspired me and we talked for an hour about how to make this profitable because I was really struggling it was post Kickstarter. So there was supposed to Guinness World Records we had evidence that there was something real but I was struggling with sales, online sales and he said why don’t you build Cosmicmugs.com and figure out what does it cost to sell a cosmic mug with a Facebook ad is it $5.00? Is it $10?

Like wouldn’t that just like accomplish all these things you want to do anyway, if you just built a real business instead of chased Fame and New York City and all these things like that stuff can come later. But why don’t you just build a real business in the meantime, so it was a It was hundreds of hours of work through our websites, hiring student workers to help Consulting with some of the best in the world and trial and error lots and lots of trial and error of how to properly serve people with a coffee mug shipping it to their doorstep that they can purchase from anywhere on the planet.

Steve: Why not create a dedicated landing page on Cherrico Pottery?

Joel: So I did a landing page before the kickstarter to collect email addresses, but Right now we’re more focused on sustainable monthly Revenue. So cosmic mugs are available every day. And there are some email signup tools.

Steve: Oh I see. Cool

Joel: We use Bigcommerce still so if people aren’t ready to buy $100 coffee mug, we say go sign up for e-mail newsletter list and you might get a chance you can we give them away every month. So we’ll announce a giveaway and then we can email market. So we send we can email Market to people every month we and if a certain style like a $50 mug is sold out we can just email them and let them know that the less expensive ones are available. So we use Sumo email signup tools and all three of our websites. They all kind of look like one website, but there are three different websites two Big Commerce websites, one WordPress website where two out of the three people can actually purchase through Bigcommerce. And then one is a Blog all of them have email signups. So I didn’t see the need for a landing page now that we have the email signups.

Steve: Oh, I meant instead of starting Cosmic Pottery or Cosmicmugs.com and just use CherricoPottery.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. It was a hassle to build a second and website, right? That was I’m still trying to understand that strategy myself, but The Branding has raised sales.

Steve: Okay. Yeah, I can imagine if you want higher rank for Cosmic mugs, which is your thing. That would probably be the best way to have like a focus marketing effort if that’s your best seller. Yeah.

Joel: So I know you drove home early on the importance of backlinks the importance of showing up in Google and I still don’t completely understand that but what I do understand is that when you focus whether it’s on marketing or on products or on building traffic that focus is extremely powerful and the cosmic mug is about focusing all of this story into one coffee mug.

Steve: Cool.

Joel: And that’s worked.

Steve: Where can people find you on patreon. And what do you offer on patreon?

Joel: Yeah, everything whether it’s Instagram, patreon all that is CherricoPottery. Patreon, we give you the live video schedule so many People ask when they see me making pottery. They’re like, oh I want to learn to do that. So they asked you to teach classes. Do you let us visit all these things. So I created an educational brochure pack. It’s a bunch of different Flyers essentially, but I catered each one to something specific to the pottery process. So if they join it’s five dollars a month is our lowest tier on patreon and we mail it out right away. So we send it out with a piece of Siena’s paper art. Actually. It’s a lot easier to ship paper than Pottery. Right?

Steve: That’s cool. Yeah

Joel: So, patreon, Chericco Pottery and then at nine dollars a month we give them a discounted deal on the cosmic mug and higher than that’s the moon mug and yeah it’s been growing every month it’s relatively new I think it’s a coming up on the two-year Mark

Steve: Cool awesome, awesome I just wanted to give the audience every possible way to follow you and support you.

Joel: Yeah I appreciate that man you’ve been a big help and I’m really happy that we could connect again it’s been a while.

Steve: It has been a while and I’m really happy that you’re doing so well and it just makes me really just makes me really happy, really.

Joel: Cheers man, well you’ll have to experience the new art so be sure to send me your address when this is done I’d like to mail a

Steve: No, I’ll buy one dude yeah I’ll buy one.

Joel: You can you promise me you’ll buy one but right now we’ll just pretend you want to give away so I like to mail you the first one

Steve: ha ha

Joel: You can give away to your fans or something or you could buy a second one at some point but I appreciate you, your believer early on and you know that’s what an artist needs when they’re starting out.

Steve: Cool, well I appreciate it Joel and thanks a lot for coming on the show.

Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now, for everyone out there who does not believe that artists can thrive in e-commerce. Joel is living proof that it’s possible. He charges over $500 a piece for his works of art. For more information about this episode. Go to mywifequitherjob.com/episode309.

And once again, I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode, Klaviyo is my email marketing platform of choice for e-commerce Merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned cart sequence, a post purchase flow or win back campaign. Basically, all these sequences that will make you money on autopilot. So head on over to mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo and try it for free. Once again, that’s mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo

I also want to thank PostScript.io which is my SMS marketing platform of choice for e-commerce with a few clicks of a button. You can easily segment and send targeted text messages to your client base. SMS is the next big own marketing platform and you can sign up for free over at PostScript.io/Steve. That’s Postscript.io/Steve.

Now I talked about how I use these tools in my blog and if you’re interested in starting your own e-commerce store head on over to mywifequitherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini-course just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com

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308: Moody Nashawaty On How To Make Facebook Ad Creatives That Convert

308: How To Create Facebook Ad Creatives That Convert With Moody Nashawaty

Today I’m happy to have Moody Nashawaty on the show. Moody is someone who helped me with my Facebook ads for my ecommerce store a while back.

He is the chief strategy officer for MuteSix.com which is a firm that specializes in customer acquisition. They do Facebook ads, Google ads, email marketing, you name it. And they recently sold their company for a large sum of money.

Moody is an advertising master and today he’s going to teach us how to create ads that convert for physical products.

What You’ll Learn

  • The components of a high converting creative
  • Moody’s process for effective ads
  • How to sell boring products with Facebook ads
  • The types of ad creatives that work

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
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EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
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Transcript

Steve: You’re listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and delve deeply into the strategies, they use to grow their businesses. Now today, I have my friend Moody Nashawaty on the show and Moody is the chief strategy officer for MuteSix.com one of the top online advertising agencies in the world. And in this episode we’re going to dig deep into how to create compelling ads for selling physical products online.

But before we begin, I want to give a quick shout-out to Klaviyo who is a sponsor of the show now, it’s safe to say that most of us have been I’m doing a lot more online shopping lately. If you’re an e-commerce brand, that means you might be seeing more first time customers. But once they made that first purchase, how do you keep them coming back? That’s what Klaviyo is for. Klaviyo is the ultimate email and SMS marketing platform for e-commerce Brands and they give you the tools to build your contact list. Send memorable emails automate key messages and more, way way more. And that’s why more than 30,000 e-commerce Brands like Chubbies, Brooklyn and living proof use Klaviyo to build a following. Strong customer relationships mean more repeat sales enthusiastic word of mouth and less depending on third-party ads. So whether you’re launching a new business or taking your brand to the next level Klaviyo can help you get growing faster and it’s free to get started. So visit Klaviyo.com/mywife to create your free account. That’s KLAVIYO.com/mywife. Now on to the show.

Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle. So you can spend more time with your family and focus on doing the things that you love. Here’s your host Steve Chou.

Steve: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. Today, I’m happy to have Moody Nashawaty on the show. Now Moody is actually someone who helped me with my Facebook ads for my e-commerce store a while back. He is the chief strategy officer for MuteSix.com, which is a firm that specializes in customer acquisition. They do Facebook ads, Google ads, email marketing you name it and they recently sold their company for a large sum of money. Now, I recently met Moody for the first time in person in my buddy Nick Shackleford’s live event down in LA. And what’s funny is that I didn’t know the guy was famous until random people at Nick’s events certain randomly shaking hands with the guy and patting him on the back

Anyway, Moody is a master of AD creatives. So today we are going to talk about how to create ads that convert for selling physical products online. And with that, welcome to show Moody. How you doing today, man?

Moody: Hey Steve, glad to be on the show.

Steve: Honor to have such a famous person in the ad space on the show.

Moody: I didn’t I didn’t know I was famous either until I was walking around that event and people like hey, I know you are and I’m like what so I don’t know. Maybe this is my like launch party and it

Steve: Maybe it is maybe it is. You’re gonna you’re gonna be much more famous after this podcast. Let me tell you so. So give us the quick background story. Tell us how you got started with just Facebook ads in general and how did you hook up with Steve at MuteSix.

Moody: Yeah. It’s so funny. You know, it’s Steve. I actually met him in a Facebook group. He was looking for media buyers about four years ago in the big Facebook media buyers group the ad buys group run by Tim Bird and I just replied to his post and then we chatted. We’re both in LA and we got lunch, but my experience with Facebook ads got started a lot earlier than that. I started running ads on Facebook in probably 2011-2012 doing a lot of really large light campaigns for the big Brands. This is before you had any sort of like link ads. And in the first type of Link add you actually had was in the right hand rail, do remember that?

Steve: Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Moody: Yeah. So we’re doing light campaigns for you know, big big Brands like Walmart and Tropicana and all sorts of things and we’re you know, we’re spending millions of dollars generating likes for an agency called Shift which then turned got bought out by brand networks. And so, you know, it started all right there for me, you know, and it quickly turned into like okay like this Okay, and this is interesting and you know selling likes is a fun thing, but you know, I quickly wanted to learn how do you actually make businesses scale using Facebook ads and specifically the ability to target so efficiently and in the platform.

So I found Steve actually I spent a little bit more time at a more of a PR Agency and then I found Steve in 2015 or so and then you know, it was it was You know building MuteSix since that.

Steve: All right, Yeah, so cool. So you met up with mutesix and you you helped Steve basically grow that company to where it is today, right?

Moody: Yeah. So I joined in as number 9 today. We’re about 210 people. What we wanted to do is we just wanted to help businesses scale. So we’ve got about I think three almost 300 Shopify stores that we help and consult and we’re an agency right? So we’re helping these brands. Mostly with paid media a lot of its Facebook do other things we do Google, YouTube little bit of Amazon got a whole email team and then we’ve got a whole creative armed designed just to build creative that convert for our different a department. So.

Steve: You guys specialize in physical products, right?

Moody: Yeah.

Steve: Okay

Moody: Hundred percent e-commerce.

Steve: So let me ask you this. I’m sure you get a lot of people applying for your agency do tend to turn away people who have just kind of Boring mundane products or do you just kind of make it work?

Moody: Yeah, you know if it’s e-commerce, you know, there’s there’s a couple of things that we look for. We’re not turning around turning away everybody where you know, we look for potential, you know, there’s a enough AOV if there’s you know something that’s you know, there’s some sort of charm or spark to the to the product then you know, we want to do it, we don’t like Commodities like something that you just tend to buy on Amazon tends to not work specially if it’s like a lower price point.

Steve: Okay.

Moody: But if it’s you know It’s a well branded product or it has the potential to be or if it’s a highly demonstratable product. Those are things that you know, you can get in front of people, you know, ads some salesmanship in a creative and actually make work.

Steve: So what is AOV size, what is AOV need to be typically to make things work?

Moody: For so if it’s gotten AOV of at least 30, 40 bucks

Steve: Okay

Moody: You know, that’s the bare minimum and then if it’s like, you know, if it’s something that has like maybe a lower AOV but has an LTV. So lifetime value of actually being a lot larger than that’s not a that’s not a big Point. That’s that’s something that we look at too. Because I mean if you can really whoever wins in this game is the person who can spend the most money to acquire user, right? So if the LTV is, you know through the roof or forever lasting then that person can spend, you know, business can spend as much money as they want to acquire a customer.

Steve: Right, and then in terms of margins, are there any guidelines that you have also as well?

Moody: Yeah, I mean it depends, you know, if you’re doing, you’ve got a $40 product or margin should be around 10 to 12 to 15 bucks max. But otherwise, you should be pricing your you know, you should really be pricing higher.

Steve: Okay

Moody: So we do work on pricing too like there’s some there’s times where we get brands that come in the door and we’re like hey like your pricing too high or pricing too low or no, how can we how can we work out the product economics to be more feasible for what we’re trying to do here.

Steve: Okay. So Moody, what I was hoping to do today is kind of get a framework from you and kind of like your process for coming up with creatives that convert for a typical physical product. I mean we can use one of the examples that you’ve already used in the past, but I was just hoping you could walk us through the process. So first off, where do you begin when it comes to the creative which arguably is the most important part of the ad, right?

Moody: Right. I mean it’s so even Facebook’s come out and said that in the algorithm the thing that matters the most is the creative and it’s about 60% of the essentially the efficiency of where you’re going to get your CPA down and actually get performance. So for us, you know, we like to so when it comes to creative the biggest factor in all of this starts with the hook and you know, I mean look at the end of the day And we measure the hook in the how effective It Is by basically taking three second View and dividing it by impression and that’s basically our hook through rate or you can call thumb stop rate.

And that’s basically going to tell you how many people are stopping on your ad as soon as they get to it in the news feed. And what that does is if you’ve got a hook a basically a thumbs stop rate of thirty percent or higher then that’s effectively good and you’re getting people to actually consume your content for at least three seconds.

Steve: So you mentioned three seconds. So that implies it’s a video creative. Do you recommend starting with video creatives or do images work as well?

Moody: Yeah, I guess images and video, you know, we have been, videos’ just something that I think every brand absolutely needs to have anyone running ads needs to have video. You can get a we can get very far with static. You can’t get this type of scale you can get with video just because basically you’re bringing the salesmanship into the news feed right? You’re actually Allowing people to absorbency without having to jump onto your site right there in a familiar territory of the Native platform, whether that’s Facebook Instagram or any of these other social platforms.

So video is a place where people can really get to understand who you guys are as a brand without having to you know, dive deeper into your brand and into unfamiliar territory, which is your website and whatever that works out, right?

Steve: So just to kind of clarify what you just said about the thumb stop rate. So you’re looking at the number of Impressions and then you’re looking for the number of 3-second video views and you divide the two and you’re trying to get 30%?

Moody: Exactly.

Steve: Okay. And so that’s your guideline for a good high quality creative?

Moody: Hook is number one and then you know, if we were to back up again and just talk like fundamentals, you’ve gotta start with understanding, you know, what are the unique selling propositions of your of your brand and you know, we’d spend a lot of the time actually doing research and looking at competitors and looking at we’ve got we basically have a framework of what ads what convert what they look like. We got a bunch of templates and frameworks, things we apply to each brand that comes to the door that tend to work. But you know, if I were going to start this from scratch, I’d back up I’d say, okay, like what is my brand, you know and we can maybe come up with an example, you know, their gun is one of our brands that

Steve: What would you say is like the most mundane product you’ve ever had to write creative for like there again is kind of unique right?

Moody: It’s it wasn’t always unique. I mean, I think we got it to this point, but but I think that’s fair. Let’s see. I mean we could I mean Thinoptics is an interesting one.

Steve: Okay. Yeah, let’s go with that one

Moody: only because you brought it up earlier.

Steve: Yeah

Moody: That’s on the top of my mind.

Steve: But like do you have you ever sold like sheets or hats or articles of clothing?

Moody: Yeah, we’ve done so we do a lot. We do a lot of so there’s two categories right? There’s it’s either like a Lifestyle brand of some sort or Brand of commodity or its demonstratable products kind of like Thinoptics, Awaord or.

Steve: Let’s do a brandable commodity actually

Moody: Yeah, so like we do apparel, shoes, you know, you know shirts, hoodies, jackets, whatever you name it swimwear, we get we have a lot of those and so like if we were going to do like a like a brand-new commodity, let’s say like an apparel brand, you know, once specifically that comes to mind is butter cloth and they were on Shark Tank recently. They have these really cool dress shirts where they’re made out of long fiber cotton, which is like similar cotton you might see in like Egyptian sheets and you know, so with them it’s interesting because if you guys look at the if you look at you, look at some of the ads were running now a lot of it has to do with their you know in this is a little bit unfair because they’re on Shark Tank, but it’s actually a lot of their actual video from Shark Tank.

You know now we have Robert Herjavec in the mix, but it didn’t start out that way they came to us. They had zero dollars, name fact wanted a partner that could be much more than just Marketing agency. They wanted a website built, you know, they wanted full, you know, basically full hands on everything digital and the Daniel Tran is like The Mastermind behind butter cloth the actual piece of clothing. I mean, he’s got a history of actually making the goods right like he used to work for Mattel making Barbie dresses who worked for affliction making shirts and jackets. He was the expert at making amazing. That’s a get shirt. It’s now because this is what he wanted to do. And he took that and he’s like I know nothing about digital.

I know nothing about Shopify or any at, you know, running e-commerce site and he came to us literally with a prototype and put it on our table and said this is what I have. What can you guys do and we’re like, okay like how much does it cost? Well cost x amount to make shirt we’re selling it for a hundred and ten probably getting four times five times on margins there. And then essentially, what’s we looked at it and you’re like, okay, like how do we sell this online? How do we sell this with Facebook ads? It’s a really nice dress shirt. It’s got a couple really good qualities.

First of all, it’s a hundred percent cotton and really good cotton. It’s demonstratable to this sense that it’s like stretchy has a really nice space, breathable, you know, if you looked at the some of the shirts, they’ve got really nice designs on them. The collars are certain design and essentially like, you know, we didn’t we didn’t know where to Start other than to kind of lean into the USPs. It’s like okay like it people what do people want on a dress shirts. They want it to fit right a hundred percent. They want it to look good. So like that. Those are two things that use absolutely have to have they don’t want it to wrinkle. They want it to feel and feel like it’s high quality, you know in our case here like the softness comfortability ability the ability for it to be active.

The fact that it doesn’t necessarily like stretch out over time. I’m if you wear it a few times, right, you know, potentially you’d also want to be able to wash it without having to take it to the dry cleaner cleaning. So you want a little bit of durability and these are all factors that we honed in on when it came to selling the shirt. Now, We got a little bit lucky Metta World Peace walked into. Like this is just random, but he just comes into our door 2017. It was like right before Black Friday like a week before Black Friday and He’s got a brand called the panda’s friend, which is just sell shirts with pandas on them and he’s really cool dude. And actually, you know, off-topic we spent like an hour like going through and teaching him Google analytics one day because he’s absolutely wants to learn everything.

Like I don’t know if you know like if you if you haven’t spent a little time looking at what Metta World Peace is doing now, it’s actually fascinating building apps. He’s doing all these things and charity. It’s

Steve: I had no idea. Okay.

Moody: It’s amazing. We can spend an hour talking just about that. We won’t, he walk through a door a week before Black Friday and he’s like hey, I’ve got this brand with you guys work when you guys do it that like I can’t do anything. It’s literally a week before Black Friday. You came to me a month ago. Like I can’t ramp up you this fast, but I do have this brand butter cloth with they just launched a few weeks ago. And you know, you just have to put the shirt on cause it’s amazing. So I literally threw a shirt at him and never met him once before in my life and I was like dude try this on and he’s looking at me like what are you doing? Okay, he takes off his shirt. He puts the butter cloth shirt on I grab my phone I recorded and like what do you think? He’s like, wow, it’s amazing. It’s breathable. It’s comfortable it fits I can stretch in it.

Look at like it’s all of it all of these things and I took the video and I sent it off to the butter cloth team and they just fell in love. They’ve been like his fans for a long time. You know, there really is some

Steve: But that doesn’t sound fair Moody. I mean you’re getting a celebrity

Moody: I know so

Steve: I mean you have another example so we can take that example, but so you all the value props you just mentioned. What was the hook the value proposition is just the hook right?

Moody: Right. So here’s here’s what we figured out with men’s shirts. Is that a lot of there’s a lot of men out there who actually get their clothes or their shopping is done by the ladies in their life. So their girlfriends, their wives, you know, something we lean on in our advertising from butter cloth is we are, you know, probably 30 40 percent female its women who are buying for their men, but the hooks for butter cloth are so it’s one is I think in the terms of priority of like what matters for this brand fit and look is really important. So getting just, you know, going out and getting really good lifestyle shots of butter cloth, even like really Crisp and Studio shots. You’ll see just carousels in this is static, right?

This isn’t even that much video but static images of really good looking people wearing shirts the good fit so, you know people can start and you know, one of the key things about, you know selling shirts to men is they know they never want to see their faces are the only they don’t want to see the faces of the models. They just want to see the shirts. So your data cut off heads office. Yeah. I didn’t know if you knew that but

Steve: I did not how did you figure that out? Just testing?

Moody: it’s a it’s a key learning you’ll start to see it now that you know it if you look at almost every single male e-commerce brand that sells apparel. There’s no you’ll never see faces of models. If you do it’s usually like lifestyle stuff or just people looking away but it’s never like they’re up the camera as much especially in the like when you’re on product pages and you’re on you know, when you’re when you’re looking through actual actual like product shots of images.

Steve: Mmm-hmm. if it’s not true for women’s clothing though.

Moody: No, I think it’s mixed. It’s a mixed bag with women.

Steve: Okay, sorry. Okay, so the hook. Is just the fit.

Moody: So starting with fit that combination of things it’s definitely fit and look like people have to like what they’re buying like obviously but then what we did is we tested a lot of video of like people stretching and like moving in Mobility. So you get to see a lot of that sort of Hook was like, hey, it’s the most comfortable shirt ever like never met a shirt like this that kind of thing and we were just showing people moving. You know actually, you know this kind of zooming in on the stretch happening and then we call out a lot of the details like, you know, the really cool and detailed collars and you know, even like the risk collars that that kind of thing.

So you get a lot of quick movement there. We also you know kind of approach it from a Persona types of like now we have a lot of ads running to people who travel like. Hey, like what if you could travel In this shirt, it’s so comfortable. It’s like the ones that you need while you travel, you know, we do a lot of promotional like so like Valentine’s Day was really big for us just the gift that you know, your husband will never forget that kind of thing. Now, we’ve got a lot of like again footage of I guess a couple celebrities that we rotate into the mix. But yeah, that’s kind of

Steve: So when you’re targeting then are you just targeting females then with these ads?

Moody: With that, let’s specifically the gifting. Yes.

Steve: Okay.

Moody: Yeah tends to be specifically for that but not for everything else for everything else. It’s mixed. It’s probably 50/50.

Steve: So when you’re deciding on the audience for these, what do you have any guidelines there? So it depends where you are, right? There’s like different phases that you might go through as a brand and you’re targeting like if you’re just getting started you’re trying to find who your buyer is and trying to you know, you just test a lot of different audiences that make sense to your brand. I mean you try to get a little bit more Niche with your and narrow with your range of people you might Target, you know, bucket sizes of one to two million as you get into scale, you know, Facebook the Facebook algorithm is smarter than And we can never be when it comes to audience testing.

So we’re we actually move into more broad territory. If we’ve got the data for look-alikes. We use all of it, you know, we can spend there’s 20 different ways. You can use look-alikes effectively, you know, and then and then yes, we move a little bit more broad a little more open specially with more viral like videos like longer form 30 seconds or so, like there’s like, you know a hook and then education behind it. Then we’re going we’re trying to make something that can get a lot of shares attention. It’s things like that. You know, it’s interesting you actually when you create viral videos like videos that scale that are more appealing to just the general public. I mean back in the day when we first get started we call them Business Insider videos, just like, you know stories on the text on screen or generally around the product.

There is some there’s two things interesting that happened one is you get a lower CPM because you’re getting a lot of comments engagements, shares that kind of thing and then the second thing that happens is all of the traffic of like people tagging their partner people tagging their friends or shares and things like that all of the all the purchases that happen because of that don’t actually get tracked as paid media. They’re actually coming in as organic because you know, like when I share it to you and you click on it, you actually don’t see an ad you see a viral video that I tag you and that’s basically digital word of mouth. That’s happening between me and you, right?

Steve: Okay, yeah

Moody: And if you go and you convert off that that actually looks like Facebook organic. It doesn’t it doesn’t actually show up in your ads manager.

Steve: I see. So when you look at your stats, you got to look at the ads as well as the organic when you’re taking on this new account for return on ad spend?

Moody: right

Steve: Okay, so it sounds like you guys always go the viral video route?

Moody: It’s definitely something like it when it comes to making something like really blow up quickly. That’s the best route to do it. You know, another example is tap shoes. Are you familiar with tap shoes at all?

Steve: I’m not actually

Moody: Tap shoes make these amazing durable boots. They retail for about 250 bucks, you know, and they swear they’re worth five or six hundred and you know, because they’re basically Factory did indeed a see they can cut out the middleman and bring the price down to 250. They’re amazingly durable. They’re waterproof. They look incredible and you’ll see in the creative elements. It’s less about I mean they do talk about features and you know water resistant so they like splash water on there and Jumping in puddles that kind of thing but really people buy the boots because they just look so clean and beautiful and amazing. And so you’ll see a lot of their ads are focused around that where the boots are the center of the frame and you’ve got people walking you’ve got like different ways pants could fall on the boot.

I think a lot of people, you know struggle with like how do you style your pants with a with potential boots if you’re like in which what kind of pants do you wear with boots? You wear it in you wear it out that kind of thing they do they make it look effortless that any anything you wearing with that specific boot. It just looks so clean and so good and the other thing is they focus on people walking showing movement like and you just it’s interesting. It’s like you’re looking at this boot and you’re like, well, I just like have to have it. They really tap into that. I have to have this feeling that everyone has within them.

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So going back to your thumb stopping so you have one of these videos that you’re sending out to top a funnel and you’re looking for this thumb. Stop rate of 30% given that you meet that requirement. What would you expect to be a good return on ad spend on a top of funnel ad with one of these videos?

Moody: So it really depends on margins for these for these higher price point products like but of course there’s a insurance for a hundred and twenty bucks right on top is selling boots for 250. You know, you you can get away with a higher role as target like 4/5 x because you know, there’s a lot more, you know, you don’t have to you don’t have to there’s a lot more marketing enough to spend as much to get there the like lower targets like, you know, I think It depends like I think it’s a lot of the times like the way but Our Brands think about it especially brands are going for growth and going, you know going to become as big as possible as fast as possible.

They’re willing to spend as much to break even on the first sale knowing that potentially, you know, they can win customers especially if I mean most of the Brand’s we work with have an LTV of sorts or, you know have customers coming back. So they’re just trying to win customers and so they’re looking What their role as targets like basically break even and a lot of a lot of our brands are the back could be two and a half that could be 3x and so they can just they can funnel this Bond acquire as much customers as possible when on the second and third purchase and basically, you know show themselves as a as a highly fast-growing successful brand

Steve: In the case of that shirt. It sounded like they only had a single product though, right? So I would imagine the lifetime value of that. Would be less than the shoe company which probably sells a bunch of accessories. I would imagine right?

Moody: Well, so the thing about when you find a new win the male Market because heart men are fickle like we choose what we like and then we never we never switch off what we like women are a lot easier in the sense that they’d choose, the they’ll go and they’ll experiment and we’ll try different brands. Men and in the case, if you if you win over I’ve got people who bought an 18 shirts like they’ve come back. At 18 times.

Steve: Wow, okay.

Moody: You know the brand has been around for two and a half years and there’s people like literally there’s hundreds of people who bought three four five times or more. It’s so like, you know, the trick is once you have you know, once you get once you basically need to roll out, especially with apparel you need to be rolling out new Styles, you know, and as much as you can as possible, right so like like right now like, it’s March 5th. We’re going to be rolling into spring collections here in the next couple weeks and you’ll see that with most apparel Brands like this they’re going into spring. I mean, it’s not exactly cold or warm outside yet. But you know people start buying for spring here.

You know about second or third weekend of March April, you know, April May June are going to be big and then it slows down and tell you about somewhere in August and September of people are like, oh it’s going to get cold soon and so like they would usually would have bought everything they bought in for the season.

Steve: Can I get an idea of how much it costs to produce a video that you were just describing earlier?

Moody: So it’s interesting like the tap shoes ones. It’s just one cameraman and you know, a lot of different varieties of boots it all in one shot on a model with different pads. So like it doesn’t require a lot if you you know, if you really study like a lot of how these videos look, I mean if anyone can go to tap shoes, right like Taft and look at the ads that the running in their ads library and you’ll see like a lot of good examples of these but essentially like it doesn’t require so you got you gotta get a cameraman could you know, I think you know, the freelance camera person in LA is pretty abundant like you can find them anywhere.

Although also, you know, there’s creators literally in every City now that are popping up learning me. Skills that’s thanks to the Internet. So, you know it you could get a cameraman for 150 200 bucks 300 bucks. You could also barter with like three product or whatever it good you have is and then, you know getting a model to to be part of this you’re looking at a hundred fifty to two hundred dollars and then an edit it’s from an editing perspective. It’s another to it could be about $200. I mean, these are like, you know, you can get these for lower but two or there hundred bucks, you can make a range of videos I’d say.

The thing is like you might want to try different hooks different text on screen. So you might want different iterations of that specific creative that you shot and so you could probably do a shoot day for three four hundred bucks with the cameraman and a model and then you can do a do a bunch of assets with an editor for a few days and that can be anywhere between three and five hundred bucks so you can maybe like at the least get a bunch of video assets like maybe four or five videos to run for a you know, maybe a thousand bucks.

Steve: Okay. Yeah, that doesn’t sound bad at all.

Moody: Yeah, that’s and that’s the Baseline like you can get you can get even lower. If you go do it yourself with an iPhone. Like there’s a lot of videos. We spend a lot of time actually doing a lot of UGC content user-generated content or we just run around the office, especially the brands like new and you know, you know, we just gotta do a lot of testing before we really can invest Will do will actually go shoot UGC content or will send product out to bunch of influencers or our friends and family and will literally shoot the content we think is right to convert and we’ll turn those into ads and so you can get it down even more.

I’ve got like a lot of our campaign managers like just for fun create their own ads for Brands sometimes and you know, that’s you know, that’s just them spending an hour shooting an ad maybe then drinking like a tea or supplement or you know, I don’t know. It’s like a lot of the times it’s use case right? It’s like how are you using the product if it’s apparel if it’s a little bit trickier. But if it’s like, you know things like we’ve got a lot of kitchen appliances or makeup or you know, skincare or supplements, you know, it’s like it’s literally just the action of like taking the product or using it or doing it tutorial that kind of thing that could turn into a successful ad.

So yeah, I mean like you can really bring it down if you just get crafty yourself. The principles are the same right? It’s like people need to see it being used. They needed. They need to see the value. Like it doesn’t matter necessarily how the how big the it creative investment is if the principles are right.

Steve: So once you have these creatives, let’s say you have like a set of three or four videos that you’ve edited and ready to go. How do you typically set up your initial ad campaigns top of funnel starting from nothing?

Moody: So top of funnel starting starting from nothing. I just would Savage I figure out who this this audience like who the audience is that’s going to look if you’re starting actually from nothing. You can create a list of audiences that makes sense for your brand. So like you know, who’s your competitor set? See if you can you can find you know those Brands but then maybe based off of a bunch of like demographic data or just a really solid strong guests of who your buyer might be I’d start that way with just interests. And then if once you start to like once you start to run track like basically in when I go a little bit more into the fundamentals. It’s all a conversion campaigns for purchases.

Almost all right out the gate. If you’ve got a higher price point product, then you can consider doing something like add the carts just to gauge intent, but what you’re tracking is like what are the odds that are you know, my best like, you know link through CTRs that I can spend money towards but then as you’re getting that deeper Insight, like what’s my cost for add the cart it what’s my cost per initiate check out like am I getting actual purchases from this, you know, you want to kind of track all of that and see which one’s giving you the clear Direction and then start to focus and spend your money there.

And so what you’re going to test is going to test audiences you’re going to test a bunch of creative and copy angles. And as soon as you start to get like insights on to what’s actually working keep diving deeper into those things once you have enough traffic to the website and you get enough people who are you know, actually, you know engaging with your brand in some way you want to turn those into look like so you’ll have like, you know at the very minimum you have like local eggs off of people of website visitors because those people showed intent and then, you know, add to carts once you get up to like 500 or a thousand add to carts. You can make a look like after that.

Steve: What are some guidelines in terms of number of conversions? Whether you decide to go purchases versus add to cart. Why would you go add to cart instead of purchases? The only reason is you would have more add to carts, right?

Moody: It depends how much budget you have and how much you’re willing to spend to learn without getting a return. You know, if you do add to carts in the beginning you’re at least generating and testing especially if it’s a brand-new at account. You’re not going to have the data that the Facebook algorithm and your own account is it’s not going to have the data to go out and find purchases out of date one, so you to like give it like a easier goal, whether that’s literally traffic or engagement or you know a little bit deeper in the funnel where you go to like add to carts, you know, Facebook and start to learn and find that Target easier because you can create, you know, you can create a lot more ad to carts before you can create purchase, especially if you’re starting at a really low budget.

Steve: So do you have a guideline of how many conversions That you would need to kind of train Facebook.

Moody: So I would say you would need you probably need about a hundred conversions of like add to carts and you might see a couple purchases here and there but once you’re up to like Fifty to a hundred purchases, then you’re like switching to purchases.

Steve: Okay. All right, and in terms of the number of creators that you test in any given ad set do kind of limit that or do you just kind of throw everything that you have created in there?

Moody: So in the ad set, you know, you’re not I wouldn’t run more than ten or twelve creatives. I would try yeah, like because you know at least in the ad set level and then I would try to make decisions quickly. I would try to if things are right like so so like you might see like high CTR and it followed through with like low add to carts and actual some purchases. Like that’s that’s the best-case scenario. Sometimes you get a high CTR, but no follower through. So I would just make decisions and then go back and see like if like I’m getting good CTRs and no follow through a public killing that ad.

If it’s not like completely if it’s not like out of the box like just killing it like just doing really well and then I might go back and check and see if they actually, you know with attribution got anything, you know, because a lot of sales don’t actually happen until you know, it takes two to three days depending on your price point for somebody to purchase. That product so it’s all the so something else to consider is just you know, how much how much learnings are happening in attribution and you might be making decisions too quickly.

Steve: So how quick do you wait? How long do you wait before you start shutting things down? That’s not working? couple days?

Moody: Yeah, it’s really more of a spend Factor. Like if I’m spending if I’ve spent three times my like totally AOV like let’s say so let’s say my total AOV is a hundred bucks. If I spent three four five hundred bucks, and I’m not getting I’m not getting any purchases out of that. I could clearly spent too much right, you know if I’m spent if I’ve spent 200 bucks and I’ve gotten add to Cart cost. That’s let’s say, you know, I don’t know. Five times lower than the AOV so like let’s say 20 bucks. Let’s say my add to cart is 20 bucks and I’ve spent 300 bucks and got a few purchases coming in. I’m probably in a good place where I might break even pretty soon and that that math is simply my AOV is a hundred my CPA can be 50.

Let’s say like, you know out the gate and so we optimized it down. So I’m looking to make you know for Says out of 200 dollars in ad spend, you know, and but I’m getting you know my add to cart rate. Let’s say is in the you know, 15 to 20 range. And I know those probably will hit depending on how smooth my funnel is like, you know, it depends how you know, how good are you at connect at converting people from add to carts to purchases. So, you know, you kind of just backing out the equation.

Steve: Sure, right. I mean, there’s a lot of variables involved obviously. So what is your take on like just all the different places that you can run ads now, there’s like 12 different places now, right? Instagram right hand side, Newsfeed, messenger, Marketplace do just try them all or?

Moody: yeah. So power 5 is you know, and is something that Facebook rolled out and we’re very much aligned with power 5, which is like open audiences, you know, open placements, right? Like those are you know, CBO like these are things that I agree with and we don’t think we’re not place them in agnostic unless it comes to stories but even stories like you can you can craft custom and in the ad unit. So but we run across the board and let Facebook figure out because what the Facebook doesn’t tell you is it doesn’t tell you the journey it took to get somebody to convert so it might be, you know served on IG mobile serves on Facebook right hand rail then served on you know.

On mobile desktop mobile for Facebook and then the conversion happened. Well, the only thing that’s going to get the credit is that last touch

Steve: right

Moody: So like you don’t actually get the full picture and by giving Facebook full rains to know the vote like actually optimize against the full picture is best practice.

Steve: I see, And so in terms of creative, do you have different creatives depending on where it’s being shown like give us some. Yeah. Okay

Moody: Yeah, for the most part stories, stories like they’re you know, they’re just It’s a different type of creative and the news feed that’s where you really want and stories are like half of the inventory nowadays. So like you want specifically you want stories. You won’t story creative for the stories placement.

Steve: In general. Do you separate all the mediums into separate ad sets when you’re targeting or did? Do you know what I mean? like one ad said, yes right hand one ad set just for Newsfeed?

Moody: No, we combine everything. And then in the down at the ad level we be plugin custom creative to stories.

Steve: Okay, and so stories is pretty much the only custom created that you use?

Moody: right.

Steve: So, when do you decide that an ad that you’re running you can actually scale that and then what is your procedure for scaling that ad?

Moody: So if you know, sometimes it takes a bit of time look at best case scenario you throw the ad in and you start just seeing a lot of traffic to your site start seeing a lot of conversions happening, especially if you’re running only to if you’re only running Facebook ads and you never had traffic before and now you have a bunch of traffic, I wouldn’t trust the platform too much as much I should just trust you know, what you’re seeing on your back end and Shopify and then if things look good if you’re like breaking even or better I’d start to you know, just double that budget or increased by like 25 to 50% depending.

Like if you started small, you’re like look, I think there’s a different type of spend or this different types of performance at different spend levels. If you’re openly targeting or targeting pretty Broad and you’re spending $100 a day from being up to $200 or $300 day shouldn’t be too much of a difference. You know, I think there’s like different tiers like going from a hundred to a thousand dollars a day is like one tier going from A thousand and three thousand dollars a day is its own tier and then spending like 5,000 or 10,000 dollars a day its own effort in and you know has its own set of challenges as well.

If you’re you know, if you’re spending 50 or $100 a day or so or something like that. You’re not going to get too much of a drop in performance. If you move up to a couple hundred dollars more a day. So like I’m quick with budgets I look I don’t have time to like we know clients and Everyday, like they’re hiring us to find performance.

Steve: Yeah

Moody: So like I’m I gotta find I got to make it win quick and you know, I don’t you know, I think like, you know, so I see solid performance especially if I’m spent seeing like profitable performance then I’m quick to increased budgets quickly.

Steve: And how big is this audience like, so if you have to spend like a thousand dollars a day, like how big should that audience be to kind of avoid burnout? Like when you determine that an audience is kind of burnt out?

Moody: Essentially, it’s like when I start seeing like a 25% drop in performance consistently I start to consider. I don’t think I actually don’t think audiences burnout as much as creative burns out like this is literally the problem.

Steve: Hmm

Moody: You know what I mean? Like your look alikes if they’re off like Dynamic data like purchase that whatever like those won’t change as much as you’re actually that that audience will be fruitful. I mean, you know, there’s two million people in that audience and this is what Facebook is determined the best audience to hit based off of that purchase set and you know, unless you’ve got 2 million people purchasing, you know, they don’t that audience really isn’t worn out

Steve: Right, Okay.

Moody: You can poke holes in that but essentially like, you know, I think creative fatigues a lot quicker than your audience is due and creative is more like I think if you’re seeing if you’re seeing a drop in performance consistently over two, three, four days even as you lower budgets because you maybe you’re watching that I would start to consider that to be a fatiguing creative. You could also look at audience insights and you can actually see how many people have seen your creative once, you know, you can look at, actually, sorry, campaigning outside insights, but you can see like when people are actually dropping off to your creative.

And it once you’re seeing like 25 or 30% I wouldn’t kill that creative. I’d lower down significantly until it wasn’t performing and then I would move it to make a remarketing campaign because it was clearly a hero. So like in remarketing I would want to have like basically a rotational all the hero creatives because if I’m running new topic on the creatives chances are there’s still people haven’t seen those new ones or those old ones and so like in a seven-day remarketing I might have like three or four Heroes along with bottom puddle messaging to convert that user.

Steve: How often do you typically rotate your career? Herbs, and that’s a broad question. I mean you look at performance obviously, but what do you see that you’re rotating it? What frequency rotating them at?

Moody: Yes, I’m trying to find so like it’s you know, you want to have your scaling like create the creative that’s working out and then you know, there’s a life cycle, you know for like it there again lifestyle cycle on creative is actually fairly short. Like we can’t like something will work for three weeks and then it’ll die down. So like we can constantly have to be bringing in new creative like every week so we have like a rigorous like testing schedule of created that we’re bringing into the newsfeed.

Also, you know, we’ve got like editors that are just constantly chopping up new creative as we get it giving it to our team our ads team. And so what we’re launching things like literally twice a week trying to find our next winners because we know they’re only going to last about three weeks before we have to start to scale them down. And that’s I mean, that’s a higher scale

Steve: Yeah. I mean you guys are spending five to ten thousand dollars a day, right?

Moody: Somewhere right there. I can’t really talk numbers.

Steve: Yeah, sure. Sorry, but you don’t have to. The higher your spend the more often. You have to rotate your ads out essentially? Is that accurate?

Moody: Yeah, The higher? Yeah a hundred percent and I would say like you’re the right creatives could work for a long time. Like they if it’s actually a lower spends like the right creatives could work for two, three months and you know not have to be something that would be like complete like you don’t have to be You could introduce creatives every couple of weeks at like lower spends. We’ve literally had creatives that you know, they’re right and they have the viral factor and they hope people in and they sell people on the product.

They literally blasted like a year and a half in some cases like you just get unicorn creatives occasionally, which is like, right? Yep. That one’s go running. You know.

Steve: So I guess the key Point here is you don’t look at frequency, or what not you just basically determine this based on performance. And so if you’re seeing something two to three days underperformed by 25% then it’s time to potentially rotate that out.

Moody: Right.

Steve: And you were use all your creatives like your hero ones and your retargeting ads in the bottom of the funnel. And that’s that.

Moody: Yeah. We also have some bottom of the funnel specific messaging but that you got to really figure out what people’s objections are what are their fears or doubts about you as a company like what you got to build ad specifically to fit those that and maybe even like, you know, usually little bit of a promotion to get people off the fence, but those are really important in bottom of the funnel everyone wants to spend a lot of time on what’s appealing about the brand a lot of people don’t really talk about like, you know deep down, you know, what are the big objections that are people keeping people keeping people away from really pulling the trigger. Those are really really important.

Steve: So given those examples that you gave like what were some of the objections that you kind of addressed in your bottom of funnel?

Moody: So it could be could be quality/price, you know, you can do that easily with testimonials. Testimonials actually work top of funnel as well could be you know, just driving some sort of promotion like hey, you know come back at 10% off try it. Also have a really strong satisfaction guarantee or return policy. So like, you know, hey, like try this risk-free get 10% off today or you know, you know, we’ve got a hundred percent satisfaction guarantee like product or service it whatever.

Steve: Hmm Yeah.

Moody: Hundred percent satisfaction guarantee.

Steve: Yeah

Moody: And so like just having those ads is there as like just a reminder like that you got that the brand is putting his best foot forward. It wants to turn into light the customer and just you know, it’s that helps and you’ll get those are profitable ads that are usually have that usually work very well and remarketing. Now we have going for like all of our brands.

Steve: Okay. Hey Moody. We’ve been chatting for quite a while and I want to be respectful of your time. Where can people find you guys if they need your services.

Moody: So yeah, moody@MuteSix.com or just our website and also hiring I really am looking forward Champions who want to come in all levels whether they’re on the creative side and want to learn advertising or if their campaign managers and want to run Media, or if they you know, what they specifically work in, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be Facebook. We’ve got a Programmatic team that we just started really excited about you know, we’ve got an Amazon team looking for more Champions on our Amazon team if you know Amazon really really well whether that’s organic or paid. I’d love to talk to you. Yeah, they’re like to

Steve: Do you have a URL for that or or you just want them to email you directly?

Moody: You can email me directly. You can see available careers on our website under I think MuteSix.com/careers, but in the definitely in the hamburger menu, but yeah, that’s the best way you can also if your brand you want to work with us. You can find go to our Site, or you can email me directly.

Steve: And I do just want to say that these guys really know their stuff when it comes to advertising and creative. So, you know, even if you feel like you’re good at this stuff, you will learn a lot if you if you contact Moody and work there. I’m sure like if I wasn’t running all my stuff I go work for you guys. Heck you’re famous, dude, so. Haha Alright so Moody, thanks a lot for your time. I really appreciate it man.

Moody: Thanks so much. It’s been a pleasure.

Steve: All right. Take care.

Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now Moody is one of my go-to guys when it comes to making creatives for Facebook ads and for more information about this episode go to mywifequitherjob.com/episode308.

And once again, I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode, Klaviyo is my email marketing platform of choice for e-commerce Merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned cart sequence, a post purchase flow or win back campaign. Basically, all these sequences that will make you money on autopilot. So head on over to klaviyo.com/mywife and try it for free. Once again, that’s klaviyo.com/mywife

Now I talked about how I use these tools in my blog and if you’re interested in starting your own e-commerce store head on over to mywifequitherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini-course just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com

I Need Your Help

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please support me with an iTunes review. It's easy and takes 1 minute! Just click here to head to iTunes and leave an honest rating and review of the podcast. Every review helps!
 

Ready To Get Serious About Starting An Online Business?


If you are really considering starting your own online business, then you have to check out my free mini course on How To Create A Niche Online Store In 5 Easy Steps.

In this 6 day mini course, I reveal the steps that my wife and I took to earn 100 thousand dollars in the span of just a year. Best of all, it's absolutely free!

307: How To Make Life Changing Wealth And Have A Great Family Life With Steve Chou

307: How To Make Life Changing Wealth And Have A Great Family Life With Steve Chou

In this episode, I share a collection of principles that I live by on how to make life changing money without sacrificing your family life.

After all, your capacity to build wealth depends on your mindset, habits and your ability to balance family, health and work.

Enjoy!

What You’ll Learn

  • The collection of principles I live by on how to build life changing wealth without killing yourself
  • How to build an asset that adds value to the world
  • Common mistakes entrepreneurs make

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Klaviyo

EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
Emerge Counsel

SellersSummit.com – The ultimate ecommerce learning conference! Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level BS, the Sellers Summit is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an ecommerce business. Click here and get your ticket now before it sells out.Sellers Summit

Transcript

I Need Your Help

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please support me with an iTunes review. It's easy and takes 1 minute! Just click here to head to iTunes and leave an honest rating and review of the podcast. Every review helps!
 

Ready To Get Serious About Starting An Online Business?


If you are really considering starting your own online business, then you have to check out my free mini course on How To Create A Niche Online Store In 5 Easy Steps.

In this 6 day mini course, I reveal the steps that my wife and I took to earn 100 thousand dollars in the span of just a year. Best of all, it's absolutely free!

306: How My Student Angela Li Makes 6 Figures Selling Jewelry Without Advertising

306: How My Student Angela Makes 6 Figures Selling Jewelry Without Advertising

Today I’m happy to have Angela Li on the show. Angela is a student in my Create A Profitable Online Store Course and she runs a 6 figure business selling jewelry over at AzuraJewelry.com.

Jewelry is one of the hardest products to sell online because the internet is flooded with jewelry makers of all kinds. But Angela has managed to create a great jewelry brand. She doesn’t sell on Amazon, and all of her sales are from her own website and Etsy.

In today’s episode Angela shares her story and reveals how she generates sales.

What You’ll Learn

  • Angela’s motivations for starting her jewelry business
  • How she made her first sale
  • Angela’s advertising and promotion strategy
  • How to leverage Instagram to promote your brand

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Klaviyo

EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
Emerge Counsel

SellersSummit.com – The ultimate ecommerce learning conference! Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level BS, the Sellers Summit is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an ecommerce business. Click here and get your ticket now before it sells out.Sellers Summit

Transcript

Steve: You’re listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and delve deeply into the strategies they use to grow their businesses. Now today, I have an extra special guest on the show who happens to be a student in my create a profitable online store course now Angela Li runs Azurajewelry.com and she makes six figures with her store selling jewelry, which is one of the most difficult types of products to sell online. Not only that but she’s done it without any paid advertising and today she’s going to share her strategies and story.

But before we begin, I want to give a quick shout-out to Klaviyo helps brands build relationships across any distance delivering email marketing moments. Your customers will appreciate, remember and share in good times and bad. And since it is all driven by real-time e-commerce data, you can make sure every interaction feels more personal. Now when you have a 360 degree view of the customer the growth possibilities are endless. So visit klaviyo.com/mywife and try for free. That’s KLAVIYO.com/mywife. Now on to the show welcome.

Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle so can spend more time with your family focus on doing the things that you love. Here’s your host Steve Chou.

Steve: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. Today, I’m really happy to have Angela Lee on the show. Now, Angela is a student in my create a profitable online store course and she runs a six-figure business selling jewelry over at azurajewelry.com. Now, jewelry is actually one of the hardest products to sell online because the Internet is flooded with jewelry makers of all kinds and it’s actually quite easy to get lost in the noise. But Angela has managed to create a great jewelry brand over at azurajewelry.com.

She doesn’t sell on Amazon and all of her sales are from her own site and Etsy as well. Anyway, I decided to bring her on the show to tell her story and reveal how she has managed to generate all of her sales and Angela, Welcome to show. How are you doing today?

Angela: I’m doing great Steve. Thanks for having me.

Steve: So Angela, please tell the audience about your store what you sell and how you got started.

Angela: Sure. So I am the founder of azura jewelry. Azura jewelry was established in New York in 2017 with a mission to inspire and connect. It’s a high-quality fashion jewelry line that targets to bridge the price and quality gap between fine jewelry that you know, use gold and diamonds costing over 500 plus and fashion jewelry that you seem very strong, quality matters that don’t just, that lasts long.

So we only use authentic and natural gemstone, is the heart of our business. We work exclusively with ethically sourced and eco free source, sterling silver plated by 14 karat gold and our prices are also very acceptable. There’s somewhere between 80 to 150. So it’s all started, It’s all started my I guess my love for jewelry really started when I was in college. My mom gives to me a pair of earrings. Right before my first job interview, but my story starts much earlier. I was born in China to a family that was politically persecuted by Chinese communist government for over a decade.

So they have experienced the first hand of Terror of cultural revolution. And for those who are listening to the podcast, but don’t know what cultural revolution is. It is a notorious movement that paralyzed Chinese economy to a significant degree. The stated goal was to preserve Chinese communism by purging remnants of capitalist and intellectuals from the society and includes like Mass killing torture interrogation and as a result, so two million people were killed in that movement. So my grandpa was the financial minister of old China, he is nationalist not communist.

My grandma was the daughter of Chinese ambassador to Japan. They also the relatives of Shanghai Shaq who is the first President of Taiwan and also the chairman of nationalist so inevitably our family became one of the biggest Target and they took our house has clearly our bank account and my grandpa was in prison

Steve: my goodness.

Angela: grandma Yes, it was pretty bad my grandma. She was this gorgeous gorgeous lady. They shaved her long hair in front of like tens of thousands people in a public demonstration and she was paralyzed right after that and soon pass away. So my parents were interrogated. They tortured they were tortured and sent to one of the Parade’s the land in China all the way into 1991. Our family case was rare draft and that was rather wrong moment. And the only did I think that was when I was seven years old. I can only I was only able to go to school so growing up in that environment. I was really just always ask to just put my head down don’t voice any opinion try to blend in and I was growing up very timid and insecure.

So when I was in college, I always really wanted to find a job, you know in a prestigious firm so that I can support myself, my family financially. But I really do struggle to find my footing in such a competitive work right before my first interview my mom gave to me this, you know pair of earrings. It was a white topaz gemstone in the center enclosed by 6 stones, looks like a blooming flower and then put them on I instantly feel so special. I was like, wow, I never thought such a small piece of jewelry can really, you know, make me sit taller and the walk out the door within your confidence. So that was the moment really ignited my passion for jewelry.

Steve: That is an amazing story. So how did you guys ultimately make it into the US?

Angela: So, I moved to the US In 2011. I indeed find a job in a global top 500 company after I graduate from college and in 2011. I really just you know, the freedom of speech is getting worse and worse in China. I really just want to get out of there. So 2011, I came to the US pursue my MBA degree at Georgetown University. And then after that I actually started my career on Wall Street during private, private banking.

Steve: Oh my goodness. Okay, which is a very male-dominated industry. Yeah.

Angela: Yes, very male dominated industry, two years into the industry. I realized okay, that’s not for me. I was, I feel like I’m dying a slow death there. So I was contemplating on the way out. That’s the reason in 2017. I started Azura Jewelry on the side

Steve: Okay.

Angela: But it took me another year and a half to really make up our mind and commit to the business full time. So I quit my job at the end of 2018.

Steve: Wow, congratulations, you know,

Angela: Thank you.

Steve: so when it comes to jewelry though, it’s actually very competitive as I mentioned in the intro. How did you go about validating your jewelry and how did you know that it was actually going to sell?

Angela: So that was actually one of the biggest mistake I made I didn’t validate my niche before that.

Steve: Okay.

Angela: So, had I pick your classes earlier before I launched my business? I probably won’t sell jewelry.

Steve: Really? Okay

Angela: yes.

Steve: but but then you wouldn’t have the successful business. So I mean, I’m not always correct. I just know it’s just very difficult. So

Angela: I think you are absolutely correct. I actually had a year all stagnation. I feel like I was trying to do everything but nothing works so that it was the reason I join your course. And I think at that time I had already listened to a podcast for about six months and my business wasn’t moving forward. I was like, okay, I really need to find a mentor to shed some light and I remember so clearly in the first class the first office, a student asked you about selling jewelry on Amazon. You said you don’t recommend it because it’s hard to categorize. Hard to rank is hard to differentiate yourself.

And it’s also very difficult to articulate, you know, what kind of benefit and functionality, you know, the value that you can bring to the customer. You said if you want sell jewelry you have to really start emotions and stories. So that was actually my aha moment. I said aha because when I create Azura Jewelry, it was really just another to brand. There is no different from my competitors. But after you said that I decided to go through the classes and follow each step you taught in the class.

I started to you know, put my story and my face behind my brand that wasn’t a very comfortable thing to do, but I was like I just, in order to make this work and since I quit my job. I just have to follow them and then that also prompted the unique value proposition that is possible. That’s yeah we have Five different value propositions why customers should purchase from us that how we are different from our competitors. We also you know, the product titles.

We put some spiritual meanings in the product descriptions we talk about the gemstones, you know, the meanings, the healing properties, the powers where the design where how we are inspired by the design to create that piece of jewelry. That is only only by then that my business start taking off.

Steve: Interesting just a few things to just kind of get out of the way. Are you a technical person? Did you have any problems with the website or getting up and running? What was the most difficult part?

Angela: It wasn’t really difficult for me because I majored in chemistry when I was in college. So I’m sort of tech, but my brain functions in a very logical way so but yeah, but I work I put my website on shopify before I it’s really not difficult at all. It’d probably take me about five to six hours to put up the website. It’s definitely less than a day. Yeah, probably more than half day.

Steve: Okay

Angela: that’s already because I already had all the pictures you know, product description, shop policies ready.

Steve: Sure. How did you make your first sale? So you mentioned you didn’t validate your Niche before you got started. So and then you have this website and you have your value props and you have your story but how did you actually generate some traffic to actually get that first sale?

Angela: My first to sale from is generated from Instagram to a customer in Denver. Okay. So clearly yeah, of course I did I didn’t really make any sales. Marketing to all through my family or friends. I just don’t think it’s sustainable or meaningful in any way and pass. I don’t think they will give me all this and transparency back. So from the very beginning my audience actually a cold traffic and we have put a lot of efforts on Instagram.

Steve: So can we talk about your Instagram strategy? So let’s say you had your brand new account brand-new no pictures. What are some of the things that you’re doing with Instagram that had working for your?

Angela: So when I started actually put like about two pages of content in a day.

Steve: Okay

Angela: Yeah. I just don’t want you know some customer land on my pages. The only two pictures say it’s a brand new account, right? Yeah, so I had two pages so they can scroll up and down at least the say some content back then that was 2017. So I first 10K followers actually generated by doing the follow unfollow strategy. My competitors to come this strategy. I don’t recommend at this moment. I just don’t think it works now because Instagram I’ll wear them is getting so much smarter. They can really detect abnormal behavior. And that will literally turn your you know account into a zombie account that you just don’t have any organic reach but back then it works pretty fine for me.

Steve: Did you use software to do that?

Angela: No, I just did it like manually myself.

Steve: Oh manually. Okay. Follow, unfollow wow okay.

Angela: Yeah. Yeah, I just do it manually even though I don’t think software would work. Why? just because I really focused particularly on some sort of, you know competitor’s followers. So it was very targeted. I don’t know how yeah, if any software will do the work.

Steve: Yeah back in the day. You could say I want to follow the followers of somebody and then the Here we go in and do follows and then if no one followed back you would just stop following that person. This is an older strategy back in the day actually around two years ago come to think of it.

Angela: Oh, okay, so I didn’t I didn’t know that. Okay, but I think 10K was like a good threshold to make a brand look legit. Sure after 10K all of our followers, right now we are at 72k followers. So yeah right now It’s all organic, after 10K it’s organic.

Steve: Well, let’s talk about from going from 10K to 72k. What are some things that you do to maintain this Instagram account and actually grow it?

Angela: Before instagram comes down to create high quality and share-worthy content Instagram really favors visually appealing images. So the more people, you know, the more people share your content the more eyeballs you get onto your profile and as a result the more traffic you will be able to direct your website when I’m creating content. I just not just creating for my audience right? I’m creating for my audiences’ audiences’ audiences as well.

So in the each industry is very different. So it’s important to find out what kind of content is share-worthy in in your Niche. What I did is to analyze my competitors viral posts see if a majority of my competitors post a getting a thousand to two thousand likes 30 comments and one of the posters got like over a thousand likes and over a hundred comments. That is a variable.

Steve: Oh, what posts? Sorry.

Angela: a viral

Steve: Viral. Okay. Got it.

Angela: Yeah, viral post. So I would have just assess the pattern of all those viral posts and find out what kind of image they’re using what kind of hashtags and captions they put out there and I would use that as my guidance to create my own content. And once the Instagram has collected enough data on my count. I just using Instagram inside to discover the post that you know, my audience engaged the most aware of and use them as a compass for my future posts.

Steve: What would you say is your most viral post to date? And what does that post look like if you kind of know off the top of head?

Angela: Yes, I absolutely know that the one of the viral post I had is actually made to the Instagram explore tab where I had over 15,000 likes.

Steve: Wow!

Angela: and to that post the general raid us about to over 2,000 followers. That was last month that I now is probably even more so that post is a collection of amethyst ring in a like a lavender setting which is our trend color, so that is called..

Steve: really. So what was special about that one over some of the other ones that didn’t go viral.

Angela: We actually had a lot of posts made to explore tabs nowadays. That’s why I like our Instagram account Grows by probably a hundred followers a day on average. It’s I think it’s really depends on the design of the Ring of the jewelry if people would like it or not and it’s also it sounds weird but it’s also about like this how pretty that picture looks like in general what we find out is you know, Multiple pieces of jewelry works a lot better than just a single piece of jewelry in a picture.

Light background with a pop of gemstone color works a lot better and the bird’s eye view works a lot better. So it’s like a combination of a lot of different factors.

Steve: So you’re saying here that that image or that Instagram post went viral because the image and not necessarily the copy?

Angela: Yes. I don’t think it’s necessarily a copy. I the hashtag step plays also very important role.

Steve: Okay

Angela: In our Instagram strategy.

Steve: So what is your hashtag strategy?

Angela: So actually from the beginning of 2018 right in Instagram roll out this function of having people to be able to follow hashtags and at the beginning I was just like a lot of people I don’t know how effective hashtags are. So I use a lot of big hashtags like #jewelry #goldrings literally just you know, throwing everything at once hoping something sticks.

Last year, I had my intern to do a very comprehensive research on hashtag. We basically find out the most relevant hashtags to my Niche to my followers and to my product that’s basically based on the search volumes also based on you know, like what our competitors are using. So by doing that we actually put a lot of the product in front of people who aren’t even following us.

Steve: So in terms of the hashtags, how do you know that a hashtag that you’re going for might be too competitive and you don’t even have a chance of cracking the front page?

Angela: So what do you use the hashtag actually shows how many posts there how many people follow. So what we did we actually choose the some like medium-sized hashtags like #jewelry. That’s just way too competitive.

Steve: Right

Angela: So we should sound like media sizes and we also it’s more like doing a research of the keywords as well. Like people who usually would Google something in the certain keywords that they would use that as hashtags as well. So that’s how we figure it out.

Steve: What is considered a medium-sized hashtag?

Angela: I would say somewhere from 500k to 700k

Steve: 500. Wow. Okay, and that’s because it does this change depending on how strong your Instagram account is. So back in the day when you had just 10,000 subscribers, I would imagine going for those even 500k hashtags would be too difficult, right?

Angela: Yeah. Yes, I definitely yes. I agree, had something to do with your followers on your Instagram.

Steve: So do you have like some sort of formula or equation that you use to determine what hashtags? To go for it because Azura account grows. Obviously, you can go for harder hashtags, right?

Angela: Yes. At the very beginning we used a lot of these hashtags like hey #amethystrings #bluetopazring those much smaller. Now, we’re targeting bigger hashtags like #GemstonesJewelry.

Steve: I see

Angela: that’s much bigger. Yeah. It’s also broader in some way. But we still use the ish hashtags just because we wanted to rank for a certain categories.

Steve: Okay. So I mean you get 30 hashtags, right? And so what is your mix look like?

Angela: It’s actually every post is different because we wanted to have the hashtag, you know, most irrelevant to that post. We basically have what kind of gem stones we use hashtags, whatever the amethyst blue topaz or whatever and we have the general hashtags. Like hey instead of jewelry, #jewelryoftheday #ringoftheday something like that.

Steve: Okay. Can we can we talk about just like the jewelry design process. So you mentioned before like on Instagram the image is everything and your images are very great. But on the same side, like it’s a designs that people are attracted to right? So is this where your dude you have a background in jewelry design or?

Angela: No, I don’t have a background in Jewelry design. I do have one in that is our design. The other half is actually with private label our factories design.

Steve: Okay

Angela: so they are supposed to give away the auction that we launched we use a lot of factory designs as well. But jewelry design is really not as difficult as most people would think

Steve: okay

Angela: Our designs are really simple for everyday wear rather than something you know you saved for You saved on for some day. So it’s more like, you know, self-expression and Imagination what great is our Jeweler has pretty strong design team who can just translate what I drawn down on a piece of paper In to say Ad what we call is computer aided design.

Steve: Sure.

Angela: Yes, three National. Yeah and then go from there and sometimes it does take like two to three modifications to get what I really have envisioned in my head.

Steve: Okay

Angela: Yeah, but it’s not that difficult.

Steve: So in terms of growing your Instagram account, have you done any collabs giveaways or anything promotions or is it just been just straight organic posting images and content?

Angela: so we do influencer marketing but not into the extent that we have been through like two different strategies. The first strategy is when we have about probably 10K followers. We have reached a lot of influences of similar size and offer them two to three pieces of Jewelry in exchange for shout out. But that was a but that was a nightmare.

Steve: Oh it was? Okay what happened?

Angela: I think 50% of them just walked away with a free piece of jewelry and without posting anything but you know repeated follow up. the thing is like being an influencer has a really low barrier to entry on Instagram, right?

Steve: Yes.

Angela: So anybody could call them as influencer, but it’s a very competitive industry like a being a really good one takes a lot of time and effort. So when we originally out to those like Nano influencers, they probably did probably not even serious about what they do at that moment.

Steve: Yeah. I know. Yeah

Angela: Yeah, that’s why they just walked away with the jewelry they just disappear

Steve: But for the ones that did do the shout out. Did it actually make a difference?

Angela: No, no, it didn’t. I don’t I, at least from my side. I didn’t see a big difference. But last year we had developed this new program. It’s an influencer ambassador and the rap affiliate program. So ambassadors are those where the over 50k for rest of those who have a probably about 20K 250k followers. I just find out those influence or who has passed, you know, trying to keep followers thresholds. They are more serious about what they do.

So they’re more likely to stick to it and we create specific coupon code for each Ambassador and ranft to share with their audiences and they both make a percentage off the sale generated through that coupon code

Steve: I see.

Angela: Yeah. Ambassador’s percentage is higher than raft. The main difference is really Ambassador getting three pieces of jewelry on a quarterly basis and a raft gets free jewelry of just for once and if there is no conversion, we just take the wrap off the program. I see what a lot better

Steve: so they get jewelry no matter what so they can promote it and then they also get a cut of the sale.

Angela: Yes, we do realize that repeated post works better. If they just post once they just don’t generate that much conversion. But if they post, you know once a week three times a month that works much better. So we decided to just offer them jewelry on a quarterly basis.

Steve: If you sell on Amazon or run any online business for that matter, you’re going to need a trademark to protect your intellectual property. Not only that but a trademark is absolutely necessary to register your brand on Amazon. Now, I used to think that any old trademark registration service would work and that could even try to register my own trademark by myself on the cheap, but I was dead wrong. Securing a trademark without a strategy in place usually results in either an outright rejection or a worthless unenforceable trademark. Now, that is why I work with Stephen Weigler and his team from Emerge counsel. They have a package service called total TM, which provides the same attention to detail and process that large law firms do at a fraction of the price. Now for me personally, I like Emerge Council because of their philosophy, their goal is to maximize IP protection while minimizing the price. So before you decide to register a trademark by yourself or file for other I could protection such as a copyright or a patent, check out Emerge counsel first and get a free consult. For more information go to emergecouncil.com and click on the Amazon sellers button and tell Steve that Steve sent you to receive a $100 discount on the total TM package for Amazon sellers. Once again, that’s emergecounsel.com over at emergecounsel.com. Now back to the show.

Steve: Interesting. So I mean it’s essentially an affiliate program, but how does the jewelry get do just give him jewelry whenever a new line comes out or how does the giving away jewelry work?

Angela: So we so they have a coupon codes and we basically have our social media managers and all the email to all the ambassadors say, hey, they can use their coupon code which is a hundred percent off our website. So they can use that coupon code to take two to three pieces of jewelry from our website. That’s how it works.

Steve: Okay, and then it’s are they limited by the just two or three pieces? Right?

Angela: Yes. Usually, yeah. Usually it’s three pieces

Steve: is that Ongoing thing or is it just like a one-time thing?

Angela: It’s ongoing thing every quarter in the first week of that quarter with sent out the email I see how that’s hey you can, you can pick up your jewelry now and then I just go on that blind to place an order.

Steve: So at least once a quarter they’re posting or do they post more often than that?

Angela: They actually post them all off and on that some ambassadors don’t post as often. They probably post only when they receive the Jewelry probably once or twice and their conversion definitely their conversion really suffer lower than those who constantly posting

Steve: sure

Angela: but this is also like a process of figuring out who really which, you know, which Ambassador really works.

Steve: Let me ask you a question here. So you’re doing all this through Instagram, right? So these people are posting on Instagram. Have you tried this strategy with bloggers as well people with websites that can actually link to your store?

Angela: Yes, we do at the beginning way to work to with a lot of bloggers who can we mainly do that because we wanted a backlink from them. Rather than having them to promoting our jewelry and in exchange. We also create a blog to them. So we give them the backlink as well.

Steve: I see it has that worked as well or has the Instagram just been a lot more successful for you?

Angela: To generate sales, Definitely Instagram, but yeah the backlinks stuff definitely help with the SEO a lot more.

Steve: Okay. How did you get to be featured on the magazines that have been listed on your site?

Angela: Oh, I just keep bugging the editor ha ha ha. So I follow a lot of accessory editors on the major had on their social media and I just engage with them like by commenting on their stories and called and then usually after like a month of like engaging them and I would send the brand introduction email to them to introduce who we are and what we sell and after several weeks. I follow up with a package of like a collection of certain pieces.

You know that fit into the theme of what’s going on during that period and a week later. I just asked hey, do you have a question? Can I send some samples to you this and that and when they are having birthday, I’m sending some gifts to their birthday and yeah, that’s how it works.

Steve: Right? So this is like a long-term strategy here. So how long does it typically take before you do your ask in terms of just engaging with them.

Angela: For some of them It’s actually really fast. It’s all it take like one to two to ask but some other editors actually takes a lot longer. We still have editors. We probably pitch them pitch to them like six seven times 8 times. They have never responded to us.

Steve: How did you get their emails?

Angela: I got their emails is from like I know what the magazines that they work for and they just have certain logic of how they have their emails. It’s usually their last name first name @wmagazine.com or it would be just the first letter of your last name and then their first name dot you know

Steve: right

Angela: well something like that. Yeah, so I just

Steve: So what would your average initial email sounds like?

Angela: Especially sounds like hey, this is Angela. I’m the founder of Azura jewelry. And then I have a you know introduction of what Azura jewelry is and tell them what is our unique value proposition. And hey, we would love to be kept in mind for future stories. Please. Let me know like if you wanted to review our samples, something like that. That’s the first of all reach, you know.

Steve: Do cold send them jewelry or do you actually talk to them first and ask them if they want the jewelry, you mentioned sending them on birthdays and that sort of thing which assumes you have an address for them.

Angela: Yes, because sometimes when they respond I would get a dress in their signatur

Steve: I see.

Angela: And he’s on the yeah. So sometimes people they post on this Instagram that they are having, you know birthday. I would just send some flowers over. Just to feel that long-term relationship.

Steve: What is your hit rate? I’m just kind of curious when you’re doing this cold Outreach.

Angela: It’s actually works pretty well. I think 60 a 70 percent also.

Steve: Wow, that’s amazing.

Angela: Yeah. Well the respond to me especially because we engage with them first rather than to send out an email. We have been commenting following them on their Instagram. Sometimes I read the email because if they have an article coming out. I wouldn’t post it. I would write them an email saying hey, I really like this article, you know, keep up the good work this and that so they really appreciate that.

Steve: So you pay attention to when they post and you’re among the first commenter, so they actually notice you

Angela: Yes, I definitely common first on their post

Steve: Is this everything that you do or do you Outsource this?

Angela: I do it myself.

Steve: You do it yourself. Okay

Angela: this is because I don’t think, I have a social media manager who basically respond to all the comments on my Instagram page and all the you know, Instagram inquiries, but I don’t think they are trained to reach the editors at this moment.

Steve: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.

Angela: So either that yeah, I just do that myself.

Steve: What tools are you using for Instagram to just kind of manage the whole thing?

Angela: Nothing. I actually I don’t use any specific tool

Steve: really Interesting, Just okay.

Angela: Yeah I have I have someone to manage my Instagram account at this moment. I basically just go into the account and you know building relationship with editors other than that there is no special tools

Steve: No tools. Okay. Just the Instagram app.

Angela: Yeah

Steve: so I know since you gave an office hour, which I did a website critique for you during office hours that you take all of your images with your iPhone. Right? Is that still true?

Angela: Yeah. Yes. I do. So those white background pictures that you saw on my website. They actually taken by a professional photographers, but all those Lifestyles that you say on my website and also on my Instagram I took them by on my iphone.

Steve: Okay, so there’s a disk. So all the product photos are professionally taken?

Angela: Yeah, all the white background.

Steve: Okay, and then but all your Instagram photos and everything. Those are taking with your iPhone, right?

Angela: Yes. So yes for the product pictures. We have only one or two white background picture and the rest are like on the models on lifestyle pictures. Those are all so I picked them.

Steve: Wow. All right, so that my the reason why I’m asking this is you know for Instagram, obviously you have to have your photos on your phone and I guess it’s logical then that since you’re not Any helper apps all your images are taken on your phone.

Angela: yeah.

Steve: Okay. Do you run them through any apps after the fact I mean the photos look amazing are using Lightroom?

Angela: Yes. No, that’s too technical. For me

Steve: okay. So..

Angela: yeah, that’s too technical so I basically just used like a filter. The thing is about jewelry pictures, right? It can be very difficult. It can be very simple when I say it’s easy. It’s because you know, I need is a table setting some pro, a hand and background, in the ear, is different from like clothing brands. They actually have to have different models makeup, you know background. So I really don’t need all that.

The difficult part is the gemstones actually reflect light differently. So if you don’t do it right you lose that authenticity of the color and texture.

Steve: Mmm. Okay

Angela: I take everything on my yeah, so I only take pictures with night light sometimes between to 11:30 to 1:30. So every month I spent probably an hour and 30 minutes to take about 30 pictures for that month.

Steve: I see

Angela: I just use a filter to add in my picture probably take about 10 seconds. I do that when I’m in line for my coffee in strabucks

Steve: So it’s all done on your phone.

Angela: Yes, he’s all done in my iPhone.

Steve: What about order fulfillment? Are you fulfilling all of your own orders?

Angela: So I do both I use fulfillment center and I also fulfill some orders myself if they are popular designs and we’re moving in volume if fulfilled by a fulfillment center in New Jersey, they charge us probably like 180 per order with the for like multi-channel with that additional $0.20 per units within the same order. Yeah.

Steve: How did you find this 3pl?

Angela: They actually reach out to us on Shopify group on a Facebook group. It was like open World. yeah, they just reach out to us because I was talking about like we’re having some troubles with the international shipping this and that and they reach out to us and then I decided to give it a try and so far it works well and for the others like a new designs because we’re just testing designs probably have only like 30 50 pieces. I don’t know if we’re going to move volumes because they charges for inventory the storage cost as well. So I just shipped those out myself.

Steve: So someone comes on your site and they order something that is stored at the 3pl as well as one of these new designs that your shipping shipping out of your house. I would imagine.

Angela: Yeah

Steve: so does that mean that they’re going to get two separate orders like two separate boxes and that case?

Angela: No, they’re not. No. So for those like, No for certain designs way only either carry in my house or carry in the Fulfillment center.

Steve: Yeah, but what if I order both? In one order.

Angela: Oh in one order that hasn’t happened to me yet.

Steve: Okay

Angela: that’s a very good one, yeah that hasn’t happened to me yet.

Steve: Now. I noticed on your site that your jewelry has a lot of reviews on them, and I’m just wondering what your process is for gathering reviews and following up and doing customer service.

Angela: At the beginning we Gather reviews by just Outreach customer if they write a review for us. We will give them a like $10 coupon for their next order. That’s basically how we generate the initial review. Once we have enough to look at our website to make our water look very credible and legit. We basically just used you know, the automatic email sequence sent out by exempt.

Steve: Okay. What did what are you using?

Angela: Stamped.

Steve: Oh Stamped.io got it.

Angela: Yeah

Steve: Okay. Are you using email marketing tool?

Angela: Yeah, we do Klaviyo.

Steve: Okay Klaviyo.

Angela: We just migrate from MailChimp last year when they break up with the Shopify. Yeah at this moment our email. Yeah. No, just our email marketing doesn’t work as well as I hoped

Steve: Interesting

Angela: So we just have, you know certain flows, automatic flows.

Steve: right

Angela: in place and the we send out campaigns probably once every two weeks. But our email marketing is very low. So that’s probably caused the issue.

Steve: interesting or are you doing any advertising?

Angela: Right now all of our traffic is organic.

Steve: Oh, wow, so we’re running, we have 75% of margin at this moment.

Angela: Amazing.

Angela: We do around some retargeting ads on Facebook which is probably full access our ROI but what I realized is that if I run ads to traffic on Facebook, I probably haven’t done it really, you know.. well

Steve: it’ll be tricky for sure.

Angela: It can be really really expensive.

Steve: Yes. Yeah.

Angela: . Yeah, but in the future like this year, our Focus will be on targeting, you know, the pay traffic. I’ll tackle them one by one.

Steve: So for the people out there may be a listening who might want to sell jewelry. What would you say was the biggest challenge in just kind of getting started and getting your first sales?

Angela: I think at the beginning is like I really didn’t validate my niche that is the biggest one and also I think really just to avoid the shiny object syndrome because at the beginning I was trying to do everything. I did affiliate marketing influencer marketing, you know, Facebook ads everything nothing really worked well for me, I just realized that if you can just focus on one thing and do a really well be an expert on that. You will have a six-figure business. So I think it’s dive deep in one topic is better than scratching the surface, you know also a hundred different things.

Steve: How much money did you invest to start your business?

Angela: Less than $1,000 the first, the inventory where we have, we invest probably about 400 to 500 and then the Shopify theme cost about 280. We actually bought a theme for 140 as well. We have some jewelry boxes to so yeah

Steve: so under $1,000 that’s amazing.

Angela: Yeah under a thousand dollars.

Steve: and on the Instagram front if people want to start marketing with Instagram, you mentioned that follow, unfollow doesn’t work anymore. How would you grow an account today?

Angela: I think it really just have a good hashtag strategy in place and create, focus on creating high-quality content.

Steve: And when you say high quality content, how do you know what that is? Like, what is what is the approach to figuring out what that great content is going to be?

Angela: Yeah, So as I mentioned like what I did is to, you know, find out the viral post off my competitor, right? analyze the pattern, the commonality of all those variables and then Just emulate that to create my own compass and later on you can use the Instagram insights to figure out what kind of content your customer actually engage both with and you just use that as a guidance going forward.

Steve: One thing I forgot to ask you is Instagram you can’t post links. So is everyone just clicking on your profile link to find you?

Angela: Yeah. So in our descriptions we tell them like hey the link is in the profile click the links to purchase and also we tag all of our product in a picture. So if they tap on a photo they can help them go through to the website to make purchase.

Steve: Yes. Yes, right right. Now that is something you can do with Shopify. You can link Shopify to your Instagram account.

Angela: Yes. Yeah. Yes. That’s what I would do

Steve: I see and so when you look at your Google Analytics Like your sales are click-throughs from Instagram. Like when you look at like the source tab

Angela: yes, probably 70 percent of our traffic coming from Instagram

Steve: and when an influencer, when an influencer posts about you, are they just tagging your Instagram page or are they trying to get people to your website?

Angela: They actually tagged our page your page.

Steve: Your page, Okay, so they click over to your page and then they click on the link to get to your store.

Angela: Yeah, if it’s a post, yes. If it is an Instagram story, they actually link to our website.

Steve: Okay. Oh, I was going to ask you about that Instagram stories. Do you have a strategy with that?

Angela: Ah so for Instagram stories We post probably 1 to 2 stories a day and it can be some user-generated content just like you know some customer reviews, customer tag us in the picture. It can be something like announcement of the new launch. We do use Instagram story to collect feedbacks a lot. We do a lot of survey asking customers what kind of the gemstone you like to say do it like this design or do it like that design.

That’s actually take a lot of the guesswork for us. So yeah, that’s basically what we use and we post some like motivational quotes just because we position ourselves as you know, spiritually uplifting trend.

Steve: right. How often do you just post those type of post versus ones that are designed to get you to the website on stories?

Angela: we actually post that post to our website pretty often probably once a day every other day. Yes, we do have that kind of post.

Steve: Okay, and so in terms that, you mentioned that the hashtag strategy Is the most important so it’s just a matter of just typing in these hashtags and Instagram finding out how many people are posting in these hashtags and figuring out whether you can actually have a chance of getting displayed with them and then just gradually working your way up

Angela: Yes, I think find a hashtag that is most relevant to you, your product and your audience is very important.

Steve: I’m just curious like you mentioned the follow unfollow doesn’t any more I. When you first told me that I thought that you were using an automated tool, which I agree is kind of not working anymore. So does that imply then that with your account? You’re not really following anyone anymore?

Angela: No, no, that’s like two years ago. I think I think last year. I had recommend 12 of my friends to use the same strategy, but somehow I think Instagram algorithm changed so they kind of get their account block for like two months

Steve: They overdid it, Basically

Angela: they probably overdid it. But yes, but later on I don’t buy followers. Don’t buy likes, don’t buy comments.

Steve: Yeah

Angela: because Instagram can really detect that so I don’t think it works as you know, as well as in the past

Steve: one last question. I forgot to ask you is when you’re looking at these influencers to work with on Instagram. How can you tell that their followers are legit? Like how many likes would you have to see on a post to know that those followers are actually real followers?

Angela: We, so we basically use three different tools, three different things. We use social blade to say their daily changes off their, you know followers. If one day they had 500 followers. The other two days, they have only three followers, right? We do know that they have probably fake followers. It’s just, you know, it’s just the certain boost of like the followers it’s not like

Steve: What are the terms of Engagement though, I mean engagement is very important as well. How do you measure that or what are your guidelines? I should say.

Angela: We actually click into their likes and comments to see who engage with them. So a lot of influencers actually in some instapot. Instapot is a group of people. They you know group of bloggers. They just commenting on each other’s posts. to boost, you know their algorithm. So that really work as well. So we will look at who commenting on them if it’s like customer or you if followers or if it’s like some other influencers.

If all their comments, likes, from other influencer like so from other influencer we definitely don’t work with them because we don’t think the engagement rate is real for that account.

Steve: So let’s say there’s an account that you want to work with that has 10,000 followers and let’s say they only get like 10 likes per page. That’s obviously bad. Is there like a threshold that you would use?

Angela: No, actually, we don’t use that threshold because we don’t really think that threshold is that meaningful?

Steve: Okay, so it’s mainly just comments.

Angela: Yeah because they can buy a lot of likes they can buy comments anything can buy. We really just have into it and say the quality of the comments, quality of the likes.

Stev: I see

Angela: but I don’t do this work at this moment as well I have a social media manager.

Steve: Yeah, I’m just yeah, but at one point in your business, you did this all yourself, right?

Angela: Yes. I did all this myself.

Steve: Yeah, so really it’s just it’s kind of like a gut feel whether the

Angela: Yeah

Steve: okay

Angela: and it’s also depends on the quality of the content they have produced.

Steve: In terms of imagery or copy or?

Angela: in terms of the image, the copy, in terms of their Instagram stories. If they never post any Instagram stories, you know that they are not serious about like being an influencer right? But you did someone have you know, igtv they constantly posting their reviewing products they have great content. They have a professional photographer that you know, they are serious about what they do.

Steve: okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Angela, We’ve been chatting for quite a while. I would just kind of wanted to conclude this first with what advice would you give people who are on the sidelines right now who want to start an online business?

Angela: So I would say, start to you know, streamline your business established a good system early on so at the very beginning I was doing my customer service for probably ten months by myself. I have documented all the questions customer asked. I categorize them. I have my email templates ready and whenever you know, I upload the product into my Shopify creating a question manager like return and exchange.

I always just like record like screen recording and have everything documented so when I was ready to scale up my business, I can just offload everything to a full-time in like two days and work, it has been working really really well.

Steve: Hmm okay

Angela: So I think doing that is just really helping you save so much of your time and a mental capacity so that you can really focus on you know revenue-generating activities. That is also my goal this year because I really wanted to remove myself from day-to-day and just focus on marketing.

Steve: That’s great advice Angela. Where can people find you online. Like what is your Instagram? What is your store name? If you wouldn’t mind spelling it out and where can people contact you if they have any questions or if they’re just kind of curious.

Angela: Sure. My website is a Azurajewelry.com. Spelled as A-Z-U-R-A-J-E-W-E-R-L-Y.com My personal email is angela@azurajewelry.com and My Instagram is Azura.NYC

Steve: Nice. Well Angela, I really appreciate you coming on. I’m sure the people listening to this are very inspired. And I mean I’ve learned a lot about Instagram from you as well. So, thank you so much.

Angela: Thank you so much, Steve.

Steve: All right, Take care.

Hope you enjoyed that episode. Angela is an amazing person. And I love that she’s overcome so much hardship in her life. So please support her store over at azurajewelry.com and I’m not a jewelry expert by any means but my wife says her jewelry is beautiful. For more information about this episode go to mywifequitherjob.com/episode306.

And once again, I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode, Klaviyo is my email marketing platform of choice for e-commerce Merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned cart sequence, a post purchase flow or win back campaign. Basically, all these sequences that will make you money on autopilot. So head on over to mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo. Once again, That’s mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo.

Now I talked about how I use these tools in my blog and if you’re interested in starting your own e-commerce store heading over to mywifequitherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini-course just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com

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305: A Recap Of Sellers Summit 2020 With Toni Anderson

305: A Recap Of Sellers Summit 2020 With Toni Anderson

Toni Anderson and I throw a conference every year called The Sellers Summit. It’s a show about bringing ecommerce entrepreneurs together to learn new strategies on how to sell physical products online.

This past year was our 5th year and it was easily the most difficult one yet because of COVID-19. In less than a month, we had to quickly pivot to a virtual event and it ended up being a huge success.

In today’s episode, Toni and I give our recap of Seller Summit 2020.

What You’ll Learn

  • Key takeaways of Seller Summit 2020
  • The sessions and speakers of Seller Summit 2020
  • What’s it’s like to run a virtual conference at the last minute

Other Resources And Books

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Transcript

Steve: You’re listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and delve deeply into the strategies they use to grow their businesses. Now today, I have my partner Tony Anderson back on the show. And today we are going to do a full recap of the seller Summit our annual e-commerce conference, which we had to take all virtual this year at the last minute.

But before we begin I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode Klaviyo helps Brands build relationships across any distance delivering email marketing moments. Your customers will appreciate Ember and share in good times and bad and since it is all driven by real-time e-commerce data, you can make sure every interaction feels more personal now when you have a 360 degree view of the customer the growth possibilities are endless. So visit clay veoh.com my wife to try for free. Once again, that’s KLAVIYO.com/mywife. Now on to the show.

Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle so can spend more time with your family focus on doing the things that you love. Here’s your host Steve Chou.

Steve: Welcome to the my wife quit her job podcast today. We are doing a special episode because I’m not interviewing anyone, instead I brought Toni Anderson back on the podcast for like the millionth time to do a recap of seller Summit 2020, which just took place last week. Now the seller Summit is a conference at Toni and I throw every single year and it’s a show about bringing e-commerce entrepreneurs together virtually this time and learning new strategies on how to sell physical products online.

And this is our fifth year and easily the most One yet due to the coronavirus. So today we are going to talk about how we had to Pivot everything at the last minute and key takeaways from the talks. So how you doing today? Toni? Thanks for taking the time to come back on. So this is our fifth year ticket sales were going great leading up to March. We’re almost sold out and then covid-19 happened. Just trying to get your thoughts on how you felt things went this year.

Toni: You know, I thought we did the best that we could in the circumstances having never have run an online event before Or I think there were definitely some challenges for us. But I think overall people really got a lot out of Seller Summit 2020.

Steve: Yeah, I mean it was really stressful throwing things together cut at the last minute, right? We had like a month to prepare for it. But yeah, since I’m in charge of tech I was extra nervous for this whole virtual thing, but it went pretty smoothly. I think we only had one minor technical hiccup with one talk.

Toni: Yeah, and I think the complicated part of it is it was that it wasn’t just you and I talking for three days. We were bringing on people from all over actually all over the world. Right? And so we’re not relying on multiple internet connections, multiple cameras, multiple microphones that we don’t have any control over because all of our speakers are using their own computers and things like that. So I think it added a layer of complexity that made us both a little bit nervous.

Steve: And also on your part with the planning like we had people from Australia, you know all over the US to and just planning the timing was a little complicated too.

Toni: yeah because we had East Coast speakers West Oh speakers. And it’s one thing when everyone is in the same location physically and then you can ask everybody to get up at 9 a.m. But it’s hard to ask someone on the west coast to get up super early to do a talk. You know what I mean? It’s just it just adds a layer of complexity. I totally agree.

Steve: Yeah, I mean I still like having a live event better, but I think it probably went as good as it could have gone in terms of virtual events. And one thing that we were talking about this earlier as we really like having the live chat on there when speakers are talking because typically Someone’s talking up there. You’re not getting into the minds of the audience. And so I thought that was a really good value add.

Toni: it reminded me of what is the Disney movie about the girl and it’s the characters are inside her brain and there’s like anger and joy, I guess It’s the

Steve: Inside my head right? Is that what it’s called?

Toni: Inside Out.

Steve: Inside out. That’s it. Yep.

Toni: Yeah. Okay, so it reminded me of that movie because typically when you’re in a big conference Auditorium, you can see on people’s faces for the most part like, oh they’re losing the crowd or the crowds really into it, but it was really enjoyable to read their commentary as the sessions were going along.

Steve: Yeah, totally and people were having questions along the way and I think a lot of people who might not have normally asked questions if it were alive were asking all sorts of questions in the live chat.

Toni: Absolutely because I think it is intimidating if you’re in a ballroom and there’s 200 people and someone walks over and hand you a microphone. You got to stand up for some people that’s very natural. But for other people that is like no way in a million years, are they ever going to do that.

Steve: And I think we had extended QA. Which in my opinion is actually made these talks this year a lot more in-depth than in previous years when we had to do it live right because we have limited time when we’re live.

Toni: Because when you’re live you have to account for people switching rooms, you know having to wait in line to go to the bathroom getting a drink whatever when your virtual you just assume people can kind of do that at their Leisure and they don’t have you don’t have to add these like 15 minute blocks for breaks. So we were allowed we were able to extend our speaker time. I want to say each speaker had around 10 to 18 minutes for QA.

Steve: Somehow longer I think Derek Halpern. I think we went on for an hour and 45 minutes.

Toni: Well that’s the benefit, same with Mike Jackness right because he was the last talk.

Steve: Oh That’s true. Yeah

Toni: Of the first day. Which people really love because he was able to bring on his VA who was located in the Philippines. And so they were able to do an extended Q&A as well because they were the last Talk of the night. However, I was ready for bed at that point.

Steve: So I don’t know if it was a combination of having the live chat and the extended QA. But I actually personally thought that this year’s content was actually better than any of the prior years.

Toni: It was my favorite year for content for sure.

Steve: Yeah, and I don’t know if what the difference was really maybe it was the speakers maybe is the content but I want to say also is the extended QA in the live chat as well.

Toni: Yeah, I think with what the live chat did was it allowed the speakers to go in-depth into some of the points that they had made during their talks which they which actually they get at the round tables at the event, right? So they’re able to do that at a later time on the last day. However, it doesn’t get to happen in the big room with everybody.

Steve: Yeah, I think that’s probably what it was and then instead of like having the round tables like we usually do I think the live chat actually essentially took the place of that, right?

Toni: Yeah. Absolutely

Steve: So let’s go down some key takeaways of the talks so I kicked it off with the keynote and I did want to share with the listeners some statistics that I gathered for this keynote. I’m probably gonna publish the keynote online, but I just want to give you some of the highlights. I published a bunch of statistics on the of Corona on e-commerce and I had Jake Cohen on a couple of weeks ago to kind of discuss Klaviyo’s numbers, but overall I would say everything in e-commerce is up.

The only categories that are really down right now are like men’s Formal wear, Bridal Wear, party and event supplies and that sort of thing luggage. Everything else is up big time and I kind of quoted some statistics here and I think from just clear videos customers. It seems like everyone is up. Up between 20 and 30 percent Gorgias, which is another sponsor quoted similar numbers. And what was really interesting is when I looked at Shopify’s Global traffic numbers and what we did is we compared Black Friday with the traffic that we were getting in April and every single day in April was like Black Friday.

Which essentially meant it was like Black Friday every day for people on Shopify. So I don’t know if you find that believable or not, but I guess it’s the statistics don’t lie.

Toni: It’s interesting because I don’t, I definitely believe the statistics but yet at the same time. I’m hearing Sellers and Facebook groups and things like that talking about how they’re struggling.

Steve: Yeah, you know, I’m here that too and we’re in the event industry. So like in my keynote I was talking about how we were down in the beginning and we kind of pivoted it to quarantine gifts. So Linens with funny sayings on them and that sort of thing and that’s actually what made the difference for us, but I guess when you hear about people complaining like they’re down online, I guess the extremes of the one who are going to post, right?

Toni: Absolutely. And I also think too. I think I think of someone else who was able to Pivot was Amanda Whitten born who sells birthday invitations and she was able to Pivot into making I think teacher thank you postcards and things like that. I think the people that don’t have the ability to Pivot and then to mine that comes like more Amazon specific Shoppers.

Steve: Yeah

Toni: Or Sellers where they are selling, you know, very specific skews on Amazon. They weren’t able to ship things in things like that. That’s hard to Pivot right because you’re not going to be able to import a different product you don’t control a lot of those supply lines and those are the people that are probably the ones that are very vocal in the groups that I’m seeing.

Steve: yeah I mean like if you just look at Amanda for example like she couldn’t ship any more product in so she went Merchant fulfilled and it was nuts

Toni: Great

Steve: but a lot of these larger companies who don’t have fulfillment infrastructure obviously can’t do that so.

Toni: right.

Steve: Facebook ads cpms plummeted I got some stats from my buddies over at mute 6 Facebook ad costs are down like 25% and So based on all this overall and I can only speak in aggregate here this is the best time to be in e-commerce like there’s going to be a new normal because everyone’s used to shopping at home now and this is going to persist for quite some time I think

Toni: well that was one of the biggest takeaways I don’t want to skip to the take away so quickly but the one thing that really stuck out to me that I feel like multiple speakers talked about was that the one thing that this whole quarantine shelter-in-place has done Is open people’s eyes to shopping online. So people who were not shopping online before or were not shopping online regularly are now becoming regulars shopping online.

And so that opens up a huge opportunity and I think in either your keynote or someone else had that the sales online have surpassed brick-and-mortar right in April, I think so, I think that’s where the opportunity is for the e-commerce sellers right? Is that you’re going to get these new customers who were may be wary of shopping online before because they weren’t forced to, now it’s becoming comfortable for them and it’s going to become something regular.

Steve: I mean, you know, it’s a big deal when my mom who’s I think going to be 80 years old is using instacart and everything when she has not ever done that before

Toni: right

Steve: and she’s using Zoom as a verb now. “You want to zoom it tonight?” you know, there’s gonna be

Toni: Hey we zoomed it to The Seller Summit.

Steve: Oh, that’s true.

Toni: Did you put that video up everywhere or just on private

Steve: No no not yet. I still have to put it up everywhere. But yeah, so we held this opening party on zoom, and it was nuts. It was a lot of fun though.

Toni: It was funny because up until two minutes before we went live. You were saying to me. No one’s going to show up. No ones gonna show up.

Steve: Yeah

Toni: It’s gonna be it’s gonna be you and me and one other person and I think whenever we went to login and I had it set where people had to sit in the waiting room just because I wanted to make sure that we didn’t get any trolls. I said, you know, we went we were maybe five minutes before launch and I said, we have 15 people in the waiting room. And then I said, we have 20 people in the waiting room. We have 22 people in the waiting room, so it was crazy. I think we ended up with like 45 plus people on at one time people had to came and get went but it was pretty cool.

Steve: I think I was trying to be fashionably late and then you texted me panicking.

Toni: Yeah I remember I was I was like, where are you?

Steve: I didn’t think they were gonna be that many people on time and waiting to be honest with you, but it was a pleasant surprise

Toni: and it was cool because even though I will say it does not take the place of in-person meetups. It was nice that everybody got a chance. Introduce themselves say hello say a little bit about themselves and just what it I think it helps the next day when people were in the chat that they put a name with a face because they had seen them the night before on the zoom call.

Steve: Oh, yeah, totally totally I think it I think it totally helped. I mean is the best that we could do under the circumstances for people to meet each other

Toni: Hey and people had Zoom backgrounds which just made made my night as you know

Steve: And everyone was drinking too. So it’s kind of like a cocktail party

Toni: cocktail party that I didn’t have to stay up late for so I might be lamenting this every year. I don’t know.

Steve: So the overall theme of Seller Summit this year was on owned marketing. So this is marketing that you can control because of all these things have been happening on Amazon. It was just post in the Wall Street Journal that Amazon surprisingly and shockingly was using cellular data to launch their own competing products. And so yeah, the theme was own marketing we covered three main categories one was earned marketing, which is where you get Word of Mouth sales. Social Media mentions reviews owned marketing is where you actually own the medium. So this these are things like your own online store, your email list ], your SMS list, your messenger list, SEO organic Facebook and that sort of thing.

And then of course paid advertising, Facebook ads, Google ads, Amazon ads, influencer marketing and marketing. And so what I thought I’d do for the rest of this podcast is to kind of go over some key takeaways from the talks.

Alright, so the first talk was from Andrea and she taught us how to use SMS marketing to grow your business. And I hope that her talk kind of solidified that SMS is going to be the next big thing. I am contributing a lot of my resources towards getting SMS marketing up for my e-commerce store. And once again, once you have someone’s cell phone number, that’s yours. It’s like an email address except better because people always open their text. Now you might be thinking to yourself that people might not want to be marketed via text, but it’s happening right now and it’s slowly going to become more widely accepted

Toni: and I love the idea that this is just one more component in a way to reach your customers and for me personally, I don’t mind getting text marketing because you can always unsubscribe is very simple and it is true. I open every text that I get. So I think this is a definitely a talk to listen to multiple times.

Steve: and if it’s a company they actually want to hear from then you’re probably not going to mind. So, for example, I get text messages from this chicken place right down the street for sales and I actually don’t mind and oftentimes the texts influence me to go eat there that night.

Toni: Oh, absolutely I get the Chipotle text and like that. Absolutely influences me getting Chipotle.

Steve: Oh, just okay. I didn’t I’m not on the Chipotle SMS list. I guess

Toni: they do all their coupons through SMS, which is actually pretty smart right because I know when they probably text me I’m usually going to get a coupon

Steve: exactly. Yeah same with that chicken place for me. So if you guys aren’t doing SMS marketing I encourage you to give it a try and look at Klaviyo because if you already using klaviyo it kind of like a no-brainer since they have all your sales data already.

The next talk was from Jeff Oxford and he taught everyone how to grow your organic search traffic for your eCommerce store. I really love this talk Toni. I don’t know what you thought of it.

Toni: It’s I love this talk. This was probably in my top top three talks this year. He’s such a good presenter. Everything is so clear and understandable and he you always walk away with some strategies. And actually I’ve always I’ve already started to implement a couple of the Outreach strategies that he recommended in his talk.

Steve: And I want to say that he pretty much covered. He did a good job of covering almost all of SEO in just like an hour and he got a ton of questions also in the live chat.

Toni: Yes. That one was one of our top question sessions for sure.

Steve: Yeah, and a lot of people who are coming off of Amazon starting on their own store, you know organic traffic is probably going to play a decent sized chunk of your overall sales.

The next talk was from Natasha Takahashi. She taught us how to leverage chat Bots to grow your eCommerce store. Now I’ve been using chat Bots for jeez, I think at least three, four years now at this point and is actually now a significant portion of my sales for mywifequitherjob.com. Especially it’s probably close to like 40% of my sales. I know you’re not using chatbots yet Toni. What did you think of this talk?

Toni: So I I loved this talk. I thought this was a great. First of all, Natasha is an amazing presenter. I loved just she’s very organized and it’s very easy to follow but what I thought was interesting about this talk, is it got the Sub chat going in our Seller Summit Group and people were in the chat talking about everything as she was talking. So I’m gonna have to go watch it again because I didn’t get all of her strategies because I was busy monitoring because people actually were talking about you Steve and how you were actually a chatbot and there was that was the only way you could get things done.

Steve: I remember that.

Toni: I was in there monitoring the chat while she was talking thinking I am not getting like half of this but after her talk what I what I was able to get from it, it’s Something I need to do. It’s just one of those things right? You know, it’s like one more thing in your business and I don’t want to jump ahead but we hadn’t someone else talk about working in your business on what is already successful. So as I was ready to jump into chatbots, then I heard another talk and I was like, okay, maybe not maybe not yet.

Steve: Yeah, we’ll get to that talk. Actually. It’s a very important talk about getting overwhelmed with all the strategies that you learn in a conference, but I found it actually did a great job of just clarifying why you should even go into Facebook Messenger Marketing in the first place.

Toni: Right and it’s so it’s so much less expensive right now than email marketing and I think you were talking about this and I think she references as well, you’re getting about Forex return right compared to email. Is that what your numbers were?

Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean the engagement is so much higher than email right now.

Toni: Yeah, so it feels like a no-brainer. But at the same time it also feels like something really big to set up. So it’s one of those things that I feel like I have to balance with my own business, but it’s definitely definitely on my list and and high up. For sure.

Steve: Yes, I mean, you’ve got a lot more plates than I have to juggle.

So the next talk was a summit favorite back in 2016 Drew Senaki, he spoke that first year. We launched it hasn’t been back since but I kind of roped him back into coming on and speaking this year and I loved his talk. He talked about how to make your business recession-proof and my take away from here and and just just for context here Drew runs a nine-figure e-commerce store. He’s the CEO of auto anything and it’s primarily a Dropship Outlet and I talked about this a lot.

But you know when you’re dropshipping you pretty much don’t have your own brand because you’re selling other people’s products and during this whole covid-19 Drew found a lot of different ways to Pivot his business in order to actually grow. I think he was he ended up being up 30% after all the things that he did.

Toni:Yeah, and I think he followed one of the undercurrents of the summit was the importance of being able to Pivot and the importance and he talked about the business that he had. I think it was 2008. Where we had the recession and he didn’t pivot. And he basically I don’t know if he lost the business. I don’t exactly know what happened to that but he talked about the difference between what he did 12 years ago and what he’s doing today and how we need to be thinking about that in our own business.

And I think you know, he used a lot of really great examples about people that were able to Pivot and then I think we you know, we ourselves like you pivoted you talked about how you guys have changed your napkins up, you know, you’re doing some quarantine things and offering some things that you hadn’t offered before we know some other people that have done the same thing and I think it was just sort of sort of a wake-up call to people that if they haven’t pivoted this is the opportunity. They need to jump on it.

Steve: And his example with auto anything just goes to show that even if you don’t have your own branded products, there are ways to Pivot your business to kind of Stand Out Among the crowd.

Toni: Yep.

Steve: I don’t want to give too much away there.

The next talk was from awesome broader first time speaker at the summit longtime friend, excellent speaker. He runs the e-commerce influence podcast. He talked about how the top e-commerce businesses scale. And what you can learn from them Austin used to run an agency, and he also runs this service called brand growth experts and he interacts with lot of different companies and he recognized certain patterns that allow businesses to grow. My key takeaway from his talk actually was that all the most successful Founders always protect themselves from burnout and if you feel stuck it’s because you are doing too much not too little.

Toni: that’s interesting. That was not my takeaway.

Steve: That was not your take away? Okay

Toni: It was not my takeaway was when he talked about how most of the successful business owners did one thing really really well and that’s what they focused on.

Steve: Yes. That was my next

Toni: Yeah, if it was influencer marketing then they just killed it and influencer marketing and they didn’t worry about, you know, create a new YouTube channel or doing chat Bots or anything like that and if it was Facebook ads and they just became like Facebook ad Masters and that’s what they did and it’s not that nothing else happened. But that’s where they devoted like their time and their energy and any training that they needed, you know, they focus on that and that really stuck with me.

Steve: Yeah along those same lines Austin mentioned that his most successful clients only really used two channels to scale. Now, I know for our e-commerce store, we used one channel to hit six figures and all you need is to pretty much to hit seven or more.

Toni: Yeah, and I think what happens in this was I thought was such a great. He kicked off the conference right after your keynote and I thought it was a really great talk to start with because you attend any conference virtual in person and you hear so many awesome ideas and so many people in different fields are very very successful doing what they’re doing. But there’s no way that you as one person or a person with a small company can do all of that really well, so I think his talk was a good reminder that you only need to pick one or two things to scale.

Steve: Right. Hence, you are focusing on email. I believe right now and messenger is at the top of your list, but you’re focusing on what’s working right now for you.

Toni: Yep

Steve: and the companies that were all supportive of own marketing the sponsors for the conference. We had klaviyo who you guys have probably heard a bunch of times on this podcast already. Zippify which is Ezra Firestone’s company. He helps you build landing pages and he has this cool one click upsell for Shopify. Bigcommerce, which is one of my main shopping carts of choice because they have this really cool WordPress integration where you can actually have your blog and your store in the same domain. And Pickfoo, which is a polling company where you can get instant feedback about anything from real humans within 15 minutes.

Now, the next section of the Seller Summit was all about paid marketing and you know, I met this guy Nick Shackelford. He was introduced to me by Ezra he invited me down to his event in LA I had an amazing time and at that point, I knew that I had to have him talk and he spoke specifically about how to scale Facebook ads through hidden audiences. And this is actually one of my favorite talks at the event. He actually showed us so he spends millions of dollars per month on Facebook and he literally showed us his exact campaigns in this talk and I don’t spend nearly as much money as Nick and it was just interesting to see an account of someone whose scales so quickly. What did you think Toni?

Toni: I thought he had a great talk. I think the first part of his talk when he talked about those hidden audiences, I think for most e-commerce sellers was just like a complete brain blow right just never thought of that strategy before so I love that he brought that Up. And then I think the second part of his talk where he basically went in his face book dashboard and showed us. Everything was nuts. I don’t know anybody who’s ever done that before at a conference. So that was just amazing and people that know anything about Facebook ads were I was getting messages because I can’t believe he’s doing this.

I can’t believe you showing this is amazing. So he just had a great presentation clearly knows what he’s talking about. But most importantly he used to be a professional soccer player and I was like Googling him all after his talk. To find out more about it.

Steve: You’re not a stalker.

Toni: Yeah, I’m not a stalker. It’s totally normal fine. But yeah, he he was incredible great great presentation. And definitely if you haven’t watched it all the way through you need to watch that second half. It’s just gold.

Steve: Just to give you an idea like what I start out with the campaign just starting out I’m using I’m usually blowing like 20 to 30 dollars a day. Just just to kind of you know, hash things out. Nick, I think he’ll just put down five hundred or thousand dollars a day. Just from the start just to show you like he’s you Spending all this money on Facebook and making money.

Toni: and I think the Q&A on that was good to he did it. I think we had a little extended time with him as well because he was the last session before break and he actually did walk through some strategies for people who don’t have a thousand dollars a day to spend because that’s usually most people when they’re getting started right? They don’t have a thousand dollars a day spent on Facebook ads. So he did walk through some strategies for folks who don’t have the budget that he gets to work with.

Steve: Yeah. Basically you just take what he’s doing and just scale it down to whatever level you’re at.

Next talk was Brett Curry and he talked about mastering Google ads for Amazon and sponsored brand video ads. Now, I actually didn’t know this but Amazon actually allows you to do attribution or conversion attribution now, so basically what that means is if I send a Google ad or a Facebook ad over to Amazon, there’s a way to actually get credit for the sale and tell Facebook that it actually resulted in a conversion. This is huge. I didn’t know about this because I guess apparently this program is in beta. But Brett actually introduce that to me.

Toni: Yeah and Brett is that this is his third year at the summit and every year he gives a great presentation. But this year I feel like everything that he presented. I had no idea that you were able to do and like I was just yeah crazy

Steve: and sponsored brand video ads turns out to be like the highest converting Amazon ads that you can run right now and I wasn’t running them. So I’m going to go ahead and do that now and try it.

Toni: peaker 1: Yeah, that’s that video is on my priority to re-watch. That’s one of the first ones I want to re-watch because I feel like he covered a ton of information and it’s all stuff that I’m not doing and I had some of that I had no idea I could even do.

Steve: totally totally I mean, I guess, you know, when you run an agency you always have to be on The Cutting Edge of all the advertising platforms.

Steve: If you sell on Amazon or run any online business for that matter, you’re going to need a trademark to protect your intellectual property. Not only that but a trademark is absolutely necessary to register your brand on Amazon. Now, I used to think that any old trademark registration service would work and that could even try to register my own trademark by myself on the cheap, but I was dead wrong. Securing a trademark without a strategy in place usually results in either an outright rejection or a worthless unenforceable trademark. Now, that is why I work with Stephen Weigler and his team from Emerge counsel. They have a package service called total TM, which provides the same attention to detail and process that large law firms do at a fraction of the price. Now for me personally, I like Emerge Council because of their philosophy, their goal is to maximize IP protection while minimizing the price. So before you decide to register a trademark by yourself or file for other I could protection such as a copyright or a patent, check out Emerge counsel first and get a free consult. For more information go to emergecouncil.com and click on the Amazon sellers button and tell Steve that Steve sent you to receive a $100 discount on the total TM package for Amazon sellers. Once again, that’s emergecounsel.com over at emergecounsel.com. Now back to the show.

Next talk was Ed Ruffin, Edward Ruffin, PPC Ed he likes to be called and he talked about how to use sales funnels to maximize your Amazon advertising. What I liked about Ed’s talk is he kind of gave a more holistic view of Amazon advertising across the entire funnel and because over the years Amazon now has like a complete advertising system where you can actually Target cold customers all the way down to the bottom of the funnel with Amazon sponsored product ads.

Toni: Yeah and what I love about #PPCEd as we call him is that I’ve never seen someone get so passionate and excited about something. So boring is

Steve: I don’t think it’s boring. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Toni: All right, you know what, I mean. It’s he’s talking about even when he gets super technical. He’s still like waving his arms and very excited about everything and I feel like I like this was once again his talk was my favorite of all the talks. In Seller Summit just because I loved that big picture because he started off with the big picture and then he brought it in to like those actionable strategies that you can actually go into your Amazon account and execute today.

Steve: Totally. So I always loved watching PPC Ed it’s funny because I called him edit first things like no. No, my name is PPC Ed and I’m like sorry man. I guess I’ll call you PPC Ed from now on.

Next talk was from Ilana Wexler. She had talked the prior Year got rave reviews this year. She talked about the paid traffic puzzle and YouTube ads. So if you’re just starting out and you have no idea where to advertise a lot of had this really cool strategy in place. That will help you figure out where you should be focusing your efforts and I don’t want to give too much away, but it all starts with retargeting and then just kind of gradually expanding your audiences and she uses the analogy of filling out the different pieces of your advertising puzzle.

Toni: Yeah, and once again, she always has such a great job of explaining everything and what I love about all of our speakers, is that a lot of times I don’t know about you but I will watch a video or a webinar about how to do some of these things and they don’t actually give you this actual strategies. He’s like they don’t show you how to walk you through exactly how to do it and all of our speakers walk you through the entire process. So if you don’t have any idea how to do something you’ll be able to do it by the end of the talk.

Steve: Totally you might have to watch the talk multiple times. But yes, you will know how to do it by the end talk.

Toni: Yeah

Steve: and for the are paid advertising sponsor was seller labs and I didn’t know this before but they actually offer managed PPC Services now and we actually did a little case study and maybe I’ll put the blog post in the show notes here, but they actually took over my Amazon Advertising account and what I did is I pit what they did against what I was doing. You can read the blog post for the results. Where actually publish actual numbers, but I highly recommend these guys if you want someone to manage your Amazon PPC ads.

Now, the next section of Seller Summit was all about earned marketing, and this is actually my favorite section after all you can’t get Word of Mouth advertising, media mentions and that sort of thing unless you have a strong brand unless you have a strong Brand Story and unless you excel at customer service.

And so one talk and he kind of went first along these in this genre of talks was Michael jamming and he talked about how to use the power of Storytelling to boost your brand, fantastic talk. So he sells ladies dresses, girl’s dresses along with his wife and he showed some specific examples of you know, how he told his brand story and after seeing these video examples. It was very obvious why that stores a multimillion-dollar company today

Toni: Yeah, and he also, Examples of his customer service emails and his shipping emails and I think the all the fulfill, anything that you get is an email that normally you would just send a blanket email and this power of Storytelling is so amazing that people were actually responding and sharing the email content on shipping emails. Right? I mean, who does that? I mean that’s and it’s free advertising and he was he’s gave examples of how you know any time that they were telling a story The Organic reach of you know anything on social media or people’s just sharing that content, you know by forwarding an email to their friends is just phenomenal.

Steve: Here’s what I thought was even more impressive. So a lot of times we sell commonplace items that you don’t think might have a good story associated with it. Right? And so what Michael did and his talk is he solicited volunteers from the seller summit audience to come up and he actually helped them with their brand story because he has this nice framework to help you do it and I think it was Dana and Wesley Steyer. Presented their solar panel company and Michael turned their story into something amazing.

Toni: Yeah, so we had we actually got three people to volunteer. We had Dana and then we had Dale he came on to talk about some of his cleaning products. And then Jesse came on to talk about his he has some athlete or some skin products, I think but yeah in each case Michael was able to because he talks about like what do you selling? And then what are you really selling?

Steve: Right.

Toni: And so Dana Michelle was saying they sell those solar kids, but what they’re really selling or the DIY solar kit. Kids, but what they’re really selling is freedom, right because they’re for those small houses and you know, he was able to just like in what two minutes he was able to craft like this whole pitch for them. It was pretty incredible.

Steve: It sounded really good to me. Like it just framed the product. I mean, I wasn’t even thinking about the product anymore. Actually. I was thinking about the message behind the product by the end

Toni: Yeah

Steve: definitely don’t think

Toni: yeah. That was what that he I love that. I love that talk like that was probably my favorite talk just because I love I mean That’s you know, that’s what I like to do. Anyways, of course, it’s in my wheelhouse but I love the storytelling component and it’s cool to see that it’s not just like oh that’s cool to tell funny to be funny or to tell compelling stories that actually can have an impact on your business.

Steve: and then next up. We had Eric Bandholtz of beardbrand longtime friend. I’ve known this guy forever. He taught us the secrets to YouTube marketing because YouTube marketing actually drives 40 percent of his sales and I you guys know I’ve been working on my YouTube channel for the last couple months and I I learned a lot from his talk.

Toni: Yeah, Eric does a great job. He actually went into his YouTube analytics showed how basically how they strategize how they make decisions based on what types of videos to film sort of the benchmarks for them. And I thought that was really interesting because usually most people are not going to go into their analytics and show you anything but he was willing to do that and basically use his own site and he actually has three channels but use those three channels as examples for how to basically Run YouTube marketing for your own businesses.

Steve: And specifically for physical products.

Toni: Yep.

Steve: Yeah next up. We had Derek Halpern and this is the one that he talked I think for an hour and 45 minutes. So the title of his talk was 250,000 orders in two years how to Captivate customers with story and you know, even though the total was similar to Michael’s title. The content was actually a whole lot different but the theme was very similar. You got to think of some underlying message behind your products so that people Fall in love with your message and your brand.

Toni: Yeah, and he even talked about how they were able to what did they do? I did something on Black Friday I don’t remember the exact numbers where they didn’t have to Discount anything but yet they still got a huge increase in sales because of another strategy that they took something completely different which I thought was pretty genius. And if you’ve ever if you’ve ever heard Derek speak you will wake up when he starts talking. He does not pull any punches. He’s very animated and he is a straight shooter. He does not mess around when it comes to talking about is business and what they’ve done to grow it.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I’ve known Derek for a long time. I like that. He’s just blunt. I mean very blunt and very open like if you ask him a question, he will answer it with brutal honesty. I guess that’s the best way to put it.

Toni: but I you know people really it was it was a great way to end he ended the summit. He was our last speaker and it was a great way to end it because I think people sometimes well, what did he even said? Something about himself. I don’t know what it was. He doesn’t sugarcoat anything and I think that that was really good because I think at the end of the day a lot of times people just need to hear it straight right and hear what worked what didn’t and be able to just be told that really bluntly.

As opposed to sort of I think a lot of times you go to these events or you go to sessions and it’s like everything is wonderful and perfect and he talked about the things that didn’t work and did and I think that’s important for people to hear.

Steve: Oh, yeah, totally he talked about the good and the bad. And the sponsor on this track was Gorgias. Which is the tool that both Toni and I use to manage all the customer service for all of our businesses because you can track all of your social media channels all in one place and it pulls up all your orders on your Ecommerce store and you can reply to common questions like where the heck is my order all in one click. And Of course the Seller Summit would not be the same without having some Amazon talks.

So the first Amazon talk we had was from Brad Moss the former head of Seller Central and he talked about what was working on Amazon in 2020 and something that I was really surprised at and again, this is a guy who specializes in Amazon sales. He was telling everyone to start selling off of Amazon and the importance of building your own brand.

Toni: Yes, and it was funny because he got started and I had to run out of the room and I come back and you’ve messed you messaged me and said he’s talking about selling off Amazon.

Steve: Haha Yeah

Toni: Like wait, this is an Amazon talk what’s going on?

Steve: I know

Toni: but he’s you know, he’s such a he’s been to Seller Summit I think this would be his what third or fourth time. Always a fan favorite because one you know, he always gives a great talk on and he’s always up to date on what’s going on with Amazon and I think to hear from an am someone former had to sell some Seller Central to say like hey, this is what Amazon’s doing. And he was one I think he was the one talking about Amazon grabbing that data, right?

He talked about that in his talk as well for him to say. Hey, you need to be thinking about this brand creation as opposed to just selling, you know, 200SKUs. Completely independent of each other.

Steve: Yeah.

Toni: I think that was powerful for people because he’s someone That is not just speculating. He actually has pretty good knowledge of what’s going on.

Steve: He does and just the fact that he’s telling everyone to sell outside of Amazon now just just says something about where ecommerce is going.

Toni: Yeah

Steve: Next up we had Greg Merser on how to get Amazon reviews in 2020 and there’s actually one tactic that I did not know about that was free. And that was really shocking. I’m definitely going to take advantage of that.

Toni: Yeah. I didn’t know about that either actually most of the people in the chat didn’t I think that was a bombshell for a lot of people

Steve: They were like what I thought you had to pay two thousand dollars to do that. And yeah, I mean obviously Greg would know this because he runs jungle Scout but there’s a lot of hidden tips that he shared in this talk and I’m definitely going to be implementing them

Toni: and I have to say one of the like side highlights of this talk was that if you know Greg, you know, he’s very white hat with the Amazon. He does everything above board. He really is, you know, he likes to give people really solid advice and there were a couple questions that were definitely not white hat. Right? in the chat and he said, you know, he said he made a comment about it and like hey, I can’t really endorse that or recommend that because it’s not you know, and then you started putting on the ticker black hat tips for this entire.

It does to poor Greg like literally like the nicest guy always like doing the right thing and then the rest of the time it was all like black hat tips from Greg Mercer. Which is like the cool part about the virtual event because you could not have been trolling him while he was on stage.

Steve: So I can only do that because we’re friends but I definitely wouldn’t have done that for a total stranger or maybe I would have but more subtly.

Toni: Yeah, not not quite as obvious as you did there where you created a banner on his screen.

Steve: So the Amazon sponsors for the event was Getida. Getida is a service that helps you get reimbursed. It’s for Amazon Amazon loses your inventory all the time. And basically they’re they’re losing your money all the time and Getida helps you get reimbursements back. And one thing that was really cool was Getida. I offered four hundred dollars in free reimbursements which basically covered the cost of the event.

And we also had product labs. This is Brad Mosses’ company he offers Consulting and of course Jungle Scout, which is Greg’s company and jungle Scout has really come a long way over the years. I mean, they’ve been a longtime sponsor. They now pretty much do everything related to Amazon all under the same tool at one low price.

All right, next up we talked about how Chinese people are taking over Amazon and Over that happens, there’s gonna be lots of counterfeits. And so we had Steven Wiggler our attorney Toni I use him and he talked about a low-cost strategy to protect against Chinese knock-offs. This was a huge hit because apparently a lot of people are getting knocked off and just a quick note patents are not the answer.

Toni: and I loved he mapped out this exact strategy and you could take it and implement it and you don’t even need an attorney to do it, which I liked. I mean, he basically told you how you could do it without Out, you know, you only spend a couple hundred dollars. I think at the end of the day, but I have to say the funniest part about his talk was that he used an illustration of a straw hat that was his product that he came on when he signed on the video for you and I he was wearing this like gardening hat.

Steve: Oh Yeah

Toni: right? and you and I were both like why is he wearing a gardening hat? Like this doesn’t make any sense and then he ended up using it. He actually took the hat and basically dissected it about all the different parts of it that you can use to it. Basically using as your product and how you could protect it and all these different ways. We use it as a really cool illustration so that people could understand there’s multiple ways to protect your property your photos all that stuff.

Steve: definitely got my attention because I was like, why are you wearing that hat and then turns out it was part of the presentation

Toni: thank goodness

Steve: and Steven, why go to runs emerge counsel. He offers trademark services and IP protection services, so you can just send them an email go to their website. Just tell him I sent you and I’m sure he’ll give you a discount of some sort.

Toni: And honestly, I have to tell you like I know we’re talking about our virtual event, but he’s a reason to come to the physical Seller Summit because he will talk you will give you legal advice and talk to you all day long at his table for free.

Steve: Yes. I don’t know any lawyers that do that. I know like this lawyer that I talked to like even talking to on the phone. I got a bill in the mail and I was I was a little annoyed but Steven will talk to you for free.

Next section of talks were on improving efficiency of your store. And the first person we had up was Elizabeth Mercer and she talked About understanding the big picture when managing your supply chain. Now Liz sells over sized products you sells furniture on Amazon. And as you know storing large items on Amazon is really expensive. So you have to make sure that you have your supply chain down path. I guess one of my key takeaways is I didn’t realize how much Elizabeth communicates with their vendor oftentimes people don’t communicate with their vendor until it’s too late when something goes wrong and by that time it is really too late. I don’t know what were some of your takeaways with this first one.

Toni: Well first of all I was yeah, that was my number one take away to with it. I don’t do half of this.

Steve: Yes

Toni: when she and in like some of the communication and her processes that she talked about. I was like, I don’t do any of this and no wonder you know, things are probably not as efficient as they could be the second thing that I was just I thought was amazing was that no matter what the there was a ton of questions on this talk as well and she basically answered every question even if it wasn’t even if I don’t think she necessarily was working in that area. She’s so knowledgeable on this that she basically talked everything supply chain, which was pretty impressive.

Steve: I mean, I think that was her major and I would argue that the Q&A section was just as good as the actual Talk itself.

Toni: Yeah, I especially with this one because there were so many questions on this one. I think that the QA was as good as the presentation.

Steve: Yeah next up. We had a fan favorite Mike Jackness and he talked about how he created this awesome team in the Philippines to manage operations. And what I liked about his talk is he actually brought in the person who runs his Philippines office to come give a talk as well.

Toni: What I what I thought was great about this is we’ve realized that Mike doesn’t do anything anymore. Yes. It’s all his Filipino team.

Steve: He literally does nothing and actually Mike slides were really impactful because he talked about the cost savings and if he had hired everyone in the US on his team, he would not be making any profit whatsoever. And in fact, I think he would be losing like 20%.

Toni: Yeah. And what I loved about Mike’s talk is that he brought his manager on and she basically explained everything from like from the cultural side of the Philippines. So and I think that’s one of the reasons why people when they sometimes hire overseas, it’s not successful because they don’t understand that there are definitely some cultural differences. And so she talked a lot about that in her talk. She also talked about how to build a company culture overseas, which I thought was really great.

Because you and I both have overseas VAs and so for me just take I took away a lot of there’s things that I can do better with communicating with my VA, and there’s things that I can do to make her job easier because I’m not always thinking about the differences. The other thing that I really liked about this is they really gotten into specifics about pay for overseas VAs like how you know, everything from vacation and sick, you know, sick leave and things like that like those types of policies because I think when you hire in the US there’s basically some like understood rules or depending on what state you live in you know, there’s sometimes, you know, there’s minimum wage laws and things like that.

Overseas, It’s gets kind of murky, especially if not using an agency and so I love that they broke that down and talked about what they did to help build a really loyal team.

Steve: Yeah, actually she outlined her exact process for hiring as well, which I thought was pretty cool because it’s it’s a little different due to the cultural differences.

Next up. We had Scotty V on how to get massive results in your business and do what truly matters and you know, Scott he is a ball of fire when he has the mic and I don’t know maybe it was It after listened to his talk. You said you had problems sleeping.

Toni: I did I could not fall asleep that night. I think he ended with his talking about what 9:15 maybe and I think I didn’t fall asleep till about 12, maybe midnight or maybe later because I just everything that he was talking about was still swollen in my head. Plus. He’s so high energy. It just gets you excited and amped up

Steve: totally and you know, you come out of seller someone with a bunch of different tactics, and I thought Scott stalk was important on kind of prioritizing and focusing your efforts.

Toni: and what I loved about Scott’s talk was that he actually talked a lot about the past year of his own life and how he basically had all these things going on in 2019 and he got a little bit burn out right? And so he talked about having to sort of come back and realize like he needed to start prioritizing you start focusing on and he used his own life as an example. And I think a lot of people someone like Scott right?

He’s you know in the Limelight. He’s got a very popular podcast got a very active Facebook group people think that his life is amazing all the time, right because he’s high energy, you know, but I think it’s good for people to see. Like hey, everybody’s going through the same struggles. Everybody gets burnout everybody sometimes bites off more than they can chew and here’s how you can deal with it. And in these tactics work, you know.

Steve: they absolutely do and they’re not just tactics. I mean, these are things that you really have to just sit down and evaluate from time to time.

Toni: Yeah tactic wasn’t the right word, but I couldn’t think of the right. How do you how do you how do you manage your life with a tactic? I don’t know, you know.

Steve: The last up we had Charles Mullins of quitelight and he taught us how to boost the value of your business with math and logic. Now, if you run a business right now, there’s some things that you really have to consider. Even if you don’t plan on selling your business anytime soon. These are things that you have to consider ahead of time because they increase the value of your business and Charles’s talk also allowed you to kind of figure out how much your business is actually worth in the current environment, which I thought was very valuable.

Toni: Yeah. I really like that talk one of the things that stood out to me was has he talked about all these things that you need to be doing in your business if you’re thinking about selling but then he talked about the one thing that you didn’t want to do was I don’t remember the, I used the wrong terminology, but he talked about you don’t want to make it too polished on the outside because you want people to see opportunity in your business.

And that was something interesting because it to me it’s kind of like when you sell a house or you want, you know, you put your best foot forward, right you clean everything up and hide all the bad stuff, but in reality like some of that stuff actually works, too. Advantage because buyers want to see an opportunity when they’re looking to purchase a business.

Steve: Yeah. Absolutely. It’s kind of like when you buy your fixer, I think all of your houses have been fixers and you’ve made a lot of money doing this right same philosophy. Kind of?

Toni: Yeah, but in your mind you like in my mind though, and I’m not you know, I’m not thinking about selling a business right now, but I you know, if I was going to I would think oh, I want everything to be perfect. Right? I want the website to look better. I want this to be better. But at the same time there’s actually things that are way more important when you want to sell your business, so you should be focusing on other than these externals because the external might actually hurt you.

Steve: Yeah, and then there’s also the ad backs. I mean there’s a ton of information in Charles’s talk.

Toni: Yeah, there’s some crazy spreadsheets.

Steve: And we were proud to have Quietlight as the premium sponsor the Platinum sponsor this year. So Quitelight. I’ve known Joe and Chuck for gotten many years and our friend Mike Jackness has sold his business who QuietLight. We really trust these guys. So if you’re interested in buying and selling a business definitely look towards Quiet Light brokerage.

And we talked about, you know, hiring a Filipino team both Tony and I we actually used Intelligencia to find our VAs over in the Philippines. What’s nice about them is they actually have an office that has power and internet and the Filipino employees actually go into the office do the work. So there’s never any power outages or any sort of thing. And you also don’t have to deal about you don’t have to deal with benefits or that sort of thing because they handle everything for you.

Toni: They also pre-screen all of your applicant. So if you’re looking for someone with a specific skill set they will actually pre-screen people and that way you’re not waiting through, you know hundreds of applications. I know I’ve used other services that are just you know, log on to a website and put out a job application and you know, we’ve had to wait through tons of people but they actually narrow it down for you based on information you give them so it’s really helpful.

Steve: Yeah highly recommended. The next sponsor was SkuVault. So if you are selling on multiple channels like eBay, Amazon as well as your own site, you’re going to need a central location to store all that information into manage your inventory and that’s what SkuVault does. Recommended our longtime friend over at RPC Logistics Pam Kale, if you need Freight forwarding Services always recommend Pam choose great. She’s a great people person. She’ll take care of you and she’ll do it with a smile.

And then finally there was Brex and Brex is actually really important for e-commerce because they offer this card that lets you float money 60 days instead of 30 days without any interest. So instead of trying to take out a loan for your inventory. You can just put it on the Brex card. Or did I miss any talks Toni? I think that’s it, right?

Toni: I don’t know it feels like a lot of talk. So yeah, I think we got them all I’m looking through your slides right now. I think we’re good.

Steve: Yeah, I mean like I said before I hope this was an indication with this podcast episode. I thought the content this year was amazing and I don’t know exactly why that is because you know, we did have a lot of the similar speakers as prior years, but the content that, maybe was the live QA or maybe it was the extended QA but I got a lot out of these talks more so than any other year.

Toni: I agree. This is the first year that you and I have actually been able to go to all the talks.

Steve: That’s correct. Usually we’re in separate rooms because we do double track but this year we did everything in single track.

Toni: Yeah, so I think that was another thing as we got to hear everything live which typically only one of us hears it live and the other persons in the other room. So I think that was a big factor as well and I think the new speakers that we added this year just really were awesome like awesome additions to our Seller Summit lineup.

Steve: So Tony can people still access these recordings?

Steve: Absolutely. You can actually still pretty Just a virtual pass and the virtual pass comes with every session including our keynote and all the Q&A. So all the extended QA there’s very little editing done this year because it was all virtual. So all that QA is on the virtual passes. You hear us reading the question. So everything’s really clear. I know sometimes it’s not always clear when you’re actually in a venue.

So Steve and I are reading those questions out this you get the extended QA plus all the PDFs from the speaker’s all their presentation. So you get to get a good look at those slides and we are having those for sale. I don’t know. I think what till like June 30th?

Steve: I think so. We typically close it off after a while. Yeah, June 30 is sounds like a good date as you can tell we’re prepared to announce this date because I didn’t know that Tony was going to throw that date out, but that sounds good.

Toni: Well, I think we need to you know, you we can’t keep these forever for sale because then we have to move on to 2021. Right? And we’ve got to focus on that. And so I think and also these talks are super relevant now but in a couple of years some of these strategies will change so we don’t like to keep these sessions on sale forever. So you got to get them now

Steve: and stay tuned I guess for the 2021 announcement, which I believe we should have in the next couple of weeks or so.

Toni: Hopefully still trying to negotiate some things some details. So we want to get that to everybody as soon as possible. But for now you can enjoy, how many sessions is this 18, 19 sessions?

Steve: Actually there was a bonus section that session that I forgot to talk about which is from Getida. Getida actually record like we didn’t have it on the schedule, but they recorded a special session on. Actually how to save money with your Amazon business and it kind of goes into depth about all the I knowhow to phrases but all the different ways that Amazon can screw you and how to get your money back basically. It was very valuable.

Toni: Yeah, so we actually joked that the cool thing about this is you can binge watch the Seller Summit in a weekend. So it’s basically taking the taking over Netflix for a weekend. You can binge watch all the sudden.

Steve: Yeah you can pretend It’s like Tiger King and watch all seven episodes all at once except in this case would be 19 episodes.

Toni: I will be regretful that I’m saying this but I feel like Seller Summit might be slightly more valuable.

Steve: just slightly more valuable man. This woman has been talking about Tiger King for like the last month ever, since it came out, good Lord.

Toni: Exactly. No, I plan. That’s my goal. I plan I have a vacation coming up and I plan on watching a lot of these talks while I’m on vacation just because I feel like with most of them. There’s so many nuggets in there that you can’t just watch them once.

Steve: And I plan on watching these all over again as I am sheltered in place for the next couple months and with that Toni thanks for coming on again. It was a pleasure.

Toni: Thanks for having me.

Steve: Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now, you can access all the Sellers Summit 2020 videos over at Sellersummit.com until July after which we will close it down forever. For more information about this episode go to mywifequitherjob.com/ episode305.

And once again, I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode, Klaviyo is my email marketing platform of choice for e-commerce merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned cart sequence a post purchase flow or win back campaign. Basically, all these sequences that will make you money on autopilot. So head on over to mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo. Once again, That’s mywifequitherjob.com/klaviyo.

Now I talked about how I use these tools in my blog and if you’re interested in starting your own e-commerce store heading over to mywifequitherjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini-course just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com

I Need Your Help

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304: Dropshipping – Everything You Need To Know With Steve Chou

304: Dropshipping - Everything You Need To Know With Steve Chou

Most people try to open up a dropshipped store expecting it to be easy, but in reality, there’s a lot more to it than you think.

The reason I created this episode is because I’m constantly asked about dropshipping and decided to document my thoughts in audio once and for all.

In this episode, you’ll learn the pros and cons of dropshipping, why it’s not as simple and easy as you think, and the best way to succeed with a dropship online store.

What You’ll Learn

  • What is dropshipping?
  • The pros and cons of dropshipping
  • How to get started in dropshipping
  • How much money can you make dropshipping

Other Resources And Books

Sponsors

Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
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EmergeCounsel.com – EmergeCounsel is the service I use for trademarks and to get advice on any issue related to intellectual property protection. Click here and get $100 OFF by mentioning the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast.
Emerge Counsel

SellersSummit.com – The ultimate ecommerce learning conference! Unlike other events that focus on inspirational stories and high level BS, the Sellers Summit is a curriculum based conference where you will leave with practical and actionable strategies specifically for an ecommerce business. Click here and get your ticket now before it sells out.Sellers Summit

Transcript

I Need Your Help

If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please support me with an iTunes review. It's easy and takes 1 minute! Just click here to head to iTunes and leave an honest rating and review of the podcast. Every review helps!
 

Ready To Get Serious About Starting An Online Business?


If you are really considering starting your own online business, then you have to check out my free mini course on How To Create A Niche Online Store In 5 Easy Steps.

In this 6 day mini course, I reveal the steps that my wife and I took to earn 100 thousand dollars in the span of just a year. Best of all, it's absolutely free!