Audio

636: Why Smaller Creators Are Winning Bigger Than Ever In 2026

636: Why Smaller Creators Are Winning Bigger Than Ever In 2026

In this episode, Toni and I have a really honest conversation about where content creation is headed in 2026 and what it genuinely takes to stand out when everyone and their mother is making videos.

We talk about why the fundamentals of great content have never mattered more than they do right now, even with all the AI tools flooding the space with noise. So whether you are just starting out or have been at it for years, I think you will walk away with a much clearer picture of what it takes.

Enjoy the episode!

What You’ll Learn

  • Why the fundamentals of great content matter more than ever in a world flooded with AI-generated noise
  • What it genuinely takes to stand out as a creator in 2026, no matter where you are in your journey
  • An honest look at where content creation is headed and how to position yourself ahead of the curve

Sponsors

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, Tony and I have a really honest conversation about where content creation is headed in 2026 and what it generally takes to stand out when everyone and their mother is making videos. We talk about why the fundamentals of great content have never mattered more than they do right now, even with all the AI tools flooding the space with noise. So whether you’re just starting out,

00:26
or if you’ve been at it for years, I think you’ll walk away with a much clearer picture of what it takes. But before we begin, I just wanted to take a second to mention that I have a free e-commerce community that I’m incredibly proud of and would love for you to be a part of. It is a place where real sellers come together to share wins, troubleshoot problems, and support each other through the ups and downs of building an online business. You can join completely free over at mywifequitterjob.com slash community, and I would love to see you there.

00:53
Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash community. Now on to the show.

01:04
Welcome back to the My Wife, Her Job podcast. Today we’re going to talk about content creation, which is the other side of my business where I create YouTube videos, podcasts, and that sort of thing. And it’s all kind of related to e-commerce as well. So we’ll touch a little bit on both topics today. And I know, Tony, you’ve been, you started a YouTube channel. You’ve helped start another YouTube channel that’s doing really well. uh What are your views right now just on content creation for 2026? ah

01:33
I was just complaining to you before we started recording about AI and content creation and how I don’t think it’s being done very well. But that’s true for everybody. I think some people are doing a great job. ah But yeah, I feel like because of AI, everybody can create content now, right? I think about our, actually this is good example, our friend Johnny, who’s an profitable audience, has a lawn care company. And he’s been making lawn care videos for…

02:02
the past, I think it’s like been a year or 18 months. And he said it’s really like taken off, right? He’s getting traction. uh But people like Johnny and I don’t think actually Johnny’s using a whole lot of AI in his video content creation. He’s not, I don’t think. No. But I would say people like him, people who have businesses where, you know, five years ago, content creation would have been basically impossible without hiring like a full time content creator. Now those types of brands.

02:31
can actually do a lot of this with AI and put out, I mean, honestly, endless amounts of content, right? There’s no limit. Yeah, so for me, for this year at least, 2026, I’m excited and I’m a little worried at the same time. We can start with like the positives. I feel like uh creators are actually becoming like mainstream entertainment. Like, you know, it’s funny, I was chatting with uh

03:01
one of my friends and he was like, Oh yeah, I was watching CNN the other day. I’m like, what you watch CNN? He’s like, Yeah, I just kind of leave the TV on on cable. I was like, you have cable. But seriously, like CNN is is gone down. I’m surprised they’re still up. I mean, their viewership is so low. uh Everyone’s just getting their content now from like

03:27
short form, TikTok, YouTube and whatnot. And it’s reflected in some of the deals that have been going on. Netflix, Hulu, they’re all signing creators. I think I just watched Dude Perfect do a partnership with the show also, where they turn it into this series. So I think that’s a huge positive as a content creator today. In theory, all these independents are

03:55
getting more views than traditional media are today. Yeah. And you see that. um And I don’t you know, we do not get political here, but I think a really good example of the impact of this was Joe Rogan. Right. uh So he’s he’s had a podcast for a bit, but his podcast is huge and has, you know, over time. I don’t want to say it’s mainstream, but it’s basically a mainstream commodity. Right.

04:22
Because of the guests that he gets on, right? So he gets I mean he had He’s had multiple I want to say that everyone on yeah But even to the president, know of the United States, right? It has been on the podcast But I think if you look back to that interview he did during the election Like that became a very mainstream piece of content. That was I would say equivalent

04:47
to like a CNN interview. Oh, way more than CNN. Well, equivalent in like authority level, not reach leaps and bounds above. like in the bucket of like, does this hold weight and credibility? Absolutely. Right. Whether or not you agree with any of it, it’s we’re just talking about the numbers here. And so I think when you look at that sort of situation and then other people.

05:13
that are doing the same types of things, right? Another person that’s gotten huge from short form and content is, and I don’t even know what this person actually does is Alex Earle. I don’t know if you know who she is. I don’t know who she is. She’s a content creator, but she ended up on Dancing with the Stars. um She was linked to Tom Brady, but once again, her stuff is getting mainstream um and is at the same level of credibility as someone who would be a

05:41
a legitimate TV star or um someone in the movies, right? So these content creators who back in, know, back in, we always say back in the day, right? You know, you’re like, well, you’re Twitter famous, right? Like you were on Twitter in 2010 and you had 200,000 followers. Well, now people who are Twitter famous actually can translate that into, you know, mainstream media at this point.

06:09
Yeah, I think, I guess what we’re both trying to say is it seems like the industry is much more mature than it was before. Like it’s well accepted that you’re a creator and that you do this for a living. The flip side and what I’m primarily worried about is early we started with the abundance factor. Like everyone and their mother can create content and it’s easier than ever to create content with the help of AI. And I…

06:39
I want to say a couple months ago, I was chatting with someone who has, who has like five automated AI channels that are generating tens of thousand dollars a month, almost on autopilot. Like he has these scripts that generate the script, pull in images and create these, uh, these long form YouTube style videos, which are, which are more or less screen shares and with narration. And that it’s working.

07:06
which basically means that people actually want to watch this. And the same goes with short form, like the TikToks and whatnot. People are just kind of finding ways to automate this sort of content creation, which in turn dilutes all the other content that people are creating by hand. And so that worries me a little bit. Like everyone has access to high quality tools now.

07:32
Which I think is a plus and a negative, right? Like I think it’s great that there are so many really fantastic tools that are not necessarily free, but at a price point that they’re affordable for anybody to get started. And that’s one of the things that we talk about a lot, right? Is that if you wanna create content, whether it be as a compliment to a brand that you already have, or you wanna just become a straight up content creator, uh you know, we talk about a teleprompter five, maybe five, 10 years ago was like,

08:01
three, 400 bucks, right? Now you can get one for almost nothing. A lot of the things that you needed to get started before are now very, very inexpensive or free. The problem is, is that I think it, we talked about this like two years ago. I think it was Spencer Hawes who did that whole experiment with creating an AI blog and all the articles were written by AI. Do Oh yes, yes. He did like 900 and some articles. I don’t know, it was a lot.

08:30
And he got he ranked right with SEO. But then all of a sudden that crashed. Right. Yeah. Not effective. So I feel like the same exact thing is going to happen here. It’s still new enough to where people are watching this automated content. Right. They are interested in it. But I think eventually we’re going to see the same thing that happens with this every time is that unless you have something new, interesting, an angle, a story.

08:59
it’s not gonna sustain, this isn’t a sustainable business for 15 years. Well, okay, let’s take the flip side of that. Let’s talk about just people using avatars of themselves even, right? And putting out good scripts and pumping out content. I’m looking through my TikTok feed, sometimes I don’t mind if it’s generated by AI, if it’s entertaining, right? And so let’s like not talk about the slop, let’s just talk about the good stuff.

09:27
Right? Yeah. Of which there is a lot. Yeah. There’s too much good content out there now. Almost in my opinion. Right. And for me, as I doom scroll on TikTok sometimes, like I finish a session and I don’t even remember who I looked at. Yeah. For the best part. That’s definitely true. So I guess what I’m trying to say is in order to stand out today, like you really have to do something memorable or unique.

09:56
or unique to yourself in order to stand out. Which honestly, that’s always been the case.

10:05
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

10:34
And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves. So my advisor told me what needed to change. It was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light

11:03
will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. It’s always been the case, but I feel like it’s even more important. So for example, like you were just talking about Rogan during the interview based podcast. I probably would not start an interview based podcast today. No. Right? Cause like they’re a diamond dozen. I think we talked about this in the last time we recorded.

11:31
When everyone and their mother wants to start a podcast, something is wrong. Like we’ve reached peak podcast. Yeah. Right. Which. But if you have. Yes, I would say this is not the time to start a podcast unless you have something that is so unique and different that you think it can get traction. Here’s the problem. This reminds me of I don’t know. I guess American Idol is starting back up and it’s 400 season or whatever.

11:59
is that there’s always those people that get on American Idol and they are not the best singer. But you realize that their whole life, people told them they were a good singer, right? Like their mom and their aunt and, know, and then they get up there and they’re they’re not that great. Right. They’re not terrible. They’re probably better than you or I. But they’re not they’re not like the level to make it as a singer today. Right. I feel like that happens a lot with content creation where like your friends tell you that’s a good idea.

12:27
Right? Or, you know, your mom likes it and then it’s like, oh, I should start a podcast because my mom thinks this is so interesting. Like, you can’t let your mom be the judge of, you know, whether you decide to do something or not. It has to be something where there’s like at least some proven level of interest before you do it because anyone can do it. And there’s so much out there right now. Yeah. So, you know, back in the day,

12:56
maybe three or four years ago, like you could probably just pick up a camera and just start creating like tutorial content. This is why it’s hitting me particularly. Like I feel like that was my bread and butter a couple years ago, right? Just come out and just teach something, right? But anytime you just teach something now, it’s, we talked about in the last episode we recorded where there’s this like summary button now, right? On all content. And so,

13:24
If you’re just teaching something, why should someone sit through your lesson? Why not just hit the summarize button? Right? Unless there’s a reason for them to watch you, which basically means that I need to step up my game now to go beyond the summarize button, right? Maybe be entertaining, maybe use more visuals that can’t be summarized. Otherwise, I see that trend continuing.

13:54
I agree, my only thought on that is not everybody uh can learn by reading. For me, I would much rather read something than watch a video. Unless it’s how to take apart a carburetor or something, then I want to watch the video. um But I do think that there will always be people who want to learn a certain way. Some people want to listen auditory, some people want to have it visually, some people want to take apart

14:23
whatever with the other person. I do think that, one, I do think you should up your game, but two, I do think that having all these different mediums is good, right? Especially for people who learn differently. However, with the summary button and the ability for people to dump a transcript into AI and get all that information, like you definitely need to have things in your content that make that less appealing.

14:50
to people, right? Like, well, I could summarize it, but then I’m gonna miss out on x, y, z.

14:57
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15:26
just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. Yeah, exactly. I mean, there’s the challenge. Yeah. Because I just looking at my own habits, I don’t even listen to podcasts anymore. Like unless I’m running, right? And then you just get the transcript of it. I literally just get the transcript feed into AI and say, hey, just give me the top points of this. Like I don’t have time to listen to this like three hour thing.

15:55
Okay, but I think that yes, but there are still a lot of people who have time where they can’t read, right? They’re in the car, they’re driving, they’re walking their dogs. was talking to a friend yesterday and she’s like, oh, I listen to all my podcasts when I take the dogs out, right? And so she, so I, and you know, my son listens to podcasts all day long at work, right? Cause he can have an earphone in. um So I do think there’s still, I’m not saying to start a podcast by any means, but I’m saying that like there’s still people that will listen to it. um

16:25
But yeah, for me, I’m going to summarize it. I mean, I’m not I’m not saying like this is going to destroy content creation. I’m just saying it’s a trend that will probably increase over time, because at least on YouTube, they made it really easy with that button like the Gemini button. Right. uh But on the flip side, what’s good about content creation today is that the number of subscribers does not matter whatsoever. Yeah.

16:55
Right? So I guess that’s one positive that’s been happening for several years now, is you can literally pick up your camera or your phone or whatever, create a piece of content, and instantly get hundreds of thousands, even millions of views just based on the merit of the content itself. Well, we saw that with, we haven’t talked about Kevin in a bit. Oh, yes. We saw that with Kevin who, you know, obviously he’s done a great job of consistently creating content, but he created a video, I think it was like on Windows 10 or something.

17:25
I’m not a Windows user so I’ll probably mess this up. ah basically it was like he created this video that hit on a topic that everyone was concerned about in that moment. And so even though at that point he had five or six thousand subscribers, basically overnight quadrupled his subscriber number and then of course has now taken off because of the video because more eyeballs got on it. So if you have the right topic, I mean we talked about my son last week.

17:53
He had zero subscribers and no clout to push people anywhere. Instagram liked the content, right? Pushed it out. And he has a hundred and some thousand subscribers in 30 days, which is absolutely not normal. I want to put that out there. But it just shows you if the idea works, right? If it’s clever or if it’s interesting enough, that can happen no matter how many followers you’re starting out with.

18:22
So what’s nice about Kevin is he’s become like this authority on windows, right? And I think about some of the people or some of the videos that I’ve seen have gone viral. And I mentioned earlier, like sometimes I go through a session where I don’t remember anything that I’ve watched, right? It’s pretty easy to get views these days. You just do something off the wall or stupid, right? To get views, but you’re not gonna get any uh

18:52
You’re not going to get any influence from that type of video. Another really good example of this is NerdWallet. Yep. Right. So they’ve I mean, they’ve been around for a very long time, I think probably as long as you and I have probably longer longer. But whenever I I’ve you know, I’m like I’m into the travel hacking and the points and all that stuff. And so when I hear about, you know, some good deal, right, like, oh, get this credit card, you’re going to get X amount of thousands.

19:21
Points whatever I always cross check it with nerd wallet like I always go to nerd wallet read their reviews And I never will not do that right like until until they have like controversy or something obviously But like they have created such an authority with me right like and with millions of other people too I’m not the only one they like advertise the Super Bowl I think um But you know if you like that’s what Kevin’s done with Microsoft right like I’m not getting a credit card until I vet it with nerd wall

19:51
because I trust them completely to provide me with accurate information. I’m absolutely not going to go on TikTok and take a credit card recommendation without checking it out. So I think Kevin’s done this with Microsoft. People do this with all sorts of things, right? um And so I think if you can do that as a content creator, become the absolute authority, which I think is then why like niching down becomes really important.

20:19
Yeah, I guess my point in saying all that was focus less on the views per se and more on the influence factor that you have. Yeah. Because there’s a lot of people that just put out content just to get the views. Yes. But views in itself is not a good measure of your impact on whatever you do. So who did I watch recently? I want to say it was Ed.

20:48
From photo booth. I’m sure some of you guys listening have heard of him, but he’s he’s a pretty big YouTube authority and He actually shut down one of his channels Because he was attracting the wrong sort of people Mm-hmm, and when he focused he started a completely new channel focusing on content for YouTube creators for business and It’s good. It’s getting a fraction of the views as his other channel, but he’s making something like five times more money

21:18
Because the people he is attracting are his ideal customer and they’re willing to open up their wallets. Okay. But you, I see you fall into this trap all the time. Oh, I do. Because it’s you, right? I love the views. Yeah. So you’ll, so I remember this was a couple of years ago. You put out a video on like textile importing or tariffs or I don’t know. was like, it was about fabric. Do you remember this? Maybe it wasn’t about fabric. I thought it was about textiles.

21:48
I think I put out a couple things on tariffs. This was pre-tariff. This was like you put out something on sourcing or whatever and then you got all the it went like super viral and then you started making other videos in the similar vein but then like very quickly realized that all those videos didn’t do anything to like drive email signups or they do you remember what I’m talking about? was your time at Tmoo. Tmoo. Okay. Yeah.

22:13
I did a video on Tmoo which has gotten like 2.2 million views or something crazy like that. And those people were they’re basically deal seekers. Yes, are the worst people to get. But like how do you as a content creator? Because I mean, everyone, no matter what people say, I don’t even care. We hear it from Kellan. We hear it from Kevin. We hear it from everybody.

22:42
when you put that video out and it doesn’t do well, like in the first, know, whatever your time frame is, 24 hours, like you’re immediately second guessing everything. Like Kevin said, I have a bad weekend or Kellen said that if it doesn’t do well, because he releases on Friday, he has a bad weekend. I mean, we can talk about this because I literally just put out a video where it didn’t do well, like literally yesterday, in fact. And so this morning, what I did is I changed up the thumbnails.

23:11
split test titles and whatnot. And yeah, it’s going to be like a long week for me because I know my next video is not going to come out till next Tuesday. Yeah. So yeah, 100 percent relate to Kellen. But then you put out a video and it does really well. Right. It takes off. You get, you know, million views or something. But it’s not the right video. Right. Then what do you do? How do you keep yourself from?

23:38
Because I mean, the tendency is like, oh, I need to make five more videos on this topic because it’s resonating, even if it doesn’t resonate with the right people. Yeah, I’ve started to resist doing that. So I reserve those videos where I know that I want to get a bunch of views. I reserve those for when I’m down the dumps. Like if I’ve had a string of bad ones, then I’ll go back to a different angle on Tmoo that actually is relevant to the sellers. Mm hmm. Just to get

24:08
just to get some more mojo. Like, anytime I talk about e-commerce politics, because, I mean, it’s crazy, right? Like, at the time of this recording, we’re talking about terrorist to the EU, uh taking over Greenland. I mean, there’s just tons of news that applies to everyone on that front that are directly related to selling online. So anytime I need a dopamine hit, I’ll talk about that. And I know it’s gonna kill it. Am I gonna get any email subs from that?

24:38
Maybe just by sheer volume. Yeah. Yeah. Like the views will get me a bunch of email subs, but on a percentage level, no. Generally, it’s not going to be attracting people. Yeah. So how does a new content creator avoid that and focus on focus on the becoming the expert? Right. How do they avoid the the trough of sorrow when that happens?

25:02
I don’t know. thank God I haven’t been in that trough for several years, but I mean, it’s tough. And I think in the beginning, you do have to go with what works and just make more of it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Or you just have tremendous patience and you just slog it through and be willing to accept that you’re going to get less views, but a much more targeted audience. Yeah. Which is what Ed teaches now, actually. It’s hard for me to execute because I need that dopamine hit every now and then, but

25:33
I don’t know. I guess my point in saying all this stuff is if you focus on one thing and just do it very well, you will get a lot more impact than if you just chase views. And we all have the tendency to chase views, but at some point you have to see the bigger picture. And I think it helps to sell something outside of the content. Because if you’re just chasing views, you’re essentially trying to chase AdSense revenue.

26:01
which isn’t going to be your biggest moneymaker to begin with. Well, and you know, it’s interesting because I’m seeing that in the uh the raptive Facebook group. Facebook groups seem so old now. oh, don’t know. Do people still use Facebook groups? I don’t know. I mean, they do. But like I I’m not one of them. But you know, I’m in all these groups. one of the ones that I were I think it just appears in my feed a lot is the the ad.

26:28
Network Raptive, which is for websites, right? So you put ads on your blog and you’re paid, same way with AdSense and YouTube, right? You’re paid by the views on your website. And there are a lot of content creators that have been creating content for 15 years who were literally making a killing on ad revenue, even like 2018, 2019, right? Making 25, 30, $40,000 a month. So this is not like insignificant amount of revenue. But.

26:56
as times have changed, SEO has changed, Pinterest has changed, even Facebook if you were driving traffic from Facebook. And so they never had another revenue stream. They were pretty much 80 % ad revenue and then 20 % all the other things. um All of them are selling their blogs, all of them basically. um It feels like every time I’m in that group there’s someone else listing their website. And people that I know, people that I…

27:26
grew up blogging with because they were so website dependent on revenue as opposed to coming up with, whether it be digital products, leveraging a physical product, um creating a membership, everyone’s talking about cohorts now, right? Like that’s the big thing. um But yeah, think the same thing is gonna happen with YouTube, right? If all you’re doing is creating content for the revenue, for ad revenue.

27:55
you’re going to be in the same boat. Yes, unless you do it really well. Yes, unless you’re Mr. Beast, but now he doesn’t need to worry about anything anymore. He’s got TV shows and probably a He’s got other worries, I’m sure. The other trend that I’ve been seeing with content creation also is a lot of them are having their own events now too. I think Mr. Beast, since you talked about him, he’s got Beast games.

28:23
Yeah, a whole bunch of these other I listen to the all in podcast. I don’t know if you listen to that, but they have their own event that they throw uh every year. And what’s another event? Oh, the guys over at acquired, you would probably listen to different podcasts. We probably do. The acquired podcast has events. Shalene has an event. Oh, does she really? I didn’t know that. Can’t be more. OK. Yeah. But yeah, she’s another another perfect example of that.

28:52
And the other thing that I’ve seen change dramatically is the type of brand deal requests that I’ve been getting. uh Before it was all like long form, long form, long form. Now I’m getting asked for quotes more on the short form side. Interesting. Which I find a little odd because my long form is way better than my short form. For you specifically, absolutely. For me specifically, yeah. Yeah. But I…

29:22
I think that’s maybe where the audience is. Like, I don’t even know if long form is dying. I don’t think it’s dying. I don’t want to say that. But the brand deals seem to be more interested or in the short form videos. So I wonder if part of that in this is coming from having worked on the brand side is that brands want two things, right? They want conversions, obviously, number one, but they also want sexy.

29:51
Right, they want the metrics, the numbers. Like if I could go in front of a brand and say, hey, I’ve got these two content creators and they’ve got, you know, five million visitors a month to their website, you know, and they’ve got a two million person Facebook page and, you know, they, their eyes immediately got big and like, ooh, we want to work. Like it didn’t matter. Like if I said, hey, but they’re like, or they would see these people and say, hey, I really want to work with this person. And I could say like, hey, I know for a fact this person doesn’t drive a lot of conversions.

30:21
They’ll drive eyeballs, but they won’t drive conversions. A lot of times the brands are like, no, no, no, we want the numbers, right? We want the vanity metrics. And so I wonder if that’s part of the love of short form is that like the chances of a short form video going viral are much greater than a long form, right? Yeah, I would agree with that. So it’s like they can, you know, they can ask you for three short forms and, you know, potentially have two million views versus a long form video that maybe has 20,000.

30:50
even though the long form will probably at the end of the day, just by the way that long form is set up, right? The easier ability to link and, you know, tag products and all those things. You know, I feel like sometimes brands really get caught up in in the sexiness of it as opposed to like the actual nuts and bolts of what what can be done for them. I mean, to a certain extent, you can do everything with long form that you can with short form. Like I know at least on TikTok, because I did a brand deal with with TikTok and

31:19
my short form channels recently and they actually put their own ads, their own money behind ads to boost some of the things that I was doing. And then they get metrics for signups right away. Now in theory, you can do that with long form also. I just think that the way the world’s going is just short attention spans and more traction. Like you said, you get a ton more views on that video.

31:44
And maybe it’s just a better bang for the buck because I literally charge 10x less for short form than I do a long form. Right. And that could be it, too. Like if you’re saying and this is not what you charge, but like it’s one hundred dollars for a short form and you’re going to get one hundred thousand views versus five hundred dollars for a long form and, you know, ten thousand views. Like the math for them doesn’t make sense. And I guess I could now that I think about it, the other bonus is that entire minute long video is dedicated to the brand.

32:14
Yes. Whereas some of the quests I’ve gotten in the past for my long form is to just have a short one minute intermission, so to speak, in the middle of a long form video, which probably converts not as well, I’m guessing, than a dedicated short form video. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, it would be interesting to actually see that. I don’t I don’t think you’ve done anything where you’ve done long and short for the same brand. Have you?

32:38
No, I mean, you know, I’m not really into doing brand deals because I don’t like talking to, I don’t like the negotiation process and like the, I like to have creative freedom on everything that I do. Yeah. And for some reason, everyone I’ve worked with so far, with the exception of a couple brands, has been like super anal about what gets published. Yeah. Like to the point of like putting words in my mouth almost. And I actually told a couple of those brands recently, hey, I don’t want to work with you again, unless I have absolute creative freedom.

33:07
So yeah, that’s a whole that’s a whole nother episode, right? Yeah, that’s a whole nother episode. Yeah. When brands try to take over. OK, so here’s the other thing I’m worried about in the content creation side is all these A.I. avatars. I don’t know if you got a chance to play with the Sora app when it was out. I think all the hype has died down, but you can literally just take a picture of your face at different angles and then just start making videos of anyone’s likeness in the database. Yeah. Right.

33:36
And so I’ve seen so many deep fakes that like every time I watch a YouTube, a TikTok video now, where it’s just like a talking head. I’m starting to doubt whether that’s like a real human. Yes, me too. And it’s these deep fakes are just getting so good. And I can imagine maybe by the end of this year, it’s going to be pretty indistinguishable. Yeah. Right. A real person. And so like how

34:05
Once that happens, how do you know what’s real and what’s not anymore? Once again, this just shifts into the noise. We talked earlier how China is making it so that you need credentials to create something. I wonder if in the US we’re going to need something like that too. I don’t know. I would love that. That’s definitely bothersome to me. But on the devil’s advocate or devil’s argument on this is like,

34:34
We have so many people who come to the webinars or in the course and they want to make content, but they don’t want to show their face. Right. And they actually are like really smart about their topic. They’re not just using the problem I have is when it’s an it’s an avatar with content created by A.I. and there’s no like there’s no expertise involved by an expert human. Because I would say like, you know, A.I. makes a lot of mistakes. Right. They give you bad information.

35:03
And the longer I’m in it, the more I see bad information popping up and just absolute ridiculousness. But let’s talk about uh Charles in the course who sells old books, right? He knows more about old books than like anybody. He knows more about books in general, right? That’s true. But he doesn’t want to be on camera. I understand that. Not everybody does. And like I think he, know, and I don’t think he’ll ever do anything like this, but like he could create

35:33
and Avatar and talk about for people who are into this, like would be a very interesting content play on antique and in books and in, you first editions and all those things. So it would allow someone like him to actually produce content. Whereas now that’s really probably something he’s never going to do because he doesn’t want to put himself out there. I mean, there’s always exceptions, but I overall think that that rule is probably a good one. Just listen to the rule. You have to be an expert.

36:02
not an expert, but just have some sort of approval or even like a label on your account that indicates it’s a real person. So you’re accountable for the content that you’re creating. Yeah. You know what saying? Like they just need to make it harder to create an actual account or they need to verify your ad kind of like signing up for Amazon, right? Yeah. It’s now like a proctology exam to get an Amazon account. Yes. Like you to actually go on an interview and everything and have like a registered address with a, with a bill of some sort. Yeah. Do the same thing for content.

36:32
That way everyone’s held accountable for what they create. I think that’s probably the way to go. Do you think that will prohibit people from doing it? maybe not prohibit the bad guys, let’s just say, but prohibit people in general? Well, knock off half the spam accounts, I think. Well, yes, for sure. Which is good. I don’t know what your TikTok feed is like, but mine is a combination of clips of old movies and everything also, right? Clearly, it’s copyright.

37:02
Yes, I have a lot of that. I’ve watched a whole show with clips before. The other good news though, and this is good for me, is that uh polished doesn’t do well. How is that good for you? I feel like your stuff is polished. No, in terms of uh production level quality. You don’t see me with a whole array of lights and…

37:31
you know, different camera angles and whatnot. I think that at least this is for me, what I’m browsing short form at least, if something looks too polished, I almost always swipe away. Are you like that? um Depends on the topic, but sometimes, yeah. Because I like to see like the raw stories of someone, unless it’s like a skit, like unless it’s like an SNL skit or something like that. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

37:59
Yeah, I would swipe away. I don’t get a lot of that in my feed. So well, I probably because you swipe away, right? That’s true. Maybe it is working. So like anything shaky, blurry, uh low production value. I mean, I’m much more likely to watch at least on TikTok. Yeah, which actually brings me up to the other thing I was thinking about the other day, which was Instagram. Remember back in the day when we were first starting out, like Instagram?

38:29
Your Instagram feed was very curated. Like sometimes it even made a pretty picture. of that now. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they want reals. They want authentic stuff. Yeah. So I heard on a podcast like last month that they’re actually going to get rid of the feed. Not maybe get rid of it, but it’s not going to be visible. And what people will see is your real feed when they go to your profile. Yeah. So, yeah. They’re not getting rid of it, I think. They’re just

38:59
It’s not going the first. Yeah, the default will be. Yeah, not get rid of. But like the default view will be the reals, not the right. The the the pretty post feed. And the other thing I have to change, which I’m just very reluctant to do, is to change up my backgrounds and have more motion in the video. Yes. Right now, I’m just doing what’s easy, which is just literally popping myself down the chair and hoping that the content that’s coming out of my mouth is is good enough. But I don’t I don’t think it’s good enough anymore.

39:29
Yeah. So I’m not saying, your content is not good enough. I’m saying, yes, that there’s definitely a move towards favoring variation. Yeah, which I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s good. don’t know. And the other thing I was thinking about also was uh back in the day, you could just come on and in my case, give a lesson, be authentic. But I think what’s more important now is just storytelling.

39:59
Right. And just creating content when you actually have your own take on something instead of reporting the news. Yes. I mean, that’s one thing that I was doing for a while and it was working. I was just talking about current events and e-comm. Yeah. Right. But like everyone’s doing that now with avatars and whatnot. Right. So unless you have like a story or something to make it more interesting, you might just get drowned away in the news.

40:27
In like the in the noise so this is a chicken and the egg thing right because so You can’t just report the news you have to have an opinion on the news But why should people care about the your opinion of the news because you have created an interest in yourself to ah Get people to then want to know what your opinion is, but then how do you get people? know what? I mean? It’s like this cycle. Yep and so you have to be

40:56
interesting enough or have a viewpoint that’s so I don’t want to say controversial because doesn’t necessarily need to be controversial just needs to be interesting and different right then someone just reading the facts. I mean guess the main point here is uh for this year the way content is going you have to be more memorable than ever. Yeah. In order to stand out so you have to have like a really good backstory and then

41:24
be opinionated. mean, these are all things that worked in the past and these were required, you it was important in the past also, but I just think it’s even more important today with all the noise and all the content that’s that’s being put out like the sheer volume. But I think the good thing about it is that a lot of the things that we’re talking about are like you said, they’ve always been true. Yeah. Right. And this has always led to this will always, you know, help you gain success. So.

41:52
Not that you shouldn’t utilize the new tools that are out there and the things that you can do to make your workload easier and more efficient, but at the end of the day, the core is probably still the same. Be authentic, be different, um be interesting, right? uh And that’s what’s going to set you apart from your competitors. Yeah, I’m just thinking about I’m just being selfish right now. I’m just thinking like.

42:20
In the day, I could just depend on really good how-to content. But I think I personally need to step up my game now, right? That goes beyond how-to content and more like very opinionated how-to content maybe. I don’t know. I’ll figure something out. Hope you enjoyed this episode. I still believe that content is the key differentiator to the success of any business. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 636. And once again,

42:48
If you are interested in starting your own e-commerce store, head on over to mywifequitterjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini course. Just type in your email and they’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

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635: How To Get Paid $40K a Month to Post On Facebook With Jeff Rose

635: How To Get Paid $40K a Month to Post On Facebook With Jeff Rose

In this episode, my good friend Jeff Rose talk about how he built a $40K a month business doing something most people do every single day without ever getting paid for it. We walk through exactly how posting on Facebook became a full time income and how you can get started even if you have no experience and no following. If you’ve ever wondered whether you could actually get paid to be on social media, this episode is going to open your eyes.

Enjoy the episode!

What You’ll Learn

  • How Jeff Rose Makes $40k/mo Posting On Facebook
  • How To Build An Engaged Audience
  • Quick Content Types That Attract Virality

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, my good friend Jeff Rose and I talk about how we built a $40,000 a month business doing something most people do every single day without ever getting paid for it. We walk through exactly how posting on Facebook became a full-time income and how you can get started even if you have no experience and no following. If you’ve ever wondered whether you can actually get paid to be on social media, this episode is gonna open your eyes.

00:29
But before we begin, want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:58
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:26
So if you want in, go over to SellersSummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:37
Welcome to the MyWifeQuarterJob podcast. Today, I’m thrilled to have my good friend, Jeff Rose, back on the show. And if you do not remember him, he is the founder of Good Financial Sense and probably one of the earliest personal finance bloggers to turn content into a seven-figure business. He spent over a decade as a certified financial planner, built a massive blog back a decade ago, I’m gonna say, and eventually walked away from his wealth management firm.

02:05
when his online business was kicking bucket and making way more than what he was doing with his practice. Now, on paper, he did everything right, and then the internet changed. AI happened, it happened to me too, and the business that he thought was gonna go forever all of a sudden stopped working, similar to my wife, Quitterjob.com, but Jeff’s superpower is his ability to adapt.

02:31
I want to say is the last couple years he discovered Facebook monetization. And we’re not talking about like long form videos here. We’re talking about just posts and what started out as an experiment now makes him tens of thousands of dollars per month, reaching hundreds of millions of views while just spending a couple hours a day creating very simple content. And I am very curious today, Jeff is going to teach us how he doesn’t. What’s up, man? Good to have you. What is going on?

03:01
So catch us up real quick. just you just brought up some stuff about AI and SEO and ah just brought up a lot of PTSD. Well, I have it too. I spent like, man, I spent like 15 years on that blog hard work writing the posts and everything. And then one technology comes out and it just goes down the drain. Yeah, that forever business dried up pretty quick. Yeah.

03:29
But we’ve got other stuff going on. mean, I’ve got YouTube, you’ve got this Facebook thing and catch us up. What’s been going on? Because we haven’t chatted in, I want to say a couple of years. We used to see each other like every year at least minimum. And then, you know, we’d be we were in the same mastermind group and that sort of thing. What’s been going on? Yeah, no, mean, on the business front, man, like you just said, the blog just got decimated and

03:55
tried several different things to try to revive it. Just updating content, content strategy. I went on a, um I guess it’s called a marketing spree, but basically like using Quoted to get Jeff Rose, Good Financial Sense in the media. I forgot the number, but I think it was one month. I was able to get quoted like, I’m gonna make up a number here. was 100 or 200 times or something. Something ridiculous. I I went all in thinking like, okay, what can I do?

04:24
to get good financial sense relevant in the search. And basically, long story short, everything that I did did not work. It just flopped. I’m like, gosh, like this thing is just done. And it’s funny, because I still have monetization on the blog. I think it was last month. You know, this is a website that used to make several hundred thousand dollars a month. I think last month maybe $180. No, you’re talking about just like display ads? Display ads, yeah. Passive income, baby.

04:53
I turned that off a long time ago. So yeah, man. So that just began this journey of like, man, what am I going to do now? You know, I was a financial planner for 16 years, like you said, sold that business, had the blog, you know, Griefly sold a minority stake, so he was able to take that and invest it. So, you know, there was investments, were savings that were there. But, you know, I’m in my mid 40s. I’m like, I’m not done yet. You what am I going to do? And started doing, trying to grow like a coaching business, specifically growing a business coaching.

05:21
trying to find entrepreneurs that are making like 250 plus, but just struggling finding purpose, something that I could relate to a lot. And so I’m growing that, we’re trying to grow that. And then I’m posting on Facebook, not really for anything. I actually was growing my wife, she started a Instagram business, trying to teach businesses how to grow an Instagram and…

05:46
I’m like, I really have nothing else going on. So maybe I’ll use Instagram to grow my coaching business or something. I don’t know. So I just start posting over there doing one or two reels per day with really no clear strategy, right? Like there’s no, mean, it’s just, posting to post uh as I’m doing that, you know, it asks me like, Oh, do you want to cross post over to Facebook? Which Instagram is J Jeff Rose. So more of like a personal.

06:14
but not branded to Good Financial Sense. But then I have my Good Financial Sense Facebook page synced to it or linked to it. So I’m like, do you want to cross post to Facebook? I’m like, okay, sure, why not? I’ve already created mine as well. And once again, no clear strategy. And then after doing that for a while, I had one reel that did okay on Instagram, but it got like several hundred thousand views on Facebook. ah But because I was using copyrighted music, I didn’t make any money from it.

06:43
But still I’m like, well, that’s funny. Like I’m not even trying to grow Facebook. I didn’t think people even were over there still, you know. At that point in time, it’s my least favorite social media platform. So it’s just like interesting. Like, wow, I posted over there, I get several hundred thousand views. Like I haven’t got several hundred thousand views on anything, you know, in a while. So I’m like, oh, that’s curious. And then it wasn’t until, I think this was last, was it May?

07:10
There was a tweet, I’m still gonna call it a tweet, that I thought was funny. And I took a screenshot of it and I shared it on my Facebook page. And once again, there was nothing finance, I guess kind of finance related, it was a screenshot of somebody ordering something off DoorDash. But you know, I wasn’t trying to teach a financial lesson, it wasn’t like talking about wealth building. I just thought it was funny. Posted on my Facebook page and then…

07:35
Like I said, I don’t even remember this. I don’t know like when I got approved for at that time, it would have been a performance bonus. I don’t know if I was grandfathered in, since I had the page for so long. But next thing I know, I see I have some earnings that I’m gonna get paid on. And I’m like, wait, get paid on what? You what am I gonna get paid on? And it was this post and another post, where I guess I had some views and like Facebook was going to pay me $137 for two screenshots, essentially.

08:05
And I’m like, what, what? What do you mean? Like, you know, at that point in time, like, yes, I’ve got paid on YouTube, never been paid for a podcast other than sponsorships. But other than like creating the blog for the AdSense, you know, I’ve never created anything on social where I got paid that wasn’t a video. So I’m like, well, this is interesting, you fascinating. So then the next month, I knew that there was a post that I had posted.

08:33
I think earlier that year, was a Taylor Swift post. I’m like, all right, I’m going to post this because I knew it went viral before. Let me see what I can do. So I posted on my Facebook page and that post made me like 500 bucks. And I’m like, what the heck, right? So I think I got it all figured out. I got the strategy next month, I made $180. Like, okay, maybe I don’t have it figured out. And I wish I could tell you that I…

09:02
I ran with it. I saw the writing on the wall. This is an amazing opportunity. It still was like this side thing, right? I still didn’t take it seriously. I’m still trying to grow this coaching business. So I’m still going to post because I’m like, hey, if it makes me a couple hundred bucks a month, whatever, just for a little extra time. And I think it was finally that December I had my first five figure month. just barely, I think it was like 10 grand I made doing reels and essentially screenshots or image posts.

09:33
Once again, I wish I could tell you that I took it seriously, but I think it was like that spring, I posted something. It was a parody post. You probably saw it. It was like a picture of a Tmoo factory. I might be mispronouncing that. Tmoo, Tmoo. know, a factory burning. And it said, know,

09:53
Breaking, Tmoo Factory on fire, know, they lost $19 of total inventory or something like that, you know. It was meant to be funny, right? It’s like my total sense of humor, dry sense of humor, posted that and it got fact checked on Facebook, which basically meant at that time I got dinged and it basically said that my distribution had been decreased because I’m sharing false information. uh

10:20
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

10:48
And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quietlight has built or sold businesses themselves. So my advisor told me what needed to change, it was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quietlight

11:18
will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. And I’m like, really for real? And that was super triggering for me being a former financial planner and dealing with compliance. I just saw that. I’m like, screw this. This is stupid. You know, like, yeah, I’ll continue to post, but I really don’t care. So I just kind of wrote it off and then.

11:46
I don’t know, a few months went by and there was a guy that I follow on Facebook and he posts like 25 to 50 times per day. And I noticed that, you know, I’m like, gosh, that just seemed insane to me. I found this guy on YouTube that talked about Facebook monetization and he basically confirmed like, you know, if you have a page that has a decent following, you have to assume that like less than 5 % of your following actually are going to see anything that you post.

12:15
So that’s why you post as much as you do. And at that point in time, I’m like, okay, I’ve never really taken this seriously. What would it look like if I actually had a clear strategy of posting, being intentional what I post, how much I post? What would that look like? And I think that was in the, I think it was April or May of this past year. So almost a year later, a year after the first $137 that I made, I go quote unquote all in.

12:44
And that first month, I think I made like 10 or 15,000. And then I’m maybe missing a month. I think the next month it was 20,000. Then I hit 30, 30, 30. I’m like, what is going on? You know, like what is going on? So, um, so it’s just, it’s been fun. It feels like, as we were talking before this, like it feels a lot like blogging back in the day, you know, when you could write anything, almost anything, you know, it would rank, you make some money.

13:12
You know, that’s what it feels like. So it’s been a little bit of finding a lot of screenshots either on X or threads or Reddit. I want to do a little bit more branding. there is like, you know, creating some images in Canva that has like a template that feels like it’s a part of like the good micro sense, Jeff Rose brand, some quote style images, you know, like just invoking some thought leadership. And yeah, man, it’s just been fun to kind of discover this and also just seeing

13:41
so many other pages in so many other niches that are crushing it. um It’s been fun to see. And just to be clear, this is Facebook, Not Instagram, we’re talking Facebook. No, yeah, like Instagram, least for me right now, I would get paid to post uh images on Instagram. uh They took away their Reels bonus. That’d be cool if they brought it back. um But yeah, as of right now, this is all strictly,

14:10
up until September the first, had Facebook had ads on reels. had breakthrough bonuses. had a performance bonuses that all of that has been rolled up into their content monetization program. So right now that that is what it’s called. So in that you get paid for images, text posts, reels, long form videos, stories. They also have subscriptions, which I really don’t do. You can send stars, which I really

14:40
don’t track. And within that, they’ll also give you performance bonuses, which is stupid to me. You know, like you’re going to pay me a bonus on top of paying me to post content. Like, okay. All right. So I have a page. I think it has a hundred thousand. I actually, don’t even check. I don’t even go on Facebook anymore, but how do I have this? How do I turn this on? Like, is it on by default or?

15:09
I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free.

15:39
just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. So for what I’ve seen for like legacy pages, kind of like yours, I don’t know if I just got grandfathered in. I’ve talked to lot of people that have had a page that it’s like say five years or older, 10 pages or older. It seems like, and they have like a, I’ll say a decent following. It seems like it’s easier.

16:07
for them to get accepted because it is an invite only. You may actually have access to it. You just haven’t said, yes, I wanna be in. That’s what I’ve seen with several people. It’s just clicking a button. For others- So it’s invite only. It is invite only, correct. All right. Yeah. For others, it’s weird, man. I’ve seen people like-

16:31
Newer pages get accepted pretty quickly. I’ve seen pages that have 20,000 followers and they’re posting and they still haven’t been invited yet. There really isn’t a method to the madness, but uh generally what we’ve seen, at least what I’ve seen is uh Facebook finally released something like their monetization policies where if you’re a new page, you have to post for at least 30 days before they’ll even consider you.

16:56
And, um, and you also, you want to demonstrate, you know, I think of it kind of like an audition, right? It’s like, what, why would Facebook want to invite you if you’re not posting consistently, if you’re not posting content that people are engaging with, you know, if you’re just posting a bunch of crap that just, just for the sake of posting, most likely you won’t get accepted. Um, maybe you will, I don’t know, you know, um, but generally like it’s all about engagement. Um, which the thing for me that I’m most fascinated by is.

17:26
I think what you experienced on YouTube, like with your ad revenue, I’ve always assumed that if you’re in the investing space or business space, your RPMs or CPMs are gonna be much higher just because of the advertisers. And initially, that’s what I just assumed with my Facebook page because being in the finance space. And then when I started doing a lot of research and… uh

17:51
a lot of pages, not all pages do this, but like they’ll actually post their earnings, you So anytime I came across a page that shared their earnings, I would always save it in book market, just like, I’m just curious, right? So just started building this like library. And it is so fascinating to see pages that, for example, like mom blogs, right? You know, like the mom blogs are now on Facebook, you know, posting long-form content, like with an image.

18:17
And, you know, mom bloggers making, you know, 10,000, 15,000, sometimes 20,000 a month. And they’re just writing long form blog posts with an image. And they’re in there and they’re posting quite a bit as well. You know, they’re not just doing one and done like a day, but still like, I’m like, wow, like it has nothing to do with the niche. It has every everything to do with, you getting engagement? You know, are people commenting? Are they liking? Are they sharing?

18:46
That’s replace the blog then is that what you’re saying? Yeah, that’s what it yeah, like that’s what I’ve seen, you know, um because I came across another page that is in the thrifting space, right? You know, so they’re going to thrift stores, going to flea markets, reselling the stuff like I wouldn’t think that a thrifting page would have a high RPM, you know, and but this page, I think they have around 300,000 followers, I think when I when they shared this, but they

19:14
they made like 22 or $24,000 in one month from Facebook, just from Facebook. That’s not core sales, that’s not sponsorships or brand deals, like that’s strictly from Facebook monetization. And like, to me it’s like, gosh, that doesn’t even make sense to me that a page that’s talking about saving money, which you wouldn’t think that that type of advertiser would be there, but.

19:40
Nonetheless, as of right now, like it is. So I’ve seen political pages making, you five figures, um motivational, you know, mom, like dad, like dad motivation, how to be a better father, that type of stuff, right? Like it’s all about engagement, man. Huh? So Facebook can’t be making money off of this, right? There’s, they subsidizing this or? Oh, I mean, I’m assuming, right? If they’re paying all this money to creators, mean, yeah.

20:09
I’m sure it’s just like essence, right? I don’t know if it’s 50%, probably, we’re probably getting a third, you know? And you also have to think, right? If I’m gonna make, as an example, like I posted a, it was like a stat that talked about the percentage of people that drinking alcohol or like, I forgot what it was, right? 54 % people are drinking less alcohol. It was a text post, right? It is one sentence that I wrote, that I hit publish on.

20:36
And that one sentence, I think it may be like 250 or $300. That’s amazing, right? Yes. It doesn’t even make sense. But like, I’ve also seen people say like, oh, I only made $30, you know, from a text or I made $5, you know, from and I had this many views. I’m like, it’s a sentence, you know, like if they’re paying you based off retention, like, yeah, somebody read it. They engage with they liked it, but they’re not going to spend a lot of time on that post. Right. Like, they’re going to move on.

21:06
versus like somebody watching one of your YouTube videos, right? Like it makes sense that they’re gonna pay you more. Cause I’ve had certain reels that will get like a million views and maybe pay me $30. like, could be frustrating, but also it’s a six second reel. You know, like people didn’t spend a lot of time there. So like, it makes sense to me why they wouldn’t pay me as much. But if I got, you know, if I got somebody, a million people to watch a…

21:32
an eight minute video like yeah, that makes a lot more sense that the payouts would be more. um So you’ve got me intrigued now. OK, so let’s talk about like the guts here. OK, so what type of content works? How often do I need to post? Let’s start with like the ones that have gone viral for you. What are they? Just give the audience an idea of what types of post these do. It’s a variety of things I’ve had. I’ll take the easy form for me is I will go to X.

22:02
or Facebook or threads or Reddit. X is the easy one for me. Gosh, I hate calling it X, man. just don’t know what it is, man. I know. Yeah. I just, I say it out loud. I’m like, don’t even, I don’t, you’re, you don’t even believe yourself. Just say Twitter. um I’ll go to Twitter and I’m, you know, I’m scrolling, finding stuff and like, I’ll see something either it has engagement or it’s something that is personal finance related some way, somehow, which is pretty easy. And I’m like, oh, that’s, that’s a good one, right? Take a screenshot.

22:31
and then upload it to chat GBT and say, give me a caption on this. And I’ve had enough conversations with chat GBT where it knows, and usually it’s either satire, parody, unless it’s something where I want to invoke either thought leadership or a personal story. In that case, I’ll upload a chat GBT and I’ll just hit the record button and start talking. Hey, this one I want you to share a story and here’s the story.

23:00
And I do that maybe like once a day, but for most parts, like here, give me five different captions, give me five different first comments to go with it. And that’s the process, you know, that I use a scheduling tool. Used to use buffer. But now I use, it’s called post planner, which allows me to create different buckets of content. And that way I’ve kind of have like, all right, here’s the different time blocks. Everything is going out. And I just upload that post, whatever bucket it fits into. And I hit schedule, man. And that is.

23:31
probably 70 % of the content that I’m producing is just finding other people’s content that either has gone, I don’t wanna say viral, but it’s gotten decent engagement where I think it’s going to resonate with my audience. And that’s a big part of it. Okay, so that post that you’ve clipped off of Twitter, are you posting the same thing with just different captions? Does that count as a post or? Oh, so like I’ll take a screenshot of somebody’s post.

24:00
You know, so that’s the image, right? And then with that I’ll create my own caption to give commentary on that image, right? It does. Yeah, but are you doing variations of that like same image like to speed things up, right? You mentioned you’re posting like 20 times a day, right? Yeah, well, so em so that one image. So I mean, I’m finding a lot right and the cool thing with uploading it. It’s not as easy to do this if you don’t use like a scheduling tool, but like.

24:29
using post planner with buffer, like all those things are, they’re in there now. Right. And so I can go back. I also should say this out loud. I don’t have a VA at the moment. So this is a hundred percent all me. um Yes, there’s some stupidity in that. And also for me, it was a lot of me wanting to truly understand what’s working and why it’s working. also like with chat GBT, you know, the caption that I choose,

24:58
You know, there’s a method of the madness, right? Like there’s a reason I choose it, right? And right or wrong or indifferent, you know, and it’s, could I outsource some of that? Yes, I could. But you know, that would be that missing 20%. And eventually I will. But right now, it’s just kind of a lot of fun figuring it out. But yeah, so these are all individual screenshots, images that I’m finding. Once they’re in post planner, I will reschedule, republish them. I’ll usually wait.

25:28
uh You can’t do stuff like if it’s a newsworthy type stuff, obviously doesn’t make sense to republish that. like a lot of stuff I find is somewhat evergreen. So yeah, I’ll definitely recycle content. And it’s basically just for the most part, just republishing the exact same thing as is, you know, I could tweak, but that’s the funny thing, man. Like with Facebook, especially at least with YouTube, right? Like that video, you know, a video can provide

25:57
your views will continue to increase, know, until it just doesn’t make any sense. But like with Facebook, man, the shelf life of 95 % of your content is done after 48 hours. I mean, it’s just done. Oh yeah, there are some stuff, like if it’s something goes viral or there’s a story driven, like yeah, there’s some stuff that will get served, but the majority of it is done. And you also have to assume that your audience, a fraction of your audience actually even saw that. So, you know, my biggest fear initially was like, gosh, I don’t.

26:26
You know, at the time I think I had 25,000 when I started this and the thought of like publishing more than six times a day was just like, what are people going to think? Are they going to? It’s just so funny, right? And now I’m publishing like 24 times a day. You know, it’s like, so you’re finding 24 unique pieces of content intermixed with republished stuff a day and percentage wise, is it mostly new stuff or is it mostly republished stuff?

26:55
I would say at this point in time, 90 % new. Wow. Okay. Does that take a lot of time or are you just, are you on Twitter all the time? Just in general? I feel like, yeah. You know, like I definitely been monitoring my screen time, know, where, you know, I try to like guard that time. And it’s like, it’s funny. It’s like, I’ll, I go to pick up my daughter.

27:20
from school, it’s cold outside, I get there early just so can get a close spot. So I’m in the car for like 20 minutes and I will find on average like eight to 12 pieces of content, right? Like in that setting, right? Cause I’m just like, oh, oops, screenshot, boom, good, good, good, good. And I mean, if you went through my phone right now, I just have so much content, you know? And it’s actually kind of a hoarding concern.

27:50
Cause it’s like, there’s just so much content, you know? It’s like, okay, at some point I’m like, hey, I got enough. Like I can, don’t, I don’t really need anymore. But, can you do all this from your phone? Like you have a setup now where you can do all this from your phone or I, can obviously it’s just easier to do from a desktop, you know? Um, but yeah, like take a screenshot, upload a chat to BT, give me the caption, take the screenshot, upload to post planner. be all automated though. That’s what’s that. That’s what’s like.

28:19
ringing the bells for me. Oh, yeah. Eventually, 100 percent. Right. Like the only thing that I still like where I need to do some more training is, you know, when you get a capture of chat, you’ll be like, OK, this is screams AI and maybe that’s just having a better prompt, you know, like the two sentence trio of sentence in a row, you know, just like, OK, stop, stop.

28:46
And also like sometimes it would just say stuff. like, Oh no, that’s not me. Right. Like I don’t, that’s not the direction I wanted you to go. Um, and maybe it’d be fine. Right. And maybe if somebody else ran with that, like who cares? You know, like at the end of the day, but, um, yes, a hundred percent. I definitely think it could be automated. Um, and eventually I will a hundred percent get there. Here’s what I’m thinking, Jeff. And you tell me if this isn’t that I might, I might try this, which is why I’m asking.

29:14
You just, you have all these screenshots, right? You throw them in like a bucket on like your Google Drive or Dropbox, whatever. You click a button, it grabs all those images and based on a prompt that you specify, it puts everything on like a spreadsheet, like the image plus, you know, the caption. You manually review all the captions on this spreadsheet and you just click go, go, go, go, go, go, go, and they just schedule them out. I can see that being super fast.

29:44
Super fast, 100%. Like we’re talking maybe like half an hour or an hour of work. Yeah. All right. So can you just give me an example of a piece of content that went viral with your caption? Um, that just strikes your mind. Yeah. Um, one came to mind, but it’s a little bit different. And actually I want to bring this example up because I think it would be really good for you as a type of content that you could create, you know, for, for your own Facebook page. Um,

30:13
I did a, found somebody else that did it, right? So it wasn’t my idea, but it basically was like a long, think of it a blog, as like a long form blog post. And it was talking about the, gas station Buc-E’s, which I don’t know you have those in California. um Big, big in our neck of the way, like Texas Midwest, right? Like these ginormous gas stations. I have a huge following. So I found a Facebook page that I think he does like business write-ups, right?

30:39
And it went viral. I’m like, oh, I love Bucky’s. Okay. Let me, let me do my, my version of it. And, know, had Chad’s TBD create an image with David looked like the owner, but it was close. You know, had it rewrite the content and do it. went viral. You know, I think that one post I made like over $3,000 off this one post. And I shared that because I found a guy who, um, he does something similar. Um, I forgot the.

31:06
the guy who actually got the idea from, I need to go back to his page, but a newer guy, right? And I think he’s grown to, I think he’s almost at 50,000 followers on Facebook, but basically he just finds an image of an entrepreneur, a business owner or investor, and he does like long form written content, just about their story. And people love stories, like the story aspect. And he’s not posting as much as me, and maybe he posts them where he grew, but to go from-

31:35
I want to he’s almost brand new to 40,000. um That could be something that you could do just as a highlighting different entrepreneurs, different, especially the story. Think of it like the CNBC make it, you know, but you’re doing it on, on your page. What is considered long form? Are we talking like a blog post, like a couple of thousand words long form? Anywhere from like 500 to a thousand. Wow. Okay. But you know, once again, you’re using chat GPT, right? So it’s not like it’s. Yeah, no, no, I’m just.

32:05
thinking like how sustainable can this possibly be? mean, especially since you can just repurpose stuff, Meaning uh republish, sorry. And let’s say you took that guy’s post verbatim and posted it on your page. Is that like a copyright violation or? As of right now, mean, yes, but Facebook would not do anything about it as of right now. Right. Which sucks. You know, you

32:35
Right now they’ve cracked down on like reels, right? So if you actually downloaded somebody else’s reel and published as your own, that would get you flagged. But that being said, I found somebody that was doing that with my content, right? Like, and they actually took my picture of my wife and I, Mandy and I, like sitting by our pool with our two kids, like two of our kids. And so it’s a picture of us and my caption and published it as their own. And

33:03
Only reason I knew is because Facebook served me the posts on my algorithm. And I’m like, so you could do that, but you know, the karma or the Facebook gods, like the algorithm is going to root you out, whatever, right? Like you’ll get found out and then that creator can report you. And then that’s, that ain’t good. So not, not recommendable.

33:32
But if you want to try it, could. And as of right now, you wouldn’t get flagged by Facebook, but you get flagged by somebody else, most likely. So a lot of people listening to this podcast either sell in e-commerce or they’re trying to sell a course or a coaching program. Yeah. I assume you’re not linking anywhere out, right? On any of these posts. Yeah. So that’s it. So I have not. OK, that’s actually a great question and a segue into like kind of part of the strategy going forward.

34:03
is I found a few guys on, I think it was actually on Twitter, saying Twitter here, and they are driving traffic from their Facebook page to their blog, their website. And for them, you know, they’re taking advantage of the ad revenue. Like that’s, that’s what they’re trying to do. Right? Right. And I had a call with a guy who basically runs a, he runs a Facebook page agency. That’s what I’m gonna call it.

34:31
And on the call, the first call we had, he said, he’s like, you should be making as much on your website as you are on from Facebook monetization. And I’m like, really? so I’m like, you know, thinking that my website is dead, you know, that there’s no way I’m going to meet me making money from it ever again. But, um, that is part of what they do and how they do it. And so when you look at a

34:59
like a Fox News or an independent, you know, one of the ways they do it is like, they’ll have a really good graphic, you know, to get your attention. And most of the time, I don’t know they do it actually in the caption. I think they usually do it in the first comment. Right. To help, guess that way it doesn’t decrease your reach, so to speak. I’ve seen, I’m not, I don’t have anything personal to report on this, but knowing what I’ve heard and seeing other people and how they do it, there is a way that, yeah, you can,

35:29
drop a link in, it’s usually suggestible or recommendable is that you don’t want more than like 30 % of your content. I’m just regurgitating what I’ve heard. uh 30 % of your content to outgoing links, I think 70 % keep it in the ecosystem. Then occasionally Facebook is cool with you doing that. Okay, so I assume you don’t use links though, right? I mean, you’re going for like the pure Facebook revenue right now.

35:58
Yeah, the only thing that I do is, uh and I got that from Instagram, I use a many chat, is, know, so where people will comment, you whatever the keyword is, mine stack or FMC to get my Facebook monetization checklist. um But yeah, it’s interesting because like I’ve. that’s actually why I reached out to you, because I came across a. There’s nothing to do with e-commerce, but.

36:27
It’s a, she’s a, like she makes cookies, right? um They’re political cookies. um Pretty controversial, but it’s still fascinating to see the engagement that she was getting on her Facebook page. And what was intriguing to me was she posted, don’t think she doesn’t do it anymore, but she posted her revenue. And I think like one month she made like two or $3,000 from Facebook. And in addition to that, she was selling out of her cookies. And

36:56
It was just so fascinating, right? mean, like, yes, you experienced it with YouTube, right? Like you’re, you’re getting paid from YouTube to advertise your business. Like that’s pretty cool, right? But like you’re doing videos like, which take a lot of time, you know, and it’s not something that you can do 10, 20 times a day, you know, it’s not sustainable, but if you could actually create pictures or images of your product or behind the scenes of whatever your service is.

37:26
And you’re like, if I was still a financial advisor, like it just blows my mind that I could be creating content, getting paid to create that content to then drive leads to my business as well. You know, from Facebook. I mean, this is essentially YouTube, but it’s meta. Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be videos. Like it can be you taking a screen like a selfie. So this is type of post.

37:52
Facebook that gets me to click every time and every time I do it pisses me off, but I still do it so I follow the Warriors and In the picture it’ll say like crazy trade rumors Right. Yeah, and then I’ll have a picture of like Steph or Jonathan comingo whoever is on the trade block and Then you actually have to click on the first comment to get the article Yeah, and then you click on the article and then it’s this page with a ton of ads, you know

38:20
And it’s a rumor that’s not even true, but I click on it every time. I’ve clicked on that so many damn times. No exactly. talking about. now I realize they’re probably making money because these posts have tons of engagement. The way they’ve done it. So they’re probably making money off of the Facebook post in addition to the ads on their site. Just like what you said. Yeah. I never understood how they made money. That’s what that’s how, so they’re getting, like you said, they’re getting paid for the engagement from Facebook. Right.

38:48
uh And also too when people click over the ads and get served like 37 ads before they even scroll um That’s how they’re also making money nuts. Okay, let’s uh I’m pretty sure the audience is very intrigued by this and it sounds very straightforward and it’s Automatable or semi-automated well, I think pretty easily um How sustainable do you think this is how long has this been going on for I mean that that always it was the fear for me It’s like man. I don’t want to I don’t want to go all in on this, you know, and it be um

39:17
All of nonexistent. talking to this guy who runs the agency, they’ve been doing this for… I’m going to make up a number here, I forgot. But it’s been seven years or longer. Okay, so Facebook has been paying people to post for that long? Dude, that… So I had a call with a guy. um So he’s a political podcaster. And he found me, we ended up talking, and he’s been getting paid from Facebook since 2019.

39:46
And even with him, he’s like, you know, when I started my podcast, like I thought my podcast would be the main revenue driver, you know, with brand deals, whatever, sponsors, whatever that was. And it has, it’s been Facebook. And I’m like, dude, that’s crazy to me, right? I mean, 2019, like, was he not on the radar, you know? So I mean, he’s been making money all this time. um What is, like I said, I don’t know. All I know is that

40:13
them rolling everything up into this now monetization, uh content monetization program. You know, when you log in the professional dashboard and you see the earnings and you see how they’re doing it, I see other people that have been making money on TikTok. You know, that’s kind of a fear because I TikTok at one point in time was like paying creators like crazy. They were, yes. Right. You know, and and then also, you know, there there was a time where threads when that first launched.

40:42
they were paying people like I was getting paid like $500 if I had so many posts hit like so many views and do that. I could, I could hit that bonus in the first like three days. Like it was so easy. Uh, and now they don’t pay you anything. Right. Um, so there, there is that fear, but it feels like, man, they’re making a big push to get people on, on here and knowing like that’s what they have to do to compete with like the Tik TOKs and the YouTube’s and snap chats or whatever X. Um,

41:11
So yeah, I don’t know. I think like anything, I think it’s gonna be good for a while. Eventually then maybe like decrease the earnings possibly, maybe. But it’s so fascinating for me like right now for the month of December, um not only do they have the content that I’m getting paid for, the content monetization, but they threw on three different bonuses. um And one…

41:38
One was like 20 % on top of whatever I make for the month. Wow. That’s probably like a December, it’s called a holiday bonus. They probably won’t do that again until next year if they ever do it again, right? um The other one was if you hit so many earnings, we’ll give you a bonus. Like probably not going to get that one. You know, so I don’t know if that’s a, we’re going to tease you, you know, and get you to post a lot and then you’re going to get so damn close and not get it. Yeah. But, but also too, like it does give you the incentive, like, Hey, I’m going to try to hit it.

42:08
And if I don’t get this, I don’t get the bonus, but I do get paid for because I was creating more content. But then the third bonus was if I get like two posts that hit like so much reach, you know, and this one was like 480 bucks. I got that one a week ago, hit it, it renewed again for this week. I already hit it. You know, so that’s like a thousand dollars in bonuses just from that one, not including the 20 % one. um

42:38
Yeah, you know, it’s just, I don’t know. So many things are flying through my mind. Cause we both have kids. Like our kids are not on Facebook. maybe, and I know when I run ads, worked. Facebook is my top platform because of the demographic. So I’m wondering, like anyone who has money is probably on Facebook cause we’re older, right? Yeah. And maybe that’s why they’re not doing the same thing on Instagram, which is a lot of kids.

43:07
And so maybe this does have lasting power because Facebook is their platform of old people like us. It’s what it feels like, man. Like if seeing once again, like seeing how everything was kind of disconjointed, like the different performance bonus and ads on real, like it was all kind of like, yeah, but now like it feels more legit, right? I mean, like you say, like every, every single day I can see like how much I made on my stories, how much I made on reels, how much I made on images, how much I’m going to stay on text posts. um

43:36
You can click on any single post and see how many views did it get? How much, how many followers did you get from that one post? I mean, the reporting is, is legit, you know, and it’s real time. Um, like I said, I never had that on YouTube. Oh, well, I guess I, guess you could, mean, I feel like you had to like really click around and dig, right? Like this is literally like a few clicks and you have access to a lot of data. Why stop at 20? Um, I think there is some audience fatigue.

44:07
But then again, like, but the guy that I’m the guy referenced earlier, so I’m assuming he started like the during COVID, you know, he blew up on TikTok and he has almost 4 million followers on Facebook. Good Lord. OK, so I went back when I first started following him. I think it was like 25 a day and then. And the only way to know is like I literally have to scroll and count right? I’m like. And I think he’s posting anywhere from like.

44:35
50 to 70 times a day now. I’m assuming he has somebody helping him obviously. And what I noticed like he is republishing almost the exact same posts like every other day sometimes, right? I think he’ll go like through a cycle. So yeah, I mean, if you have a team trained well enough to be able to schedule that stuff out and republish like, yeah, think you definitely could do it. But as of right now, since it’s me and me, myself and I, that is like,

45:04
I tried getting it up to 30 a day and it was a lot to manage. Even republishing stuff, was a lot for me just by myself. So 24 right now is kind of that sweet spot where I can do it and feel sustainable as of right now. So given that it’s 24, does that imply that you’re posting once an hour? Yes, but like I only post like at 3, do I still do 3 a.m.?

45:34
three and six AM. So like I’m not anything where 12 to three, there’s nothing going live and three to six, I only got one. So for the most part, and then there’s occasionally I’ll throw a text post in like every half hour. I see. Dude, Jeff, I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of people listening here. I want to get started. I know you have something that you’ve whipped up. And I’m going to sign up right after this actually. You want to share it? Yeah, no, it’s like, it’s one of those where you start doing something.

46:02
uh And actually a good friend of ours, Bob, Bob Lodick reached out to me and he had no idea that I was making money from Facebook. He just saw that. So when I started this, I had 25,000, around 25,000 followers as of right now, like I’m almost at 400,000. It’s weird to say, but just this week, my Facebook follower account passed my YouTube subscribers. Crazy.

46:30
It’s just like, it’s weird. like, I don’t know. It’s weird. think it’s also kind of sad, right? Because YouTube was the thing, you know? And I guess Facebook is the thing, but still, like, I was so proud of like the YouTube subscribers, you so it feels weird. And I know it’s two totally different platforms, but anyway, um he had reached out to me and he just saw like how much my following had grown, you know? So I like, man, what are you doing? And…

46:57
So we were just like texting and then like, then I mentioned them again, and by the way, like I’m also like, you know, I’m getting paid, you know? And he’s like, what you, what, what do mean? What do mean you’re getting paid? And I sent him a screenshot and he’s like, wait, what? That’s, that’s from Facebook? Like Facebook pays you? And, and I had several of those conversations of like, okay, I know there’s people out there like me that have no idea that this even exists. So let me, let me put together a course.

47:23
This shows not only how to do it, but also kind of the method behind the madness, you know, how I’m doing it, how I’m scheduling things out, how I’m using chat GPT. um So yeah, create the course, get paid to post and uh put on a whopping price tag of $97 just because I want to create something where I’m like, Hey, lower barrier entry for people that want to get in just and just go through it and then start taking action. What’s the URL? actually Googled it. I couldn’t find it. What’s up?

47:53
What’s the URL? um It is under Jeff and Mandy Rose dot com slash. OK, OK. So you can tell this isn’t planned. This is not a promotional podcast, by the way. Jeff doesn’t even know the freaking URL of his. uh I will post it. Jeff and Mandy Rose dot com. I don’t even know the URL. Actually, if I go to Jeff and Mandy Rose, it’s Mandy’s uh class, not yours. Well, she has hers.

48:23
But hers is the front. OK, hold on. You know what? OK, I will. is jeffandmandyrose.com for slash get dash pay dash to dash post. OK, got it. to drive so many sales. OK, I’m going to post this link uh in the show notes. uh

48:46
Trust me guys, if you’re listening to this, is not, like this was probably not even intentional. He probably didn’t even know I was gonna ask. I just knew about it cause I was interested in this. So I will post the link in the show notes. Cause clearly Jeff was not prepared to sell anything today. But Jeff, this is pretty amazing stuff, man. I’ve known you for a long time. We’ve been blogging buddies forever. I want to say since like 2013 maybe, 2012. When did you start your blog? Like when did you actually launch it? You remember? 2009.

49:15
Okay, yeah, it was like the same year. That’s funny. Yeah, I think. Yeah, but I didn’t meet you, I don’t think until FinCon maybe. It was several years after that. Yeah, something like that. And it’s, guess now it’s all coming full circle. We’re gonna be Facebook buddies now.

49:35
But if you guys are listening out there, I will post this in the show notes. this almost honestly, Jeff sounds a little too good to be true. So I’m probably going to dip my toes in the water, kind of like you did last year and just see where this goes. Dude, I’m the same way, man. Like I didn’t, I didn’t believe it. Sometimes I still don’t, um you know, like I just record a video pretty recently, you know, where I just, said, matter of fact, like this year,

50:02
I will make almost $200,000 just from Facebook monetization. that’s from me finally going all in like in April, May. So it’s like, okay, 2026, seems like it’s gonna be a fun year, especially with like the big strategy for me going into the new year is like, how do I actually drive traffic to the blog?

50:28
And then, you know, it could be affiliates as well. I actually don’t want to mess with affiliates. Just I might might change my mind on that. But if I can just drive traffic and just add revenue to this thing, like I’m it’s just so much easier to do, you know? So, yeah, like two thousand twenty six, man, like there’s like a lot of a lot of fun potential here to see what happens. And I want to do this for my e-commerce store. Like there’s so much room for funny captions for the stuff I sell because you can write whatever you want in a hanky. And

50:58
I can just write some weird stuff on the hanky and have interesting captions. And that would probably drive people to the stores. Like there’s a lot of possibilities here. Yeah. Like, especially like if you had hankies with like funny captions, you know, it’s like a meme, it’s like, it’s your product. You’re certain, know, people, people will share that. And the cool thing is like you do it once and maybe it doesn’t work or maybe it does, guess what? A month from now, whatever you can repost the same dang thing. And it continues to serve the same purpose.

51:26
I mean, this will be really easy. You know, what’s funny is I’ve been like, on the fence about launching a TikTok channel for my store because like it, it doesn’t make sense for a middle aged Chinese dude to be hocking like wedding stuff. It should be my wife, but she wants no part of it. I actually started a YouTube channel for Bumblebee linens and I recorded like 11 videos. I still haven’t launched it yet where I was going to talk about some of the love stories that the people who bought our stuff.

51:53
probably gonna go live with that next year, but this sounds just like 20 times easier. And my face doesn’t have to be on it. I’ve wanted to do like reaction style videos, like just because I’ve, you know, like I’ve got the setup, you know, it feels like I should be doing that. And I just tried one, you know, it was a clip that went viral, gave my reaction to it. And I think it got, and that actually just went live like last week, I think it got like 20,000 views. I’m like,

52:22
Dang, you know, like, gosh, I want to do that, but then again, I could find a screenshot on Twitter, you know, and I post that and it gets like a million views. like, okay, all right, Facebook, hear it. And there might be some transition to where they will start rewarding people doing longer form content, maybe, you know, like, maybe it still makes sense to do that for like, you know, having the YouTube channel, like thought leadership and just, you know, maybe that still makes sense. But as far as like what I’m getting paid for, like,

52:52
It just does not make good financial sense. uh And with that pun, will end this episode. Jeff, thanks a lot for coming back on the show, man. Appreciate it. Happy to be here. Hope you enjoyed this episode. I’m in the process of getting this up and running right now and we’ll report back in a couple of months. For more information and resources, go over to mywifecoderjob.com slash episode 635. And once again, virtual tickets to seller summit 2026 are now on sale over at seller summit.com.

53:20
If you want to the latest and greatest strategies in e-commerce, then grab the recordings. Go to seller-summit.com. And if you’re interested in starting your own e-commerce store, head on over to mywifequitterjob.com and sign up for my free six-day mini course. Just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.

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634: Your Products Are Invisible to AI. The New Search Rules For 2026

634: Your Products Are Invisible to AI.  The New Search Rules For 2026

In this episode, Toni and I dig into Amazon’s decision to block AI tools from indexing their product listings and why itโ€™s a risky bet. We talk through how AI agents are quietly changing the way people research and buy products, and what that means for sellers who are still writing copy like it’s 2015. If you sell anything online, this conversation will change how you think about your product descriptions.

Enjoy the episode!

What You’ll Learn

  • How Shopping Has Changed
  • Smart Ways To Make Listings Ai-friendly For 2026 Search
  • Quick Tweaks That Boost Visibility Across AI Search Engines

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, Tony and I dig into Amazon’s decision to block AI tools from indexing their product listings and why it’s a risky bet. We talked through how AI agents are quietly changing the way people research and buy products and what this means for sellers who are still writing copy like it’s 2015. If you sell anything online, this conversation will change how you think about your product descriptions. But before we begin,

00:28
I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also,

00:57
I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250k or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:25
So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:36
Welcome back to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today we’re going to be talking about agentic commerce and specifically something just happened pretty recently where Amazon decided to block all AI and then there was this court case between Amazon and Perplexity where Perplexity lost and Perplexity has to delete all of the e-commerce and product listings from their entire database. m

02:03
pretty sure ProPlexity is just like the first AI company that they’ll have to do this with. Yeah, I I don’t want to go to court against Amazon, honestly. Well, no. For now. For now. I was thinking about this because it was a topic amongst some of my colleagues where you would think that it’s in Amazon’s best interests to let AI, you know, index their products so that they get more sales, right? Right.

02:32
But that’s not the case because Amazon’s main business now is not e-commerce. mean, they haven’t been growing for like the last, they’ve been growing, but they’ve been slowing down for the last several quarters now. And their cash cow now is advertising. But if you’re like a seller on Amazon, you just want more sales. You don’t care whether they come from.

02:58
Amazon or an agent recommending something right? Yeah Yeah, so my question is is there not a way for Amazon to work out a deal? perplexity or any other Service to where they can make money This way as well. I mean they’d have to work out something I don’t know the way it works now is They’ll do people do research on perplexity or chat to BT

03:28
And then they just go to Amazon anyway, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then recently, I think we talked about this last week, OpenAI dropped their strategy to allow checkout directly on AI. So I don’t know. It just this this makes me like dislike Amazon a lot. I mean, I kind of dislike Amazon. I kind of already dislike them. But this this makes it worse because this is like a

03:58
pretty blatant way for them to just control the seller. Yeah. At least in the past they could say, oh yeah, we were doing this for the sake of sellers, right? Yeah. Like some of their things. Like when they raise prices, they go, oh, we’re just using it to provide better service. Right. You don’t want FBA. Better technology. it’s like, does not help the seller at all. Yeah. This is just like a blatant thing. Well, but so, cause I don’t use perplexity, but I use chat GPT a lot as we’ve talked about a million times and

04:28
Sometimes what I will is if I’m researching something, right? I want to buy an inflatable air mattress. Let’s just say um I’m thinking about this because our friend Liz has like the best air mattress ever. And I was like, if I have to buy an air mattress, I want to buy this one because it doesn’t it doesn’t deflate while you sleep on it. But I’m probably going to go to chat and like talk through some things. And then sometimes chat will give you a link right to something. Sometimes it doesn’t. It just depends. But Amazon can’t block that or can it?

04:58
Well, that’s the point. the it’ll give you like that little that little bubble. You know what I mean? Like at the end of the sentence, like sometimes I’ll say like, hey, I want to go to I want to take a train from, you know, Spain to Portugal. Where can I where can I find this? And they’ll give me like a little link to like a couple of different train services. Right. So is that getting blocked from what I understand? All information that was scraped on the Amazon Web site.

05:28
is not going to show up anymore. I could be wrong. You know, what’s funny is like I use chat GPT practically every day. Yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen a single Amazon product mentioned. Well, yeah, I don’t know if I have either because I don’t typically research to buy directly on Amazon. I’m more looking at just like and then I’ll and then I’ll same thing you said, I’ll go type it in. But I do know that I get links from chat GPT all the time to products, websites, all that stuff. Right. Yeah, that’s what

05:57
that will go, if you were getting that, that goes away on perplexity. Because I do these searches all the time just to check where I’m at in there. And I check, I do e-commerce searches from time to time. But yeah, I see Walmart all the time. But I don’t think I’ve seen an Amazon link in like months. So yeah, I think they’re out of the database for LLMs. Okay, interesting. Yeah.

06:25
Okay, so here’s why this matters. I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question, Tony, but I’m just guessing that you haven’t been playing around with open claw at all. No, but I’m about to. just actually last, so I had dinner with a friend this weekend and he was going on and on and on about how he’s using uh Claude Cowork um and how it’s like the greatest thing, you know, and he’s in like hospital administration, like not, you know, not something that we do.

06:54
So I started playing around with that last night and then I was like, you know, I need to start like broadening my AI horizon. So that’s next on my list to get into. So yeah, um I’m excited. I’ll probably start looking at it this weekend. So the reason why I bring it up is because one of my friends here, in case you guys are listening to this, you have no idea what OpenClaw is. It’s basically like an agent that’s like your virtual AI assistant. Yeah. And you can tell it to do anything.

07:24
and it will go and figure out how to do it. So for example, so one of my friends, like he uses it to put together shopping lists, right? Like I wanna build a computer, find me the best components, and then his agent will go off and find those components using AI or, he has it hooked up to Claude. The point here is that now that it’s been blocked by Amazon,

07:51
That in theory means that no Amazon products will show up, right? Right, right. And presumably this might be like how a lot of people shop maybe in the next two to three years. Yes. So my first question is it’s interesting because you and I have talked about it a little bit on the podcast, but I hear people talking about it on like social media and stuff like that.

08:16
It feels like there’s two buckets of people just in general using this and it’s the people who are like your friends, right? Who are using it and loving it. I was talking to someone the other day and they’re like, yeah, I just say like, I have these four ingredients and I need recipes in a shopping list, know, like stuff like that, right? They’re using it to help them in their everyday activities. But then I’m seeing on social media people like travel agents, which of course this makes sense, who are like,

08:43
This is horrible. You’ll get booked in the wrong thing. Yeah, you’ll pay too much. And part of me is like, well, yeah, but you have a vested interest in this being bad. Right. Because if you can convince people that if they use this, you know, and a travel agent is free to write, um you know, they’re getting no one. They’re not free. Right. They’re getting a commission from the other side. You’re not paying them. Well, you technically are because the prices are more expensive because they have to pay the agent. Right.

09:10
Not no, not really, because like if you book through Expedia or you book through a travel agent, either Expedia has taken the commission or the travel agents taking the commission. You know what I mean? You’re saying it’s all built in. It’s all built in. Right. Because I’ve done like, you know, I love to travel. So I’ve done a lot of like tests on if I booked directly through the the hotel or airline. Right. Versus Expedia versus kayak versus, you know, I have I do have a travel agent that I’ve used in the past.

09:39
She actually usually gets me the best deal. So because she probably has access to sales that I don’t know about. um But they’re all saying, oh, if you do this, this is the one. And I’m apparently I’m friends with lot of travel agents because they seem to be the loudest on Facebook right now. It’s going to, you know, completely screw you over. You’re not going to get to your destination. You’re going to, know, this and that and the other. Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now, I sold one of my businesses through Quietlight.

10:07
And honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business. And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing

10:35
and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at QuietLight has built or sold businesses themselves. So when my advisor told me what needed to change, it was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from QuietLight will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested,

11:05
go over to quietlight.com. So, you know, I wonder, I don’t necessarily think that’s true, but I’m just curious as to whether who’s going to win that. think I think the travel agent loses in the end. Oh, yeah, for sure. All that’s going to get disrupted. I don’t like to sound doom and gloom, but yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I think this is going to be interesting to see how it plays out completely, right? Because if you just think about, OK, now Amazon can’t be shown.

11:35
Right, so you’re using whatever tool to help you build a computer, right? And now it can’t show Amazon products, so it’s having to pull from other websites, right? Might not be as good of a deal as Amazon, might be a better deal, might not be two days. Probably a better deal actually. yes, mean, true. you know, it’s like that, does that lessen the ability of these?

12:01
Agents right because it really isn’t I mean Amazon is a huge marketplace and I’m sure there are some things that are better deals um And does it mean that Walmart now, you know if they take the opposite actually, that’s a good point Yeah, you know because I mean I walmart’s like I do Walmart groceries and they are coming so hard for Amazon on Subscribe and save like every time I put paper towels in my cart They’re like would you like to subscribe and save this every time I put anytime I put a non-perishable in my cart

12:29
would you want to subscribe and save? And then it’s also like, and they don’t even, it’s not even two days shipping at Walmart, it’ll show up that day, almost everything, right? Because they’re just bringing it from the store. um So, I mean, does that mean that Walmart has, might have an advantage? I mean, it’s a risk. Have you used Rufus at all on Amazon? no, yes, yes, yes. Not enough to make, other than I don’t think it’s great.

12:57
Yeah, I was just thinking about this other, because that’s what they’re banking on, Right. People who want to shop will go and use Rufus to figure it out. And I played around with it. It’s like kind of hidden, right? It’s not like the default, especially not. I think you have to click this little tiny button. Yes, it’s not noticeable. I think it’s actually more noticeable on mobile, which makes sense. But so this is a huge risk on Amazon’s part, because if people are shopping on the LLMs and not Rufus,

13:26
You got to wonder why Rufus isn’t more widely exposed. I did see an article maybe a month ago saying Rufus was growing in leaps and bounds. Was it a press release? I don’t know. Maybe someone more familiar with Rufus, I should get to come on and talk about it. I’m probably not going to use Rufus mainly because I feel like all the reviews on Amazon are skewed anyway. I wouldn’t use Rufus.

13:55
So here’s the other thing, you and I are like so heavily biased against Amazon. That’s true. That’s true. Right. Because we sell on Amazon or I’ve sold on Amazon, you sell on Amazon and we talk to Amazon sellers all day, every day. Right. And we know that Amazon does a lot of shady stuff. And so to me, why would I use Rufus when in my mind what Amazon is going to do is either put their own products, right, where the margins are the best or

14:24
they’re going to put someone that’s like paid to be recommended. Right. I just feel like I don’t trust Amazon to give me any. I prefer to trust people on TikTok that are telling me to go on Amazon and buy something. You know what I mean? Like that’s that’s the point that I’ve gotten to. Yeah. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of.

14:52
If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in eCommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away.

15:20
Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. I mean, I guess if you’re an e-commerce store owner listening to this, you need to be optimizing both your website and your Amazon listings for AI now, uh especially on your website. And what does that mean basically? It means uh tapping into the emotions of your customer, right?

15:48
Like back in the day, it was all about keywords and whatnot, so you could rank in Google. But that’s changing now. You have to figure out what the true intent, what the customer is thinking when they’re shopping, and just make sure that is all in your product description, on your website, and read in by the AIs in order to show up. Yeah, in my mind, this circles back to a, your product solves a problem.

16:16
So your copy needs to be the problem solving copy, right? Like they don’t actually want an apple peeler, right? They want a fresh apple pie at Thanksgiving that their grandmother used to make. You know, that’s what you’re selling, right? You’re not just selling the apple peeler. And that’s what this feels like. It’s kind of coming all the way back around to is it feels like how we used to do things in, I don’t know, 2009, 2008, a long time ago.

16:47
Here’s the perfect example, because I was trying to do this little case study on t shirts. And I noticed there was this Amazon listing that said, this shirt fits no matter how tall you are, whether you’re like six, five or whatnot. And I thought that was odd when I saw that. And they said something about being really stretchy and comfortable for tall people. And that’s when I realized that

17:16
their point of differentiation probably is people who are just tall and lanky, right? But they put that in the description. I thought you saying, that’s when I realized I couldn’t buy it. No, my search for t-shirts is I want to look uh more in shape than I really am and hide the Buddha belly. So that’s the t-shirt brand. Oh my gosh, they’re huge on Amazon. can’t, I’m completely blank. I buy them all the time. You’re talking about True Classic? Yes.

17:46
The true class. mean, that’s their whole that’s what they’ve built their branding on. I own several of them and they’re 30 bucks a piece and they are amazing. T-shirt. mean, like shout out to them for actually creating an awesome product that does what it says. And they last. I mean, I have some for Brian that are probably like two years old and they still look brand new. So shout out to true classics. But.

18:08
They do the same thing in their marketing, right? And they do the whole show, the person wearing like a regular t-shirt next to the person in the true classic, and they’re capitalizing on, you know, the non-sloppy look, right? Like that’s what they’re going after. And there was another line in this listing also that said something along the lines of, uh

18:32
you don’t get depressed looking at the mirror. It wasn’t that exact line, but it was something phrased like that, right? Like it makes me feel better whenever I look in the mirror in the morning. And it was a slightly rephrased line. And then I realized that these guys were just pulling stuff from their reviews and putting them in like their description. So that’s so interesting because I think I told you that I’m working with this ads company now who basically uses reviews to help write all the copy.

19:00
Yeah. Right. And they have an AI tool that I think it’s their proprietary thing. But I’m sure I’m sure you could code this up in an afternoon. I actually know because scraping Amazon reviews is like Amazon’s actively preventing that from happening. Yes. Sorry. This person is DTC, so they don’t have an Amazon store. So it’s scraping reviews on their website and basically using all of that copy in everything that we do now. So it’s really interesting to see how it’s even the shift

19:30
I we’ve always, you I think back when I met you, right? Like the whole thing was like, before you research or when you’re researching your product, read Amazon reviews. So it’s always been something that I’ve been ingrained to do is like look through reviews and use that to make decisions. And so it’s always been in copy, but not to the level where now we’re scraping every single review on the website and doing the same thing. Like when you look in the mirror, you know, same kind of thing. This, you know, changed our mornings, whatever.

19:59
the product might be, it’s basically all consumer generated. You know, we’re not at this point yet, obviously, in shopping. Like it’s mostly humans doing the shopping. But I’m just thinking like maybe two years out where maybe you want like an agent or whatever to take care of your shopping list, like maybe not make the final purchase, but just put together the shopping list. And I realized that back in the day, like when we shop,

20:26
we just look at the image and we go, okay, we want that. It’s kind of like an impulse buy. And we as humans just kind of fill in the blanks. We just kind of buy whatever we want. But when an AI is putting together the shopping list, like they don’t shop like humans. They need like all the information in order to make that decision. And so right now, and I was just looking around actually at uh some of the sites of my colleagues.

20:54
some of the sites of my students. And it’s really just like, they do really good job on the images. Yeah. Right. And they have a whole bunch of extra images. But in terms of the copy, well, we can use the t-shirt example, it might say, you know, 6040 cotton, cotton blend or whatever, cotton polyester blend. And they might have like the measurements and whatnot. But that’s it for the description. Yeah. Right. And going forward, assuming, you know, we have AI

21:23
put together shopping lists and whatnot, they’re going to be invisible unless they change that. Okay. So this gets me to another thought about all of this. You were talking about how agents doing your shopping, which I think makes a ton of sense for commodities, groceries, um household items, things like that. But how does that work for items that people buy because they make them feel good?

21:52
So I was thinking it’s not just commodities, right? Like, for example, I went to Claude the other day and I said, hey, do the research. I need a new router. Find me the best router that I can buy. That’s the best bang for the buck. And it went out and just did a whole bunch of research and it came back with one. Yeah. But it wasn’t on Amazon. It wasn’t on Amazon, but I was just looking for like, um I guess that’s not like a commodity. Maybe it is a commodity.

22:22
Maybe that I don’t know but like I feel like that there’s gonna be this huge line right between things like a router things like a ceiling fan um You know, obviously things like groceries uh You know staple goods and then there’s gonna be this whole other bucket of things right that I Don’t necessarily think that that can be bought for you, right? Okay, let’s just take clothing. Yeah, right. Yeah, so right now

22:51
My wife is using this service and I forget what the service is called, but you take a picture of yourself and you describe like your style and whatnot. And then AI goes out and puts together these outfits. And I think the value prop of this specific one is it’ll pick you 10 pieces that you can mix and match and it makes it look like you have this whole. So she’s doing that right now. And technically that’s not a uh commodity, right?

23:21
And it’s going out and grabbing a whole bunch of different outfits. She ultimately gets to choose, but it’s AI that finds the stuff. And if I can’t find a particular article, it’s not going to be part of the collection. Correct. Yeah. So I think I think that we’re going to see an increase in those sorts of things. Right. That’s going to get a lot bigger. It’s kind of like Stitch Fix on steroids. Right. Right. Because Stitch Fix, which I can’t say it Stitch Fix.

23:48
ah I mean, I think I tried it like 10 years ago. I got some stuff, but I felt like because you had like a consultant or a fashion person, like they just didn’t always like get it. You know, it depended on like some people I knew like had great results and other people I know did it. And I think that was really dependent on the quality of the person. Right. Well, AI removes that. Right. The quality is based on you and the input you’re giving to AI. Right. So the problem is you if you’re not getting.

24:16
what you want if you’re doing everything correctly. Actually, what it asks you for also is like just pictures of what you wear, right? So you just submit a bunch of pictures and it kind of gets an idea of what your style is. Yeah. I forgot your original point. You were saying like people. think this is we’re going to see a huge increase in services like this, right? We’re going to see companies that are AI based that are doing, you know, the same thing with like, you know, remember when all the.

24:42
bloggers, you know, built all these like recipe apps and like, oh, you know, recipe, you put your recipe in and it gets your ingredients in your shopping list. And like, you know, now that’s all just going to you don’t need to use an app. You can just literally open up chat, GPT, take a picture of your pantry. Right. So all those things are going to be that’s going to be just I don’t think that’s going to that’s going to get better and better. And I think that it’s actually a really good use case. What I think won’t change is like.

25:08
um And it’s changing and like think about the sites that allow you to try on like glasses Right on like you take a picture of your face and it puts all the glasses on you Yeah, you know so like that stuff’s just gonna get better and better because I remember when that first came out and you like put a pair of glasses on you’re like this doesn’t look good like because it’s just bad quality like it just wasn’t good quality right, but what I don’t think is gonna change is like the luxury side Right

25:36
So and I’m thinking if you sell or you’re thinking about getting into like the higher end products, right, because I don’t know if we always joke, we have totally different tick tock rhythms, algorithms, but I follow the baddie in a Benz guy who sells Mercedes. He’s in Georgia and he his tick tocks are just phenomenal, right? He’s a car salesman, but he has like perfected this like.

26:01
Yeah, people are like going to Georgia to buy a Mercedes from this guy when they could buy a Mercedes down the road in their town, right? Because he’s so fantastic. But there’s something about I think about Hermes, right? Like the handbags. Like there’s something about getting the appointment, going to the store, getting the glass of Prosecco. Right. And so I think some items, especially those higher end, AI is not going to people want someone to like cater to them and

26:31
pamper them and do that kind of stuff and they want that experience, um kind of like walking into the Apple store, right? Where there’s a guy in a blue shirt that runs up to you with an iPad and he’s like, let me help you with every single problem you’ve ever had in your life. You don’t know this because you’re an Android user. But like when you walk into an Apple store, you feel like they could fix your car if you needed to, right? Because they’re just all over you for that kind of stuff. So I think there’s gonna be this like big line where…

26:57
There’s a lot of things where AI is gonna be able to do almost all the heavy lifting and then there’s going to be this other luxury side of things where people want the engagement, they want the interaction. That’s why luxury travel, if you’re a luxury travel agent, you’re fine. Because people wanna be able to get on the phone with you when they’re stuck in the airport this week, right? We had like a million flight cancellations.

27:21
Like they want to be able to call Betty and be like, Betty, get me on a plane to whatever. And Betty’s like, I got you and gets the private jet or whatever. Right. So it’ll be interesting to see how this all like divides, because I think it’s going to be very two very different shopping experiences for people. Yeah. I mean, in-person shopping isn’t going away, but I’m just seeing more and more of a covering.

27:46
I mean, what percentage is the luxury goods market? I don’t know what that is, but it’s low. But if I was going to get into a business, it would be the luxury goods market at this point. Right. Actually, I saw a stat the other day where retail in-store sales have gone up year to year. Yeah. Maybe it’s because people are just tired and they want they crave like real life.

28:06
I don’t know. They want to fight for a card at Ross. What are you talking about? Well, the other part of that is I also saw this other statistic and I don’t want to butcher it because I can’t remember if it was the top one percent of the top 10 percent. But what I remember, I think, was the top one percent are responsible for 50 percent of the retail sales or something crazy like that. Yeah. And so I guess you’re fighting for all like the rich people. Yeah.

28:32
Well, I I saw a TikTok the other day from this guy and it was just like some I don’t know who he was, but it was basically like, don’t sell the poor people like basically they’re the worst customers, you know, and I’m sure I’m going to offend everybody. And I’m quoting him. Basically, they’re the worst customers are always dissatisfied. They want to nickel and dime you. um And he was like, create a brand where you sell to wealthy people and use the money that you make to invest in lower income communities. Right. So.

29:00
Right. You know, not and it was so it wasn’t a negative on people of lower income. was just like and I get that like back when we were like struggling, I was I wasn’t necessarily a picky shopper. But man, I was like, I will examine this jar of beans all day long to figure out if I should pay 68 cents or 62 cents, you know, for black beans in a can, because it was it was an impactful purchase to me. Right. um

29:27
So I do think there is something to be said about that. And you know, when you are, if you’re in the beginning stages of building a business, I also think this matters a lot with brand building. Right. I agree. Because like, I don’t need to research a cooler. I’m buying a Yeti. Right. Because I’m a Yeti loyalist. If I’m going to buy a cup, I’m buying a Stanley. Right. Or like my sister got me hooked on the Odwalla, like water straw bottles. Right. So.

29:56
It’s like the brand loyalty is crazy and I think that’s one way to help your business in spite of everything that goes on, right? Like if you have a lot of brand loyalty, it doesn’t matter how anything works, people are going to like buy from you. They’re just gonna research like, I need the 64 ounce cooler or the, know, whatever, that’s probably too small, but you know.

30:23
That’s where people are gonna be doing the research, what to buy from you, not if they should buy from you. Okay, so this is the part that’s been keeping me up at night. Like if AI is doing all those searches, or the bulk of them, let’s just say, right? Because why bother going through all that? I mean, some people like the research and whatnot, but like for me, I just wanna know what to buy, right? Well, if AI is making those decisions, then like the AI doesn’t care about your story. No.

30:52
they don’t care about any of stuff. And if it’s making decision, like all the work that you do for branding on your site and whatnot, like, does that even matter as much anymore if AI is making the decisions? You know what saying? Yeah. I mean, so how, but how is AI making the decision? Off of the copy. Right? No, but like, so if you wanted to buy something and I wanted to buy the same thing, right? You and I both wanted to buy a router.

31:21
This is actually a fan. just have come up with the best example probably ever on that I’ve ever come up with on the podcast. So you want to buy a router. I want to buy a router. We both go into whatever tool we’re using to buy this router. What you want in a router and what I want in a router is very different. I want a router that literally involves one one action of plugging in. It immediately is set up. There is nothing that I have to do.

31:50
There’s I don’t have to get on the phone with anybody. And you want a router that probably has very different features than what I want. Right. Like you’re you probably care about other things that I don’t even know exist. So are we assuming and I guess we are that AI knows that about me and knows that about you. And so when they go out to do the search and find the information, they are armed with that. Right. Because the best router for you is not the best router for me.

32:18
Right, but again, that’s all gonna be determined from the copy on the page, not some emotional, the router’s probably not a good example for emotional purchases anyways. It is, because I don’t wanna cry installing a router. I would presumably, like, you’ll give the AI the parameters, like, this is what I want, and it’ll go out and find it, right? The point is, is once it finds it, like, you’re not attached to that brand, because who cares, right? The AI’s making the decision, like,

32:47
All the little storytelling and all that stuff on the site doesn’t doesn’t matter. But does it is it the because here’s what I’m thinking. I feel like the brand storytelling doesn’t matter as much. Right. Like why you started the company, you know, who cares? But does the storytelling in the copy right of, you know, I was tired of buying routers that required a chemical or electrical engineering degree to install. Correct. Right. Right. That would work.

33:15
That’s where the story still matters, right? Because whereas your story would be like, tired of your neighbor stealing your internet or whatever, I don’t know. um I feel like the story matters, it just matters differently now. No, I agree. mean, basically everything needs to be AI readable and you need to spill out everything basically. Yeah. Right. In order for things to, for AI to make it a consideration. Yeah.

33:42
But there’s also something we said, like once you actually finally get that router choice and you buy it. Yeah, like there’s like I get attached to stuff when I do the research myself. Yeah. I read about the brand and I fall in love with the founder sometimes, you know. Yeah. There’s there’s actually a psychological word for that that’s completely escaping my mind. But yeah. OK, so you fall in love with stuff and the company and I’ll buy it based on that.

34:12
And I feel like that might be going away. And I know a lot of people shop from Bumble Bee Linens because like Jen is very personable. She handles customer service on occasion. And when she does, you know, it’s people buy because they like her and they know she’s going to follow through and make sure things are going to get delivered. Right. Yeah. It doesn’t care about any of that stuff. Right. I’m just like, I’m just thinking like maybe in the future, there’s going to be a break.

34:40
between it’s going to be harder to build a brand, guess is my point. Yes, I think so. But also this is when you first talked about when we first talked before we started recording that we were going to talk about this. My first thought was, but if everybody is using AI to write their listings like that’s immediately what I mean, that’s what I mean. I don’t know. I’m in like my Facebook feed is just all e-commerce ads right now of like.

35:09
programs and conferences and all this stuff. um So to me, it’s like, well, can’t AI just figure this all out on its own? Like if AI is writing the listing and AI is finding the buyers or finding the products. Like, I mean, seriously, it feels like this weird circle, right? This circular logic that. So does that mean you should? of content today, right? Right. So you should have AI writing your listings or you shouldn’t?

35:37
Right? Does that make a difference? I mean, we can talk about what to do now. By the way, there’s a couple of people covering this topic at Seller Summit, like the type of content you should write and how ranking in AI search works. Yeah. So if you guys are interested in that, pick up your ticket to Seller Summit, which is in April. But what I would do right now is we kind of talked about these examples in the pod already. Go through all of your reviews. Yeah.

36:04
and figure out all of the emotional language that people were using. Like that t-shirt example, right? Yeah. Like if you’re tall and lanky, put that in the description. Or uh that example about feeling better after looking in the mirror. Yeah. I mean, that’s probably something I pulled from true classic tees. I don’t remember anymore. Yeah, I’m sure it is. I’m sure it is. Yeah. Because that’s the type of questions. When I do a search now in AI, I don’t just type in wedding handkerchiefs.

36:33
I say something like I want a lasting keepsake for my wedding that my daughter will cherish and maybe pass down to her daughter or son or whatever. Right. Right. And that type of verbiage in a traditional old school e-commerce site where you just list this handkerchief is 11 inches square. Right. This is the fabric. This is the color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting. um I hadn’t thought this specifically about this, but

37:03
we’re going through like a big site redesign and we’re changing our listings and they’re actually gonna be a lot more like this. So I guess I was knowing it without knowing it. Yeah, like with the curriculums or whatever, like I’m sure there’s a lot of mental stuff. Like it’s a very emotional purchase actually, I think. Yeah, for sure. And right now we really only are like, this is 32 lessons, this is blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, eh, we need more. Right. You know, this isn’t gonna get people to.

37:31
Especially I feel like anything that comes to like with kids, right? Like raising your kids or impacting your kids. People get very emotional with the not necessarily like sad or happy, but like they’re very emotionally invested in what a product can do for their kids. Yeah. So if we were just kind of circle back to the original Amazon story, Amazon is forcing us to do this twice now on our own website and Amazon. Yeah.

38:00
Because I guess in theory Amazon’s not picking up any of Amazon’s stuff. I mean, they’ve already blocked the AI LLMs already. They did that long ago. This core case that they wanted perplexity, I’m sure it’s just tip of the iceberg. I’m sure they’re going to force all the other LLMs to remove all of Amazon’s data. And so we’ll have two silos, I guess, right? One’s your website and one’s Amazon and Amazon’s betting that people will use Rufus. It remains to be seen what’s going to happen there.

38:30
Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’re not optimizing for AI, you’re going to be in trouble very soon. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 634. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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633: A Simple Meta Ads Change That Will 10x Your Returns With Scott Cunningham

633: A Simple Meta Ads Change That Will 10x Your Returns With Scott Cunningham

In this episode Scott Cunningham and I dive into something that honestly changed everything for me when it comes to Meta ads and getting a real return on ad spend. Scott is the creator of the Storyselling Formula and the moment I came across his work I knew I had to bring him on to break it down properly.

Enjoy the episode!

What You’ll Learn

  • How To Apply StorySelling To Your Ads Strategy
  • Scott Cunninghamโ€™s Tested Ad Setup Hack
  • Quick Steps To Implement And Scale Meta Ads Fast

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, Scott Cunningham and I dive into something that honestly changed everything for me when it comes to meta ads and getting a real return on ad spin. Scott is the creator of the story selling formula. And the moment I came across his work, I knew I had to bring him on to break it down properly. And it’s a simple change. And I know that sounds like a big claim, but I’ve seen it work across so many different campaigns and niches.

00:28
that I had to make a whole episode about it. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses.

00:57
no corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers.

01:26
Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be. So if you want in, go over to SellersSummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:39
Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job podcast. Today I am excited to have Scott Cunningham on the show. Now, Scott and I, we were on the same panel at one of Kevin King’s virtual events and I’m really glad that we met. Scott runs merchantmastery.io where he helps early stage Shopify stores, actually Shopify stores at any stage really, reach their first 100K month through a strategy that we are gonna be talking about today on the podcast. He’s been an e-comm for over 15 years and his focus is on

02:09
customer centric marketing using human psychology, which is actually one of my favorite topics to make advertising much more effective. He’s spoken all over the place, traffic conversions, Adworld, Affiliate Summit. And in this episode, we’re just going to talk about what’s going on right now, what he’s doing with his clients to grow sales. And with that, welcome to the show, Scott, how you doing? Steve, what’s up? So good to see you again, my friend. Really happy to be here.

02:35
Yeah, I know you’ve been on this tear traveling all over the place like going on tour like a rock star. It’s fun. Yeah, we honestly, you know, yeah, I was telling you a little bit earlier about how we do like this tour, we’re hosting Shopify meetups, we really do believe in community. And like we go to a lot of the same cities every year. And so like, I was just out in like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, I’m going to Montreal tomorrow.

03:01
And we start to like really meet, like we’ve been doing this for five years in these same cities and we build friends and like collaborators and like, it’s been really interesting watching the community grow. yeah, it’s a lot of fun. Probably my favorite part of the business is just like going around all these different cities, learning all these, about what all these different entrepreneurs are doing. And who would have known that Canadian cities have such large volumes of Shopify stores? Never would have thought it. Yeah, it’s like, you know, I don’t know if you knew this one, but Shopify was born in Canada.

03:31
That I knew. I don’t know if that’s the reason. It also surprises me too because we’ve hosted events in New York a lot, which are very busy, very, very active. We’ve hosted them in Los Angeles and San Diego and all over the US, Colorado, Charlotte, Nashville, you name it. And we do recognize when we go to the Canadian cities, it’s I don’t know if it’s equal to New York or even busier than New York. It’s really, really vibrant up here.

04:00
really, really vibrant. So Scott, I know you studied psychology in school. uh How did you get started with e-commerce and do you sell today actually? Yeah, do I sell like my own products? Anything? Yeah, like I’m like, here, here. So here, I’ll basically give you a little bit of history. Like, okay, I studied psychology like way back in the day in university. There was like a class at the end of my degree that was like psychology and advertising. And that’s when I was like really fascinated with how to build a career out of

04:28
like psychology and I always found it fascinating to motivate people and get them to do things that are good for them. So I really believe that selling is like a responsibility. Like you could build the tools to sell, but if you’re not selling something that’s going to help people, then it’s not as good, right? So I really do believe in working with brands that actually have product validation, really good products. And we always tell people, like, if you haven’t sold your products to people and you haven’t confirmed that they like what you sell, we can’t help you yet.

04:57
Yeah, we’re not trying to trick people into selling. We’re trying to get good products in good customers hands and everybody’s happy. So yeah, anyway, I kind of like, you know, I went on to study public relations and then I was working in digital communications. I worked for like a giant brick and mortar store, helping them build their first e-commerce site. And then and then I just became like an accidental entrepreneur at that point. Like someone was like, hey, you did it for this store. Can you do it for mine? Next thing I know, I have like seven clients and I had to hire someone to help me. Nice.

05:26
Right? So that’s kind of how it all started. But yeah, I think the customer centric psychology is still most prominent thing today. So it’s funny what you just said, you know, we’re at this point right now where Amazon is getting way harder. In fact, they just announced price increases for 2026, which is going to hurt beauty and apparel a lot. So it’s more expensive products are getting knocked off. And at least in my community, which is composed of both Amazon and Shopify sellers,

05:54
I’m getting a lot more comments like, hey, I got to focus on my own brand. I got to get on Shopify. uh But know, success on your own store is a completely different ballgame than Amazon, right? And so my first question to you is, do you think that all Amazon products that are selling really well on Amazon can actually succeed on Shopify? Or does your product need certain characteristics in order to succeed? I wouldn’t throw out a generalization, say everyone could succeed on Shopify.

06:24
But if you have a lot of validation on Amazon, I feel like there’s a high likelihood you could also succeed on Shopify. Okay. Okay. But the key is like, you know, the biggest difference between Shopify and Amazon, right? Like Amazon comes with a built in marketplace of shoppers who are looking for products. Yep. So that’s the advantage. The disadvantage is that Amazon owns the customer relationship. So you don’t get to grow your own email list. You don’t get to grow your own life. You’re not in control of your lifetime value as much.

06:53
Right? There’s obviously like subscribe and save and like there’s ways to build repeat customers, but you’re not as in control when you don’t own the email list. Right? And so that’s the disadvantage on Shopify. The great advantage is that you own the list. So you own the entire customer lifetime value opportunity. You own the whole customer journey. The disadvantage is there’s no, there’s no built in marketplace. Right? So you got to go out there and find customers and like get them to your website. And so the way that.

07:19
The way that you do that in the Shopify world, the way that we’ve done it very effectively is like I was saying earlier, is like, or what you were saying earlier as well, is understanding the customers, understanding their pain points, their motives, creating content that like really resonates with the pain points that they’re living with and telling your story and compelling people to say, I got to check this out. And so it kind of forces you to be a really good like marketer, storyteller, like to really

07:47
dial in the benefits of your products. Whereas on Amazon, you’re just like, yeah, here’s everything about our product. Here’s the features, here’s what it does. And you can like choose what’s your best option based on the reviews and a couple other things. Yeah, a lot of it’s keyword focused. Keyword focused, Discoverability based on keywords. And so on Shopify, you’re kind of forced to do the hard thing, which is like sell your products in a really desirable way.

08:11
And if you could do that, like if you could take your success on Amazon and then build a story around your brand, you could probably have success on Shopify too. And it would probably leak into your Amazon sales too. It always does. It always does. So what I want to do today is I want to walk through your process and let’s just make up like a mock product and let’s walk through your process on how someone who’s starting from ground zero can get their first sales. Yeah, let’s do that. I love that idea.

08:40
Okay, so what product shall we choose? Let’s stay away from supplements, beauty, and whatnot. Anything strike your mind? What you’ve been working with the client or anything like that? How about double-sided wooden puzzles? Okay, that sounds interesting. yeah. Okay, this is actually a real merchant I’ve been working with and I’m fascinated by his business. His name is Oleg, he lives in Calgary. He’s got a business called Palmerus Puzzles. Okay. And I was really just going through the process with him and others.

09:08
on how to launch. And I was just really impressed with all the work he did. Okay, so that’s great. It’s fresh in your mind. Okay, so these puzzles just, so I imagine they’re both sides and then do they have to, do they only fit one way or when you finish one side is the other side automatically done also? It is automatically done also. But what you would do is you build the puzzle and sorry, back up for a second. Both sides of the puzzle, he works with real artists. Okay. gets these artists to create the designs for both sides.

09:39
And essentially when you build one, you’re done. You can like break it apart and then do the other side if you want. But a lot of his customers, like he has a really raving fan base and like his customers will buy every puzzle he puts out. And a lot of the times they will finish the puzzle and they will, they’ll hang it on the wall as an artwork. Oh wow. It’s really premium poplar wood. See, I was just going through this process with him, but like they’re, really high end collector type product.

10:06
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

10:34
And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quietlight has built or sold businesses themselves. So my advisor told me what needed to change. It was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quietlight

11:04
will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. Okay, I can see the value props already. So, okay, so he goes to you, he has these puzzles. What did you, like how did you extract all this information out of him? And what did you do with it? Okay, so here I’m gonna start with, think, if you were, if this is for anybody, hey, you’re on Amazon, you’re going to Shopify, or you’re just only on Shopify. The way to win, okay, so there’s so many like,

11:33
changing variables in the world. You just said it, Amazon prices are going up. Oh my goodness, that’s going to kill so many Amazon businesses. The same thing happens with us in our Shopify world. Facebook ads are going up. Things are always getting harder. There’s economic downturns, there’s tariffs that we don’t know anything about, there’s AI innovations that we feel like we need to get on. There’s all these changing dynamics. The thing that you really need to do to really just thrive in any of these scenarios is double down on your own value.

12:02
Okay? And so if you want to compete in Shopify, it’s all about perception of value. And so the first thing you need to consider is like, how do I position my brand as a category of one? The best at satisfying my customers most prominent desires better than anybody who’s come before me. So it’s like, you know, so it starts with understanding what is your customer’s most prominent desire. Everybody who sells a product helps satisfy like a series of desires.

12:29
You got to understand what’s the most prominent one that they have right now. Because we’re not trying to force people to care about what we have. That’s a long sales cycle to try and get people to care. The fastest way to a sale is to tap into what they already care about and direct that desire on your product. So how did you figure that out in terms of these puzzles? Yeah, and so it’s really like…

12:55
You know, it’s kind of like I basically the first step I always start with is going through the desires. OK, and then once I know the desires, I teach these like four different types of what I call category of one headlines. OK, the position you is unlike anybody else. So when I say category of headline, that’s like the first pitch in the message. So if you if you had a Facebook ad, that would be the first piece of body copy that you would see. And the category of one, I always have this test. like if if a competitor can say it.

13:24
It’s not category one. So you have to say it in a way that’s never been said that’s unique to you. Okay. But it starts with a desire. So you would usually look at like, okay, puzzles. um What type of desire does my customer have? And honestly, a lot of these desire training that I’m going to go through right now, I got from one of the best copywriting books ever written. It’s written by Eugene Schwartz in 1966. It’s called Breakthrough Advertising. Okay. Have you heard of that one?

13:52
I’ve heard of it, but I’ve never read it. Is it uh still applicable to today? Obviously it is actually, otherwise you wouldn’t be saying it. It really is. It really is. And I’ve worked with a lot of my own mentors over the years, like Ryan Dice and Sam Huggins and a lot of these mentors I’ve worked with over the years. oh Almost all of them refer to this book as the best copywriting book. Okay, wow. Okay, that’s quite an endorsement. Okay. It is. It is. It is. And if you go online and look up this book, it’s like a thousand dollars on Amazon.

14:21
but you can find it for $200 from like a publisher that got the rights to sell it. So I was able to buy a copy for $200. It’s very best $200 you’ll ever spend. Okay. But in the book, and I’m not going go through like the whole book, but and I don’t use the whole book’s framework, but I use the part where he talks about identifying the most prominent desire. Okay. And so basically desires come from four buckets. Okay. And so like everybody who sells a product, you, you satisfy many desires for a customer, but we need to like brainstorm what they are.

14:50
So they come from four buckets. Two of them come from permanent forces in the world. The other two come from changing forces in the world.

15:01
I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free.

15:30
just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. And so the two that come from the permanent forces, it’s mass instinct. Okay, so mass instincts are things that humans have had from the beginning of time. Connectivity, love, wealth, health, success, know, family, mass instincts. Okay, the other type of permanent force

15:59
is what he calls it the technology problem, I’m going to call it the innovation problem. It basically means I have a problem right now. Say I have eczema for my skin. I know we say eczema here in Canada, but I like to cater my language to the American. Okay, so eczema, right? I got eczema. I can’t solve it. So it’s like, I will buy and keep buying and buying and buying until I find something that actually has a solution.

16:27
So like he talks about Tylenol in the book where it’s like, you could get rid of your headache in 24 hours. That’s what they could do with Tylenol back in 1966, 24 hours to get rid of your headache. And so it’s like, I have a headache, but I need to get rid of it faster. Like I can’t endure 24 hours of pain. So I’m going to keep buying and buying and buying until I find something that solves it. So those are the permanent forces, massed instincts and innovation problem, as I call it. And then the next two, the changing forces are trends, trends that you piggyback off of where it’s like,

16:57
It’s things like buying face masks during COVID. It’s doing a tariff sale during tariff season. It’s like piggybacking off things that are happening in the world. It’s selling K-pop Demon Hunter t-shirts on a drop shipping website because it’s the hottest movie. And so it’s things like that for trends. And then last category is mass education. Mass education means what does my customer base understand about my product category today?

17:26
that they didn’t know about 10 years ago. So it’s the sum of all marketing, all advertising, all word of mouth, everything that people come to like mature in their understanding about a topic. And so in the book, he talks about like cigarettes where it’s like, when they first started selling cigarettes in marketing, was like doctors selling them like the best, the best cigarettes for doctors. And then, you know, this many years later, we know that cigarettes aren’t that good for you. And so it’s understanding that the evolution of perceptions.

17:55
about your product category. And so what you basically do is you brainstorm all of these categories. so have like, you know, puzzles, what’s the mass instinct, connectivity. Okay, so it’s like connectivity, family, hobbies, memories. Okay, and then you go down to the innovation problem. And it’s like, well, puzzle lovers buy these puzzles, but they like lose pieces, they get soggy, they collect dust on the shelf after they’re done.

18:24
They’re not that excited about them anymore. They’ve lost the novelty. And so now we can say, well, you’re going to get this something you’ve never seen. It’s the best puzzle. It’s double-sided. You can keep reusing it and all these other benefits. OK, that’s an interesting thing that I didn’t actually think about at first glance, which is the community and family aspect of puzzles. That’s a great angle.

18:45
Yeah, yeah, so that that’s the family one. That’s the mass instinct. The innovation problem is like we have a better novel thing that people will actually get excited about. The jaws will be dropping the floor. Okay, and then the next two is the trend where it’s like maybe maybe like these like crafty hobbies are a popular thing that people are doing again or like maybe puzzle makes making a comeback because of screen time. That would be a good trend actually. right. Okay, so it’s like avoid screen time. That would be a trend and then mass education.

19:14
would be something like, that could tie in as well, but it could be just something like, it’s been proven that the benefits of puzzle make more memories and kind of that sort of thing. And so then what you would do is you’d have this list of all these desires from each of those four sections and you would grade them. You would say which one has the most intensity and urgency to solve right now? Okay, which one has the most staying power? Like it’s not just the fat, it’s gonna be something that people need to keep solving.

19:41
and which one has the biggest scope where the most people that you sell to share that same desire. And then you pick your design. Is this something that you can just kind of plug into AI and have them write it or is it always better to just do it from your own personality and your own opinions? Okay, so I didn’t tell you this. I don’t think I’ve ever told you this and I’ve really had some good conversations since we met on that panel. But I built an AI called the Story Selling AI.

20:10
Okay, nice. Nice. And so like, I have the book actually somewhere near me here, the breakthrough advertising. earlier this year, between January and March, I taught a three month course on like how to write copy to sell your products based on the desires, based on the differentiation, based on the category one. And there was a lot of people in our community that went through the training and got amazing results. And then there was whole bunch of other people who were like Scott.

20:39
I can’t do this. Like, I’m not a natural copywriter. English isn’t my first language. You make this look easy. And I was like, okay, I got it. Like my duty to our community is always like, how do I make everything easier, but not just easier, better? Like I can’t have them use chat, GBT, it produces some garbage. Right. And so when I was teaching like the copywriting course, I told everyone, I’m like, listen, if you try to use AI for this, the problem with AI is it’s going to, it’s only regurgitating things that other people have already said.

21:08
And to have a true breakthrough ad, as Eugene calls it, like breakthrough ad, you need to say it in a way nobody’s ever said. And so I was really trying to caution people. like, you don’t, you want to use AI as a brainstorming partner, but not to create your headlines. And so what I ended up doing anyway, so a lot of people were like, I got good results or I couldn’t complete it. So I took the entire course. I spent like six months doing this. I built a custom GPT that interviews you. it’s, so I taught the

21:35
the AI to not take what’s out on the internet to only take from what the participant is sharing. Okay. And so it interviews you. It’ll be like, you know, what’s the top desire? What’s the like, it goes through this like unsolved desire, the final fix, it goes through your unique mechanism, it goes through like your origin story, it goes through like your features and benefits comparison to others. It goes through like all these questions that you answer. And then it mocks up drafts of each section based on like formulas, templates, examples I’ve given it.

22:05
I uploaded like 40 pages of instructions on what to produce once it has the information. Right. Nice. And I imagine that’s proprietary to your community, right? That custom UDPT? It’s proprietary to our community, but I will share it. I will share it with you guys today if you want. Oh, wow. Cool. Awesome. Okay. So, okay. We figured out the desires and whatnot. oh What is your usual next step? Is it meta ads or? Yeah. So,

22:31
I won’t go as deep because the reason I went so deep on the desires is like if you don’t get the desire right, everything else fails. Okay. So that is like in breakthrough advertising, they didn’t have Facebook ads back in those days, right? But they would write these long form ads and they would spend six months making the perfect long form ad that goes out in a magazine and it’s direct response. They’re trying to get people to read the magazine article and go buy. So the desire had to be perfect. In our world with Facebook ads, we can test this.

22:59
for a week and if it doesn’t work, we can test it again, right? So we’re a little bit spoiled now. But the desire is really important. So that’s why I spend a lot of time there. Once you have the desire, you use that to create a five-part messaging framework. It’s the category of one headline where you’re tapping into the raw desire, demonstrating how you solve that better than anyone else. Okay? And then it goes into the origin story. And the origin story, I have this like five-part origin story framework where it’s like the struggle, the journey, the spider bite, the revelation, the impact.

23:29
And what the origin story is ultimately showing, and this is really good for people going from Amazon to Shopify, is showing that, hey, I was just like you. I had the same problem as you. I recognized the problem. I searched the world for solution. I found nothing. I was fed up. I decided to be the person who was going to solve this. I traveled great lengths across the world and climbed mountains, swam oceans, almost drowned, got back up, and I solved it. And then people are like, okay, once you hear that kind of origin story, you’re like,

23:59
I’m trying to solve that. This person did all the research one could ever do. I don’t know any further. And so you’re trying to position yourself in the category nerd who fought the hardest to bring the solution to your customer base. Let’s say you’re interested in your story. Isn’t that interesting? It sounds like with this puzzle person, definitely they probably have some sort of backstory. What about someone who just sells like, I don’t know, garlic presses online? They probably didn’t have this revelation. They probably just noticed that

24:26
You it had good search volume at the time and not a lot of competition. think, I think that that is a formula for eventual failure. Okay. Okay. Like I think it is, I think it is. I just like, you should try and challenge the status quo on your category. Right.

24:49
Okay, I think that’s I started out with that first question. it seems like the people, the brands that you work with are people that are creating something new and not necessarily novel, but something different, right? Yeah. Well, okay. So like I also have nothing against someone choosing to sell a garlic press because it’s trendy. I have nothing against that. But I think that once you get that validation that you’re in the, you’re in the market, you’re a competitor, like you’re selling.

25:17
Do you want a business model that just waits till that product dwindles down and then you go and jump on the next one and you jump on the next one? Or do you want to stay in that category and keep competing? Right. Right. So like, I think it’s always like if you’re just looking for the next hot item and you keep chasing the next hot item, it’s like success one day goes down and you’re just chasing this hamster wheel. Yeah. But I think if you prove, hey, I’m actually pretty good at selling garlic presses, let’s commit to this and make our products better.

25:46
Let’s look at what the competition is doing and provide better solutions. So I like the idea of using that Amazon process to validate, get some momentum, get in the game. But if you want to stay and compete and become a brand, you got to challenge the status quo. You got to figure out what your unique value proposition is. Are you competing on price? Are you competing on the features, the benefits? What is it? Yeah. I’m curious, do all of your clients, are all of them like this? Because I have my own students that I teach Shopify also.

26:16
and lot of them struggle to go through this process because they don’t have like the story. They’re not, you know, you know what saying? So I’m just curious what you do. So if I had a dollar for every time a Shopify store owner told me they didn’t have an origin story, I can actually, wouldn’t even do what I’m Like we wouldn’t even be here today. I would just be retired on an island. Okay. So, so the truth is no one thinks they do, but I could tell you if you have product validation. So if you’ve sold your product.

26:45
to somebody and you’ve confirmed that they like what you sell, there’s a story there. Something must have led you there. Right. Because you’ll be better at selling your garlic press better than I ever would. I know nothing about garlic presses. Right. So something must have led you to that product. No. And you just got to kind of like document the story. I got this guy we worked with. His name’s his name’s Rodrigo. America. American Vinegar Works Vinegar Works. You can check out his website. He’s we met him through this organization called

27:15
uh Shopify for startups where they recruit the next up and coming Shopify like success stories and so they have to meet this criteria of like good merchant good products. He met all that criteria. They used to always recommend people from that community come over to merchant mastery and when I when we met him we were like, oh wow Rodrigo is amazing like he was doing the work he was implementing but then when he launched ads he wasn’t getting like he what he was like 0.5 ROAS is the best he could do so that’s not even breaking even.

27:45
that one row as a break even. And so we audited his ads and we were like, what’s going on here? You’re not doing anything with the origin story. Can you guess what he told us? I don’t have a unique origin story. And this is an extreme example because you’re going to see that we uncovered that he had the most remarkable origin story, but he didn’t see that he did. So we’re like, what led you to selling vinegar, Rodrigo? Because in my lifetime, I would never do that. I would never choose to sell vinegar in my lifetime. So what led you there?

28:14
And he’s like, well, to be honest, I kind of noticed that like vinegar was bland. OK, OK. So that’s that’s a thought. He’s like vinegar was kind of bland. I didn’t really like the options. That’s what he said. Right. And he’s like, so I thought like, you know, I was he’s like, I was in France and I went into this like library and I found this encyclopedia that showed this like old method from the 1800s on how to ferment vinegar in these barrels. And so I consulted the University of Massachusetts to see if they can mimic this process. And we built this facility.

28:43
Now I ferment my vinegar for nine days at a time and it has these bold flavors and all these kinds of things. When you hear that story, like obviously it’s pretty remarkable, I can’t believe he didn’t recognize it that was remarkable. Yeah. You’re like, I got to try that vinegar. Yeah. It’s funny, like when you’re deep in the weeds yourself, you don’t think anything that you do is really special when in fact it really is. That’s it. And he was an extreme example, but I can list a hundred more who are just kind of like, I’m going to sell this thing.

29:12
But it’s still fascinating. Like what in your life made you choose that category? What expertise did you have? What kind of desire drew you to that topic? Okay. The AI tool will really help write your origin story. Okay. With a few inputs. Like it asks you a few questions and it produces something pretty good. So in terms of, so we’re doing all this research right now, coming with the story, the desires and everything. uh What medium do you usually advise people go through next? Organic?

29:42
content, meta ads, is there’s probably more to this framework. Maybe we should finish that up first. The next three are easy. The first two were difficult, right? The category of one headline, we got to understand the customer psychology, the four buckets of desires, like grading the desires. That’s like a lengthy process. The origin story, we got to document how we led to this. The next three are easy. It’s the differentiation stack, which just compares your features, your benefits, your customer support to the alternative. Okay.

30:11
It’s like they do it this way. Well, we do it that way. Most most big box stores that sell vinegar are like not fermented all this. We do nine day fermented small batch like you’re just comparing. And then and then so it goes category one headline origin story differentiation stack testimonial stack where it’s you want to include testimonials that overcome the four biggest objections like price, trust, loyalty. And there’s one more. But then and then the last thing is the offer where you want to reduce risk or add an incentive for them to take action. OK.

30:39
Okay? And so I call this like your master story. If you have those five ingredients, you’re equipped to pitch your product as a category of one better than anyone else who’s coming for you. And so now to catch up with your second question is like, what do we do with it? What do we do with the master story? So this AI tool I’ll share with you. think it’s merchantmaster.io forward slash GPT. That might take you right to the AI tool. Okay. I’ll link that. Yeah. then basically you get the master story and then you want to use different parts of the story.

31:09
on your homepage, on your collection page, on your product page on Shopify. You want to use that narrative in your email flow so that when people arrive, they’re going through your email sequence with the same narrative. But ultimately the way that we’re acquiring customers in our world, like as long as you have any kind of validation, so you’ve sold on Amazon, you’ve sold at a farmer’s market, you’ve sold in person, you’re ready to launch ads, in my opinion, as long as you have validation. And so that’s what we like to do in the beginning. If you were just doing organic social posting, you’re going to be

31:38
spending forever with a lot of inputs for not that many outputs. And so we like organic social, we want to do it, but we want to start getting validation, a little bit of sales momentum with ads. Okay. All right. So naturally with the type of advertising or the work that we’ve done, meta ads is the obvious choice, Not Google ads, which is more keyword and search focus. Yeah, exactly.

32:06
This is a good lesson for anyone. I know you’re a Shopify guy. I know you got your brand and I know you got your community. But for anyone, I know like in Kevin King’s community and Norm, like it’s a lot of people sell on Amazon. And I think this is one of the key things to learn is that when we want to start an ad campaign, we want to start on a platform like Meta that we call like an interruptive channel. So it’s an interruptive channel. People aren’t searching for wooden puzzles or vinegar on Facebook. There’s no keyword searches. Right. So if we can get in front of the right people.

32:36
with the right pitch, like the right messaging, the right story, and compel them to stop what they’re doing on Facebook, which is like liking friends’ photos and consuming news or whatever they’re doing. we compel them to stop what they’re doing and come by, we know we have a good job. We’ve done a good job with our pitch. And then we would add on a channel like Google afterwards, where it’s like, we know we kick butt with our messaging, because on Google, you’re going after that high intent traffic, and if your positioning is not good, you’re going to lose to the competition.

33:05
If we know we can sell on Facebook, we know that that’s going to also do well on Google. Okay. uh I’m curious since uh Facebook recently announced a pretty big change in September, their Andromeda update. So I’m curious like what your ads and your campaign structure looks like today. Yeah, like they got rid of uh interest audiences, right? So that was the big shock to everybody’s system is that interest… I never using them anyway, so yeah.

33:34
We’re just doing open look alike. Yeah. Yeah. And open are great. Like we, we, we use a lot of interest audiences, but, but we know now with the whole meta ads update, all the targeting is done in the creative and the copy. Right. Okay. And so you’ve got to remember that it’s like, is, is my ad creative calling out my avatar and differentiating my product? That’s why this, this master story process that I was introducing you to in our world, we teach people to actually run an ad with the full long form.

34:04
Okay. Okay. And which means video basically, right? Uh, it means like the five parts, like headline, origin story, differentiation, testimony, offer. It’s like, it’s an, it’s a Facebook written ad, like this long. oh really? Okay. That’s very interesting because most ads that you see in the library do not do that. They don’t. And I can show you like, I had like 10 people in the last week tell me they have their best performing out of all time with this long form framework. Oh, that’s fascinating. Okay.

34:33
And it’s basically using the old Eugene Schwartz direct response marketing method, which is like tapping into their desire, heightening the emotion, heightening the urgency, compelling them to take action right now. And so it works really well when people read because it draws them in. It wins their attention, but it holds it. Right. Right. And so it’s a priming them to buy.

34:58
But it also, so obviously it works good when people are reading it, but it also works really well for targeting. Because you’re giving Facebook oh everything they need to know about what you sell to who, how much better it is, what it does. Like you’re feeding everything Facebook needs to know. What’s that going to add? I love it. Actually, I haven’t tried this before. I’ve been, yeah. Because what you’re describing, for me at least, I’ll do like a short video on it or I’ll have like a customer

35:28
you know, read off a script or something. But I kind of like that. I never thought to create long form copy in the actual ad itself. Yeah, and we usually take your so you’re not like we want to do the video too. We want to do take that long format, create a video version of it. But I would challenge you and encourage you to use the story selling AI to create your long form story with it. Okay, let me know how it goes. Does that imply then that like if you’re a brand new Shopify

35:54
store or like videos kind of intimidating. Does that imply that you can get good results with just image ads in this process? Yeah, like, okay, so here’s, here’s the other rule of thumb here. So not everybody’s going to read your long format, right? So it’s going to be really good at selling to the people who do. So it’s a good way to validate, does this narrative convert? So we like the readers are like our sample group, right?

36:18
And if it’s converting it, usually does. I’m feeling very confident that anybody who goes through that process runs a long format, it’s going to convert. If you do it the right way, I’ve had so much success with this long form style. And then we know, hey, this narrative sells. But now we want to capture the people who aren’t going to ever read a long format. And so we like to repurpose the long form into short form story ads, mid medium form, different carousel concepts.

36:48
static image concepts, video script concepts that also carry that same narrative. But I would try and test the long form copy ad with a still image, with a video, with UGC from the owner video, infographic, like I would test different creatives with the long form. I love it. I love it. Okay. All right. And so do you have multiple, I’m just thinking about like the meta ad structure. Are you just testing a whole bunch of different versions of your

37:17
your long form copy. Yeah. Where I what I’m trying to ask is, uh like, what is your ad structure? Do you test three creatives with two two long form copies or each each one only uses one creative one long format copy? Like what’s the testing structure? This is usually how we start up like a first time test like a first launch. We will come up with five versions of our ad copy. Okay. So we’re like, okay, we know we’re gonna get out there. We’re gonna launch.

37:47
And so I like to think about the first five ads as like, I use like a, I’m a Canadian, so I use like hockey analogy. Okay. Right. Where it’s like, that’s the bench. We warm the bench with the five ads that we think are going to perform the best. Okay. Okay. And then to go, to go on the ice, we start with two players on the ice first. Okay. So we’ve got a bench of ads that we think can perform and we’re only going to start with two in the beginning. Okay. All right. So.

38:17
Okay, so two ad copies. What about creatives? Yeah, okay. So we have the five ads we think we’re going to win. We have two that we’re going to put on the ice and we call these our best foot forward ads. Okay. So we have five ads that were pretty good and we tell people based on what you know about your customer, your insights, your instincts, what you’ve seen work before, pick two. If you were going to gamble your business on the two ads that you think are going to perform, pick those two to go on the ice first. Okay. Okay. And so you have your two versions of your copy.

38:46
You want to test each of those with three different creative. Okay. Okay. Yep. So it’s like two versions of the copy each one is and I would usually do like a from the owner video, a UGC and then like a static image or an infographic. Okay. Interesting. Okay. And then uh is this all going in one flex ad or are they individual ads? So this is okay. So now this is where I’m to have to go and talk to our media buyers. So this is like pre

39:16
meta update what we used to do. Okay. Okay. And so what we used to do is we would do it at the campaign level. So it’d be like a CBO campaign where the budget’s coming from the campaign level. Okay. And then we would have three, three ad sets. Okay. We would do interest, open, look like. Interesting. Yeah. think that might’ve changed. uh Yeah. At least for me, I can’t speak for everyone, obviously, but what’s worked has changed in like literally the last two months.

39:46
Yeah, and the advice is to put everything into one ad set. Yeah. Right. So that’s that is the update I was going to give. But it’s like, I don’t have the nuanced data to share with you about like, yeah, no problems. Yeah. Yeah. But like, but that is the advice now is just everything’s in one ad set. Okay. Yeah. And then so you’re running ads, would you advise like new Shopify store owners start on the organic or their resources better utilized elsewhere?

40:15
or just focus on putting out more creatives on a regular basis. Yeah, honestly, I meet some people who are like, I’ve all my sales organic. You know what they also tell me? It took me four years posting every day. Right? And so if you could endure four years of this, I don’t think organic is the best way to acquire customers first. Right. I would agree with that.

40:43
Yeah, and so we, really want to speed up the validation because if you’re posting organically, like not only is it not reaching that many people to start, we don’t know what messaging is going to get people moving. So it’s just like a really slow process of reaching people and validating what gets people to buy. And so ads are the fastest way to test what message compels people to shop. And so we, we, we would always start with like a really small, like $60 a day ad spend.

41:13
where our goal, excuse me, our goal is to break even on that spend within the first week. Yep. Right. then, and then we can stay in the game. But it’s, and then, and then we usually would like to scale that up to a bit. Once we start hitting like 10 K months and higher, then we know we’re like, built the prototype of the sales engine. We know the messaging works. We know we can grow this. That’s when we would start like layering on organic. So I think organic is, you can see my daughter running behind. That’s cool. Yeah.

41:40
There was uh a teacher strike in Alberta. So like all the teachers, all the kids, home right now. Okay. Wow. Because your postal system’s on strike too, you said, right? Yeah. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. But the big one for Alberta, not in all the provinces, our schools are completely shut down right now. That is nuts. Okay. The world we live in is like falling into chaos, feel. Yeah. And so, just to go back to what you’re saying, we like to…

42:09
Like if we want to build it on Shopify, we like to get the initial sales engine going with ads. We start to validate our messaging, get the website converting, get email performing, and then we know we have something. And then it’s like from there, we are going to start layering on social. Like social media is really good when you’re running ads for people vetting you. Like they’re like, well, who is this business? And they’re going to go look at your page. They’re going to see if you’re active. They’re going to see if you’re building community. It’s also really good for retention.

42:36
because they bought from you, they follow you on social media, they see that you’re active, that you’re staying top of mind. So it’s really good for like, like when they’re in the consideration stage before buying, and when they’ve already like, and they’re in like the repeat purchase opportunity mode. So really good for that. But then as you as you really start growing and your business is doing like a million and you want to get to 10 million, you need a very active organic social layer on top of that. Okay, so uh

43:05
So we talked about meta ads, we talked about organic, email is obviously a huge portion of all this. Are you guys using SMS in your flows and how does that compare with email for your Yeah, we do. Like our team, because we have Merchant Mastery, like our mentorship community, but I don’t know if you knew this, we also run an agency. Oh, I didn’t know that. Okay. Yeah. So we run an agency called Socialite that I founded in 2011. Oh, wow. Okay.

43:32
And we only work with like higher growth Shopify brands. So like, you know, there’s businesses doing anywhere from like 50 to 250 K a month in ad spend, I think upwards of maybe even half a million million maybe. Um, but so, so a lot of this stuff that we’re teaching at merchant mastery comes from our real world experience in running ads for all these brands. Okay. And so

43:57
We, our agency is like a top 3 % Google advertising partner. So we do a lot with Google. We’re a top Pinterest advertising partner, top meta advertising partner, but we’re also a, one of a few in the world of a Klaviyo like platinum diamond partner. Right. Nice. With exorbitant amount of sales and marketing with Klaviyo with email. And within that is not just email, it’s SMS. Right. And so with, with SMS, obviously you probably experienced this too, if you’re doing any SMS is it has higher open rates.

44:27
higher click through rates. um I think you need to, if you’re going to use it, start building your list as soon as you can. Yes. Right? But yes, I would say it’s been very effective and it’s more like it’s because in Klaviyo you can actually build your flow so that you can send out an email and if people don’t open, then you can follow up with an SMS. So yeah, we’re using both in the same automations.

44:49
Scott, I want to be respective of your time and clearly I didn’t realize all the businesses that you had. So why don’t you tell the audience where they can reach you? What all the different services that you offer? Yeah, I think like the way we really believe is like we’re here to help Shopify stores at any stage, like you said. And so most of the time, like with merchant mastery or socialite, we need businesses who have at least validation, but we even have

45:15
free training that we help people that don’t have validation. Like we try to help guide people at every stage. And so I think if you were a new business, we’d probably have some resources we could share. But if you’re a business who has product validation and you’re doing, you’re doing like sales somewhere, like you’re selling at a farmer’s market or Amazon. Yeah. Merchant Mastery might be a good fit. Merchantmastery.io is our website. And I think there’s like a free training on there in the top navigation bar. That might be a good place to check out. Where I actually go through this like story.

45:44
selling framework in that video. Right. And then if you were doing what was it like 100,000 a month, then the socialite? Yeah, our agency is like, you know how we built Merchant Mastery was because we’ve been Shopify partners since 2014. That’s when we’ve like really started getting involved with Shopify. And we started hosting the meetups and the events. And we started to build a pretty good reputation in the space. And we started to realize that there was a lot of early stage businesses that were approaching us that had no business hiring agency.

46:12
It’s like a lot of strain on a business hiring an agency too soon. So we were like, there’s so many great, great people coming to us. What do we do? Let’s maybe just teach them. So that’s how we built Merchant Master. We decided we’re going to teach people who shouldn’t be hiring an agency. Okay. And so I think when it comes to the agency, you want to be doing at least like probably 50K a month or trending towards that. Right. But I think the best time to hire an agency is probably when you’re closer to like 80 to 100K a month. I was going to say 50 is sounds a little low because you guys have to get paid too. So

46:41
It’s that bit. It’s like 50, 50 K only if we see that there’s like this upward trajectory, we’re about to just keep scaling it. Yeah. But if it’s like sales are declining, and you’re hitting 50 K, that’s a that’s a scary. Yep. Well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I love everything that you do. I love the way that you presented all the material today. Actually, it was great with the storytelling and the frameworks. And uh yeah, just

47:08
Thanks so much. I’m so glad that Kevin introduced the two of us. Oh, Steve, I appreciate you inviting me out. I appreciate having the conversation with you. And hey, man, we got to hang out some more. Absolutely. Yeah. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’re currently running meta ads, you have to try Scott’s method. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 633. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person,

47:37
in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to SellersSummit.com.

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632: The $7 Billion App Nobody’s Talking About (But You’re Already Addicted To)

632: The $7 Billion App Nobody's Talking About (But You're Already Addicted To)

In this episode, Toni and I dive into the $7 billion micro drama industry that’s already taken over China and is quietly making its way into American TikTok feeds. We break down the sneaky micropayment business model that gets viewers spending $30 to $40 without even realizing it, and why the same psychology works just as well for selling ecom products as it does for cheesy kung fu movies.ย 

What You’ll Learn

  • How these drama apps work
  • How to use this strategy to sell products
  • Why micropayments are the way to go

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, we are diving into the $7 billion micro drama industry that’s already taken over China and is quietly making its way into American TikTok feeds. We break down the sneaky micro payment business model that gets viewers spending 30 to 40 bucks without even realizing it and why the same psychology works just as well for selling e-commerce products as it does for cheesy kung fu movies.

00:28
But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:57
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:25
So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:36
Welcome back to the My Wife, Quit Her Job podcast. Today we’re going to be talking about something that has been coming up in my TikTok feed very often, and I’ve kind of gotten sucked in. And so I dug a little bit deeper and it turns out that there’s an industry behind this that is huge and it has ties to e-commerce as well. And so we’re going to be talking about micro dramas today. I actually thought you were joking when you said you wanted to talk about this. Okay. So first off, uh

02:05
for everyone listening, a micro drama. don’t know if you guys know this, if you’re on TikTok, you’ve probably gotten these already, but they’re these like little miniature movies filmed vertically where they’re like 60 episodes long and each episode is like three minutes. And the idea is it’s really cheesy stuff and it’s really meant, I think for women over the age of 35 or 40, but you watch and they give you like 10 episodes, but then they all end on a cliffhanger.

02:33
order to watch the next one, have to download this app where there’s all these little micro payments. Yes. And I feel like all the cliffhangers are the same where it’s like, she’s not the maid. She’s a princess and she’s your sister. I feel like that’s the cliffhanger. And then they’re like, did it insert a coin? OK, first of all, those aren’t the ones I’m watching. OK, that’s one of the ones that’s the ones that are my feed. You’re going to laugh at me, but OK.

02:59
I got sucked in in this kung fu movie. It is so bad. It is so bad because they like the words it’s like film like a traditional kung fu movie like the lips don’t match like the words and that’s what I grew up with right. And it’s like the series of battles like there’s this guy who who has no inner power or whatever and like and there’s a bunch of fights but like it always ends when he’s like in trouble or something. Yes. And then you need to watch the next one to see if he actually beats the guy.

03:29
So you know what these remind me of? And I didn’t, so I have these in my feed, but I didn’t realize until we just chatted that there was actually a whole uh economic ecosystem behind them. I just thought, so these, what these reminded me of, and I don’t know if you remember this, but you remember when like Kindles first came out and you could basically read.

03:51
like chapters of suspense or romance. then in order to like get the entire story, you had to buy the rest of the book, you know, or or or they would drip out like you get chapter one and chapter two, chapter three. And then eventually you had to pay to find out how it ends. So this is what since I’ve been seeing these, that’s what it reminds me of. It’s like the new version of these Kindle micro stories. But these are.

04:19
to me, so much more complex in the economics, right? Because the Kindle is pretty simple. Like if you wanna know the end, pay $1.99 and get the rest of the book, right? And then it’s like the transaction’s done. This is a lot more complicated. Well, let’s talk about the economics real quick before we talk about the Kung Fu movie that I’m… Yeah, that you’re currently binge watching. So this drama app revenue exceeded $7 billion last year in China. All this stuff always starts in China and it’s making its way into the United States.

04:49
And people say that it costs about a couple hundred thousand dollars to make, but like viewers end up spending 30 to 40 bucks because the payments come very gradually. It’s like, hey, 50 cents to watch the next episode or a quarter to watch the next episode. And before you know it, you know, by episode 60, you spent a whole bunch of money.

05:13
So how how’s the chew budget doing with this? How much have you spent? I have not spent any because if you wait long enough, OK, they’ll come out. But oh, so that’s another another feature. If you wait, then it’s kind of like if you want to watch something on demand, you have to pay for like the Hulu subscription. But if you want to wait till the next episode or whatever, you can watch it on regular TV. Well, that’s that’s some of them. Unfortunately, my Kung Fu one does not fall under that.

05:41
The Kung Fu one, you have to download an app where they bill you in order to watch it. I mean, they’re really addictive. Have you watched any? I’ve not watched any. I’ve not watched any to completion because I refuse to Well, not to completion, but have you gotten sucked in and watched like five episodes of Yes, yes. But mine are always the same thing where they’re treating the one girl really badly. And it’s like, you know.

06:07
It’s like, but you don’t really know who I am. And, you know, it’s all that stuff, which I’m like, we’re going to tell her she’s actually a princess of some country that they’ve made up and, know, that stuff. But yeah, so I but I never get to the end and then I get really angry and I was like, just wasted like 12 minutes, you know, clicking through to try to find the next episode. And then sometimes when I’m really desperate, I will search to see if someone’s like pirated an episode and put it on TikTok.

06:35
Like if I think there’s a twist or a cliffhanger. So anyway, yes. But you know what’s interesting is that I think here’s why this works. Well, it works for a lot of reasons. But one of the reasons why I think it works is I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but a lot of like regular shows that you can get on TV like Grey’s Anatomy or there’s another hospital one, Chicago Med or something like that. Right.

07:00
Like they play clips of the, like people pirate, I guess they pirate them, I don’t know, because it’s not like the Chicago Med channel, right? There are clips of Chicago Med of like scenes, right? So the pregnant lady comes in and she’s actually not pregnant, she’s having like a fake pregnancy, right? And so that part of the show is maybe 15 minutes of the storyline. So you can watch that part of the show in 60 to second to like two minute increments.

07:28
And then if you click through to that person’s profile, you can watch the next one and the next one and the next one. And then all of a sudden, you don’t get it anymore. Right. And that’s been happening for a lot of mainstream shows. So I think people are starting to view things this way. Right. Like I’ve never seen an episode of Chicago Med on TV, but I’ve probably seen 50 episodes of Chicago Med on my phone. You know, so.

07:52
I think it works in part because people are starting to view things this way. It’s like very normal to watch things in these little increments, which is so weird to me because it feels very choppy and disjointed. mean, there’s at least five movies that I actually decided to watch in full because I saw a whole bunch of clips on TikTok. Yeah. Oh, It’s like the new movie marketing. Yeah. Yeah. So it definitely works. But this is so interesting because the entire

08:17
It’s not like these, maybe it is, but it sounds like this Kung Fu movie. You can’t just go on Netflix and watch it if you wanted to. The only way to watch it is to pay for this app. Okay, so just to be clear, and just in case you guys are listening and you don’t know how it works, the ones that I’m talking about actually is you see this clip, but it’s really just an ad for an app, right? And so you download this app, and then you have the option of doing these micro payments to get all the episodes. Yeah.

08:47
So it’s really just an app ad on TikTok. But the is the movie. The ad is the movie. It is the clip of the movie. right. Because you can’t take micropayments obviously on TikTok itself. Right. And then every episode ends in a cliffhanger. Sometimes it ends, and this is pisses me off, sometimes it ends like mid-sentence. Oh, okay. My wife’s a sucker for this too. She’s a sucker for the ones where the woman is really ugly.

09:17
But she’s like one haircut and one grooming away from being beautiful. Yes. It’s the, what is it, Princess Diaries or whatever? Right. And the cliffhanger is always her getting a makeover, but you don’t get to see what she actually looks like. Yes. And she’s always wearing clothes that are six sizes too big and it’s always frumpy. then she goes, yeah, it’s the same thing. But okay, so do we have a number of how many people are downloading these apps?

09:44
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

10:12
And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves. So my advisor told me what needed to change. It was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light

10:42
will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. Well, I mean, this is big in China right now, and so I only have numbers for China, but 7 billion is a lot, and everything in the US usually lags China by like a year or two. And the fact that even me getting sucked into this stupid kung fu movie, maybe it’s because I grew up with kung fu movies.

11:09
that I started watching them. But there’s a lot of implications here and it actually gave me a bunch of ideas. Like you don’t need to spend 100K. Like there’s creators that I’ve watched that do put together these series, you know, that I always just kind of binge watch. And they could get on this app. I’m trying to figure out what the app is called. I think it’s called like Real Shorts or something like that. I should look it up and put it in the show notes. But the theory here is you could create your own.

11:38
and then monetize these little series as well. And they don’t have to be, like the production value doesn’t have to be that great, right? You just need to be really good at storytelling. So this sort of seems like what YouTube did for musicians and Spotify did for musicians, right? Like it used to be that you had to get with a record label, sign a contract, be beholden for the rest of your life, you know, to be able to make music. But now people can just make

12:07
content online playing an instrument or singing or whatever. And they can, it sounds like the same thing. Like you don’t have to get a big movie studio to pick up your idea or TV. You can just create it yourself and start charging people as long as it’s a good enough story. But honestly, I don’t think the stories are that good. The story is compelling because he’s got to this guy. He’s like, and there’s like 10, 10, uh,

12:34
10 Kung Fu experts on this ladder that he must be to prove to his family that he is deserving. Okay, but do think that’s a great storyline? Seriously? No, but it reminds me of my childhood. Yeah, so it’s nostalgia. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay, so there’s this guy I follow and I’m sure you’ve watched some of his stuff. His name is Ray William Johnson. He always tells like stories of crime, know, real stories of crime. he’s like a really good storyteller. I was thinking like, if he told us like really long 30 minute story,

13:03
And he broke it up into clips and then gave like the first ten out for free and then charged for the rest He could make a killing doing this no pun intended Now the only problem I have with this is that like it’s so empty I guess meaning like it’s just like a colossal waste of time. But then again, I guess so is Netflix, right? Yeah, I mean it’s the same. It’s just entertainment Yeah, exactly

13:33
Well, okay, so here’s what actually got me interested in this. uh There’s a lot of implications here for marketing as well. So uh this is still in its infancy, but there’s some micro movies, micro dramas, which I actually started watching for research just for the record. of course. Where they’ll somehow there’s this like product that they keep using. Oh, yes. Or drinking. so once you get big in a drama, it’s

14:01
kind of like has the same economics as a movie or television show where you can actually charge people to include your product in the micro drama. So there’s two revenue streams. Two revenue streams, but right. if you it’s the same as having like a YouTube channel, except it’s like a storytelling one where you’re getting money instead of going to the Hollywood studios, you’re making your own little one, like your own little movie. Okay. Right. And you’re getting people to incrementally, you’re chopping it up and making people incrementally pay.

14:31
and you’re charging for advertising as well. So as an advertiser, right? So let’s just say we’re watching the micro drama where the ugly girl becomes beautiful, right? I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in e-commerce that you should all check out.

15:00
It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. Is Bumble Bee Linens going to have a hanky placement and like what?

15:28
Like what’s the economics of Bumblebee? For that example, the makeover could be like, I’m using Chanel number five, whatever. Or I’m using this Korean beauty cream. This is why my wife likes it. She’s really into Korean beauty right now. So she’ll be watching one of she’ll be like, hey, wait, what was that cream that they’re using? And then you could probably have uh maybe even a buy button or something. So that was my next question.

15:55
I haven’t seen, I’ve seen all the microdermis. I haven’t really either seen or noticed the product placement. Maybe it’s already there and I just haven’t been paying enough attention. But how do people buy, right? So they’re doing the makeover. There’s the skin cream. Jen’s like, oh, I need to try this because look how beautiful it made her, right? Is there a way to buy it right there? Like on TikTok shop where you kind of click through and buy? So that’s the problem right now.

16:22
In theory, you could do that, but the goal of all these micro dramas right now is to get you to download their special app in order to drip out the content. As far as I can tell, there is no buy buttons on the app itself. So I think maybe, here’s what’s weird. In that Kung Fu movie series, it’s the one I’m actively watching, different episodes have different ads. So for example, one will go straight to the app click.

16:48
and then a different one will go to some other page that tries to sell you on other stuff. So different clips that they’re releasing for free can have different calls to action. So I feel like it’s probably a matter of time before there is just sort of a click to buy because I’m seeing it more and more. So I think you have YouTube TV too, right? I do. To watch regular TV. Have you noticed that like when commercials come on, there’s almost always a button to.

17:17
It’s usually on drugs, like pharmaceuticals. I don’t know. I feel even get me started on that. You should see the ads I get now that I talk you. All the ads I ever get on YouTube TV are like, I didn’t know you could have this many diseases. Well, mine is like hair loss and erectile dysfunction.

17:37
Because I’m at that age now, right? So I get I get a lot of eczema ads, which I think is funny because I’m like, I’ve never really had any skin issues, but apparently they think differently. um So I feel like it’s probably a matter of time before that becomes something that’s very normalized, even within the micro dramas. So as I just am so interested in this as a as a seller. Right. Because I think, you know, we were just chatting about meta ads before we started recording and how, you know, a lot of people are

18:05
are struggling right now with ads. So people are looking for new ways to showcase their products, talk about their products, pay to promote their products. Is this going to be a viable option? I mean, it’s working for Jen, but does it work for is this overall working or is it going to work? I guess it hasn’t really started yet. Well, I don’t think about this in terms of meta ads. I guess you could. I because people don’t really watch these short films, at least

18:35
I don’t on like Meta or Instagram, right? As far as I can tell, this is only a TikTok thing right now. No, no, no, I’m saying for for Bumblebee, let’s just say your ads went in the toilet and you’re like, I need to find other sources, right? I need to find other channels. Is this going to be something where it is as impactful as Meta ads have been for businesses, right? Where like having your product in a micro drama is going to actually drive sales and not just

19:04
I think like traditional TV advertising where it’s like, know, Coca-Cola doesn’t really need to advertise ever again, neither does Nike, right? But they do because they want to constantly stay top of mind. They want to showcase new products, talk about brand values, all those things, right? So is this going to be something where advertisers kind of, it becomes another just accepted channel, right? Where it’s like, well, we do, we run this ad and we do Google ads and we do this and we have our stuff in micro dramas kind of thing.

19:32
I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah, it’s still early. So actually, here’s some other numbers. uh Drama Box is a platform that reportedly did over 120 million in its recent quarter, and it’s profitable. OK. Real Shorts, think is the one I was talking about. They sell virtual coins that you can use for transactions and pay for episodes inside the app. That one’s more digital product commerce as opposed to physical.

20:03
But again, this is all kind of new. We’re always like a year or two behind China. So the fact that this working in China implies that it’s coming over here. Because you can sponsor like the entire episode of a mini drama, right? Yeah. It’s kind of like how influencers work today. Like people can pay me to do like a dedicated TikTok, right? Or a short. I could create a dedicated one, but instead I’ll be holding up, you know, hair cream. I don’t know. Something like that.

20:32
Yeah. So I wonder. So another thing I think about is and I don’t know, do you are you an NFL? Do you watch the NFL? Of course. OK. Well, I know you got the 49ers. um But one of the things that I’ve seen all year with the NFL is that people are really getting irritated that you have to have like 20 subscriptions to watch football now. Right. It used to be that you buy bought Sunday ticket. Right. Which is it was expensive. Several hundred dollars. Right. um And you could get all the games.

21:01
But now it’s like, well, Thursday night games are on Prime, this game’s on Peacock, this game’s, you And so it’s like, people were frustrated that they couldn’t just watch football, right? And there was like a lot, like people are on Twitter complaining, they’re on all the other social platform, or X, platforms. um So I wonder if people are going to start getting irritated that it’s like, well, here’s just one more thing that I have to pay for to watch.

21:28
what I’m interested in watching, right? Because I mean, I can’t even tell you like how many things I’m probably have subscriptions for, because like my kids want to watch a certain, just like you’ve got Apple TV and Hulu and Peacock and Netflix and Amazon Prime. you know, it’s just, it’s never ending. All right, so let me tell you why this works. Once you have that app, and let’s say they give you like $5 in credits or something. Yes. Let’s say each episode is only like a nickel. Okay. Right?

21:55
And so you get your whole first series and you pay like a couple bucks. Yeah. But it’s not really your money, but you get in this habit of like throwing a nickel here, throwing a nickel there. Yeah. And then you end up finding this Kung Fu series that, ah, you know, I’ve already done this, you know, I really wanted to see what, you know, how it ends. So you just throw a couple of nickels and, before you know it, you spent like 10 bucks.

22:22
It reminds me of um when my kids were little and m what was the roadblocks, roadblocks. I don’t know how to say it came out and it was like it was free. You could play it right. It was the kids building game. But then like in order to get special building things right for your little city that you made, you had to pay money. Right. And so like all of a sudden one day I got like an iTunes bill for.

22:48
you know, like $72, right? Or something like that, where one of my kids had just like click, click, click, click. is before, like this is before they had to put all these safeguards on it, right? Because when it was early, they were just like, oh yeah, it hooks into your iTunes account. And like when your iTunes account is set with a credit card and you can just buy whatever you want. It’s the same thing, right? You download the app, there’s a payment, you know, processor in there, right? So just clicking, it doesn’t feel real. Like doesn’t feel like real money. It’s why people pay 99 cents in Candy Crush to get

23:18
you know, a power up or whatever. So, I mean, I can see it working because, you know, I’m sure when my kid did it, like they were like, oh, I didn’t like they didn’t have really any idea that it was like real money. Right. Because they were little. um But I can see people thinking like, oh, it’s just a nickel. It’s just 10 cents. I’m, you know, and then the next thing, you know, especially at like three minute increments, it’s like a slot machine. You’ve spent two hundred dollars.

23:44
So my buddy, he always balks when it comes to buying games, like an $80 game or something. He’s like, oh, no, I’m not gonna pay 80 bucks for that. But he got hooked on Pokemon Go. I don’t know if you remember that game. People are still yes, my son still plays it. But he spent over a couple hundred bucks on that game alone on these little add-ons, right? Yes. That you can sprinkle here and there that are just like 99 cents here, 99 cents there. Same principle, and it’s pretty ingenious. Yeah, well the good thing for whoever

24:13
brings us to the States is that you’re training kids from a very young age to behave in this way, Click pay, ad, click pay, ad. I know for some of my kids, when they were younger, wanted, what were they, is it Steam gift cards, right? Which gives you money into your Microsoft account to game. um It’s a very ingrained behavior right now, especially for younger people.

24:40
Right, because that’s what they’ve been doing their whole lives. They don’t know any different. So this is the real reason that got me excited about all this. It’s not like the Kung Fu movies and the empty whatever. I think that all the content that you put out, let’s say you do teaching content like what I do. And I’m not suggesting that I’m gonna try. I don’t know, maybe I’ll try this as an experiment just for fun, just for the content, right? But let’s say you give like a really in-depth tutorial on how to launch a product, let’s say, right?

25:11
And so you give like a lesson, you give like a couple lessons for free, and then the rest of them, you kind of just end right when I’m about to tell you how to do it. And then I put all this whole tutorial on a platform like real short or maybe not the other one, because that one’s strictly for dramas. But then, you know, it’s much easier to sell that than it is like a couple thousand dollar course.

25:39
Right? And so you’re basically nickel and diming your way to a lot of money. Okay, so this got you excited and yet your signature statement in every webinar you’ve ever done is, I’ll never nickel and dime you. Yeah, This business model fascinates me. uh Okay. And then here’s the good part. So once you have this audience of people that throwing you nickels, uh then I bet all of the e-commerce companies

26:07
will come to me and say, can I sponsor one episode of one of your lessons? Yeah. Right. I’ll be like, OK, yeah, that’ll be $500 or $1,000 or whatever. Right. And it’s just like an easier way to sell stuff. So when are we doing it? Are you serious? You want to try it? I don’t know. I kind of do. And I see this right now, especially because

26:32
people don’t have that much money right now. They don’t have a huge chunk of money, but they do have 50 cents here, 99 cents there. And they don’t wanna commit to some large purchase. And this is why this is so ingenious. It’s annoying too though, I we can talk about that. Yeah, so I guess that’s the question is, so it is very easy for people to spend, it’s like why Starbucks is still packed, right? Even though the economy’s kinda crappy right now.

27:02
People think like, oh, I can’t give up on my $4 coffee, right? It’s just part of, it’s ingrained in their behavior. People are still spending money here and there on things. So I feel like, yeah, it would be really easy to get somebody hooked and then, oh, well, if you want the next lesson, it’s 50 cents. Who isn’t doing that? Just because, well, for 50 cents, I might as well see what it is.

27:31
Right? Yeah, and in the teaching space, it would just be like one tip. Yeah. Or one nugget. Yeah. So it’s so funny that we’re having this conversation because a couple weeks ago in office hours, there was a talk about this course and it was like, was it AI in YouTube or something with AI? And it was only $97. And in the course world, that’s really cheap. Yes.

27:58
And so it got brought into my mastermind group, like, hey, I’m thinking about signing up for this course, has anyone heard of it, blah, blah. And everyone’s commenting the same thing, 97 bucks, is it anything, right? And so at $97, it gives you a little more pause, right? So my thought is though, if it’s 50 cents, are people gonna be like, oh, 50 cents, it’s probably garbage? Or is it because it’s 50 cents, it’s like, well, who cares if it’s garbage, it’s 50 cents.

28:26
And then if it’s not garbage, it’s like you’re just perpetuating the… Well, you wouldn’t sell, you would give away like five lessons for free. Right. And then they’d all be in a logical progression. And the sixth one, it’d be 50 cents. Yeah. And it’d just be like a series of little micro tips. Yeah. Right. I don’t know. I think it would work really well. So is the only way to do this that em the app that you mentioned? Well, I mean, you could write your own with vibe coding.

28:54
It’s actually not a whole lot. But for regular people, what could they do? It’s not it’s not mainstream yet. So I don’t think there’s any real app that that does this. Yeah. Outside of the drama, like you can pay for more. Which I guess is the same thing here. Right. Like you would just lock the tips. Yeah, I guess you could use the problem is people are going to those sites to watch dramas right now. But I mean, there’s no reason why this wouldn’t work. Yeah. One of those platforms.

29:24
Well, because but the drama starts on TikTok, like the ad is on TikTok to get people to do it. So like the first visual is not for people already inside the app. It’s for people not using the app have no idea what it is. Probably they’re seeing it on TikTok. They watch the first one. So let’s just say let’s just say TikTok will use that. So the first e-commerce tip is on TikTok, right? Like so you make a TikTok, you give an e-commerce tip, then you make you cliff hang it right.

29:53
Then you make a second TikTok. Once again, tip, cliff hang, right? Like you don’t give the full, maybe you give, you finish tip one, you get into tip two, don’t give tip two. Third video, same thing. Give tip two, go into tip three, don’t give it. Fourth video, same thing. Fourth video, you don’t get the tip, right? Like, and then it’s like download, pay, and I’ll give you tip four.

30:17
Yeah, I think an easier way to do this would just be to just take them to a website where you can watch them like you don’t need an app. Like getting someone to install an app is really difficult. But if it automatically takes you to this video where it’s blacked out, for example, and you click a button and then out comes the credit card thing, buy like 100 tokens. Actually, that’s the other genius thing, right? You’re buying these little yes, you’re buying tokens. It’s not real money. Yes. And so you can only buy tokens in increments of five bucks.

30:46
So you buy five bucks and then you just spend it on what lessons that you want and you’re out of there. does that technology already exist for like regular people today? Well, all it is is a payment thing. It’s just an e-commerce store. part though, like so I’m trying to I’m like actually because I know we have people that listen will they will want to set this up tomorrow. Right. So

31:07
The first part is yes, obviously we have payment processors, we can do that, but how do you turn the payment into tokens? That’s possible because everybody does it with AI stuff is all in tokens, Okay, think about this. This is just a Shopify store with gift cards. Okay, okay. Except- We’re calling it tokens. You’re calling it tokens instead of dollars, right? And so you spend your gift card on whatever’s in the portfolio. Like each Shopify product could just be an episode.

31:36
But priced in tokens and not money. Priced in tokens and not money. That’s the other key. Yeah, tokens is key. Yeah. I like it. So this is all very doable. It’d be kind of fun to, because then, okay, here’s the question I always get asked about my class. Like, I don’t need all the modules. Can you sell them to me piecemeal? Yeah. Well, how about I nickel and dime you?

32:03
uh I mean, I don’t know. um I’m kind of liking it, go on. Well, okay, so let’s say you don’t want to do that and you don’t teach or whatever. Instead of just putting out free content on TikTok, why not just do this? You’re still giving value. It’s kind of like my six day mini course, right? I give out a lot of value. You get those 10 videos and then you decide whether you want to get the class or not or participate.

32:32
This is the same thing, really on a different, like I couldn’t throw out that six day mini course on TikTok because they’re too long. But instead, if I broke it up into very small 60 second nuggets and just put them out there and in like maybe one or two of the best nuggets, I have a direct over, like I’ll pay for ads, TikTok ads or something like that, direct it over to a landing page where they can pick and choose which tips they want to learn.

33:02
I don’t know. I think it would work. Yeah, I think I think what. So I think two keys to making it work better are the token aspect of it. Right. So not not attaching it to real money um as well as the cliffhanger coming in. Right. Where it’s like, I’m going to give you a reason to because like why else in the world when I am like always trying to like maximize my efficiency and like be super productive, am I hunting all over TikTok for like the next

33:31
the next segment of a show that actually exists already like like Chicago med, right? It’s not even like I couldn’t just watch that Chicago med episode probably on Netflix or something But no, I’m I’m going through 20 profiles on tik-tok trying to find the next one I like how you’re using Chicago med as your example when I know you really watch like real housewives or whatever. You’re really hunting for the next

33:54
I’m actually really into the medical dramas on TikTok right now. I don’t know why. I used to watch them like 30 years ago, like when ER, George Clooney ER was out. um yeah, I don’t I kind of like the I kind of. OK, so taking a hard left turn here, how can we do this? OK, OK. I’m getting excited. OK, we don’t have much longer.

34:23
How do we do this as a test? How do we create this, how do we set this up and do it as a test to sell people, but also sell people in the test? What do mean sell people physical products? No, like how do we do info products, which is what we already do, right? We sell info products. So how do we set this up to do it? How do we make, how do we turn our six day mini course into 60 second nuggets with cliffhangers, then,

34:49
push people into buying more 60 to three minute, let’s just say, segments, right, where we literally teach one thing, right? Where they come in, but then we also sell how we did it. This would be really easy to set up, honestly. You know what I’m saying, though? I think it’s fascinating. You’re just breaking up individual tips, and then you just have to make sure you tag them really well, and then you just throw them up on a

35:18
I wouldn’t use Shopify, but like you could throw it up on a Shopify site, right? Or a membership site. Any membership site will work membership plugin on WordPress. And you just give out really good tips for free on TikTok and then just steer them over to this whole array could be categorized where you just pay a buck to learn this, pay a buck to learn that. Very easy with tokens. Very easy to do. Okay. So, um, before we get off in the weeds, uh, I just kind of wanted to talk about like,

35:47
Did you listen to that Joe Rogan episode with Ben Affleck and uh Matt Damon? I’ve only seen clips of it, but once again, I’ve seen clips. Okay, so they were complaining that Hollywood is doing it all wrong now. Like back in the day, you could tell stories and whatnot, but now everyone has such short attention spans that you need to hit them quick. So the whole model is changing. It’s basically what the gist of that episode was.

36:17
Like in the old days, the instinct was to overspend on a big production, market it like crazy and then make a ton of money. Now it’s kind of like flipped, right? Because everyone wants like quick dopamine hits, right? And so you want to put together these quick little clips that are actionable with frequent payoffs. So it’s like the opposite of the way it was before. And that’s where things are going, unfortunately. uh Bedaflic and

36:46
What they were complaining about is they just released this Netflix episode. Yes. Netflix movie, right? Yeah, they’re everywhere right now. And the director was like, you need like hard hitting action from the start and throughout, you know, to keep someone’s attention span. Whereas before you could spend some time building up the characters and everything before. Yeah. These days, I don’t know if you do this, but sometimes when I’m watching Netflix, I’ll have my phone out and I’m like checking email or something during the movie. That’s the problem now.

37:13
So I noticed this because Brian is a movie guy, right? He loves going to the movies, right? We have the like AMC pass or whatever. It’s actually not a bad deal. But anyway, I’ve seen more movies in the last four years than I have in my entire life put together, right?

37:29
But what I’ve noticed is I don’t like action movies. not super into, I already have enough anxiety. I don’t like going to a movie where I have anxiety for two hours. So I wanna see stories, right? I wanna see love stories or even comedies, even documentaries. I don’t care. I just don’t want everyone dies, right? There are no movies where everyone doesn’t die. I was looking last week, I was like, oh, we should go see a movie this week, right? There was nothing. There was nothing to see that wasn’t,

37:59
like absolute action horror, you know, from from scene one to scene end of, you know, guns a blazing kind of thing. um So anyway, yeah, I mean, they’re totally right. Like no one’s making those movies, but they’re all on TikTok, right? They’re all on TikTok with the girl getting the makeover and the you know, she’s really a princess and she’s, you know, in love with her brother. Who knows what it is, right? But it’s like they’re all they’re all being made there now. Do you think people will get annoyed if we

38:29
if we did something like this. I know for the experiment be fun, but do you think people would get annoyed at this type of learning if it was broken up this way? I feel like do people get annoyed in casinos when they put their money in and don’t win? Like, yes, of course people are going to get annoyed, but do the casino people care? No. Yeah, but this is different because it also reflects on your reputation, right? So it’s one thing to put out a micro drama where there’s no human really attached to it, right? It’s all make believe, but it’s another to release lessons this way.

38:58
If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. mean, like, so who was it? John Ackup that said uh people, someone complained about like one of the webinars that he had and he’s like, I’m happy to refund your money for the free met. Right. So like if someone now, if someone’s if someone feels here’s the thing, if how many times do we hear this at Seller Summit where people will say this one thing that you said, right, this one thing that I learned, right?

39:25
I got this, I remember, I think it was Charles said, when I explained how to do like tag people in Klaviyo without having to send them to forms like automatically, like I think that was it. It might’ve been something different, but like I had a couple of people when I shared that tip that they were like, that was worth coming to the event, right? So people paid $800 to hear that one tip. How mad are they gonna be if they paid 10 cents to hear that same tip, right? Or a similar type tip.

39:54
You want me to refund your dime? They even make times. Sure. Are they getting obsolete too? it like just our dimes? Our dimes? Well, mean, in this method, like it’s tokens. It’s token. Refund your tokens. Big whoop. I feel like the the amount is so small that like, I don’t know. I mean, 99 cents. How often do you complain at your value meal? It’s true. I don’t know.

40:24
I mean, so I think it would be really interesting to do it and see, here’s the other thing, and this is where I think people will get, this is where people will struggle, is that yes, this is great, but it has to be interesting enough to get an audience to then have enough people watching it to wanna click through and learn more, right? And that’s where people are gonna have a hard time. Because- That’s where ads come in, right? Yeah, but I mean, I think, that’s-

40:51
Usually when people struggle it’s they can’t get enough eyeballs on what they’re doing. So I think if it’s good enough. Yeah, I mean if you already have, well okay, so here’s the key takeaway for this episode, right? Okay, that we’re gonna do this, you can join and watch us do it You don’t wanna make like just shorter videos, you wanna make them continuous. Yes. Right? And they can just be frequent.

41:20
continuous and unresolved, meaning everything ends on a cliffhanger. So you’ll actually go through and search for the next lesson, right? And then once you’ve established that, then maybe you can try some of these techniques that we’ve just talked about. For sure. And I think even if you take away one thing, you should be making your videos like that anyway, whether you’re going to attach any sort of monetary spend behind it or not. Yeah.

41:49
Hope you enjoyed this episode. Especially if you sell info products, this could be a great way to generate more sales. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequarterjob.com slash episode 632. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person, in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs, and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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631: Sabrina Ramonov Shares the AI Playbook That Got Her 500M Views in a Year

In this episode, I sit down with Sabrina Ramanov, a CS major turned social media entrepreneur who walked away from the traditional career track and built an audience of over a million followers across multiple platforms.

We get into her exact strategy for growing from zero, how each platform is different and where you should actually be spending your time, and why she thinks most people are completely wrong about what it takes to build an audience. Then, we go deep on vibe coding nad how the average person can actually use it effectively.

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What You’ll Learn

  • How Sabrina Ramanov Used Ai To Scale To 500m Views
  • The Exact Content System She Uses
  • Simple Ways You Can Vibe Code Your Next App

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, I sit down with Sabrina Ramanov, a CS major turned social media entrepreneur who walked away from the traditional career track and built an audience of over a million followers across multiple platforms. We get into her exact strategy for growing from zero, how each platform is different and where you should actually be spending your time and why she thinks most people are completely wrong about what it takes to build an audience.

00:29
And then we go deep on vibe coding, how the average person can actually use it effectively and how I personally built a Shopify app in a weekend that saved me 300 bucks a month. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away.

00:57
Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

01:26
And if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:47
Welcome to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today I’m excited to have Sabrina Ramanov on the show. So Sabrina jumped on my radar screen in just the past year where all of a sudden my entire feed on TikTok was suddenly flooded with her uh content, both AI and non-AI. And you can tell that she’s using her AI avatar because she’s wearing this purple cap. Sabrina is a serial entrepreneur where she started and sold her AI company, Curious, several years ago.

02:17
And since then, she’s been on a mission to teach 1 million people about AI for free. I’m pretty sure she’s exceeded 1 million people at this point. But she also started this new AI company called BlowTato that helps scale your organic social media, which I am actually happily using right now to handle all of my social media posts. And it’s been a game changer for me. In fact, the only negative thing that I had to say about this woman is that she graduated from Cal, but we’ll let that go for today.

02:46
But in this episode, we’re going to talk about vibe coding. We’re going to be talking about scaling out your social media with the power of AI. And with that, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, go Bears. Go Cardinal. OK, so Sabrina, your posts are all over my feed. I saw today, I saw a post from you about skipping out on college to do an apprenticeship or just to create like 12 different projects.

03:12
I’m afraid that I’m going to have to revoke your Asian membership. I knew that was going a little spicy. Well, I know that you went into debt, right? Now going to college. I mean, do you really? I kind of feel the way you do, but I’m not allowed to say that publicly. And the thing is, I do make an exception for the top

03:36
colleges like Berkeley was considered top college. whatever one you went to, I’m just kidding, It’s absolutely insane network. It’s just incredible people you’re surrounded by and opportunities that are incredible. And so there is kind of like a soft spot in my heart for kind of the top universities. But there are many other universities that are charging those price, those same prices. Let’s say I graduated for everybody who knows it was $250,000 in student debt.

04:06
And it was really interesting for me actually when I made the Forbes 30 under 30 list, there was like a private survey of demographics of like who else had graduated with student debt. And it was actually a very tiny, tiny, tiny percentage. And I was like, oh, maybe there’s a correlation between who people who make these lists. And there was a socioeconomic correlation with like how easy some of this stuff is attainable to you if you come from a background of uh where you’re financially well off in the first place.

04:34
And I really love Berkeley because it had that socioeconomic diversity for me. That was like huge, huge. So my co-founder for my first company, and he’s now my husband, George, he transferred into UC Berkeley from a community college in California. And so that was, yeah, that was super cool. Very different worlds we come from. But yeah, I knew that post would be spicy, but I also really believe college, especially today in the age of AI is not really adapting.

04:59
to all of these things you can do now with AI. Most curricula still don’t teach kids how to use AI, not college kids either. And I do think there’s a lot you could learn just by taking initiative and building these projects yourself or apprenticing under somebody that you think is really cool, right? And for a college kid, it could be content creation, influencing, being a YouTuber, it be building apps, whatever it is, just like go apprentice for that type of person and really see how they work, what it takes to succeed.

05:29
in that environment and like try to do it yourself. So I’m a big advocate of just doing that as well, not just studying theoretical stuff in the classroom. I am very pro AI. So I actually have a daughter who’s applying to college right now. And it seems like the schools are almost against it in a way, like they have anti AI too. mean, this is going to be a part of everyone’s lives. So I’ve taken a proactive AI approach with my kids as well. But yeah. And like,

05:57
I made another post on this. I think it’s a shame uh that most schools aren’t teaching kids how to use AI. So kids end up using AI in a cheap way, like just copy pasting and plagiarizing. And then when they graduate, they’re expected to know how to use AI for everything because they’re young. So why don’t they know how to use AI for everything? But they weren’t like trained or educated with this during college. So I think it’s a huge, I think it’s a really big disservice to be honest. I agree with you.

06:26
But uh Sabrina, so it sounds like you had a decent exit from your last company. Why did you decide to create one in the social media space? And what made you want to even reach like a million followers and teach AI in the first place? Well, so when I moved outside of a tech bubble, so I was in Silicon Valley for over a decade. And then when I moved outside of the tech bubble, it became glaringly obvious to me that nobody knows about AI and the things they do know are often driven

06:55
by like fear and anxiety. And that really bothered me when I opened TikTok a year and a half ago and I started creating content, it was like, you’re missing out, also buy these prompt packs for like a thousand dollars. ah It was a combination of like FOMO and ripping people off. And I really did not like that. That did not resonate with me at all. We were just talking about that pay it forward mentality that’s prevalent in Silicon Valley. And I felt like this was my opportunity.

07:22
to pay it forward. I had been in AI since 2013. My first company was also an AI company. We did speech recognition, natural language processing, and I just felt like I was in a position and also enjoyed teaching other people like, hey, here’s all the cool, positive, productive things you can do with AI. It’s just funny because I’m an EE. I have a master’s in EE, and I believe you have a CS major. Social media is not something that I would, wouldn’t be my first instinct, you know, to go into. So that’s why I asked.

07:51
Oh yeah, so I’ve listened to Gary Vee and Hormozi for years, and now I understand what they say. You know, most people are going to listen to this and never take action. There’s this element of fear and honestly insecurity when I started, especially being female on these platforms. I don’t wear makeup, I don’t doll up, I don’t dress up or anything. Really, you are facing a lot of your own insecurities in your mind that first 100 days of posting content. And even for my tech friends,

08:20
They all looked down on TikTok initially. It wasn’t until I started growing on Instagram, they were like, oh, that’s cool. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So I dealt with all of that, but I just feel like my position is I’m an educator. What is the most efficient way to reach many, many people with exactly what I want to say without having to go through some gatekeeper. And so when I thought about it in that way, was like, well, social media makes the most sense. I can talk about what I want to talk about.

08:48
the algorithm will try to find my audience for me, like people who actually appreciate the stuff that I’m saying, and it’s free. Like anyone can get started. You don’t have to like pay for PR. You don’t have to pay for anything to start posting on social media and teaching folks what you want to teach. Yeah, totally. I actually I get a lot of flack from my Stanford buddies. Like they make fun of me nonstop. But hey, I found my tribe, you know, who wants to listen to me. So yeah.

09:14
So what I wanted to do today, since you’ve been very good at growing your audience, primarily this podcast serves business owners. And I want to get your strategy for building up a social media account from complete scratch for, let’s say, like an e-commerce company or a services-based company, using your strategies. Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth?

09:43
Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business. And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix,

10:12
meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quietlight has built or sold businesses themselves. So when my advisor told me what needed to change, it was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quietlight will make a huge difference.

10:39
You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. Yeah, so I can recap at least what’s worked for me and then you can probably take pieces of it. For me, I start with my personal brand and thought leadership. So giving away AI education as highest quality as possible and just giving it all away for free. That builds up my personal brand. And then I sneak in like, hey, check out Bloatato here and there.

11:08
So I’ll make two TikToks a week where I talk with Blotato. In my newsletter at the bottom, it’ll say, hey, I built Blotato for this particular purpose. ah So that organic social media for my brand then funnels a small percentage of my audience who are a good fit to Blotato. They funnel them to the website. And I think just the Blotato website just this year has gotten 1.4 million visitors already. through that funnel. So like my personal brand is probably around

11:37
500 million views. Okay, so but that’s like broad AI education content. And then it’s just a matter of like, you know, inserting it here and there and subtle ways that aren’t pushy and aren’t for me, it’s important like not to be too salesy because I don’t resonate with that. And so I just like insert it in different ways here and there. And that just funnels that initial massive audience at the top of funnels of people who are good fit directly to the website. mean, it works. mean, I fell for that funnel.

12:06
Let’s say you’re selling, so do you recommend that people start with their personal brand first? I think it’s very powerful. I know that a lot of people aren’t willing to do that. I also don’t think it’s necessary for uh anything that’s consumer facing. I see a lot of, for example, like B2C consumer mobile apps on TikTok. Most of those I’m seeing succeeding do not have any face or personal brand at the helm because you want to find some repeatable viral format that you can then hire.

12:35
your UGC army of a hundred creators to then replicate. So if it’s only attached to you, then it’s not necessarily as scalable as having a different type of video that any creator you hire can replicate. So for B2C, I don’t think it’s necessary at all. For B2B though, which is what Blotato is, so Blotato sells to agency owners, people building their brand, their businesses building their brand. For B2B, it’s incredibly powerful. The inbound opportunities you get.

13:03
by putting your face out there, your thought leadership out there, pretty incredible irrespective of whether it generates leads for your business, I think. Like both are incredible. So if you are willing to put yourself out there, I would definitely vote for that for anything B2B context. So you’re pretty well spoken. The videos that we watch now, were you always this eloquent? Did it take practice? Do you have some earlier videos that were just horrific?

13:31
Oh yeah, like I couldn’t watch my earlier videos. Like I cringed, I was so critical of myself. I also felt I was trying different formats. So in the beginning, like you’re trying to find and create your own voice as well. And that’s a very awkward process. So I’d like try to copy someone else’s style and I couldn’t watch it again because I knew it wasn’t me. I wasn’t authentic. Maybe nobody else picks up on these things, but I could pick up on it.

13:59
Articulate, I don’t know. I just try to say something as clearly as possible using simple language. In my mind, it’s much easier to complicate stuff and sound smart than it is to try to actually simplify something, especially knowing that these are very nuanced topics. But to teach somebody, you need to really distill it to the core essence of the material.

14:26
Can I ask how many pieces of content you’re putting out a day? Yeah, yeah. So I actually have my entire social playbook published. So I only make content once a week. And then it starts with a YouTube video in the morning. So that’s my long form. And then I repurpose that into a newsletter and a couple of short form pieces, just kind of announcing, hey, like, here’s my latest YouTube tutorial. And then I take a lunch break and then I film 20 TikTok videos.

14:50
And then when each TikTok video is posted, I have an automation that uses potato to repurpose it to other platforms. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in e-commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell

15:19
all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. So is that 20 pieces a day? your- Oh no, so that’s per week. So let’s say- Oh per week, okay. So let’s say 21 original pieces of content per week and then that is just repurposed everywhere else.

15:48
Okay, so three pieces a day approximately. ah Would you recommend someone starting out have that frequency? uh Ideally, yes, but I understand like most people don’t have the time. So it’s more a function of like, what can you fit in to the time you have? I do think consistency is the most important thing. So if you can only do one a day, like just go for it and just stick to it for as long as you can.

16:14
It didn’t really become a habit for me until about like 90 to 100 days where I truly felt like it was wrong to not post something. I just felt like it was part of my identity now. Like I just got to post something today, even if it’s just a tweet, one line on LinkedIn and that will count, you know, in my head. But yeah, I noticed most beginners kind of just fall off track. They never actually make it to 100 posts published. Yeah. And to come up with that many pieces of content,

16:43
I imagine you use AI to augment that. Are you eating your own dog food and provide ideas? but I think one of the things people don’t realize is I also source, I use AI to source ideas from stuff I’m already doing. So when I’m coding for Bloatado or answering support tickets for Bloatado, for example, once a week my AI bot goes in there and tries to like look for interesting trends. And that can be a content idea. For example, like a lot of people are asking for a particular feature, like

17:12
uh create carousels with Bloatado. And that was the origin of that particular feature, and that could be a content idea. I also look at things like uh meetings I’m already having. So I don’t have many meetings, but my Bloatado weekly office hours has an AI meeting notes taker, and that is also repurposed into content ideas. my suggestion for most people is to not change what you’re already doing, but just look for opportunities where you can kind of plug in AI to kind of listen.

17:40
extract ideas organically from the stuff you’re already doing. For most people, it’s probably a combination of meetings or maybe emails are kind of the two most obvious places to start and just have an AI flow that’s like, hey, these are like 10 pretty interesting ideas from the stuff you discussed today. And the benefit is like you were authentic and engaged. Like you weren’t trying to force these ideas. They came up naturally in conversation and that’s what makes them like really valuable and interesting.

18:12
I can tell you how I’m using BlowTato. uh So anytime I’m on TikTok or in my emails or seeing an interesting article, I immediately just shove it in BlowTato. And then when it times to create the content, I just put my own spin on whatever that article was. And that has made life just so much easier for me because I don’t have to stare at this blank screen. Yeah, because we get inspired by content ideas all the time. Like I’ll see a LinkedIn post, I’ll have a reaction to it.

18:37
And so like I’ll plug it, I’ll plug the post in Blotato and then I’ll use my voice dictation app. So a lot of people use whisper flow. I use voice sync and then I’ll be like, well, this is what I think. And it’s slightly different. And then Blotato kind of mashes them together, right? Do final edits and then publish it out. And that’s like exactly the core use case it was built for. I know a lot of people ask me for full automation, but in my opinion, most beginner creators should not start with full automation. They should like take

19:05
interesting ideas that they already have or that they see online, add their unique voice and then publish it rather than trying to automate everything from ground zero.

19:17
I’m actually not a fan of full automation at all, because I don’t feel like what’s generated reflects. It’s never exact. I always have to edit. So I’m actually curious. I’ve noticed you’ve used an AI avatar. Do you continue to use the avatar and like, does that flow? I actually only use it when I’m on vacation or out sick and so and always wears a hat. So like my audience knows and it’s transparent and it’s honestly safe. Like there was

19:44
weeks when I lost my voice and it honestly saved me during that two week period. But yeah, there’s still like massaging, like I really care about the script that it’s saying. It’s also difficult to get the avatar’s like enunciation correct and sounding correct. So I’ve sat there for four hours tweaking 11 Labs parameters until I could find something that was 80 % of the time acceptable, right? 80 % of the time. That was like the best I could do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

20:14
Yeah, you know, I started replacing my outros in the podcast with 11 Labs just so could play around with it. It’s gotten a lot better. Oh, yeah, yeah, the professional voice clone definitely better. Yeah.

20:26
But for you though, uh I was under the impression that everything was kind of automated. So you’re actually going through and tweaking the output before it gets posted. so I think what I’ve kind of learned, so when I initially started making automation tutorials for Bloatado users, I would have them fully automated because that was like the simplest version that I could do. Because once you have a human in the loop step, it’s like, okay, you write it to Airtable, wait for somebody to approve it, then send it back.

20:55
I didn’t want to introduce that level of complexity in a tutorial. What I’ve learned though on this topic is like people really download these templates and just expect it to work out of the box and like go by. And that I did not anticipate. And so kind of my learning from that moving forward is to have a human in the loop QA step in every single tutorial moving forward. Cause I truly believe that’s like the approach 90%.

21:23
of people should probably take. I’m not a fan of using AI to distance yourself from the creative process. And that’s what a lot of people want it to do. Like they don’t want to deal with the edits and the thinking and finding your voice. But I believe the complete opposite. Like the people who are succeeding using AI are using it to go deeper into the creative process. Like find my blind spots, give me five different perspectives that challenge me. And that’s the way to use AI successfully.

21:54
I’m so happy you said that. That being said, though, we kind of glossed over your flow. So from what I understand, you have AI just kind of browse all the different things that you’re doing and does it put it in air table? Yeah, Yeah, so when it comes to ideation, yeah, bucket number one is what am I already doing today? So it’s looking at meetings, it’s looking at emails, and it’s looking at my GitHub projects, which is where I manage like, bloatado tickets, like feature tickets and buck tickets. Number two is AI news.

22:22
So I use an app called RSS.app where you can pay attention to different Twitter accounts, TikTok accounts, Instagram accounts, and just compile what is the most interesting news. For my particular audience, that tends to be tools that are free or resources that are free, like deeplearning.ai just released a free course on AI governance for agents. That’s interesting. I really like that. I’m going to share that. And also new tools that come out.

22:47
um Like the chat, GPD subreddit sometimes has funny stuff, so I’ll include that in there. And then the third idea, the third source of ideas is actually scraping consumer content and just thinking about the different hooks. just niches completely unrelated to AI. So let’s say dating or relationships, but there I’m looking for just inspiration around like very interesting hooks that I could repurpose for an AI use case.

23:14
So these scrapers, are they code or are using something Yeah, I’m using NADN, but you can definitely code it today with a Vibes Coding tool. So I personally use Cloud Code for coding potato.

23:28
Yeah, okay, so N8N, so you have all these things now, then I imagine that’s like a whole bunch of stuff that you have to sift through. And then do you pick one and then feed that into AI to write your script? I imagine you have like a prompt that you use that sounds like you or what’s your process So it will put it in Airtable. So I have an AI agent where I’ve given it examples of previous content that has gone viral. And so that agent scores, like let’s say it has 200 ideas.

23:57
it’ll like score it based on what it thinks will do well. And then obviously I apply my own judgment as well. Sometimes there are just topics I want to talk about that I think are important to talk about. um Like a lot of people overlooked Brave’s initial research on AI browsers. That was like a while ago. I posted about it on TikTok a while ago, but it really didn’t explode until OpenAI released Atlas last week or two weeks ago. And people were like, wait, this is not safe.

24:27
But that’s a topic that my AI system didn’t find. I randomly found it just reading through social media. I was like, oh, I should talk about this. all I mean there is there’s room for human judgment. There’s certain topics I feel are important. And then, yeah, so basically I’ll take whatever the research was for that topic and then plug it into Blotato. I have a TikTok default script that I like to use. And then it just spits it out.

24:51
Sometimes if I’m like get a little low on views the past week, I’ll spend extra time on the hook. So I have another thing in Bloatado called a viral AI coach where you can up you first record your video and then upload it. So I’ll record like 10 seconds the hook, including a visual hook and then upload it to that viral AI coach to get an additional layer of feedback.

25:15
I didn’t know that existed. lot of people don’t. But once you find it, it’s really awesome, especially for beginners. So you can upload an entire video, but it’s really focused on analyzing the first 20 seconds. So it’ll transcribe it. It’ll analyze it visually for the visual appeal of the hooks. And then it’ll give you a scorecard of how was the first hook, how was the second hook, et cetera. OK.

25:42
You record it first and then you use that. I’m feeling like I need to work on the… Like I want more views this week. I really need to work on the hooks.

25:53
Yeah, my ego is like that too. If I’m low on views, my ego needs that fix. So, okay, so for filming, uh do you just kind of add lip based off of notes or do you have a teleprompter? So I only use a teleprompter if I’m literally reading a list. Otherwise, I can’t remember the list. I don’t normally use a teleprompter. So literally what I’ll do, I don’t have it here, but I just have like a selfie stick that holds my phone up. And then my computer.

26:21
with the notes from Bloatato will just be like right there. So it’ll just be like my phone, notes, I can just glance at it and wing it honestly. And then that’s it, that’s the video.

26:33
Okay. And then your routine is, do you do three a day or do you just batch? I batch everything in one day of content creation. Okay. Okay. And then the rest of the time I imagine. People think I create, people think it’s the opposite. Like I must spend all my time creating content. Um, I specifically built Lotato so that I don’t have to spend all my time creating content. Right. Um, but yeah, most of my week is like,

26:59
fixing bugs, building new features and answering support tickets. Like that’s pretty much it for the week.

27:07
And then assuming you follow this process of posting three times a week, or sorry, three times a day, when did you start feeling, traction? Yeah, that’s a good question. So in the very beginning, I only posted one LinkedIn post a day. That was for a month. I actually had one LinkedIn post go viral. And it was about like the new way of building AI startups. um That had a lot of interesting discussion.

27:33
But I didn’t start posting TikTok until maybe like June or July. And then it took like three months to get out of 200 view jail. Like my next milestone was 1000 views regularly. And to do that from, distinctly remember from 200 to 1000, what made all the difference was using hashtags. Just using hashtag AI, hashtag chat GPT. And that was it. Cause I apparently, wasn’t doing that before I didn’t realize that was a thing. Yeah.

28:03
And then my very first video that did well, was because I use creator search insights on TikTok, where it was like, uh if folks aren’t familiar with it, basically TikTok tells you what people are searching for and you can even find content gaps. like maybe people are searching for voice AI apps and there’s a content gap for it. So you can make a video for that. And that was my first video ever that did more than 1000 views. But yeah, but this was three months in already.

28:31
Right. And so if I had given up earlier, then like none of what’s happened would have happened. I mean, most people don’t make it to three months. And that’s why I’m asking that question. Like you got to stick through, in my opinion, you should stick with it for at least a year. in my mind, I was like, this is my five year commitment. Right. Five years. I just think of in terms of years. I don’t even think in terms of weeks or months. Yeah. No, I’m the same way. Three to five years is my thing.

29:00
And and blowtato is like a long-term thing for you too, I would imagine, right? So let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about vibe coding because I’ve noticed you talked a lot about it. I’m an EE and I used to design microprocessors for a living. You’re a CS major. I hear you talk a lot about it. So do you think the average Joe can do it effectively? Oh, yeah. I mean, my 22 year old cousin just quit his full-time job, moved in to our house. We call it a hacker house now.

29:27
And he just vibe coded his second app last night, which is, I don’t know if he’s listening, but you basically take a picture of your Instagram post and you get a virality prediction score for it. Because he was marketing his first app, which was a study tool for college students. He was marketing it on TikTok and Instagram. And he was like, oh, it’d be really cool if I also had this tool. And it’s fully functional. You can sign up for it. I forgot the name of his new one.

29:56
uh But yeah, he’s 22 years old with absolutely zero background in technology. So I think vibe coding can work really well for simpler apps. But what I always tell people is like the goal of vibe coding is to hire a full-time engineer. That’s the goal. The goal is to like validate your MVP, get paying users, get it to the point where like people are like, why does this keep breaking? But that means they want to use it, you know? And then you have that validation and confidence and conviction to go hire like a real tech person.

30:26
to the rest out, maintain the code base, probably refactor 95 % of the code base. That’s what I did. uh Bloatato, I vibe coded the first version with Cursor AI. I filmed myself doing it, so it’s on YouTube. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, the MVP, like the version that got my initial set of 100 paying customers. It didn’t even have publishing, by the way. Like that’s how MVP it was. Like it was a social media tool. You couldn’t actually publish it. uh

30:53
social media, but like the very core feature was just that remixing that repurposing, right? In an article, get posts out in your voice or in a viral voice. ah But yeah, you couldn’t even publish to social media at that point. Well, I know I am loving I call it vibe coding, I guess, but ah because I feel like we’re I’m not really a developer. And it sounds like you don’t portray yourself as developer either. I don’t like you know, wait.

31:21
way more to be dangerous. But right now I feel like invincible. Like I feel like I can create anything. And I’ve literally been going down like the Shopify app store and just running a lot of these apps literally in a weekend because they’re so simple. Right. But then again, I also run a class and some of these people it’s hard for them right because it spits out a bunch of stuff. It doesn’t work. then you’re really hearing mindset. Yeah. Yeah. And you can’t really look at it. So what I want to get out of you today is

31:50
Let’s say you are someone who’s not tech savvy, was your cousin or your brother? Yeah, my younger cousin. Your younger cousin, right. So where should they start? Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of good vibe coding tutorials online. So for example, this past newsletter this weekend, I walked through how to use lovable cloud to vibe code a lead magnet. And I think a lead magnet is actually a pretty good starting point because you don’t have like a complex backend. You don’t need authentication. You don’t need payment provider on top.

32:20
But this was still an interactive little app, meaning you answered a bunch of questions, it spit out an ROI calculator and a personalized report, and you can even put in your email address so you can capture emails. In other words, it’s a true lead magnet, or people can put in their emails and stuff. And things like that are really good starting point, again. Not a very complex backend, it was really just storing your emails and responses that people put into your lead magnet. No authentication, no payment system either.

32:49
Another example I vibe coded- Does that email go straight to a specific provider or is it just putting it on like a sheet or something? So lovable cloud, as long as you connect to your SuperBase account, it will spin up the database, create the database schema, and then it will just insert the emails into SuperBase. And then you can just click one button, you can grab everybody’s emails right there. For everyone listening, SuperBase is just like a database and from what I’m-

33:14
understanding there’s no hooks into e-popular email providers. It just puts in a database that you can extract and add it to your provider, right? Yeah, exactly. And you could hook it up with something like Resend. So Lovable has a pretty streamlined integration with Resend if you actually want to send out emails from the app itself. But again, I would probably consider that like step two or MVP.

33:35
um The other example I was going to say, just posted a video on this, is my AI agents and automations directory. It had 37,000 visitors in the past three months. It was vibe coded in just a few hours. And obviously I’ll put a couple links there to Plotino so it helps drive. but I’m sorry, what did the app do? So it’s a directory of automations. So let’s say you’re looking for…

33:58
marketing automations in N8n or make.com. can filter like marketing, N8n is your platform, and then it’ll just show you a bunch. You click on one, you can see like who made it, you can contact them for help, and you can download the template. It’s literally like a single page directory and the data is just in SuperBase. But that’s another example of like, you know, start there, start with like something. How come no matter what I type, it always points me to blow tato? don’t know.

34:26
That’s cool. Yeah, I can totally see something simple like that. Absolutely. I didn’t even know Lovable had a database attachment. Oh, yeah, it’s pretty new. Okay. Yeah, it was basically one of the biggest complaints, but it’s called Lovable Cloud. And basically, it’ll manage your SuperBase for you, set everything up, because it was really annoying the way you had to do it before. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was only a front end before. I didn’t know. So is Lovable what you would recommend to someone just completely green to this?

34:55
I think so. um The other ones are strong as well. I’ve been really impressed with emergent.sh lately. I haven’t used that one. What is that? It’s similar to lovable, but it can also build mobile apps. uh Instead of SuperBase, I believe it’s using Mongo, the object storage. uh It’s really neat. Everyone I’ve shown it to has been blown away by the level of polish that you get. With that said, though, my husband and I, on our last livestream, we actually tried

35:24
building a mobile app live and submitting it to the App Store. And we almost got there. However, when we actually downloaded the code base and tried to build it locally before submitting it, there were so many issues with the emergent code base, like out of date libraries, things were missing. And so I would say it’s not completely streamlined for mobile development yet, but it’s a brand new player and it’s incredibly promising. So I would probably recommend lovable.dev.

35:53
emergent.sh or I know a lot of people who also still love bolt.new and that can also build mobile apps. So how do you, how do you distinguish? Cause it’s kind of dizzying. There’s like a new platform every day. So I’ve been trying to train my son to use Replet recently.

36:10
Do you use, what do you use, you use Cursor for Bloatado or? For Bloatado, yeah. mean, a lot of these did not exist at the time. Like, Lovable, I had not even heard of, I don’t think it had launched publicly at the time I was filming me vibe coding. So I was using Cursor AI. Okay. And then, I mean, Cursor by itself is just, I mean, you were just generating code, right? And you had your own platform for, okay, because you’re a CS major. Is your husband tech also?

36:40
Oh yeah, so electrical engineering, computer science. We actually met in our data structures class in undergrad. And we had like one of the hardest professors, everybody at least from Berkeley knows him. And the beginning of the class was like 150 people. By the end it was like 25. I can’t remember if that was a weed out class. I don’t remember. But yeah, for CS majors. All right. So if you’re new, it sounds like lovable. You can make simple apps.

37:09
Lead Magnets is a good use case, I think. uh For you, sounds like you did you end up hiring developers then? And you still get the refactor all your code or are you maintaining it? No, I’m maintaining it. Yeah. And so I don’t use Cursor AI anymore. So I’ve definitely switched to Cloud Code, which I highly, highly recommend if you have a complex existing code base. But yeah, it’s a lot of work, I will say. I think I forgot how much work.

37:36
a startup is. So I’m building my brand solo. I’m also building Blotato solo. um For me, it’s more of like an intellectual challenge. How far can I go solo? I’m not at all saying I believe that’s the optimal approach if my goal is only to optimize revenue. I can definitely see like it would be really nice to have another developer. For example, if I’m doing marketing, then suddenly like product development just stops.

38:03
because my focus is on marketing. I’m traveling to an event next week and I’m not gonna be able to publish uh new features. I’ll be able to barely maintain the code base, maybe fix a few bugs. But yeah, it’s been a lot doing it all solo. Isn’t that your husband’s job? No, He has a totally different set of ambitions. What you’re doing is actually my dream. What I fear is actually the support.

38:33
And I know I’ve asked you a couple of questions on Bloatado and I never wanted to press anything just because I know you’re busy doing other things. But uh that has been my greatest fear because you always underestimate someone’s uh technical ability or overestimate, should say, any tools. What has been the biggest challenge for you with Bloatado, actually? I think it’s exactly that um because I’m in it every day and I don’t see what other people see.

38:59
Like when the remix screen to me made sense, I showed it to some other creator friends. They’re like, yeah, I get it. But the typical person who doesn’t have a strong background in content creation, they’re just like, I don’t know what to do at this step. And so my biggest challenge has just been like, being less technical or like simplifying it or streamlining the flows for beginners to kind of get up and running. um

39:23
Even to this day, I don’t necessarily recommend Bloatado to absolute beginners. It’s really helpful if you have been trying to create content on your own for a little bit so you can kind of understand, like, oh, repurposing it. Oh, here’s, I just add my own voice. Okay, here’s my content calendar. I can schedule it out. But yeah, that’s been a big challenge. Support is also definitely a big challenge to scale. It’s tough. I get 100 to 200 support tickets a day.

39:50
And yes, I have an AI support bot that does it and does a pretty good job, but you still have to update the knowledge base all the time. ah Like I just pushed a new feature where you can now schedule through the API, schedule a post to your next tree slot. I have to update the documentation, update the AI bot so it refreshes its knowledge base, uh look for anything else in the documentation that might have outdated knowledge. And I use Clot Code to help me with that, like identify things that are outdated.

40:19
But it’s a lot of work. Like it really, really does add up. So you don’t have a dedicated support person. Is it a one man show right now still? Literally. Yeah. People are really surprised when I just hop in the support chat and I’m like, okay. Amazing. Okay. So that is one way to reach me. I if you really want me to reply. Yeah. So it sounds like support is really the pretty much the only manual thing that you have to take care of outside of the coding, which is for me, it’d be the fun part. Like,

40:48
uh Well, yeah, it’s mostly fun. I think when I get to work on new features, but it’s honestly a lot of plumbing. Like the social API is change or the documentation is horrendous. Like if anyone here is trying to actually, you know, integrate with the social API, it’s pretty like tedious. I’ll say is a nice way of saying it. But yeah, like that stuff is not that fun for me. Honestly.

41:10
um But I have to do it. And it’s probably like 60 % of the work I do is what I consider plumbing. Like not really that fun at all from a developer perspective. I’m using this tool called Repurpose. Actually, I was considering just writing my own version of Bloatado. But then you’re right, I walked through like all the the documentation and then there’s these tokens that expire and then all of sudden you have to manage it. I’m like, screw it, I’m just going to paste it. Okay, so

41:41
To code something like Bloatado sounds like it’s much more involved for someone. ah I will say, think you could build the same MVP I built in probably a few hours now with how vibe coding tools have evolved. But I always like to caveat people that when it comes to building product, launching it and getting users is the start of your product development journey. So to build Bloatado what it is today would take significantly more work than just spinning it up in immersion.

42:10
But you can definitely build the initial first version V2, V3 in Lovable or Emergent today for sure. Well, it’s all fun and games when you’re the only one using it. Yeah, exactly. As soon as it gets to the masses, all hell breaks loose. uh OK, there’s one more thing I wanted to talk to you about, uh which I’m drawing a blank now. But uh Sabrina, in terms of your marketing,

42:37
What has been your most effective way to just get users actually on the Blotato? I would say tutorials on YouTube. um Long form or…? Yeah, long form. Because I think it’s attracting people who are very much already looking for a solution and already pretty educated on the problem. Especially for the API, would say YouTube long form tutorials with automation templates has been the primary driver of API users.

43:05
um For the non-API users, Instagram has actually been pretty good as well. So posting videos as well as carousels are just different features that I have. I’ve had a few viral videos on TikTok specifically for the faceless video creation in Bloatado. So that’s been really helpful as well. But I can tell it like I had another marketing experiment where just did a faceless channel. It got hundreds of millions of views, had a Bloatado watermark, but a very, very low conversions.

43:33
So like that was, you know, I was really excited about the views and also just proving that Blotato can work for this use case around like face story videos. But terrible, terrible conversions. Like just because you put a watermark there does not mean it’s targeted to your audience. They don’t know what that watermark reference is. Like why should they go there? Yeah. So, so it seems like you’re using short form for awareness and then the long form YouTube videos to actually convert them into customers.

44:00
Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly. And that’s how my entire kind of brand funnel is laid out. Like I kind of assume short form content. It’s just not as authority building as long form content. So I want all of my social short forms to link back to my YouTuber newsletter. Okay. And then your newsletter, uh is it once they sign up or no, that’s right. You have an AI newsletter. Yeah, yeah, that’s separate. So yeah, my goal for social is like everybody on my email list.

44:29
It’s by far highest ROI. And I had always heard that as a creator, but I don’t think I believed it until I saw it myself. But it’s really nice having control of your own distribution list and not being at whims of the algorithm every other week. And I know you have a Discord group also, right? um Is that one of your primary lead gens also?

44:55
Is it an email? No, it’s not. Yeah. So I just created a Discord community for women building in AI, just because honestly, it can get lonely and I just wanted to meet more other women builders in AI. But it’s a pretty small group, like a couple hundred women, and we’re testing it out in school as well. We’re trying to figure out, should we stay in Discord or should we move over to school? I love Discord because of the coding aspects. I you too, right? It’s infinitely powerful. Yeah.

45:24
I grew up playing video. I have three brothers. So grew up playing video games and I’ve used Discord for as long as I’ve known. I can tell just by your chairs. But Sabrina, hey, it’s been great talking to you. If people want to sign up for your newsletter or check out your tool, where can they go? What’s the best place? Yeah. So for my newsletter, go to Sabrina.dev and that’s honestly, yeah, the best place. Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

45:54
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’re not using Claude or BlowTato at this point, make sure you check out these tools because they will change your life. more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 631. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at seller summat.com and we are almost sold out at this point. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event.

46:23
go to SellersSummit.com.

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630: OpenAI Pulls Back. TikTok Reverses Course. Ecommerce Just Got Messy

630: OpenAI Pulls Back. TikTok Reverses Course. Ecommerce Just Got Messy

In this episode, Toni and I break down a series of sudden moves that caught a lot of sellers off guard this week. Several major platforms quietly changed direction, and the ripple effects could impact how products are discovered, sold, and fulfilled going forward. Enjoy the episode!

What You’ll Learn

  • Why Openai Hit The Brakes
  • Tiktokโ€™s Surprise About-face
  • How Ecommerce Got Chaotic

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, Tony and I break down a series of sudden moves that caught a lot of sellers off guard this past week. Several major platforms quietly changed direction and the ripple effects could impact how products are discovered, sold, and fulfilled going forward. Enjoy the episode. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com.

00:27
And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical, step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate.

00:54
We cap attendance at around 200 people so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:30
Welcome to the My Wife, Quit Her Job podcast. Today we’re going to be covering like all the latest news in e-commerce and online business. And as of right now today, it came out that e-commerce just hit 16.6 % of all sales, which sounds low, but it’s actually like at an all time high right now. More more people are shopping online. Well, I don’t know about you, but the Amazon truck in my neighborhood is a staple.

01:57
I don’t know if you have the, I’m sure you guys do have the electric delivery. Oh yeah, yeah, of course. And I’ll be walking the dogs or whatever and it’s just like, I hear them, you know, all through the, I mean, it’s just, feel like, I mean, I’m surprised that that seems low to me. Actually, let me tell you a story about Amazon. This just happened to my wife. I don’t know if you’ve shot, you’ve probably shopped on Amazon lately. I’ve noticed that they’ve started placing the add to cart button right above the buy now button on certain products. Oh.

02:26
So Jen accidentally ordered three of the same thing because she accidentally clicked the buy now button. Oh, instead of add to cart. Which is literally underneath the add to cart button. And so she adds to cart and she buys now, like she buys now a couple of times by accident. And then she notices that it’s not in her cart at checkout, so she adds it again. But the buy now is like a one click checkout. Yes, yes. So she ends up placing two separate orders.

02:55
individual orders, adding to cart, going to checkout and then placing that third order because you didn’t think the other ones went through. now you have three grand pianos. And so now we have this three three things and they’re not eligible for returns for some reason. Yeah, they’re small items. And so you actually have to go through live chat to get the refund and then you don’t have to return it. Anyway, it’s this whole hassle. Well, I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but

03:23
uh I have prime TV. guess everybody who has prime has prime TV. Yeah. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but it seems like every time I watch something on prime TV, the ah the by the Amazon ad in the corner of your screen where you can literally take your remote control and buy now is is on there. Like I feel like six months ago, I saw it occasionally. Now it’s every single commercial break or at it’s not really commercial, I guess ads.

03:52
uh It has one of those add to cart. Have you ever bought anything? No, I haven’t but I’m tempted to just because I want to see the process like can you completely check out on your television? Do you have to add it to the cart and then you have to go to your phone? I’m assuming you probably do everything on your TV. You don’t have to do anything else. sure I mean if you can click on one button by accident Yeah, and buy a whole bunch of things and yes, you can check out from your TV Yeah, for sure, which is scary because that means your kids can just check out on your TV

04:20
That is concerning, right? I my kids are all older, so that wouldn’t happen, but or they would and they would know they were doing it. But yeah, I could see one of my grandkids just all of a sudden getting 50 uh K-pop plus dollars. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I just thought of that because when I heard that e-commerce was at its all time high, it’s like tactics like these this, you know. Well, here’s the other thing. They make it so easy to shop.

04:48
Whereas I don’t see, I don’t shop in stores. So I’m not the best person to talk about this, but when I do go to a store, it’s often very frustrating. Like you can’t find, I mean, the one store I do go to is Home Depot, right? It’s rare that you can find someone that can help you. know, it’s always, you know, someone’s on their lunch break or this person, you have to wait for them to page somebody else. The lines are long, right? If you have to return, I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to return anything anywhere in a store, but like the lines are long, the parking lots are crowded. To me, it’s like, it’s not even worth.

05:17
I’ll have Home Depot, if I know what I need, I’ll have Home Depot deliver it. It’s like, don’t even want that experience anymore because I feel like the in-person shopping experience, unless you’re shopping really high end, is not fantastic. Doesn’t Brian go there every day? Isn’t he know Home Depot better than employees? right now. Okay, right. I was about to say. Yes, but sometimes I tag along on the weekends. here’s a big shock to me. Well, maybe it wasn’t that huge of a shock, but

05:46
OpenAI basically just canceled their agentic integration for purchasing. So the idea was that you do a search on OpenAI or a query and the products come up and then you buy right there on the platform without having to go to the website. They decided to back down on that, back off from that. And I understand why actually, because I was reading about it. Like a long time ago, Facebook tried to do this.

06:15
And I actually signed up for it. I was kind of excited about it where you can just check out right there. the the for me, we sell personalized items. And Facebook did like a horrible job with personalized items or any little add ons that you could make on a product. And I think just the intricacies of product feeds, options and all that stuff, major pain in the butt for people. Plus, it’s like this other interface they have to worry about to write where orders are coming from.

06:43
And that’s what I found with the Facebook Instagram experience. Because back in the day, like you could click off to the website, they discontinued that and forced you to use Facebook checkout. And we got a couple orders that ended up being a major pain in the butt, so I just turned it off entirely. And like that whole Facebook shop on there, it kind of died as a result. I heard that OpenAI released this thing, and I heard only double digits worth of stores actually signed up for it.

07:14
Interesting in all of Shopify, right? It was available to all the Shopify people. the fact that people weren’t signing up to it, I think that’s part of the reason why they decided to just shelve it. Interesting. I feel like that might come back. It’s supposed I mean, they didn’t shelve it for good. Right. They’ve just backed off from it because, you know, they got other things to worry about, I guess, like a fight with Anthropic and Google and all this other stuff that’s going on.

07:42
But I was a little shocked that more people, like I signed up for the beta since I’m not on Shopify and I never got any notifications. And then Etsy was already live with it too. And I guess that didn’t get very good adoption either. Well, we’ll see what happens with that. I feel like that might make another round. But it is such a major pain. Yeah, but I mean, at some point I think they’re gonna work out the kinks, right?

08:09
Well, mean, Facebook didn’t work out to kinks. Like, just think of all the different shipping options that you might offer or… uh Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. If it’s more of a pain than it’s worth. Like, to click on a website too, then you get like all the other information, I believe, as well. Right. I don’t know. We’ll see. I don’t know. I feel like if an app like Comment Sold can figure it out and how to integrate with Shopify, then I don’t know. Maybe.

08:38
It’s totally different concept, but I feel like there’s other things that are able to figure the integrations out. I think where this is all going is Google put out this new protocol, which I’m going to integrate with my site, which essentially allows like an AI agent to go and shop at your store, not from a browser, you know, program programmatically. And so maybe what will happen is all the AIs will adopt that and not have to browse

09:08
like on a browser to actually buy your products. I don’t know. Maybe. Did you know like right now, when an AI, like if you have an AI fill out a form, the way it works is it takes a photo of the form, fills it out each time, takes another snapshot to make sure it’s correct. And so that’s why it just takes forever for Oh, I did not know that. Yeah. Okay. Maybe that’s changed as of now, but that’s what I read somewhere. Yeah.

09:36
Okay, so that was something that was just kind of shocking to me that that happened so early. We’ve been talking about this internally with one of my clients for the past month about, we need to be, this is on the radar, let’s be ready, this, that, the other, and now I guess it’s off the radar. I think what’s more important is showing up in AI search, right? Yes. I mean, that’s the most important part about I we have a talk about that at Seller Summit. I hope we do too. Do we?

10:04
We do, of course. Jeff Oxford. I’m actually going to touch upon it, too. Jeff is going to do, obviously, most of the heavy lifting. But I’m going to talk about it in my talk. And then I’m going to code a Shopify app that allows you to do what I did, essentially. Nice. I haven’t written the talk yet. that’s part of my That’s part of my talk. So two kind of semi-talks on ranking and AI search, which is very important today. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

10:31
Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for, how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business.

11:00
And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves. So my advisor told me what needed to change, it was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers. And by the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light

11:29
will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com. It’s funny, I think I was talking to somebody yesterday in one of my communities and she was saying that she got super, she is like a, I think she’s a programmer. I’m not quite sure what her day job is, but she watched some stuff on vibe coding and over the weekend, vibe coded a bunch of stuff for her webs.

11:57
She’s like, oh, it was so easy. I just sat down and you know, and a half an hour, know, half an afternoon and got it done. I was like, yeah, I mean. Okay, so Tony, I have to I’m going to talk about it here. And I wish like I had the bandwidth to give multiple talks at Seller Summit this year. Yeah, but I have been using Claude code for content. And so now I have this like set of agents and sub agents where I have it researched the topic for me.

12:27
and then draft out like the scripts for my YouTube channel and then automatically generate the TikToks and the Instagram reels and the LinkedIn posts and then auto posts the social part. And I have this like really long file that reflects how the content is in my personality and the way I write by training it with like, I have probably like hundreds and hundreds of pages of scripts, YouTube scripts that I fed in.

12:56
Yeah. So it understood my voice and now it is drastically sped up everything. Interesting. And it’s actually not that hard to set up. I’m going to try to give a lesson in the class, but it might be kind of like a long lesson, but once you get this set up, saves a tremendous amount of time. Oh, I only imagine. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s funny that I came up with this because like I’ve been using Cloud Code to code, right? Right. But the fact that there’s code in the name,

13:25
I think scares people into thinking like, oh my God, I got a code, right? But it’s not really like that. It’s kind of like you tell it what you want and it does it. It’s like the spouse we wish we all had, For anything. And I’m not even joking. And most people that I’ve encountered, even in the Silicon Valley, they’re just using Claude or ChatGBT based on the interface, right? Like the web page.

13:54
And that’s the most inefficient way to do it because it doesn’t really remember all the little details of what you need. So by setting all this stuff up in Claude code or Claude cowork, I chose to use Claude code and not cowork. Anything that you do, like anytime I make a script now, it gets better because it’s trained on everything new that I’m working on. And so over time, like I’ll have this

14:23
you know, incredible agent where I hopefully have to do very minimal work to get to get stuff out. Yeah, I think I think this is where this is a whole nother podcast. But I think one of the things that I’ve noticed is that people that seem to hate AI or think it’s terrible or don’t like their results don’t really understand the how to work and really maximize the value. This new ad agency that we’re working with, they have em they’ve built this internally. Right. But it basically scrapes

14:52
all of your content, social, video, blog posts, products, wherever you are on the web. It also records all your phone calls with them. so it takes, which I think is crazy because I was using it the other day and it quoted me in the response. I was like, Tony Hervach says, this is weird because you just quoted Gary V above this. So I don’t know if this is this should not be in the same paragraph. But uh

15:20
It’s very interesting because we’re getting really good results from it because it has all of that information, right? It has conversations, it has videos, it has scripts, has blog, you know, it has all the things in there. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in e-commerce that you should all check out.

15:48
It contains both video and text-based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. That means you gotta be more careful about what you say. No cursing, right?

16:17
curse on work calls. Tony gives f-bombs. But no, it does make, because there was one time where, yeah, there was one time it quoted me and I was like, I don’t know if I want that to be forever in AI. But uh yeah, think the fact that they

16:37
record the calls is like the most interesting, because a lot of people can feed in all their information, right? Also scrapes comments on social media and that kind of stuff, which I think is fantastic. But the recording of the calls, think that’s where it’s done, where then now the agent really gets the voice, especially of, not of me, but from me and other people on the calls, it gets the like company idea, right? Of like all those things. But then when they talk to the founder, they’re getting her voice.

17:04
which I think is really important and it’s much better than anything we’ve used outside of that. You know what, I’m gonna talk to Chris Schaeffer. So Chris Schaeffer is giving a talk on the one man content show. Machine or whatever. Machine, yeah. I wonder if he’s gonna be talking about cloud code. I’ll talk to him right after this, but there’s gonna be a talk at Seller Summit about this. Yeah, okay. What else do we have? Okay, one thing, so I got all excited about this.

17:33
six months to a year ago, which was using AI avatars to give testimonials for ads. that? I think it was like last year. Yeah. Is it last year? Yeah. And so there was all these services that were popping up. And what you would do is you would take real testimonials that you’ve gotten, choose an AI avatar that looks really realistic because it’s not you training your own face. It’s like they’re preset avatars that they’ve already trained to recite these testimonials and then you can use them on ads. Yeah. Well,

18:03
New York just passed a law that does not allow AI avatars, especially in testimonials and ads. And I think California had something similar too. I think that’s good. I agree. I think that’s a good thing too. I mean, I think all this stuff is really cool, but I don’t know. I feel like for testimonials, it kind of it reminds me of like to roll back when.

18:27
You know, there were a lot of like bloggers and influencers that were just like reviewing every single product under the sun and just like it was like testimonial to say, but it was like, you’re not really a user of this product. Right. And so it got to the point where you couldn’t really rely on content creators to recommend products because it felt like, you know, if they were just a review machine, you know, it’s like, well, how do I know that you actually really love this and not aren’t getting, you know, I mean, obviously you have to disclose if you get paid, but.

18:54
I don’t know, I feel like the AI is very similar. Although they are using real reviews, it still feels, I don’t know, feels a little sleazy. It does, but if you think about it, what you just said, like half the, I’d say all the creators who are paid, like, I mean, most of them probably don’t really like the product to begin with. actually, one of my upcoming YouTube videos is kind of about this, but the distrust factor,

19:24
for brands is at an all time high. Because of AI, uh every creator under the sun is saying like whatever product is like the best thing that they’ve ever used. And it’s just getting tiring. Like I don’t trust any of that stuff I see anymore. Yeah, so actually this is not about AI but like piggybacking on that is that is why founder content is such a hot commodity right now.

19:50
Yep. And I don’t know, I spent I literally was up till 2am last week, which I could not afford to be up till 2am watching the fast food wars. Did you see any of this? No, we have completely different feeds. No, this. What the This made national news. Oh, you’re talking about the burger? Yes. Yeah, I did. Yeah, that was a burger product. They did it on purpose. There’s a lot of debate whether McDonald’s did that on purpose.

20:15
purpose or not, if you haven’t seen this Google McDonald’s CEO eats a hamburger, basically this was the kickoff video where, you know, he introducing their new hamburger and this man clearly does not eat at McDonald’s ever, right? And he takes, he talks about the product, like the burger as if it’s like a piece of fabric or like a commodity, right? And.

20:37
And he calls it a burger product. He doesn’t just call it a burger. It was so bad. And then he takes this bite and it’s like, I don’t actually think he got any of the burger in his mouth. Right. It’s like the smallest bite I’ve ever seen. It’s like when you ask your kid to eat like a vegetable and they take like just a nibble of the top. um So what was amazing about this is all the other CEOs made videos. in some of them are like the A &W Root Beer guy literally

21:06
looks nothing like the McDonald’s guy dressed up like him and literally did it word for word with his own products. And he’s like, we don’t really call it a burger product around here. We just call it a burger. know, like it was so fantastic. The Wendy’s guy was awesome. He’s like, we cook our burgers fresh. It shows them on the grill. And then he goes and he’s like, we need to wash it down with a frosty. And he’s like, because our machines always work. Yeah.

21:32
Like the amount of shade thrown, also like the amount of like, like there were restaurants I didn’t know existed, right? Cause it’s like, I founded this fried chicken place that doesn’t exist in the South, right? So I don’t know about it. It’s probably out by you. um But I think that founder content, like that’s, I think that’s really a big way to combat some of the AI problems, right? Where like people are like platforms are.

21:58
moving away from like accepting that. was just telling you earlier, my son’s TikTok got demonetized because he’s making AI videos, but they’re like animated, right? So it’s not, he’s not pretending to be a real person. He’s making animation, but he can’t monetize it because it’s AI. So I think this founder content, if you do sell something, anything, digital, physical, um everyone wants to know how they can make faceless content, but like the founder content is what’s really hitting because it’s a way to come.

22:27
combat the this is fake, these reviews are paid. It’s like, well, of course, you know, except for the McDonald’s founder, everyone should love their products uh and should at least be able to talk about them. I think it’s why uh our friend Meg, who sells the hermit crab stuff is her videos are doing really well on TikTok, right? Like they’re getting engagement even for like not a huge account because she’s literally packing snail poop or whatever it is. I don’t know. Like, it’s gross.

22:55
But I think that’s what resonates with people right now. And it also resonates with the platforms, right? So they are giving priority to that type of content and pushing it out to people because it is not AI. Yeah. I mean, just the whole distrust factor with influencers. I mean, influencers still work, obviously. I mean, it’s the foundation of TikTok shop, but I think there’s a growing fatigue for some these. Unless the product in itself,

23:23
is the reason to buy it, like when you demonstrate it online. Okay. The other thing that’s going on is Amazon has just been cracking down like crazy on listings with I don’t want to say false claims, but any claim at all that is unsubstantiated. So you have to be really careful now what you say. Like they’re taking things down for like best whatever or even relief of a certain symptom.

23:53
Interesting. Right. And so, yeah, if you have a listing and it could be like a year old or two years old and it’s been running fine, all of sudden gets suspended. Wow. And uh just be on the lookout for that. And if it’s already happened to you, obviously you’re already on the lookout. But I might preemptively go back to my listings and take a look just to make sure. I wonder, do you think this will help like legit third party sellers?

24:21
versus some of these like, you know, I don’t want to I don’t want to say Chinese suppliers, but that’s really what it is. um You know, putting I mean, we talked a long time ago with someone from Seller Summit that was like, yeah, they they make like 10 different brands. They put all this stuff up. m Do you think that’ll help? Maybe not. I don’t know. I think it’ll be neutral because I mean, maybe they won’t get away with some of the stuff. Yeah. But.

24:50
The way it is now, people are just copying listing copy. Like if they look at the number one of the top five people, and they’ll just kind of copy the guts of their listing. That’s what I don’t like about any marketplace actually. There’s just like rampant copying and one-up-smanship. Because that’s really all you can do to differentiate yourself and your photos, which are now easily copyable too.

25:16
Which I think is why being a brand just gets so much more valuable every day. I 100 % agree. You know what’s funny? Someone asked me about e-commerce versus content the other day and I almost feel like selling physical products is a more secure position today, right? Because you’re not going to get knocked off by a flood of AI. It’s actually something physical and that’s something that I probably wouldn’t have said last year even.

25:45
I think it’s true if you have your own store. don’t think it’s true. I mean, we know a lot of people that only sell on Amazon, and that’s where I think I don’t. To me, that’s not safe at all. And I don’t know if you follow like like the jobs report, but like we all said, it’s not good. And again, it doesn’t have to be e-commerce, obviously, but just any side hustle at all. Yeah, like I’d get on that. Oh, yeah. I just telling you, I was helping my son with his side hustle yesterday. um

26:15
Yeah, it’s you know, it’s interesting to me and I’m not debating the jobs report. It’s not it’s gloomy But why why are all the restaurants packed? Like have you noticed a good question? Yeah, like and I did I have a theory but Usually like and I’m old enough to remember like 2009 right where it was like massive downturn in the economy and Restaurants were not packed right restaurants were closing and there’s still restaurants closing for sure

26:44
But like when I’m out and about and last week I was traveling so I was out almost every meal, like every dinner I was in a different restaurant in a city I don’t live in. you know, every restaurant, every table was full. People waiting outside on, you know, a Tuesday. Right. Which is, you know, probably not a normal restaurant. I don’t know. um I really think this is still a lingering post pandemic thing. Well, I had read somewhere that like the top five percent spent almost all the money.

27:14
In the US? The top 5 % aren’t eating a Chipotle. Well, no, I mean, they do. Yeah. Maybe it was like top 10 % spend like almost all the money. fancy restaurants. was in like Chili’s, you know. Yeah, I know. I know. But I know a lot of the restaurant industry is hurting because there’s only so many times that like the wealthy can go out to eat, right? Three times a day. But maybe that’s not the case for like

27:42
Was it like a chili? Chili’s has a great deal. It’s actually pretty inexpensive to eat there. Yeah, chili’s is great. I told my daughter she’s got some job security. uh even uh my other kid works at like, it’s not Chipotle, but it’s like a Chipotle and they’re busy all the time. So anyway, I don’t know. That’s one thing where I always feel like that’s one thing you can cut really quickly and really decrease your spending, right? As you just make your food at home. it’s so even with the…

28:08
grocery prices being high, it’s still significantly cheaper. Maybe not with the chili’s deal, but outside of that, like you can make dinner for much less than you can eat out with. yeah, for sure. Especially like, I don’t know if you’ve been through Chick-fil-A lately. It’s like I had to buy Chick-fil-A for everybody when we were stuck traveling. It was four people and it was like fifty five dollars and it wasn’t like extravagant. Chick-fil-A is expensive. Yeah, but even McDonald’s is expensive these days, you know. um

28:36
But yeah, that’s one thing that I thought was interesting is that restaurants still seem crowded. But well, I mean, just uh there is a stat. Forty four percent more people are buying secondhand than a year ago. I mean, the economy is is hurting. mean, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t see it that much in the news, but like I can just tell by, for example, like the employees that we have, you know, things are getting tighter and whatnot. So I’ve and I’ve heard that from a couple of people where their spouse works in an industry where

29:06
You know, it’s it’s not like a guaranteed 40 hours a week and their their time is being cut. Right. Well, I miss the time to start the furniture flipping business. Right. That’s your thing. I would never do that. But yeah. No. But like like to your point about side hustles, like this is the time to really be, I think, digging into something like that and seeing what you can come up with. Yeah. In other news, Tick Tock

29:35
rescinded their requirement to use fulfilled by TikTok. Thank goodness. Thank God I got that YouTube video out in time because literally the week later they made that announcement. Because in that video I was like, this is a bold move, but they might be able to pull it off, Forcing everyone. Well, I guess it turns out that they could not pull it off. It’s funny because- tons of backlash. Yes, I just, before they rescinded it, I just told somebody, ah, this is probably not the best time to get on TikTok to sell. Let’s, let’s-

30:05
You know, not if it’s fulfilled by TikTok, like that we don’t want to mess with that. um So, yeah, we’ll see. But on the flip side, and this is coming straight from Ian Page’s mouth, the bullseye sellers, he’s in he’s an agency that specialize in TikTok. If you’re not on TikTok shop, like your leash is super short. Like if you’re fulfilling yourself and you make a mistake, you’re going to get banned. Yeah. Right. Or if you don’t fulfill on time, like. Yeah.

30:33
your seller score is very important. And that was the reason that they wanted people on Fulfilled by TikTok. So think about it this way, you have a video that goes viral and all of a sudden you’re used to selling maybe like 100 units a day and all of a sudden it’s like a thousand units. And all of a sudden you can’t do it. And that actually makes TikTok look bad. It makes you look bad. So. Well, and especially if you think about how people buy on TikTok, right? It’s usually an impulse purchase. And so there’s

31:01
I mean, I think it was Ritu that talked about this last year in her talk at Seller Summit, how she saw the suitcase and she was like, this is amazing. And she bought it and it never showed up. Right. And so like she didn’t know anything about the brand. She didn’t know anything about the company. But, you know, now she’ll probably she probably will hesitate before she buys on TikTok again. Right. Because the order that she, you know, legitimate order paid money didn’t get the product. So I can see why they are strict. It’s kind of like with, you know, when uh

31:29
was it seller fulfilled prime? Right, same stringent rules because Amazon has a reputation. Yeah, I mean, Ian’s going to be talking about this, but I suspect because if you do fulfilled by TikTok, it’s a lot of perks like they’ll make you more visible. There’s a badge that you get also. Yeah. So essentially, I think even though they’re not technically forcing everyone on there. Yeah, they’re kind of forcing people on there.

31:58
It’s like going non-prime versus prime, right? Huge difference. Yeah. So and then for our final topic for today, let’s talk about the tariffs. I hate talking about the tariffs. Remember, there was one episode we recorded where it was literally the day that it was announced that it got struck down. Yeah. And we did like a two minute bit on how it was great and everything.

32:24
I don’t if you remember that part. do. I do. But I feel like I don’t want to talk about the tariffs because every in five minutes, this will be outdated. Yes. Actually, that’s true, because literally after we started cheering, it was literally seven hours later. Yeah. Like Trump did something else. I just wanted to just kind of explain what’s going on, especially with the refunds and whatnot, in case you guys are curious. So what got struck down specifically were the IEPA tariffs. These were like the emergency ones that he issued.

32:54
like the crazy one where you held the board, like every country, those all got struck down. And what most people didn’t realize was that for China in particular, that was just like a part of the tariffs. Like China already had these 301 tariffs that have been around since Trump’s first administration. Those did not get struck down at all. Right. And I did a YouTube video on this.

33:22
which I think became obsolete like a week later also because of the stupid tariff topic. this was like before he instituted that additional 15 % tariff or whatnot. So what ended up happening is those got struck down. And then he used like a different loophole or a different rule to issue another 15%. And so what got struck down specifically was about 20 % worth of tariffs on China. And then he added an extra 15 on

33:52
for some other rule, which will probably get struck down too. But what he’s trying to do is he’s trying to add on to those Section 301 tariffs, which have been around for, I don’t know, over four years now. Getting it onto there requires research, and I think this intermediate tariff is just buying time for him to get that going. Now, in terms of the refunds, I mean, this is probably gonna go again. I don’t think anyone’s gonna get any refunds.

34:22
I really, or if someone gets refunds, it’ll be like the large companies maybe. I don’t think the little guys are gonna get their refunds. um So what often happens or what a whole bunch of people did during the tariff period is they use DDP, which stands for delivery duty paid. that’s essentially when the supplier is the importer of record, right? Not you to save money on the tariffs, because there was some other stuff going on.

34:52
they would get the refund, not you, in that case. Because they’re the importer of record. And I guess the question is, and this is what makes this whole thing weird, do we wanna refund the suppliers in China? With a lot of this tariff money? And the large corporations, there’s like 2,000 of that have filed huge lawsuits, which will get tied up. But then recently last week, some court ruling ordered that

35:21
the tariffs be refunded, but there’s no provision, like the Supreme Court didn’t give any provisions for the refund. So I just think it’s a big mess. Yeah. It’s just going to get messier. Yeah. But I mean, if you want even a chance of getting refunds, you need to fill out, you need to get an account. Maybe I’ll link it beneath this podcast, but you need to create an account with the Customs and Border Control. And that’s how they would refund you.

35:51
should a refund ever to occur. But as of this recording, I don’t know anyone who’s gotten anything yet. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was going say good news, bad news, but it’s just news. Yeah, I guess so. mean, I’ll be here’s the good news, actually. The good news is that since those tariffs got struck down, India and Vietnam are like the best places to source from now.

36:18
The China tariffs are still there. Almost all the 301 tariffs China pays. It’s on China, not those other countries. And it was a crap shoot actually when I invited people to talk about sourcing at Seller Summit. But yes, as long as this holds through for another month, um Jim Keminerer is gonna be talking about sourcing from Vietnam at Seller Summit. I’m using him right now, actually. And I think he’s, I don’t know if he’s gonna be talking about

36:49
a case study that we’re kind of doing together right now. the prices are actually a little lower than China. And you don’t have to pay like the you still have to pay the 15 thing that Trump just issued. uh But it’s cheaper than China and you pay less tariffs than China. The communication and the speed of sourcing is a little slower, but it’s probably worth a look if you’re sourcing from China right now, because Vietnam is so close to China.

37:19
Yeah, literally China just ships all the raw materials and they actually the Chinese vendors, they actually own factories in Vietnam, a lot of them. And so it’s almost like getting the same product for less and avoiding the tariffs. Well, that’ll be an interesting talk. I know the tariffs are always a hot topic at Seller Summit because at least for the past couple of years. Well, just one year. Last year was the most miserable uh time for e-commerce, I want to say, right?

37:47
Especially around the seller summit time. So the seller summit last year was in May, right? And that’s when like the tariffs got to 120 % or something. people that couldn’t get their stuff. Right. So, yeah, this year at least people might be happier. Actually, I think one of my slides on like the keynote last year was I had a friend who paid those 120 % tariffs because he sells bobbleheads to the Warriors and a whole bunch of teams. Yeah, you don’t have a choice. And you don’t have a choice. You have to deliver or you ruin that.

38:16
that relationship. Yeah, right. So this year will be a lot better because the terrorists are way more under control, I think. Yeah. And well, at least for now. Yeah, crossing my fingers that nothing will change in like the next month. For sure. But yeah, yeah. Oh, and yeah, free Amazon PPC. Seller Summit. Oh, yeah. Free managed Amazon PPC for three months if you guys decide to come.

38:44
The amount of emails I’ve received about that. Oh, is that right? Yes, people are, well, I mean, we sold out one of the masterminds right after we announced that. So, um yeah, I think people are very excited. Because that’s what, I don’t know what you said it was worth, because I’ve never paid for It’s probably worth around 10 grand, it was my estimate. I don’t know how much they charge, but like I have used managed services in the past. Yeah. Yeah, and that’s how much, it’s about three grand a month. Yeah.

39:12
Yeah. So good deal pays for your ticket. Yep. So, all right. Yeah. We’ll see in Fort Lauderdale.

39:38
If you want to hang out in person, in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs, and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to SellersSummit.com.

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629: Unglamorous Products That Quietly Generate Serious Revenue

629: Unglamorous Products That Quietly Generate Serious Revenue

In this episode, we’re making the case that boring is actually a strategy. The products we’re covering today have no sex appeal, no social media presence, and almost zero brand loyalty, which means the market is wide open for anyone willing to show up consistently. And it turns out the least exciting shelf in the store is can often be the most profitable one.

What You’ll Learn

  • Why Boring Products Can Be Cash Cows
  • How Tiny Margins Can Add Up To Big Profits
  • Simple Strategies To Find And Scale Boring Stuff

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, we’re making the case that boring is actually a strategy. The products we’re covering today have no sex appeal, no social media presence, and almost zero brand loyalty, which means the market is wide open for anyone willing to show up consistently. And it turns out that the least exciting shelf in the store can often be the most profitable one.

00:24
But before we begin, want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:53
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:22
So if you want in, go over to SellersSummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:32
Welcome to the My Wife, Quitter Job podcast. Today we’re gonna be talking about selling the right products. And what’s funny about this is that I run a class and oftentimes when people come up to me and they’re like, hey Steve, I saw this on TikTok, I wanna sell it. And I’m always like, that’s probably gonna be a bad idea. And if you look around actually, oftentimes it is the boring products. The ones that are never talked about are the ones that are suddenly making a

02:02
You know who this this topic makes me think of every single time? Who? Our friend Dean. Dean or Dean arrived at Seller Summit in 2016. first year with a with a dream. He did. He didn’t have a product to sell. He came to the first Seller Summit. He was he was an older man. I don’t know how old he was. Yeah, he showed up. He said, I want to get into e-commerce.

02:30
We were like, great. We introduced him to a lot of people. He made some great connections. And the funnest thing about him is the next year he showed up at Seller Summit and he was a six figure seller in less than a year selling zip ties. Which I cannot think of. I think zip ties are fun actually, but I cannot think of a more boring product as far as like sexiness than zip ties. And then I think by the next year at Seller Summit, he had, I think left his day job. He had

02:59
purchased a piece of property that he had always dreamed about. That’s correct. Like he had kind of he wanted like this family compound, which I think is so cool. So he had like been able to acquire this land all from zip. And he never I don’t think he ever sold anything else. I think he only sold the zip ties like different sizes. He a million of skews of zip ties. They come in all shapes and sizes. However, he is the person I think and I think about him. He’s almost like my Roman Empire.

03:27
I think about him all the time because I always think if I get back into e-commerce, what would I sell? And I don’t want to sell zip ties, but I want to sell something like zip ties. Yeah. And just to be clear, these weren’t just like regular zip ties. They were like super heavy duty ones. Yeah. Of which actually you can’t find at Home Depot. I was actually at Home Depot the other day for zip ties. Yeah. And they only sell like the kind of flimsy ones and I want the heavy duty ones. Yeah. And so

03:53
It’s so funny because our friends, Paul and Tiffany Avanofsky, who sell clothing, which I never recommend. Yes. But we meet a lot of people who want to sell clothing because clothing is fun. Right. Like it’s and you see all these like boutique owners and they, you know, they’re doing all these fun things. And obviously, Paul and Tiffany have a fantastic business. But, you know, it’s not did not happen overnight. um And we were talking one day, Paul and Tiffany and I and Paul’s like, would you think you’d ever get back into e-commerce? And I said, you know, it’s definitely not off the table.

04:22
And he said, what would you would you sell? Like, what’s your dream thing to sell? And I said, doorknobs. he’s really he’s and it was kind of off the cuff. Right. And he’s like, doorknobs. He’s like, are you like into you know, because there are like a lot of variety of doorknobs. And I was like, no, I’m not like into doorknobs. said, but when I think of a product that everybody has to buy, right, like everybody has to have doorknobs. Right. And they are on the exterior, the interior of your home, on every building, everything. Right. Doorknobs are like a staple. And

04:51
If you actually look at the doorknobs you buy today at Lowe’s or Home Depot, they’re garbage, right? They’re very low quality. um Stuff is plastic, it doesn’t last. I said, feel like doorknobs is an absolutely fantastic product, right? Because the margins have to be great on those. I haven’t done a ton of research, but it’s a boring product that everybody has to use in their lifetime. Interesting. Yeah. I don’t know anything about home improvement or doorknobs, but…

05:21
I know that there’s like a ton of variety out there, right? Yeah. Every time I walk into Home Depot. Yeah. Like you’ve got the levers, you’ve got the knobs, you know, and you’ve got like one of my kids was tired of her sister stealing her stuff. So she got a thumbprint doorknob so she can only open it with her thumb. So, like there’s like lots of variety and things like that. But yeah, I think those types of products, everyone wants the fun, exciting, you know, let’s sell t-shirts, right? Like I know a lot of people want to sell t-shirts like

05:51
looking at my friends that sell clothing, like that seems like an absolute nightmare, right? Like, yeah, we should probably do an episode on like the worst products to sell. Yes. Maybe at a later date. Yeah. And clothing would definitely be one of my number ones. But for some reason, everyone wants to do it when they come into my class. Yeah. And I don’t think they think about the fact that you got to carry like a million skews, different sizes. You miss buy like one size and then you’re stuck with that inventory forever.

06:20
Yes, I don’t want to get too deep into clothing, but the other thing about clothing that makes it stink and we will do a whole episode on this, guys, is that you have to buy clothing when you buy it wholesale in packs. I don’t know if you know this, but like they sell it in packs and each pack has like too small, too medium, too large. So you don’t even really get to control how you buy. um Like Paul and Tiffany joke that Ozempic has been the worst thing for their business because they used to use their customer base used to be like large, extra large and double X. oh

06:48
And everyone went on Ozempic and now everybody’s small, medium and large. they like a lot of boutique owners got stuck with like larger size inventory because people aren’t buying it anymore. But like so you have to buy these packs where the wholesaler dictates the sizes you get. Tiffany cannot go and say, I need 50 pairs of size zero jeans. She has to buy a pack of two zeros, two smalls, three. You know, it’s like anyway, it’s a mess. So doorknobs, doorknobs are the way to go. So I was researching boring products.

07:17
And one that really caught my eye was senior aid products. And the only reason I was kind of looking at this is because, my, mom’s getting up there and she lives right down the street. She’s in great health and everything, but there are some things that she can’t really do anymore, like Lyft or she’s not as flexible. And then I found this site that I just kind of did some research. They do multi-millions, but the site literally looks like it was designed in like the nineties.

07:45
horrible website, but I know they’re doing well. And you can’t really find these products in regular stores. We’re talking about em like these really, as an example, these really long shoe horns so you don’t have to bend down. They don’t sell stuff like that. So that’s like a boring product or set of products I should say, like walkers and whatnot. Although walkers are probably more common, but there’s this whole niche because everyone’s getting older for the baby boomer stage.

08:15
And it’s it’s untapped. Yeah. The um the one I always think about because my dad, got one for my dad as a joke when you’re not as really as a joke. He used it all the time. He loved it. But the grabber. Yes, the grabber. Yeah, the grabber. Like that’s now that’s a little more popular, but it still fits into that like boring product. um Like for me, like I one of my kids got one like in like a detective kit one time. And I used to use that thing all the time to get stuff that fell behind the washer and dryer. Oh, like the sock. But.

08:43
You’re right. Those types of products. I saw someone post on Facebook the other day about wanting to have a bar installed in their shower for their parent. But that bar is a product. Think about that. That’s literally just a piece of metal that’s bent onto it. So the risk of it being defective, the defectiveness comes in the installer, not the product itself because it’s metal. um

09:11
All those types of products, to me those are just like the cash cows, right? And especially with society, in general we’re aging older, there’s less younger people, there’s more older people. I feel like that market is just gonna continue to grow. Have you ever wondered what your business is actually worth? Well, I’ve worked with Quiet Lake Brokerage for over a decade, and one thing that I learned over the years is that most sellers wait way too long to find out the answer to that question.

09:39
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10:09
Now getting a valuation isn’t really about the number. It’s about understanding what makes your business valuable to someone else and what’s currently killing that value. And that information is worth having whether you’re selling next month or in five years. Now I’ve trusted Quiet Light with my own businesses and if you’re building something you might want to exit someday, talk to them right now. Find out what needs fixing while you still have time to fix it and go over to quietlight.com for a free valuation.

10:36
And we’re quickly creeping up on that market. Maybe not quite yet. Listen, buy me a grabber. Send me one. I don’t know where it happened to our old one. I’ll take it. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say before we go on to your next boring product, I just want to first address like all the trending products. And in general, like if you see something on TikTok or if you see something hot, it might look really hot and you might want to jump on. But the fact that you’re seeing on TikTok already.

11:03
means that it’s probably already too saturated. Like almost every Chinese supplier’s probably jumped on it by then. And so really that’s not the best way to find products to sell. yeah, I totally agree with that. Like fidget spinners actually, just since we’re on this topic. Nick Shackelford, you can look in the archives, I interviewed him, and how he first got his start actually was he was making multi-millions of dollars selling fidget spinners.

11:30
My cousin sold fidget spinners and did not make multi-millions, but supported himself for many years selling fidget spinners. Yeah. And I think the problem is, is let’s say you get lucky and you make some money. Yeah. Right. You’re like, OK, let’s scale this sucker. So then all of sudden you’re buying a huge container of this stuff. And then the trend just like suddenly dies. And then you’re stuck with all this inventory. And that’s exactly what happened to Nick. Yeah. Similar to one of our colleagues, when remember when face masks were huge during the pandemic?

12:00
He actually bought like a couple of containers of the stuff and then it COVID was over and you know, I don’t know what he did with those two containers of stuff, but whether he filed for bankruptcy or whatnot. So that is the danger. Yeah. So actually this just reminded me of the totally different product that so my cousin sold fidget spinners, my uncle, his father. So my uncle was very entrepreneurial, but like not in a

12:26
This is the thing. I think what happens is you listen to podcasts, you go to events, you hear it people like Nick Schalkleford. Right now, Nick Schalkleford has a wildly successful, I think when I heard him speak this summer, he said it was like 60 million dollars a year. Yes. THC based product. Correct. THC based products are always joking. He’s a drug dealer. But yes, he’s a drug dealer. I actually saw not that product, but like a competitor to him um literally in Winn-Dixie a couple of weeks ago. Like, yes, it’s hit mainstream.

12:55
My nephew is currently, as we speak, on a plane, Zach, Seller Summit videographer, he’s on a plane to North Carolina to open up, he works for a company called Chronic Guru, they sell THC and CBD products. He’s on his way to North Carolina right now to do a grand opening for another one of their physical locations, like blowing up. But the problem is, like,

13:15
people like Nick, people like Chronic Guru have really set themselves apart. Chronic Guru, one of the things, well one, they hired my nephew, so they’re putting out amazing content, right? Their social content is 10 out of 10. Two, they open physical locations that are bars that sell THC drinks, right? No one else is doing that. So they took an angle on it. So they took a popular product and took an angle that no one was doing. But there’s a million people doing this, right? They’re just not doing it well.

13:43
You know, that’s the problem with the popular stuff. My cousin who did the fidget spinners, his dad, and this is I want to say probably 20 to 25 years ago, got into selling scrubs like nursing scrubs. Oh, yes. Right. So and the thing about so we say don’t sell clothing. The thing about scrubs is they only come in like three sizes, right? Because they’re big. Like, you know, you’re not buying scrubs. And nowadays, scrubs have changed. But like when he got in this, it was a little bit different. So he started selling scrubs. And this is when the Internet was like

14:11
more of an eBay, know, Amazon wasn’t a thing, so he was selling scrubs on eBay. Well then he had the idea. I mean, this is like, this is the type of stuff though that I feel like this is how you make it, right? He’s like, what if I buy a school bus, right? And I turn the school bus into a shop and I go to nursing schools, dental schools, tech schools, like all these, you know, these health colleges where you go for like six months and you get like a nursing tech degree or a vet tech, they all have to wear scrubs, one to school and two,

14:41
to their work when they get a job. He would pull that bus up to the parking lot with permission, open it up and sell scrubs during the lunch hour. Literally supported their family for probably 10 years. I mean, like once again, boring product, right? But he tried to capitalize on the boring product. And because he was selling them on eBay as well as in person, he got the feedback in person of people would coming into the school bus to buy the scrubs and saying like,

15:08
I’d really like, I’m going to go into pediatrics. Do you have any bright yellow or bright, like fun colors? then he learned the trends. He started carrying the stuff that people were requesting, but did this very successfully for probably 10 to 12 years. Once again, super boring product. Exactly. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store,

15:36
I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show.

16:07
One of our friends, Chad Rubin, I’m sure if you guys are in Amazon circles, you’ve probably heard of him. He runs a company now called Prophecy, which is an Amazon pricing tool. But he actually made most of his money selling filters, vacuum filters and air filters, which is just about as boring as it gets. Like no one’s going to do like an unboxing of an air filter, right? Speaking of air filters, this is a great product because…

16:33
My air conditioner, I have to buy the dumb filters from the air conditioning company because they’re specialized. It’s like $200 for four filters. Oh, I know. It’s ridiculous. You cannot tell me that that filter, one filter is $50. So how much do think that filter costs to manufacture? Even if it’s like the HEPA amazing, a dollar or two tops. The biggest cost in that is the size because they’re house air. So they’re big. But vacuum cleaner filters are literally this big. Yes. Tiny to ship.

17:04
Stupid, boring. I have to get filters. Actually, everyone has to get filters for their house, right? Yes. But I don’t shop around. Like once I’ve bought one, I just keep buying the same one or I just buy a bunch from the same company. And it’s really sticky and that’s why it works. So this is a good, actually, this gave me a great idea to test your product, like to kind of run through the mental test. If your product could be on subscribe and save, that might be a great, boring product.

17:33
Yeah. You know, like if you’re because you’re like because I’m the same way, like there’s a couple of things that I just want delivered to my house every single month or every two months. I don’t want to think about it. Like, you know, I did I shop around probably initially. Right. Like, but also did it fit my car or whatever? Like, um you know, not fit my car, fit my air conditioner, fit my vacuum. And then I so I have mop heads on subscribe and save because I have that mop that like it’s it’s the bucket. But then the other side of the bucket is the spinner.

18:02
So it like flings the water out. So the mop heads are interchangeable. And because I’ve had so much construction in my house, you mop like once or twice up the construction dust, the mop heads like dead. Right. And I also have pets. So even if I didn’t have the construction, I would probably want a new mop head probably once a month or once every two months. So I literally have these things unsubscribe and save. Once again, they’re like the stringy mop. They come in a three pack. They’re shrink wrap. They’re literally like this big. I don’t know what they cost. I don’t care what they cost. They fit my mop. And so

18:32
I hit subscribe, I will never unsubscribe from them. I will buy another mop before I stop getting that subscription. Yeah, there’s actually a number of things in my house that are like that where I actually don’t even care about the brand. Yeah. I literally just go and I find the cheapest version that’s compatible with whatever I’m using and then I just buy it forever. Yeah. So your example with the scrubs brought me to another example that I found through my research, which was this dude.

18:59
who literally just had like a supply of like hard hats and safety goggles. And you know, those are really common items, right? But what he did is he actually drove around, and this was in Indiana, he drove around to different construction sites and then just literally talked to the guys and said, hey, how much are you paying for this stuff? And then he just undercut them in price and said, hey, I will supply you with all this stuff. And the fact that he went around door to door and actually established relationships with the

19:28
you know, the foreman and everything. That’s how he got his business. And I think what most people don’t realize is that all you need is like a handful of these customers who are going to be buying from you on a repeat basis. And that’s enough to easily support yourself and perhaps build a multi-million dollar company. So that guy, he started out doing that and now he makes tens of millions of dollars, supplying all this stuff to all these construction companies in Indiana. And now he’s expanding to a whole bunch of different States.

19:56
Yeah, and I’m sure my uncle had he wanted to grow this to multi areas, he was really content to just drive around the Orlando area. But it got to the point where the schools expected him to, because a lot of these schools are six week and eight week programs, especially for the techs day. So for the schools, was like, this is how we can ensure that our students are following, they’re wearing the scrubs, they’re wearing the right stuff, they’re ready to get hired.

20:22
Like they were like, are you coming? Are you coming this Tuesday? Like they were like, I mean, isn’t it nice to have someone chasing you to sell your products, right? Like, are you gonna be here? You know, once he had those relationships and then of course all these schools, all the administrators, they all know each other. So it’s like, people would find out that like, oh, they’re going to this, you know, technical college. Like, you come to our college? Can you get us in the calendar, right? Like you don’t even have to really advertise yourself once you get in the process.

20:51
I mean, there’s something to be said about actually going in in person and talking to someone. I, for some reason, like people who signed up for my class these days, and I’m kind of generalizing here, but they all want to do something on the download, like just throw some money at an ad and then just get sales and never have to talk to anyone. Never have to do anything, just ship products. But I feel like the majority of people are like that. So if you’re actually willing to go around and talk to people,

21:19
And again, word of mouth is something that is not talked about enough, just even in e-commerce, right? And so if you’re willing to build these relationships, like I said, all you need is a couple of these subscription guys to make a living. And word of mouth will spread after that. In fact, that is when we were talking about like the senior aid niche, that’s exactly how they got started also. So I think the story, their backstory was they were physical therapists and they were helping out like the elderly and they couldn’t find any of these products.

21:49
So they found them or they had them made and then they just used them in their own as part of their own job in the beginning. And then people started asking about it. And that’s when they started, you know, buying in bulk and supplying and they started out, you know, within their own area at first. And that expanded via word of mouth. Yeah. So this is going to sound absolutely crazy, but I’m staring at a product in my office right now that I was like, ooh, this is a really important product, but it has a problem. Okay. So across from me, I won’t get up and get it. I have a Pilates ball.

22:19
Pilates, however you say it. And it’s a rubber ball that’s like this, know, space the size of a basketball and you use it for Pilates work. And I’m like, that’s a super boring product. It came in this like shrink, to get that thing blown up and open was such a pain in the butt. But like once again, it fits all the criteria, right? Easy to ship, small, lightweight, all doesn’t take up a lot of space. If you sell on Amazon, it’s small in the, you know, container sort of thing. The problem is every influencer in the world does Pilates.

22:47
Right, so they all want to talk about the ball, right? They all want to, you know, so there’s a, I mean, when I went to buy this ball, there were literally, I don’t even know how many listings there were on Amazon. So what did I do? I looked for the one with the price and reviews, right? I was like, oh, 27,000 reviews, 4.7 stars, that’s the one I’m buying. Does it have a color I like? Sure. clearly, like, no, there was no brand loyalty, no, it was all about price and like, reliability, basically, right? So.

23:17
Any product that you think is like in the influencer market, which is like any fit, because I also have one of those foam rollers, right? And it’s like, once again, every influencer is doing the foam roller at the gym, right? Like, and once again, probably an easy product to sell super cheap to manufacture, all that stuff. You want to find the products where the influencers aren’t going to be talking about you. So who isn’t an influencer? An old person. Who isn’t an influencer? Yes. person. Who isn’t an influencer? A plumber. Right? Like.

23:46
Like those are the products where you’re like, this isn’t going to take over. And I hate to say like you want to find a product that’s not going to go viral on TikTok, but you kind of do because the virality is up and then it’s a big crash and you have a carton full of foam rollers that you can’t get rid of because everyone else is undercutting you on price, especially the Chinese sellers. I would almost argue that if you see an influencer pushing something anywhere on TikTok, that’s going to be a really hard thing to sell. Yeah. In general. Yeah. And

24:16
it’s, for me at least, there’s like an ego component to it. Like most people want to sell the sexy products. Like I’m an engineer or former engineer, I actually want to go back to work right now work in tech because AI is sexy. But if you look at the level of competition across all the AI companies, it’s cutthroat. Whereas if you’re this other guy, like maybe Intuit and Turbo Tax, I’m thinking like that’s like a boring product that just mints money every single year.

24:45
So another, this is, this has got a little more competition. So I’m not saying to go into this, but I think it’s another fit is um reading glasses as I’m. Yes, actually there is an acquaintance and remember I bought those for you. Yes. They were part of a key chain. So there’s just reading. I still have them. They’re for people like me who refuse to wear reading glasses, but need them at a restaurant or something.

25:13
Yes, because your arm isn’t long enough to hold the menu anymore here. Yes, exactly. Well, these days I actually take a photo on my phone and then pitch to Zoom. But there are these reading glasses on a key chain. It’s actually a former student uh selling those. And again, that’s that’s like a spin on a on a product that affects like anyone over the age of 40. Yes. So.

25:37
our friend Chris Cody, who we were just talking about him before we started recording. He bought an eyeglass company a couple years ago. And the interesting thing for him is he’s trying to differentiate himself. I think that’s a good, I think it’s a good, I don’t say it wouldn’t say it’s saturated, I probably wouldn’t do it today, but he’s trying to figure out the angles, right? Like how do you find something that’s gonna set him apart? So one of the things that he did was he targets people, what this is gonna sound crazy, with fat heads.

26:08
Right. Interesting. Because wide heads. Yes. So basically like reading glasses. Right. They all come in basically the same size. Right. Like this part of glasses. I mean, these are flexible, obviously. So if your head is smaller or larger, you know, it’ll it’ll fit on your head most comfortably. But there are people who have larger than normal heads. And this isn’t like a small group of the population. This is a pretty big segment of people. Right. So he has created a line of eyewear.

26:34
for people that have wider heads. I call them fat heads, Kim and I, because I used to do his email. So we used to joke. I’m like, do you want the fat head segment of people? uh so basically, because I will say, like as someone who wears glasses a lot of the time, like I don’t like stuff pushing up against my temples. Like it’s uncomfortable. So if you have a larger sized head and you just go buy a pair of reading glasses at Target or CVS, they’re probably going to be uncomfortable for you. So he has created a

27:01
standard product that’s better, right, for a certain group of people. And it’s enough people to keep you in business, right? There’s enough fat heads to keep you You know what this reminds me of? You know those gigantic sunglasses? I’m picturing his reading glasses like that big. But yeah, that’s a good niche. And that’s easily like a seven figure niche right there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s those types of things that I think like people

27:31
Like, who’s ever going to be like, yeah, let’s go after the large headed community. Right. Like, it’s not, you know, a thing. So that’s just like Brandon Eley’s product. Yes. Friend of ours. sells oversized shoes. Yeah. Like basically for people like Shaq. Yeah. And my brother. And your brother. Right. Yeah. I think his sizes start at like 16 and go all way up to like 20 something. Yeah. 23 or 24. Because you can’t find those sizes in stores. And so.

27:59
And he’s carved out, he’s been in business for like 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. Really long time. um Yeah, that’s that’s another I mean, the same thing, though, like a small niche of people. But once again, what does everybody have to have shoes? Right. Right. I think it’s that component of like, what are what are certain things that everybody has to buy? And also what’s great about shoes is they wear out like.

28:24
Most people, they’re wearing shoes like every, if you have a pair of shoes that you wear regularly, right, like once every day or five times a week, they’re gonna last you maybe a year or two. And then even if they’re great shoes, like if you’re wearing them all the time, they’re not gonna be, you know. I have another really interesting one. Oh you do? Okay, I’ll let you go.

28:46
OK, this is one that I feel like is not doesn’t fit as much of the criteria. I always like to sell small products, right? Like I want I sold jewelry. I like the tiniest things possible. But this is one that I do feel like is a pretty boring product is mailboxes. Yes, actually. Right. Like, yeah, I like that. Yeah. Mailboxes because every most people have mailbox. Right. Like, I mean.

29:09
And so and most people at some point, I mean, my mailbox, my one of my kids checked the mail. They’re like, that mailbox is hanging on for dear life. My mailbox is really old and it’s literally like you open the door and the thing goes down and then you close the door. Like it’s just it’s barely attached to the thing. It’s rusted out. Like I’m like, I need a new mailbox. Like once again, boring, easy. Yeah, everyone has to buy one and they don’t last forever. So one of I don’t know if I ever told you the story, but

29:38
my cousin-in-law, he’s like really into cars. And he was on the forums one day and he likes Jeeps. And he discovered that everyone was just complaining about like the tweeters going out. And these are like old school like Wranglers and Cherokees. He did some off-roading also. And so all he did is he just sourced some of these tweeters from China, pennies on the dollar. And the markups, if you take it back to the dealer, are super high.

30:05
Right. So he just made it like 50 % off the dealer, which was still like a 10 X profit. And he went back on those forums. He said, Oh yeah, the fix for this is easy. This is what I did. You can pick up these kits right here. And it, he pointed to his own site, of course. And for like the next, I want to say five years, that product was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Yeah. Something stupid. Again, no one’s ever going to like advertise these things. You’re never going to see it on tick tock, but

30:35
It’s like a silent product that just made a ton of money. Yeah. So I have one that is not, this is not a good product anymore, for, but the category is correct because Ring Camera has ruined this product. um However, my former brother-in-law, when he was in college, he was looking for ways to earn money. And so he went and bought, like wholesale, the um people, right, that goes in your door. And this is of course like in the,

31:04
I would say like late 80s, early 90s. This is a long time ago. And he bought these peepholes for like, I don’t remember what he sold them for. Like he bought them for like two or three dollars, right? And he would just go around his college town and he would knock on people’s doors, right? That didn’t have peepholes. And they would like answer the door. And he was when they’d answer the door, he’d say, Hi, my name is so and so. How did you know that you should answer the door for me? Oh, And he’s and he’s like, for twenty dollars, I can install this in your front door in five minutes.

31:33
So he would have the drill bit, everything you needed, they’re super easy to install. So he basically supported himself in college selling peepholes. Amazing. Right, but once again, obviously now with the ring camera, that’s not as relevant anymore. I’m sure young people are like, what’s a peephole? But same thing, once again, super boring, great.

31:56
found a great ankle for a boring product, right? Like also knocking on doors, interacting with customers. So that’s a whole nother thing. you know, anything like that. mean, like he told me that like story like 25 years ago and I was like, that is the greatest idea I’ve ever heard. Like that is so smart. You know, there’s this trend with a lot of these products. So I found this one guy who makes at his peak one hundred and nineteen million dollars a year selling ink and toner.

32:24
Yeah, right. Because it’s really expensive. But this guy in his college dorm room, he was like, I’m not paying for those refills. And what he ended up doing was, you know, he would just drill into the existing toner cartridge and just refill the toner put it back in. And what he ended up doing, he’s like, okay, maybe this is like a business. So he actually went around to first his like friends, uh place of employment. And he actually found the boss and was like, hey, how much are you spending on toner? I can fill these for you at like,

32:54
fraction of the cost. And then it just spread from there. But it started because he just kind of went to a business and said, hey, you know, I can have your toner costs. Yeah, it’s amazing how many things that if you’re just willing to do a little bit of legwork, you know, like you’re just like the and I mean, I get the anonymous selling. Like, I understand why that’s appealing to people. But if if you can create a business where you’re not having to run.

33:21
ads and drive a significant amount of your revenue from ads? I think about this, em obviously I live in a construction world. Dickie’s pants are the pants for most people who work in blue collar type jobs. They’re one of the staple brands. There’s other brands too, but they’re one of the main brands.

33:46
um And they sell blue pants and black pants or something like that, right? Like they have like a very limited, maybe they sell khaki too, but like very limited selection, very specific, very durable pants, right? Like they’re made to stand up to like construction level work. But like, and I know they do run ads and things like that, but it’s like they set themselves apart as like, if you work in construction, you need to wear our pants, right? So like when you get it.

34:11
It is the same thing with like steel-toed boots, right? There’s a couple like major brands and it’s like I have a son that’s getting ready to go into a trade and so it’s like he’s going to buy the brand that everybody in his trade is using, right? Like he is going to buy the Dickie’s pants, the steel-toed boots, like he’s going to have those products because that’s the industry standard.

34:32
But they didn’t get there from ads. They got there from going to the construction sites like your friend and like, hey, you know, what hard hat do you want to wear? Like, what’s the pros and cons? Like, what do you need? You know, and then they become like I’m sure Dickies is like a multimillion, billion dollar company at this point, you know. That actually I just thought of our good friend, Brett Haney. Yes, I was thinking about him earlier. He sells microfiber towels. Yeah.

34:58
Boring as, no offense, Brett, if you’re listening to this. I don’t know if you listen to the podcast anymore. Your microfiber’s the best. Boring as hell, right? Yeah. I mean, it’s literally just like towels. Yeah. And so I know he does very well. Yes. Right? I don’t know how he, I should have him on the pod actually. I don’t really know how he got started with that, but I suspect that it was a similar thing. He got these towels. He found some businesses that needed them and he’s probably like the supplier for many businesses today.

35:24
And, I think I had dinner with him several years ago. And when we were having dinner, were he was like, should I get on TikTok? Should I do it was like TikTok was just starting to like really be a thing. And we started talking about like who he sells to in like one of his big clients are cleaning companies. I believe it. Yeah. Yeah. But like, it’s the same thing, right? Like, well, what brand what brand of rags do you use? Right. Well, we use this brand. So then.

35:47
the next person, so say you work for a cleaning company and then you leave and you start your own cleaning company, right? So, well, we’ll use this for this, why would we switch, right? If you like it, you make a good product, once again, those cloths do not last forever. I have some, his cloths are great, but in general, if you’re using a cloth to clean something all the time, eventually it is not a usable cloth anymore. I think the important thing is, for a lot of these products, you buy them once and you don’t really care, you just want…

36:15
to solve your problem, you just end up buying the same thing forever. there’s a lot of product. I mean, you just have to sit down and think about the stuff that you use all the time. And I’m sure you can find a ton of things that fall into this category. Yeah, walk through your own house. Like, what are you using on a regular basis? another, there’s so many, and I guess I spend far too much time in Home Depot, but I feel like pretty much 90 % of what’s sold in Home Depot or Lowe’s is like one of these products, right? Now, obviously there are like,

36:44
big manufacturer brands that own a lot of the market share. But there are products in that that are not completely overtaken by a standard. It’s funny because I was talking to, actually, Eamon, his wife, Shanae, we were talking and one of Eamon’s, this is not one of his goals, so I don’t want to misstate this, but he wants to create some sort of drywall product.

37:09
that is not as horrible as drywall is. And if you’ve ever worked with drywall or had drywall replaced in your home, you know it is the messiest, worst thing, right? It’s like you have to cut a piece that literally puts dust over every square inch of your house. And then to get it to install, you’ve got to tape it, mud it, sand it. And if you even walk into it, like when it’s not installed, you’ll knock the corner off of it it’s unusable. Like it’s a terrible product.

37:37
Right. But there are like two drywall brands. Right. So like it’s like I want to come up with a better version of drywall. I’m like, please, I will buy that. Like no questions asked. And I’m sure every contractor is like, yes, come up with a better version of drywall. Right. Like, yeah, this is it’s you know, what we currently have is terrible. So like, you know, but once again, it’s product that every single every single building has drywall. Right. Like today, at least not not not back in the day, but, know, in 2025, for sure.

38:05
So here’s another company that I found like doing my research. It started with this dude who was just buying stuff off of Craigslist computers and stuff and then breaking them apart and selling them in pieces. And then uh that evolved into him just like buying TVs that were broken or just like pallets of junk. Like there’s like Goodwill or I know about Goodwill, but like these places they just sell you broken stuff. And if you’re willing to go out and repair it and whatever, know, pennies on the dollar.

38:35
So what he discovered was with TVs and appliances, there’s a lot of demand for people wanting to fix their own thing. Like for example, like when my dishwasher broke, I didn’t want to buy a new dishwasher. I actually looked for that specific part. So what he started doing was breaking apart all these, he started with TV sets and he found that he could sell like a piece, like a power board for the TV set for like one third of the cost of the entire TV. And people didn’t want to buy the TV, right?

39:05
They didn’t want to buy a working TV. They just wanted that one part. And so that he created a it’s an eight figure business now doing exactly that. And he covers a wide variety of TVs and appliances mainly. Yeah. OK. I want to I want to wrap this uh this session up with my an example from my brother. OK. Because I think this might be one of the most ingenious, boring products. And this is unfortunately not a scalable thing, but it just shows you there’s opportunity everywhere.

39:34
uh So my brother and I, don’t know if, I think I’ve talked about this, we used to sell on eBay. We used to be eBay power sellers, not with each other, but like separately we would do eBay. And he was much, he’s very, he’s a sound engineer, so he would always, like same thing like you’re saying, he would buy broken TVs, he’d sell parts, just if you know, when you see him at yard sales or know, Goodwill, things like that, not at scale. So he was on his way to a wedding and he…

40:01
He stopped at a yard sale because, know, Saturdays, that’s the day you yard sale. And he walked into this garage and the person had passed away. So the wife was selling everything. And honestly, if you’re a yard sale, this is these are the types of yard sales where the spouse is selling off stuff and they don’t know the value of what they’re because they just want to like it. not like sentimental stuff. It’s like, oh, this was his collection of X, Y, Z. Right. So this guy’s job was he repaired electronics. was electronics repairman.

40:29
of older electronic products. So in his garage, he had, I would say probably 10,000 manuals, repair manuals, for products that aren’t manufactured anymore. Right, so old stereos, old record players, vintage stuff that people love and wanna have, right, like classic collector items. And also things that you cannot find on the internet, right? Like nowadays, if you buy a dishwasher, your manual’s on the internet, right? But if you have a record player from 1960, that manual is nowhere to be found.

40:59
So my brother bought the entire garage from this lady for $3,000. And um he’s like, I have to get to a wedding. Can I come pick up the garage? Can I get a new hall and come? Because he literally bought every single, and it was the manuals and also electronics, whatever. So he basically piecemealed all the electronics. And he’s like, what am I going to do with these thousands of manuals? So he had the idea to scan them and create PDFs for every manual. And he sold those manuals on eBay for $3,000.

41:28
years, right? Because it because if you had the product and you needed it repaired and you didn’t have the manual, you could not access that manual anywhere. Like he owned all of this. Right. Basically, I don’t know how many thousands of dollars he made, but I think he sold manuals for probably five to seven years on eBay. I’m just. Yeah. So it’s like. But once again, it’s like your friend with the electronics finding these niche.

41:54
items, right? These things that like if someone, if there’s a demand, people will pay, one, they’ll pay a lot of money, right? Like if you don’t, and that’s the thing, like if you have a part to have something that you need, another one of my family members sold parts to old tools. So if you had an old saw, they don’t manufacture it anymore, he would buy old tools that once again, yard sales, estate sales, and he would just catalog all the parts. He had a whole store of antique parts, right? Supported himself and his wife for probably 25 years selling old parts.

42:24
Once again, these are not like multi-billion dollar businesses, but they are businesses that will support you that you can retire with. um And you’re actually providing a really great service to people. that one that I, that example, they make eight figures, so tens of millions. So it doesn’t have to be a hobby either. Like you can expand this however you want. But yeah, easily at a minimum, they can easily support yourself. Yeah. Anyway, I hope.

42:50
I’m excited. I’m going to go find a boring product. That’s I was going to say. I hope after listening to this, you guys are inspired because stop chasing the trendy stuff. Yeah. By the time it’s trendy, that ship is sailed. But with boring products, what I like about them is that one, people are probably not going to knock you off because they’re boring. Right. And two, they might not even know you exist. That’s exactly they don’t know you exist. So there’s no no fear of getting knocked off.

43:17
Yes, and actually those are like the best businesses for me, like the ones that no one knows about, but just quietly make money because you’re under the radar. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’ve been chasing the latest trendy products, maybe you switch gears and try to sell something that might not be sexy, but something everyone needs. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 629. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com.

43:45
If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs, and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to SellersSummit.com.

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628: The Amazon Listing Mistakes That Are Killing Your Conversions (And How to Fix Them) With Daniela Bolzmann

628: The Amazon Listing Mistakes That Are Killing Your Conversions (And How to Fix Them) With Daniela Bolzmann

In this episode, I sit down with Daniela Boltzmann, founder of Mindful Goods, to talk about what actually separates high-converting Amazon listings from the ones that quietly bleed sales.

We dig into why repurposing your Shopify creative on Amazon is one of the most common and costly mistakes sellers make, and walk through the exact frameworks Daniela uses to optimize main images, titles, and A+ content for seven and eight-figure brands.

What You’ll Learn

  • Why repurposing your Shopify creative on Amazon is silently killing your conversions
  • How to optimize your main images, titles, and A+ content the way seven and eight-figure brands do it
  • What actually separates a high-converting Amazon listing from one that quietly bleeds sales

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, I sit down with Daniela Boltzman, founder of Mindful Goods, to talk about what actually separates high converting Amazon listings from the ones that quietly bleed sales. We dig into why repurposing your Shopify creative on Amazon is one of the most common and costly mistakes that sellers make and walk through the exact frameworks Daniela uses to optimize main images, titles, and A-plus content for seven and eight figure brands.

00:29
But before we begin, want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:58
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:27
So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:38
Welcome to the My Wife Quarter job podcast. Today I’m excited to have Daniela Boltzman on the show. Now, Daniela was introduced to me by a good friend, Ritu Java, and Daniela is the founder of mindfulgoods.co where she helps Amazon sellers with Amazon listing optimization and branding. And her female led agency has had their work featured in many case studies by Amazon and they provide a done for you service that makes your products stand out and sell.

02:07
She’s also spoken at many events, including Amazon Accelerate. And as we all know, Amazon is getting more more competitive every year. So today I invited Daniela to come on the show to talk about how to make your Amazon listing stand out in a sea of competition. And with that, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you for having me. My favorite topic. I’m excited to be here. I thought we were going to talk about tennis, actually, but.

02:35
Second favorite topic. Actually, I’ve been getting into paddle now. Do you play paddle? No, what is that? It’s Padel. Some people say Padel. It’s of like, what is it that they play in the States? Pickleball. it’s with glass. It’s like pickleball, but with glass walls behind you. So it’s like, yeah, it’s really, really fun. It started in Mexico, spread to Europe. It’s more popular than pickleball in Europe.

03:03
And it’s a lot of fun. And I love tennis. I play tennis like three times a week, but I’m really into paddle as well. Okay, I can’t get into pickleball as much because it’s not as much of a workout for me, which is why I like tennis the best. That makes sense. All right, Daniels, for those of the people listening who do not know who you are, how did you get started with e commerce? And what’s the backstory? Why Amazon? Oh, it’s a great story. um

03:29
I’ll try not to bore everyone, but my background is in marketing and tech. I had a tech business before this and I exited that business and realized that I was a burnt out founder. And uh I had 10 years of marketing experience under my belt at that point, but I was more of a Jill of all trades. I could pick up things really quick. ah I could do a little bit of coding. I could do a lot of everything.

03:57
And I really wanted to specialize in one area and e-commerce had always been very interesting to me. um So when I had kind of dabbled, I was trying to decide between focusing on D to C or focusing on Amazon. Around that time, Amazon had acquired Whole Foods and I was fortunate enough to have a family business um that was in CPG. And so I had asked my aunt if I could.

04:22
learn Amazon, you know, with some of their products. And she gave me the go ahead. Soon as I did that, I realized what a big learning curve it was. And I made it my goal to start helping other founders to do that. And at the beginning, I just said, you know what, I’m a marketer, I will learn this stuff, but I’m going to learn it alongside you. So I did that. And after the first couple of years, I realized that I was pulling my hair out. And there were so many pieces of this that

04:50
I was never going to be an expert at everything. And so when I did some reflection, I looked back and I said, you know what, of all the brands that we’ve worked with thus far, of all the things that we’ve done for these brands, the piece that brings me the most joy and that becomes my zone of genius is really the creatives, the SEO, and that’s on PDP and storefront. So it was just this one specific lane that I decided to double down on and

05:18
which was a very difficult decision at the time, right? Because I had started a full service agency. had retainer clients paying me five to 10K each per month. So it was a pretty healthy way to live. And I was basically saying, I want to forego that safety to just focus on projects and project-based work to help more brands, right? A little bit more volume. And um I didn’t pull the trigger right away.

05:47
It was like right before COVID, I was deciding if I was going to do this. And there was a lot of brands coming to us that really wanted to work with us, but they couldn’t afford retainers. So I said, why don’t we just work on your creatives and help you get your listing up so you can generate some cash flow. And then you guys can start your ads and see how things go. And then you can level up over time. And so we did that with a few brands. COVID hits. Our clients that are on retainers need to get out of their retainers, understandably, to help manage their cash.

06:15
We let all of them out of retainers. We flipped our website and just said that we’re now just doing creative projects because what I saw was all of the retail shops closing their doors. And now all of these brands need to start selling on Amazon. so overnight we had uh lost all of our business and within 30 days we had tripled our business. So we just never went back to the old model and that’s still what we do today. And we’re just fortunate enough to do it with ah

06:44
now mostly seven and eight figure brands that are a little bit further along, but equally, you’d be equally surprised at the plateaus that they hit and how their content can go stale. So even the biggest brands in the world have this problem. So you’re completely project-based now. So that implies there’s not that recurring revenue or do they just keep coming back for more? that We do have brands that repeat. We do now have

07:12
larger clients that do enter into retainers, but our retainers are by invite only. So if we have a good experience with a brand and they have a catalog big enough to support us working together for, you know, at least six to 12 months, we’ll have that discussion and and we’ll work with them if it’s the right fit. Okay, love it. Yeah. So for everyone listening out there, I know a large percentage of them are are on Amazon. And so what I want to start with

07:42
is by just kind of addressing some of the common mistakes that you see. uh I know that you’ve worked with large brands and I know you’ve worked with smaller brands as well. what are some of like the mistakes that you see almost everyone making, whether they’re big or small? Pretty much across the board, the number one thing that I see is a copy paste approach. Because a lot of times you invest some money initially to get some creatives for your Instagram that you then use on your Shopify that you then try to repurpose for your Amazon.

08:12
Whereas when someone goes to your Shopify site, you pretty much have their undivided attention for a certain set of time, right? There’s not a whole bunch of advertising distracting them. And so ah you would think you could take the same creative and bring it over to Amazon. should suffice, but it doesn’t. We need to be thinking through how we can get their attention and keep their attention all the way down the page with all of these different distractions that are going on on Amazon in terms of your competitors advertising on your page. And so

08:41
It’s just a different lens, a different strategy that you need to think through. But that’s probably the most common mistake that I see. And it is still happening with the largest brands. And I’ll tell you, the problem that is happening on the large side of brands, and I mean, like we’re working with some of the biggest ones in the world right now, and they have full e-comm teams, right? Full budgets, full production, full in-house teams that can do this stuff. But there’s a little bit of a learning curve associated with it.

09:09
There’s very few team members in-house that are completely dedicated to Amazon. Amazon is still considered the ugly stepchild. There’s not a huge dedicated budget thrown at a launch strategy for Amazon, a growth strategy for Amazon. uh Usually all the focus and a majority of the budget is going to the D2C side. And so what we are focused when we’re working with brands like that is trying to make those team members the internal champions, right?

09:38
to show them wins as quickly as possible. We want to show their teams what can happen if we just put a little bit more attention in the right direction on Amazon, a little bit more attention with intention, you know? Have you ever wondered what your business is actually worth? Well, I’ve worked with Quiet Lake Brokerage for over a decade. And one thing that I learned over the years is that most sellers wait way too long to find out the answer to that question. When I sold one of my businesses through them,

10:06
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10:35
isn’t really about the number. It’s about understanding what makes your business valuable to someone else and what’s currently killing that value. And that information is worth having whether you’re selling next month or in five years. Now I’ve trusted Quiet Light with my own businesses and if you’re building something you might want to exit someday, talk to them right now. Find out what needs fixing while you still have time to fix it and go over to quietlight.com for a free valuation.

11:01
That’s kind of our whole goal is working alongside those teams to make their process easier, make it so that they can do these launches easier, make sure they’re using the content in the right way, and kind of streamline that process for them going forward. Walk me through an example of something, a creative that you use on Shopify that would not work on Amazon. So when you’re looking at a Shopify page, you’re typically looking at like, let’s say like a flat lay. um might have, let’s use, I was just on uh Bayes.

11:31
luggage website, right? They have these like stunning uh imagery that is like uh of all the product shots, right? So the product would be like on the suitcase with the trolley handle on it. You would show the suitcase open, the suitcase closed, close up shots of the pieces. Now you would still use that on Amazon. The problem is that if you were to use that in your product images and you were just to use those images, oftentimes one, they’re not using all the images first of all.

12:00
The second thing is they’re just uploading those images as is with no text layovers, nothing interesting about it. And so while the customer might click through it, you’re not telling them anything. You’re just showing them something, right? And so their eye is going to look at it for a minute and just go to the next shiny object. And oftentimes we need to be showing and telling at the same time so that we can effectively increase conversion. So that’s kind of the basic, basic.

12:26
thing that you have to be doing on Amazon. Extra images, not the main image, right? Because you’re not allowed to use text in general. Yeah, on the other product images in the product image stack. The main image itself, um you wouldn’t really play around with it that much. Probably on your DNC website, you’d probably have just like a really pretty hero shot product on white or maybe not. Maybe it would be a background. um But on Amazon, when people search for your product and see that product show up in the search results,

12:54
you’re competing against immediately like 20 images in the upper part of your screen, right? And a bunch of them are gonna be advertisements, um but then there’s a bunch of organics that are gonna show up and your product needs to stand out. And so there’s so many little things you can do here or there to tweak how that image is showing up in the search results and try to get more clicks by playing around with that. And that’s basically one of the lowest hanging fruits that most brands can take advantage of.

13:22
So using that suitcase example, since it’s kind of fresh in your mind, what would you have changed about that image? it sounds like you saw a flat lay of the suitcase, which is pretty standard for a Shopify store. How would you have changed that for Amazon? Like the hero image. Let’s start with the Yeah, so a hero image, um there’s a couple different approaches that I would take to it, right? So one, what I’m looking for is what’s going on inside the category. So I’ll go look at all the competitive sets.

13:51
And then what is going on in other categories that are more competitive? If I were redoing the main images for base, for example, what I would be looking at is what is going on inside of their category, but also what is going on outside their category and maybe other competitive categories. What are people doing that we can get some ideas from? We go through an ideation jam session, but we don’t want to limit ourselves to creating just one or two options, right? So

14:17
What we have done is we’ve taken some of our top performing main images that we’ve done across lots of different categories. And we’ve trained an AI to basically uh create a bunch of different main images based on the one product image we’re dropping in from a brand. So um it might come up with someone holding the handle and maybe pushing the suitcase into the frame. So you’d imagine kind of like a hand coming in into the frame, right? And so something as subtle as that.

14:46
can totally catch the eye when nobody else is doing it. ah Another thing that we might do is we might play around and figure out like, how are we showing that it has multiple colors? How are we showing that it has multiple sizes? ah Are we playing with the angle of the suitcase? Does an angle make a difference in terms of what people are looking at first? So if all the suitcases are straight on, what happens if we put ours at an angle? uh If all of the suitcases are straight on, what happens if we show

15:15
someone leaning it and pulling it out of the frame, or it’s just thinking through all of those little elements. that’s angle, orientation, hands, middle hands. One thing that I noticed on Amazon is almost every image looks the same after a while, because I’m pretty sure it’s just people copying stuff, right? Yeah. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store,

15:45
I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show.

16:16
Part of it is yes, being different. The other part of it is how we can get um Rufus and the algorithm to pick up on what it is that we’re doing. So are we putting in some high-intent keywords in really tricky ways, right? So sometimes you’ll see like a hang tag on something that obviously is not a real hang tag, but it’s a digitally enhanced hang tag that might have your high-intent keywords on that hang tag. um

16:44
So for instance, if I’m trying to buy a bae’s bag, I know exactly what size I need that I’m looking for. When you buy a suitcase, you know what size you’re looking for. You don’t want to see all of the large suitcases when you’re just looking for a carry-on. That’s probably one of the more frustrating things, right? But it’s the same context of a mom who might be looking for snacks, right? If a mom is looking for snacks for her kids’ lunchbox, she doesn’t want

17:12
the big box of popcorn, she wants the individual snack size popcorn, right? So what’s the easiest way to communicate this to the shopper? It’s by having some of those high intent keywords in some way. So if you had a suitcase that was taking up the frame and you put a fake label on top of the suitcase that says 18 inch, you know, whatever it’s called, what was it called? What did I say? 18 inch roller handbag or, you know,

17:39
ah And then you you don’t figure out what your main keyword is there but the other thing that you’ll that you can do is when you’re doing your keyword research and this could be a secondary image you want to be figuring out like what are the questions that you know people have about luggage and that they need to check off in their mind right like one of the main things that we know people are curious about about luggage in general is and this is like it’s personal for me because we have a big luggage brand that we work with but also I’m

18:09
actually shopping for luggage right now myself. And one of the things that I noticed in my behavior is that I just have to know if this one will specifically fit in the Spirit Airline little like size chart. Right? Because everyone hates when you’re traveling, if you’ve been to Europe and you use any of those budget airlines and you get pulled out of line because your carry on doesn’t fit in their little thing. You know, this happened when I went to Iceland too. It’s like, it’s got to fit in the little thing. Right. And so

18:39
uh You have to check those dimensions with the wheels with the handle with everything and so What brands can do proactively is they know that is a question they can either put that chart on there to be like this is your Airline these are the dimensions this check check check fits and this this xxx doesn’t fit right and so it’s thinking through all of those little details To make sure that all of those questions are answered in the shoppers mind. So going back to the example of the um

19:08
of the uh main image, what if I want to know, what if we know as a brand that people that buy this product are mostly concerned if it’s going to fit specifically for Spirit Airlines? I might decide to put a badge on top of the luggage image, not on the white part, but on top of the luggage image that says Spirit Airline approved. And that way, as I’m seeing these images pop up in the search results, I as a shopper, I’m like,

19:38
Oh, that one is Spirit Airline approved. Boom, I’m to click on that one first. You know, it’s like, give them what they want really easily. so for a mom, the mom example buying her snacks, I know I need the popcorn. I want the snack size. This is the 25 piece snack size. Great. If it says it right there, 25 piece snack size for kids lunch boxes. I’m like, I’m going to click on that one because I don’t want to click through these other examples if I don’t know that they’re actually snack size or if I don’t know

20:07
That’s the 25 pack. So I guess you can get away with this on the bag. Like you can create like a fake label, right? Like, like it comes that way, right? And then insert all that information. And you’re saying AI is crawling all that also, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. I love that. Okay. And then, um, and in terms of just filling out all the image slots, I know, I think I heard you on another interview about uh storytelling.

20:35
with the imagery and all those slots. Walk me through that with the bag example. Yeah. So a bag example, we want to think through what are the top questions that people are going to be asking about the luggage, right? So one would be like the airline example. Another one might be the colorways that it has. Another one might be all of the features that the bag has. So like if it has pockets, if it has the expandable piece, if it has any inserts, if it has like any bonus items that come with it.

21:03
um There’s a set of questions for every product that you should know your consumers are asking, right? And if you can do a great job of making sure that you know the priority of those questions, like how many people care about this one thing versus another thing, and you can prioritize your image stack to answer those questions sequentially, you’re setting yourself up for success. And so you would want to do that in your product image stack and in your A plus content. And through the rest of it, you want to add different

21:32
details like badges uh for media are a great one if you want to build trust. Showing photos of the founder, it’s like uh some kind of a locally founded brand, telling the story behind the brand if that’s something that’s really important. There’s always some sort of personalized details that you can infuse into this or some sort of narrative that you can.

21:56
Conveyed have people identify with the product in some kind of way So you want to be thinking through that angle as well? Not just not just you know info info info info. It’s a bit of info and a bit of personalization as you go So how do you feel about video on the listing you mentioned founders story? Do you recommend that everyone have some sort of video on their listing as well 100 % Okay listings with video have 20 % increase in sales according to Amazon

22:26
Um, video used to be challenging. think that the way to go with video right now still is, uh, UGC. I think it’s, it’s, it’s easy. You get a bang for your buck. get potentially those, those creators posting on their platforms as well. You could tie it into a tick tock strategy, but that content is so easy to repurpose and you can repurpose it in so many different ways on your listings and in your advertising. So you can think through.

22:55
um taking all of these little micro clips from multiple different UGC videos, piecing it all together in various different ways, not just in one way. Like one might be an unboxing video, one might be a comparison video, one might be here’s how I pack my suitcase video, one might be here’s all the things I brought to Europe in this bag video, you know, like all of these different things um and showing that multiple different people love this product. And here’s all the reasons why in these videos.

23:24
Right? So that’s your strategy for getting UGC at scale? maybe not at scale, but what’s the strategy for getting UGC in the simplest way possible? We use various different sites for, like there’s a bunch of platforms that are out there that have UGC creators that are already on there and you can pay 200 bucks for a video or 300 or 500 depending on.

23:52
what specifically you want, you send them the product and they’ll do the video and then you get the video back. Okay. Just for the listeners, are there any particular ones that you use for your agency? We do. Okay. I’m like struggling to remember the name of it. So let me think. Okay, no worries. Yeah. Yeah. And as you’re looking for that, maybe we can, I’ll just link those up. Maybe you can email them to me after.

24:17
Let’s just talk about just some SEO fundamentals, because I know with AI and Rufus and everything, things have changed a little bit. How would you set up your listing doing keyword research and everything now today? So our tried and true stack that we’re using is Voc.ai paired with… So describe Voc.ai for the audience. It looks at reviews. Yeah. So Voc.ai does a number of different things.

24:44
It’s like many of these tools, many of them do many different things. But what we primarily use this one for is we’ll put it in ASIN and it will uh take all the reviews and all of the data on the listings, and then it will distill it down into visual interpretations for us. So um what that helps us do is kind of look at things like numerically to figure out like we were saying, what are the most important factors of this listing? What are the most important factors going on with the competitors as well?

25:14
where are the gaps within that, right? So an example of this is we were working with a baby brand and we noticed that this baby brand, em products actually em helped the, all the parents were saying this product helped the baby sleep. All the competitor products didn’t say this. And so this is one thing that is, it’s a gap because yes, we know this as a brand and obviously that’s why we built it. But the fact that,

25:43
the parents are saying this and that it’s not being said on the other listings is huge, right? So we can play that up. We can even show um like maybe some sort of like clock that shows like how many hours the baby’s sleeping. You know, it’s like, think about the pain that parents have when their baby’s not sleeping and they’re just like, they just want to sleep, you know? Like that, if they’re looking for product like this, it can be amazing. The other thing is that there was a gifting component to this, but the…

26:12
ways that it was mentioned in gifting was not in line with how everybody else was mentioning in gifting in that category. So just you’ll notice different things as you as you start to just kind of sift through and take in the data and you can say, okay, what happens if we play that up a little bit more and lean into that a little bit more. So that’s one reason why I like looking at voc.ai. You won’t always find insights for everything, but it’s a great place to start. Then on the on the data dive side,

26:40
What we’re doing there, one of my favorite pieces is they have this thing called battle of the titles. And that is something that I consistently say, if you’re looking to optimize your listing and you’re looking to get some quick wins, that’s the number one place you should start is with your titles, because we’ve seen the largest gains with the shortest or lowest effort, right? So it’s a very low lift activity. Imagine typing some keywords and putting that into your title and seeing sales overnight. That’s essentially what can happen with some of these tests. So

27:08
I always recommend starting there, but the reason why I like Battle of the Titles is because it forces you to look at your competitive set and try to increase your reach factor of your keywords in your title more so than theirs, right? And so you can basically change a keyword here, change a keyword there, and then you’ll see your score go up or down, and you can compare that score to the competitors that you’ve put into the Data Dive system. And so…

27:34
Doing that is just a really easy way. And the reason why I love this so much is because we had built our own internal calculator. And we had been doing this for brands manually uh in a spreadsheet. And we’d be giving this to them with a video showing them, like, here’s how you play with the calculator. And now, like when Data Dive uh had been already doing this inside of their software, I was like, yes, finally. So we completely migrated to Data Dive. uh

28:00
Primarily for that, em but then within that they have a really simple Niche dive as well So you have like a one-click system where you can go to your search page results Click on your product add your competitors and it’ll pull all of your data super fast um Into what they call their niche dive and that’ll help you start to figure out um your whole keyword system like which are gonna be your main root keywords that you’re gonna go after and you can start to

28:28
basically have all your keywords live in this platform. em And so you would take the two things, right? It’s the insights from Vogue that kind of give you direction. And then it’s the keyword data that you’re pulling from there. um And in addition to any keyword PPC reports that you have, any brand analytics that you have from Amazon, like you would want to pull that and cross-reference everything and make sure that you’re bringing in the Amazon data that you do have if you’re already selling on Amazon.

28:57
If you’re not, then you would definitely want to lean heavily on something like a data dive tool. So you’re not just launching into Amazon with very little keyword research. just seems like the, to me, at least the book, AI is more useful for the creative generation as opposed to the keywords, right? Does voc AI turn up a keyword that you can use in your title or I mean, data does all that already, right? Yeah, that would be more of a data dive thing.

29:26
But I think in terms of like laying out your overall strategy, you would want to understand the two, right? Because if you’re looking at Voke AI and it’s showing you certain trends around your product, then you might be more heavily on those types of keywords that play into that trend. And if you that again with your PPC keywords and say like, it could be that your PPC team is only going after the gifting words in the beginning, right?

29:54
They’re going after the gifting words. We want to show more of the, not just gifting images, but more of the gifting images, perhaps. We would want to lean more heavily on what types of gifting actually matter in the category. And so it’s really like looking at everything together and coming up with like a holistic strategy as opposed to just saying like, these are all my keywords, let’s go after everything at once because it’s probably going to be less effective. So I see. So you’re using the review. uh

30:22
generation, the reviews from Voc.ai to prioritize the keywords that you put in the front of your titles, thus overriding perhaps some of Data Dive’s suggestions. Not necessarily. would, we definitely lean on, on Data Dive for that component where I would say we use Voc.ai more heavily is for instance, one of the things that I do is I pull all of the, so yes, more on the creative side, but I will pull all of the reviews. I’ll download the CSV. I will put that into,

30:51
uh some, you know, like a custom GPT. And I will ask it to build a, uh build us the avatars for this brand based on all of this data that we have. And then also build me the creative brief uh for this avatar specifically for Amazon. And so we’ve uh built that kind of uh a GPT that’ll do that for us. And then from there, like, let’s say the images say we want to have an image that says

31:21
uh that talks about this and it shows this and it says this. We want an image that talks about this, says this and shows this. We would want to make sure that that’s aligned with the PPC or the SEO strategy. Okay. Okay. And swap out some words here and there, pull some of those data dive keywords, make sure it’s in the copy that we’re using, that sort of thing. It’s actually been a while since I’ve gone deep in the woods with data dive, but I remember there was a lot of discretion on your end uh in terms of the prioritization. m

31:48
maybe choosing outliers in certain cases. I don’t think I’ve tried that battle of the titles yet, so I’ll have to go back and give it a try. Yeah. That’s a fun one. That’s one of my favorite features. Okay. Okay. And then so you have your creatives. Can we talk about A plus content a little bit? Do most people you find scroll all the way down to the bottom and does it make a big difference? So A plus content is, there’s two things I can share with you about A plus content. It is the, the,

32:16
point of which you can have the biggest gains on your listing. So we’ve seen up to a thousand eight percent increase in sales just from basic A plus content, not even talking about premium A plus content. um So A plus content, the reason why it’s so effective is because it’s the last piece of content that people are going to see before they hit the reviews. So if you can think of it through that, through the lens of it’s more important to stop the scroll here than it is to have a bunch of

32:44
uh textual jargon. We don’t want to be keyword stuffing here. We want to be stopping the scroll and tell them one or two more things before they hit those reviews so that they can buy. You know, the goal should be to convert here. um The other thing I will say is that most brands today that come to us still don’t have their premium A plus content unlocked. If you’re selling on Seller Central,

33:07
This is something that is free and accessible right now. I have clients today that are paying a half million dollars to have this turned on on one skew on vendor central. And so, and that’s per year, they have to pay that amount. So they have to have huge advertising budgets to even get access to this still, which I think is silly. That’s a whole nother thing. But um if you’re a seller central brand as of like over maybe even two years ago now, um Amazon has given access to brands. It’s very simple to unlock.

33:35
The only requirements are that you have a brand story applied to all your ASINs ah and that you have submitted A plus content more than five times and that it’s been approved. Now, that doesn’t mean you have to have more than one product. It doesn’t mean that you have to have more than one set of A plus content. It doesn’t even mean that you have to have A plus content designed or brand story designed. You could literally put a placeholder in the brand story section.

34:02
You can put a placeholder image and you can put a placeholder image in your A plus content. You could submit it, see if it gets approved, make any changes if it doesn’t. Once it’s approved, duplicate, submit, duplicate, submit, duplicate, submit. You get the idea. Do that five times. Duplicate, submit. You don’t even need to redesign, change anything. Then it will unlock. You need to wait about a week. Should unlock premium A plus content on your account. The next time you click to enter your A plus content, it should say,

34:32
basic A plus content, premium A plus content, brand story. So from that point, you can design something nice and amazing. And the reason why you would want to do that is because it’s actually giving you a seamless scroll, very similar to a landing page takeover. It’s giving you the ability to add hotspots, it’s giving you the ability to add carousels, multiple carousels, it’s giving you the ability to full scale video. um you’ll have the best thing is that you get to upload a separate set of mobile content.

35:02
So that the 70 % of shoppers that are on mobile are now looking at their own set of content, which is ideal. OK, right. So right now with just regular A plus content, what happens on mobile? It just shrinks it probably all down, right? Yeah, it’s not optimized at all. So yeah, but it’s such a quick fix, really. So it’s something that everybody should be doing if they haven’t done it already. That’s a high priority that I highly recommend. Yeah.

35:31
of all the things you could do to your listing, the lowest lift is gonna be the titles. The second lowest lift is gonna be your main image. Those are both gonna show great gains, and they can show great gains, and then your A plus content will show the highest gains, but it is the highest lift. It’s the hardest one to do well. Sorry, I’m trying to just understand what you just said. So you’re saying like the A plus content has the potential for the highest gains on your list? Yeah, yeah. So I’ll give you the breakdown. So main image and product image stack.

35:59
we’ve seen up to 547 % increase in orders. For SEO and title testing, we’ve seen up to 990 % increase in orders. For A plus content, we’ve seen up to 1,080 % in orders increase. So they can each independently increase. The best is when you do it all together. Altogether, the highest we’ve seen together is a 2,500 % increase in order.

36:26
Okay, I would have thought that the title in your image stack would be the highest priority. do, cause I always thought that people don’t even make it down to the A plus, but I get it. If they’re looking for the reviews, they have to scroll past it, which implies that like the images used in the A plus content have to like grab you. Yeah, I think there’s also probably a, I uh don’t know. My brain always goes to this dwell factor of.

36:52
Like how, like I know, we know Amazon is tracking this very similar to how social media companies will track, like how much time people are watching your videos, how much time people are liking your posts and that sort of thing. I would imagine that brands that are performing best are getting higher dwell factor. like by having interesting color palettes going on in the product images and all kinds of flashy images going on in those product images that are showing and tally, people stay on those images longer, swipe back and forth.

37:21
and check them all out, right? But if it’s not interesting, they’re probably not gonna finish swiping. They’re gonna click the button and just go straight down the reviews. But if it is interesting, you might actually increase the factor of people scrolling to look at the A plus because they know it’s there. And just to get a few more questions answered because they might still have a couple of questions that they didn’t get answered that they might be looking for like, where is the answer to this? Right? And so they’re either gonna look for it in the A plus or they’re gonna start asking Rufus for it.

37:48
And Rufus now displays the image that’s associated with that answer. So if you know that people are asking Rufus about particular things, then you would want your imagery to answer that very clearly so that Rufus does serve it up in those scenarios. So you’re saying that this dwell time could be a ranking factor? I don’t know if it’s a ranking factor. I think it’s probably associated with conversion. Like if people are digesting your content a little bit longer, they’re likely more interested in your product and they’re likely adding to carton buying.

38:16
But if they’re, it’s like, it’s like, you think of a high bounce rate, if they’re not, if they’re not interacting or engaging with your content and they’re just leaving and bouncing, then your conversion rates going down. Right. So the whole goal is like, how can we increase that engagement factor? Like, how can we keep their attention, which is already really hard to do on Amazon, but how can we do it? Right. So like carousels of our, did, we pulled like a, our best performing, um, premium a plus content to see like,

38:45
What did they have in common? Is there something that we did there that we can lean into and say, okay, these are best practices we should do? And we itemize what are all the things that we may or may not have done with any set of A plus content. The only thing that all of them had in common was that we use carousels for every single one. And there is some sort of a bias on carousels that some people don’t like carousels because they feel like

39:14
why would I want to take my people down a rabbit hole? I just want them to put it in the cart and buy. Yeah. Right. But there’s a difference between primary content and secondary content. And a lot of times your primary content, which is the first thing that people are going to see, we want that to answer the most direct questions that people have if they’re just looking to like get it in the cart, like answer the question, get it in the cart. But there’s there’s a whole nother set of buyers that probably want to they like to spend time researching. They’re looking for the best one.

39:43
they want to know the secondary information. And so by having that information in the carousel, yes, tucked away, but it gives them some more to digest and convinces them that this is the right product for them. Right. So that could be the different differentiating factor there is like showing them why this is this is right for them or showing them that it’s easy to assemble in this amount of steps or showing them like, what are all the things that you would want to break down in a carousel that would help people better?

40:11
identify and understand your product. I can see this being very effective for product that’s a little more nuanced or complicated. Like the bag example, I could see A plus content being really worth it, right? Or any electronics or anything that requires more research, right? Or anything that has larger catalogs and multiple use cases. like if you have, um like there’s certain brands, there’s many brands that are coming out right now that have like 15 different products and they all have a use case. And so

40:38
this gives you a chance to kind of break those down and really explain when you would want to buy one or the other or a bundle, right? So you could get into cross-selling, upselling products across the catalog by taking advantage of carousels. What do think about bullet points? Like, you know, usually when I sell these, when I buy on Amazon these days, I just kind of look at the images and maybe like a look at the title and I just buy it, right? So like if you were to prioritize all these, how would you do it?

41:07
Prioritize what? Everything. Titles, uh image stack, bullet points, A plus content. Let’s say you had a limited time. For me, I group the title and the bullets into the same category. I just look at it like primary and secondary content is the same way I look at title and bullets. So title is your primary, bullets is your secondary. You still have to lay out the main five to 10 things in your bullets.

41:36
and it has to be super easy to digest in just the first few words. So it has to be skimmable, know, that sort of thing. ah But your primary heavy hitters are gonna be in your title. And with A plus content, it’s the same thing. It’s primary and secondary content. Your primary content that answers the questions are gonna be the first banners that people see top to bottom. Anything that requires a swipe is gonna be secondary content.

41:58
And I just had this question that just came to my mind. Why are these brands paying $500,000 for premium A plus content when they could just use your five submission method? Oh, that’s on vendor central. Oh, vendors. Oh, vendors central. Then they are. Okay. are. And vendor central brands don’t get access to it even today. Sorry, can you just explain to me what the advantages of being on vendor central today? So vendor central um

42:26
I think a lot of the larger brands are the ones that are still on vendor central because they have a direct relationship with Amazon. And so for some of those brands, it makes more sense that Amazon would still buy their product and they just ship it off to Amazon. um So it just depends. And even some of those are even doing like a hybrid approach at this point. So. Yeah.

42:51
I would say it’s not the majority of the clients that we have. It’s probably like 10 to 20 % of our clients are vendor. But yeah, not all of them have premium. For most of them, we’re pushing them to get access to premium because I personally think that they should have access if seller central brands are getting it for free. It seems unfair that vendor centrals wouldn’t get it and they’re the ones spending the big advertising dollars. So. Okay. You know, it’s funny, before I hit record, we…

43:19
briefly chatted about AI generated content, but while we were talking, it seems like you are using AI for the images in a way. Oh, absolutely. Okay. So what, can you clarify your anti AI or your reservations about AI content that we talked about before we hit record? Yeah. So, okay. So here’s, here’s my two cents on AI. Okay. One, I think everybody’s

43:45
uh We’re caught up right now in a new AI tool coming out every week and having to learn all of these different AI tools and how it’s gonna, know, how we’re gonna make it happen for our business. AI can do so many things so great. My team uses it every single day. We use multiple different tools. We’re always trying to figure out the best and latest creative tools as are any team right now and as they should be. uh I don’t think on the creative side that many AI tools are able to do anything in one click. It is a huge time suck.

44:14
first of all. um we have found ways that it does make sense to use AI in certain scenarios. The second thing is AI is awesome at creating these like whimsical crazy things, right? But in order to do that, if you still want it to be pixel perfect, it most likely won’t be. um It is gonna require touching things up in Photoshop afterwards. So again, like it is, you can do almost anything you wanna do in your imagination, but you have to know that that comes with

44:43
a resource intensive time suck, right? Okay. All right. Yeah. the other thing is, the other thing is like, I don’t think AI is suitable for doing entire listings top to bottom. um I’ve seen people try to do like a one click and that creates all your product images, a one click and it creates all your A plus content. We ourselves are trying to do that. We’re trying to break our own systems. I don’t feel confident in anything that we’ve created to sell to anyone today.

45:11
And I would, and that’s something like just ethical. I think that there’s, we take a lot of pride in the quality that we put out there. And so if I’m going to put something out there, I want it to be something that’s better than you’re going to get on Fiverr at least, you know, or better, you know, like I want something that’s like meaningful in that sense. And I don’t think a lot of AI tools.

45:32
especially the one click things that people are trying to pitch right now are really there and that they’re taking in the data that’s required to create more of a strategic approach to doing listings well. So I think that that’s a caveat. That being said, we have created listings that are full AI and nothing else. And we’ve done it for just two brands at the moment where it made sense to do it for them. It was very specific products. I’m not going to say which ones they were, but

46:01
In those scenarios, it did make sense. For the majority of brands, it doesn’t make sense because you would look at the product and you would kind of subconsciously know that the content is just like off. Like something’s just not right. And then you lose that trust factor with the shopper. And that’s something that you have to take into consideration. It’s the same thing of like when, when people started using renders for their imagery and Amazon didn’t want people using renders because so many people were getting bad renders. And then you have things that just look

46:31
horrible and then the customer receives something totally different and they’re upset and so we have to make sure that when we’re adopting any of these tools that we’re doing so responsibly and still showing what the customer is actually going to receive and that everything feels really authentic and true to the brand and so Where we’re using it today is in a few different ways. We’re filling in the gaps with any content that’s missing we are

46:56
Maybe taking the photo shot like there’s a bunch of clients that have spent thousands of dollars on on photo shoots and then they’ve changed their packaging and that’s something that we can place back into those images with AI and then touch up in Photoshop or we can just do with Photoshop. Just depends on the scenario. um There’s certain scenarios where we um we might want to play around with something that’s not possible in a in a photo shoot or we might need models that we don’t have available to us in a photo shoot and we might be in a time crunch.

47:26
So in that scenario, we would want to lean on AI imagery. I just don’t think it’s best to use it for everything start to finish for most types of products. usually takes me multiple iterations to come up with an AI image for like a meta ad, for example. And then recently I critiqued a student’s website. They were selling ethically sourced supplements and it was an image of a AI woman which ruined it for me, right? Like as soon as you see like an AI person that’s obvious, you start to question everything that’s on the page.

47:56
So 100 % agree with you there. But if you couldn’t tell that the woman was AI and it was done really well, then you wouldn’t lose that trust factor, right? But it’s because you picked it up so quick. And so there’s things that you can use like PickFu to help determine whether people are noticing whether it’s AI or not, right? Like you could have easily put those images into a split test.

48:19
and ask people like, which image do you like better? Don’t even mention the word AI, but then see if people are like, I like this one because it’s not AI. And if you notice the multiple people are catching that it’s AI, it’s like, okay, this isn’t working. know, we have to either do it better or do something different. Since you brought up PickFu, let’s give these guys a shout out here. So how are you using PickFu in your agency? So I actually found PickFu from your blog many, years ago. So almost eight years ago, I want to say, maybe between six and eight years ago, long time.

48:49
um And I loved it so much for Split Testing Main Images that I immediately reached out to them and I told them, was like, we have to get on a call. I am gonna be your ambassador. We need to do videos together. More people need to know about this. And they didn’t even have a choice. It was just like, this is happening. Whether you like it or not, this is happening. I made a video, I sent it to them and they were like, this is great. So we started doing videos together many, many years ago. And…

49:16
Since then, I just made it part of our process at mindful goods that we always use split testing as we’re creating designs because sometimes you need to get data back quick into these feedback loops and you don’t have time to wait for manager experiments on Amazon. Like you don’t have four to 10 weeks to wait for one split test. We need to get some sort of pre validation. And what that does is it helps us understand maybe

49:43
which main image might perform best on Amazon or which order our image stack should be or any little tidbits that we might’ve missed on our A plus content that we didn’t think to incorporate back into our design. So there’s so many little insights that you can gain by running these split tests. So we just make that a part of our design process so that we are doing that for our clients. I mean, I personally found that real humans, so the trend right now is to just upload images to like AI and have them tell you which one’s better converting.

50:13
But I’ve always found like human responses are just way more nuanced and things that AI would just never tell you. At least that’s just been my experience. Also, if we think about the, I do think things are gonna go that way for sure. And that’s gonna allow us to do even like more rapid testing without thinking about the financial costs as much. I’m like, uh I’m really into that as well on the AI audience side, but I agree with you. There’s certain insights that you get from the human element. um

50:42
that you might not get from uh an AI poll. And there’s certain specific ones that instantly come to mind when I think about it, where it’s usually the questions that people have that are in their head that they then say in the comments. That might not come up uh in an AI analysis, but one of the ones that I always remember is this one that we did with Yesbar. And I think they’re actually uh

51:12
their founders are based in your area as well. they, we were testing main images for them and a bunch of people kept uh mentioning in the comments like is or asking like, this product vegan? And we realized like, oh, wow, we did not highlight the fact that it’s vegan. It is vegan, but it’s like very small, like light type on the box. So we basically digitally enhanced the word vegan onto their packaging so that it was like big and bold. And one of the first things that you saw

51:42
And I mean, there’s a couple other things that we obviously did to the design. We included some close ups of the stacked snack bars and we enhanced the colors a little bit and like, you know, our little wizardry tricks and the click through rate on their listing went up by 11.8 % within two weeks. And that’s like, that’s that’s like the power of playing around with this creative stuff. That’s something that I probably would not have pointed out. Right. I mean, how would I know that people are looking for vegan stuff?

52:11
Yeah, in relation to this product. Correct. Correct. So Daniela, where can people hire you or get help from you? And what types of brands do you serve? Like, do you have certain limitations or requirements? I should say not limitations. Right. We’re typically working with seven and eight figure brands that are a little bit more established at this point. We still do work with a handful of early stage brands every year.

52:38
But it has to be the right fit. Like we’re really passionate about working with brands that believe their product should be in the world for some reason or another so that we have great stories to tell as we’re working with those brands. So if you think of like some of the most amazing direct to consumer websites that are out there right now, we are helping those brands bring that to life on Amazon. Okay, because I know you have a pricing package page, right? Where you can just buy a package.

53:05
Is that open to everyone or once you click on that package, you get further screened? get further screened. So I will say we do turn away like 80 % of the business that comes our way is not a fit. I know it’s a bummer. I wish we could serve everybody, but we’re really great at serving this specific type of clientele, these specific type of brands that really believe in their content.

53:34
right, like that investing content, they want their product to look the best that it can possibly look on every single channel. That’s who our dream customers are, because they get it. They completely understand the value of content. And so we prefer to work with those founders. Anyone that’s like not sure why somebody would pay uh three times the cost for a listing for us, it’s just like, it’s not even a question. Like it’s like the clients that we work with, they completely get it and we don’t, we’re not questioned. So

54:02
ah You can find us at mindfulgoods.co and you can find amazing examples and case studies and we share everything. We have a whole metrics tab on our website that has our, usually we’re updating a few times throughout the year of all of our split testing data. We publish it all. ah I haven’t seen any other agency doing that yet. So we’re really passionate about helping founders manage their split tests, run their split tests, using that data iteratively, improving throughout the year.

54:32
And then we like to share those results in aggregate uh and in the form of amazing case studies from smaller and larger brands on our website. And if you’re looking for our latest and greatest creatives that we’re putting out or test results, we share almost everything on LinkedIn. So you can find me there. So search for Daniela Boltzmann on LinkedIn or mindful. OK, Daniela Boltzmann. Yeah. OK. Well, Daniela, thank you so much for coming on the show. uh

54:59
It’s just a small world. I’m actually going to play tennis with the founder of Tik Fu and like right after this interview. They’re great. I’m jealous. I’m jealous. All right. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you haven’t updated your Amazon listings in a while, then we listen to this episode and follow Daniela’s playbook. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 628.

55:25
And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you wanna hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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627: The Old Ecommerce Playbook Is DEAD (What’s Working In 2026)

The Old Ecommerce Playbook Is DEAD (What's Working In 2026)

In this episode, we’re going to show you why many ecommerce stores are dying right now, and why most store owners have absolutely no idea it’s happening.

In the last two years three big shifts completely changed how customers find products, how they decide to buy, and whether you actually get to keep any of the money you make.ย  ย Here’s the playbook.

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, I’m going to show you why many e-commerce stores are dying right now, and most owners have absolutely no idea that this is happening. Because in the last two years, three big shifts completely changed how customers find products, how they decide what to buy, and whether you actually get to keep any of the money that you make.

00:24
Everything I’m walking you through today is pulled straight from the playbook that I’m teaching live at Seller Summit 2026. So stay with me because this is genuinely important stuff. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away.

00:53
Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

01:23
And if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever going to be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:44
Welcome to the My Wife Could Her Job podcast. Today we’re going to talk about all the cool things that are happening in e-commerce and the skills that you need to have in order to survive this year. Yeah. Why does it already feel like it’s been 15 years? I know it’s only February, but I feel like I’ve aged a couple of years in just the past month. That’s just what it’s felt like for me. I feel the same exact way. Is there like an age in Shopify years that we?

02:14
like agent dog years, but agent Shopify years. don’t know, but there’s some, let’s just start with the good news. Shall we? Yes. The tariffs have been marked as unconstitutional. This was just announced today as of this recording and I’m like, how do I get a refund? Uh, it’s going to make life so much better. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know how, I don’t know the procedure. Like I literally saw the announcement this morning, so I’m not sure what’s going to happen.

02:41
Yeah, I got an alert on my phone, actually. don’t even like I didn’t sign up for tariff alerts, but it was like such big news that it hit the Apple News, I think, cycle. And so I got an alert. It’s going to be really interesting because I know last year at Seller Summit, there were people, multiple people who had containers sitting in China that they could not afford to ship over, um you know, full product. And so and obviously it’s been, you know, 10 months, nine months since that.

03:11
that time, but I mean, it really impacted people in a very negative way for several months last year. So this should be interesting this year to see how it all works out. it’s funny. One of our vendors in the US actually gets their stuff from India and she hasn’t she’s been out of stock for months because the India tariff was 50 percent and she refused to ship that container over. So we’ve been like out of stock on a small subsection of our of our products that we get from the US. Wow.

03:40
OK, yeah, so we actually know who our vendor is. Yeah. So good news. That’s good news for everybody. I think I don’t think you’ll be getting a refund. Let’s just be honest about that. you have to wait for the class action lawsuit to happen, which will take 15 years, and then you’ll get a check for four dollars and 22 cents at the end of it. Exactly, exactly. But future tariffs, that’s a good thing. Yeah. The other thing that’s

04:08
is one of the sponsors for Seller Summit is offering three full months of managed PPC, Amazon PPC, but only if you’re an attendee of Seller Summit. And this is a killer deal. It is. Now I haven’t sold on Amazon in quite a bit of time. What is the value of that, honestly? What are people… Feels like it’s expensive. I did a trial with another company in the past.

04:38
because, and I think they charged, I wanna say it was something like two to $3,000 a month for fully managed. And of course you still have to pay for ads, obviously. But this company is trying to establish themselves in this space right now. And this is just a killer offer. Fully managed services for three months.

05:06
Again, worst case, if it doesn’t work out for you, you just go on with your day. I mean, that’s a crazy deal. That’s basically paying for your ticket five times over. Absolutely. Yeah. 10 times over probably. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s exciting. Now I want to sell on Amazon again. I just want the deal. I love a good deal. So any of you, guys listening to this, have already signed up for Seller Summit. Send me an email. Of course, we’re going to announce it at the event, obviously. But if you’ve already…

05:34
If you want to get a jump on this, you’ve already bought a ticket, just go ahead and send me an email. Just hit reply to any email that I’ve ever sent you. Get first in line for that one. The other thing that I’m excited to present, I’m going to start with myself. One of the talks that I’m giving at Seller Summit is how to vibe code your own Shopify apps. I think in a prior episode, we had talked about the death of the Shopify app store. Yeah.

06:02
I really think, you know, just for context, I went through and I vibe coded an app in about an hour for an app that costs $50 a month in perpetuity. Yeah. And I know nothing about Shopify app development. And I actually didn’t even look at the code that it generated. Really? I vibe coded the whole thing. I did not even look at it. OK. So because I was going to ask you, our friend Chris Cody will be at Seller Summit and he’s going to ask.

06:30
Can a regular person do this? Yes. And in this case, I was a regular person because I had no clue what the hell was going on. OK. Yeah. I that’s pretty exciting. Do I need to get a bigger room for you for that one? Because I think that will be very popular. So what I’m going to basically do is provide the frameworks. I’m going to provide like three real apps that I have VibeCoded. Yeah. And then I’m going to walk through how to VibeCode one of them. Yeah.

06:58
Well, and just a good example of this is you and this was like a year ago, you and I were talking about the loyalty app and how much I was seeing on my end, like revenue was being driven by the loyalty app. And you said you asked me bunch of questions about it. And then you asked me how much a month it was. And I said, I think we are paying it was like two or three hundred dollars a month. And we had the like not a great plan. We didn’t have a lot of the features. And you were like, you’re paying what?

07:28
And I was like, yeah, super expensive. And you ended up coding that up for your own shop pretty quickly. I don’t think that was an hour code, but it was definitely something that was reasonable. Yeah, that one took a weekend. OK, so you know what? I vibe coded that from scratch from my own platform. Yeah. I think you could probably do this in an afternoon using this vibe coded app. Because something like a loyalty program actually isn’t all that complicated. Yeah. Also.

07:57
You’re not going to be able to do this just to be clear with like a Clavio or a PostScript or something like that. That’s a little bit more involved. But there’s a lot of apps in the app store that are super popular that do very simple things. You can easily vibe code those. Yeah. So what I’m also hearing you say is there won’t be any app sponsors at Seller Summit. There are not going to be any app sponsors at Seller Summit. Certainly not Shopify apps. Yes. I actually don’t think we’ve really had many app sponsors at Seller Summit over the years. So that’s OK. uh

08:25
So let’s switch gears a little bit because I do want to, this is something that I’ve been actually kind of thrown into on accident. I think our friend Jeff Oxford is going to be there, who’s uh one of our favorite Seller Summit speakers. And I’ve been having to do a lot of SEO work lately on category or collection pages. And every time I get tasked with this, I’m like, does this even matter anymore? Like, should I even care?

08:53
about SEO, can I cancel my Ahrefs membership? I hope he’s going to be talking about all that. Yes. I asked him to talk about it. I actually did an experiment over the holidays where my traffic went up 25 % because of these SEO and AEO tactics uh ranking uh in the AI LLMs.

09:16
And Jeff is going to cover all of that. asked him to cover. He’s actually gone the extra mile and he’s actually gathered a whole bunch of statistics, whereas I’m only one store. He actually has a variety of clients that he can talk about, too. Yeah, I’m excited about that because I sometimes I’m working on these these little tasks and I’m like, this which am I even doing this right? Should I be changing my strategy? And I’m sure I should. I’m excited to hear what he has to say about it. I think ranking in the LLMs is the most important thing that

09:45
you could be working on right now. Because people aren’t using the traditional Google search anymore and they’re not clicking on the blue links. They’re doing their research in ChatGPT just as an example. And when they’re ready to buy, they buy what ChatGPT tells them to buy. So it’s really key to get mentioned. Yeah. I mean, know I am just uh as a user. So yeah, absolutely. That’s actually how I shop now. Yeah.

10:14
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10:43
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11:13
talk to them right now. Find out what needs fixing while you still have time to fix it and go over to quietlight.com for a free valuation. So speaking of AI, I saw this on the Seller Summit website and I’m actually intrigued because I didn’t I don’t know anything about this talk, but it’s a

11:32
Practical AI strategies to grow your revenue by 4x and AOV by 22%. What sort of bold promise are we making here with this That’s everything that I’ve done with my store. It’s going to be piggybacked on the Shopify live coding. I’m going to show people exactly what I have done with my store, and then I’m going to show them how to implement it. Awesome. I actually presented this at DTC, whatever number it is, 8x, 10x.

12:02
But people were asking like, how do I do this with my store? Like, is there a Shopify app that does this? And I was like, well, the problem with Shopify apps today, like if you look in the app store, they all say AI powered and you really have no idea what the heck does what. But you can easily vibe code the things that I’m gonna teach you in that lecture. Awesome. And then, you know, we talked a little bit about AI. You know, one of the top popular sessions people wanted.

12:31
all the sessions, we talked about the free PPC, are just ads in general. So, ah you know, we’re talking about YouTube ads again. ah I feel like every year, I’m assuming this is Brett Curry. It’s Brett Curry. uh So TikTok Shop has been killing it. And of course, YouTube wants to do the same thing. Yeah. And YouTube shopping has evolved a lot since the last year.

12:59
And so Brett’s going to give us an update and how to sell on video and develop affiliate relationships just like TikTok, Sean. So one thing I love about Brett’s talks is that since he has an agency, he’s like a little bit like Jeff Oxford in that he can bring multiple case studies. oh it’s not just and obviously I like hearing single case studies too, for sure. But like I love that he always has lots of examples.

13:26
um It’s funny. I still think about his examples from last year um two of the big ones that he had were the Navage or whatever the nasal I can’t get that one out of my head the nasal and then they also do like a really bright hair color brand um But it’s funny because I was talking to another ads agency a couple weeks ago And one of their clients is a different nose nose clean your system

13:51
And I was like, oh, it’s the competitor to Brett’s nose cleaner system, you know. So anyway, I was like, it’s funny because like he has such great examples that like they they I still think about those ads that he was showing us a year ago uh from the stage. So it’s pretty cool, like all the examples that he brings. And it really makes it easy to understand, like what’s happening because he shows you like this is exactly what it is. This is why it works. This is the breakdown of how how it’s set up. And so I feel like anyone can walk, watch his talk and implement it like.

14:21
you know, the next day or the next week. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, lives not not just live selling, but social selling is still huge and will continue to be huge. And YouTube’s playing catch up. Yeah. Which brings me to TikTok shop, actually. I invited Ian Page to come talk about TikTok shop. It’s actually changed dramatically in just the last six months. I don’t I just published a YouTube video about this, actually some of the changes, but.

14:49
they had announced that they’re not allowing people to do merchant fulfilled anymore. Like they’re not allowed to ship stuff themselves and they’re trying to push everyone over to fulfilled by TikTok. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in e-commerce that you should all check out.

15:18
It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. And that’s one of the major changes and there’s all these like hidden

15:47
gotchas actually. So Ian is a, I can’t remember, certified TikTok shop partner. And he actually shared with me some of their internal documents about, you know, how they, how they tier their different sellers. So Ian’s going to go through all the fine print on how to become a successful TikTok shop seller. And I think this is very important because discovery has pretty much gone the way of social, right?

16:15
Which is why I’m really excited that Tiffany’s coming back. I think if we had to vote on, her some of it’s favorite speaker of all time, Tiffany Wynn’s hands down. I think so. uh Always, she could talk about anything and people would go to that session. But she’s actually doing something that I think is really important. She’s going to talk about the importance of storytelling on video. And just, you know, we.

16:37
You and I have been pushing this for so long, couple years now in the course, on the podcast. I feel like we’re always talking about you need to make video, you need to make video. But still, the number one question we get is, can I make a faceless video channel? Right? Like people do not want to be on video. And for you and I who’ve been doing this a really long time, it doesn’t seem as overwhelming. But I know if you’re just getting started, in fact, we’re doing a challenge in the course next, know, this coming month about making videos.

17:06
It’s tough, it’s a big hurdle, but it’s a hurdle that if especially as a brand you can get over and make that video content. mean Tiffany’s grown her entire business on video content and she’s been doing it for, I think she got started in e-commerce in 2016, 2017 timeframe. So she’s gonna give you guys some tips on basically how to be comfortable on camera and how to push record. What do you have to do?

17:35
as well as she’s gonna show you guys the halo effect of that video content creation, right? Which leads into the storytelling, the brand storytelling. um And she’s like, it’s amazing when you make videos how, um like she was talking about how people will search, right? Like they’ll go into chat or whatever they’re using and they’ll start searching. But at some point, they usually type in your brand name, right? And they wanna learn more about the brand. um

18:03
And she’s like, and if what’s coming up is video content for people and like it’s the founder, right? Talking to people or the rep, right? Doesn’t have to be the founder, right? If you want to have like a brand spokesperson, whoever that would be. um She’s like the amount of sales that they get from people like searching for not, not searching for Emmalou’s, sorry. um Emmalou’s or searching for Tiffany, right? Or Paul um and getting uh just that halo effect of.

18:31
the search and the video and then basically connecting with Paul and Tiffany and their story and the brand. And she’s actually launching a brand new brand right before Seller Summit. So it’ll be really, you guys will get to hear all about that as well. So super excited to have her, obviously one of the favorite Seller Summit speakers and always entertaining. And hopefully we’ll help you guys get over your fear of video. Well, I think one thing that’s important about what she’s teaching is

18:57
Your face doesn’t have to be on there. You can do a really good story tell with just your voice and maybe different scenes maybe around your office or whatnot. I forgot what it’s called, a voiceover, that’s what it’s called. Voiceover videos. So even if you are squeamish, the storytelling aspect is way more important than anything else. And you know who’s been creating really great video content is one of our Solar Summit alums is Meg. And this is where I feel like you…

19:27
Because the other question we get is, well, I sell dirt, right? I sell cement or some really obscure product. you’re like, remember that we had a guy one year that sold cement stones like years ago. um So there’s people like, this is not a video product, right? Like Andy Humphrey sells sprinklers, you know? But Meg sells hermit crab food. And like crickets and like really weird dirt, like basic stuff. And she has been making TikTok videos.

19:56
at least for the last year. And when I started seeing them, she didn’t have a ton of engagement, she doesn’t have a ton of followers. Now when she posts video content, you can see how much it’s grown, right? And while she is on the video talking, a lot of the content is geared towards like, we just got this huge shipment of grubs, let’s repack it to ship and sell, right? And let’s see what we’re, this is the Christmas bonus bug. You know, all these things where you’re just like,

20:23
It’s not about her, she’s talking about the product, she’s talking, and it’s all about the product getting to you, right? So I think people are like, I don’t wanna just stand in front of the camera, totally get it. But there’s ways you can do this, even with bugs, to uh grow your brand. Actually, while we’re on the topic of storytelling, there’s a session that is gonna be all about storytelling for meta ads. uh

20:52
I first met Scott at one of Kevin King’s events and we got to talking. He runs Merchant Mastery. And he was like, hey, why don’t you just give this a try with your meta ads? And it involved telling your entire story in text on the meta ads itself. And when I adopted that, it actually is now one of my higher performing ads. Interesting. So he sent over one of his presentations for us to look through.

21:22
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago, I was shocked at how much he gives people away, like gives away that he should probably charge for it. I mean, I know he does have a program and stuff, but like the amount of stuff that he’s giving away for free is pretty nutty. Yeah, and it works. What he’s teaching work. So if your meta ads have not been performing that well lately, his storytelling framework that he’s going to be teaching at Sellers Summit works because I have actually tried it for myself.

21:51
And I will say the bar is high for him only because we know multiple people who have come to Sellers Summit over the past five years who have said the meta ads talk alone was worth the ticket price. um I think of our most recent is Kelly, who has Kelly Dream, which is a crochet kit. I mean, she went to the ads. She jokes that she went to the ad session and did every single thing that you said to do. I think it was your session um and basically blew her business up and.

22:19
matter of a couple of months to the point where every time I would talk to her, she would be in her her townhouse garage shipping products, right? She was not prepared for the level of growth that she had. So I would say these the meta ads talks typically at seller summit are what people view as the best investment of the entire event. Yep. And what’s funny about this is we have a couple of talks on sourcing and this all obviously happened before this this terror.

22:47
real got ruled unconstitutional, but all these tactics still apply. And all the factors over there are willing to do some of these things. So one of our talks given by our very own JK Beaton, who’s long time sell-a-some attendee, he’s actually a student in my class. He’s going to give a talk about how to cut costs. just imagine now that the tariffs hopefully will be gone, and you can cut costs, things could get like cheaper than they were.

23:17
like a couple years ago when all this stuff was happening. And there’s a variety, I actually, I’ve seen his entire talk. There’s some tactics in there that I was not employing with sourcing also. Yeah, because he does this for a living. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the other tariff talk? The other one is how to source from Vietnam. Vietnam, so I just started sourcing from Vietnam. It’s Jim Kenamers giving that talk and

23:45
I found that the prices in Vietnam are lower and at the time the tariffs were lower as well. So it’s a win-win. uh The hard part actually is finding the factories in Vietnam to work with. And that’s what he’s going to teach us, like how to source in Vietnam, all the gotchas and the differences. Well, know, it happened to one of my clients where she’d been sourcing from China for six, seven years, probably longer than that. And then last year,

24:13
She sent some she does curriculum and Bible studies and she sent something to her factory that she’s used for a really long time And they were like we can’t print this it’s religious materials They’ve always printed this stuff right and it’s never been an issue, but something was triggered right? And they were left absolutely scrambling so kind of regardless of you know your situation. It’s always good to have another you know tentacle right to

24:40
be able to at least, if you’re not gonna source from Vietnam tomorrow, to understand how it works and to be able to just be exploring things because I feel like last year was so volatile and most people had all their eggs in one basket. And just sort of being prepared for whatever comes next and having options, really important for folks. I mean, here’s what’s great about Vietnam. They’re getting their stuff from China, like the raw materials and they’re making it. So you can pretty much get everything.

25:09
A lot of the stuff from Vietnam that you can from China. It’s just where it’s like assembled and created. Which speaking of getting products, let’s talk about product research. Yes. You know, I feel like most of the people at Seller Summit already have a product, um you know, and are already selling. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t need new products to sell to, you know, expand their product line or even, you know, we still always have some new folks.

25:38
who are still in the process of trying to figure out, they know they wanna do this, but they don’t know exactly what they wanna do yet. Yeah, so Isabella’s given this talk. uh She has this framework that is very comprehensive that allows you to come up with a product, make changes and validate that it’s gonna sell before you invest a lot of money into it. uh What’s funny about this is I’m trying to actually, so one of the tools she uses, I’m actually trying to get,

26:07
some free free love because I’ve been in contact with this company. We actually had lunch. I had lunch with the CEO and he wants to sponsor. He just doesn’t have the resources to spend send people out. So I’m trying to finagle some free free membership love of this tool so that when she gives that talk, people can do it right there. That’d be very exciting on the floor. Yeah. But yes, even if you are not new and you already have products, I feel like Isabella’s uh

26:37
talk on research and validation is top notch. In fact, I believe right after that talk, Charles hired her on the spot. Yes. Yeah. We have a lot of talks this year on AI, which I think is fantastic because I feel like that’s all anybody’s talking about right now. um And it’s something that I will say people are either using very successfully or people are failing wildly.

27:06
And I’ve seen both examples this past week of that happening. So let’s talk about some of our AI talks. Yeah, so I think for me, like the AI talks that I curated are ones that can actually make you money. Not like the fun ones like, oh, create your own music video. There’s a bunch of cool stuff you can do with AI, but we’re focusing specifically on what can make you money.

27:31
And one thing that I wanted Bernie to talk about since he’s like the AI, he’s one of the people who’s played around with this the most. Is this ability to let agents handle all your busy work. And the idea here is you’re treating these agents, and I know that term is being thrown around a lot, but you’re treating these agents as like individuals who you assign tasks. And then they, so it’s more like,

28:01
people management almost. And so he’s going to be talking about what agents he uses. He’s actually going to focus on one just to not overwhelm everyone. Right. The main one that he uses, the main frameworks and how he deploys these agents to do those tasks for him so that when he kind of just wakes up in the morning, he already has a whole bunch of stuff done. I haven’t seen his talk yet, but because I actually don’t know that much about how, what he’s doing. Yeah.

28:28
But I do know that he’s really good at simplifying things and making sure that you can leave with something. You’ll be able to deploy these agents by the end of this talk. And if not, you can see them during the round tables and even get some hands on help. Yeah. And I feel like we don’t see Bernie without seeing Ritu. That’s correct. I love every talk that Ritu gives. She’s like Tiffany to me. They have very different personalities, but like.

28:55
whatever she’s talking about, I like rushed to that session because it’s always so informational. We I saw I don’t know if you were in that room with me. I saw her give a talk last year at another event about creatives and just like blown away at how she was doing things. And basically, I felt like what makes her talk so strong is that.

29:18
A lot of times you’ll still see people give an AI talk, right? But they don’t tell you exactly how they got to the final product, right? And so it’s like there’s always this gap between like, okay, do these three things and then boom, you have this, right? But when you do it, it’s like, boom, you have not that. And I love how like one of the things she really hit on when I saw her talk last was basically like all the important prompting ah components that she has basically created.

29:47
And basically how even if you’re not like a graphic designer or a video editor or all the, you know, like a professional in that area, you can get really, really close to a perfect final product using the right words, right? Which I think most of us just don’t know how to do. So this year for Ritu and it’s where I haven’t like completely squared away exactly what I want to talk about yet. But right now she’s going to be talking about vibe coding.

30:16
for e-commerce, I’m covering the Shopify part, she’s covering vibe coding for pretty much everything else, mainly focused on what you can do on Amazon and with your website as well. Very interesting. And then I see AI generated UGC. Yes, so Leo Segovio is giving that talk and I saw what he was doing and I was fascinated by it. So what he’s gonna teach the audience how to do is create

30:45
creatives for your meta ads on mass using AI. And so one thing that really caught my eye when he was talking to me about this was you can take like a winning ad. Let’s say I sell moisturizer. Okay. And I see this ad and I want to just kind of replicate it. Well, he has this automated flow setup where you could take an existing ad, insert your product, change the model around and the script, and it automatically follows that format.

31:15
Oh, wow. That already works and it looks really good. And then you run ads with it. So it’s all automated. He uses this tool called N8N, which is, uh I don’t even know what you call it. I guess an automation platform or workflow pattern where you just click a button and it generates a bunch of these creatives. So one of the problems of running meta ads is that you constantly need to refresh your creatives. But with this automated flow that he has, you can do this at the push of a button.

31:44
I don’t think I’m doing it justice actually, or I’m describing it very well. I don’t know, it sounds fascinating to me. It’s pretty darn amazing using all the AI video tools at your disposal. Yeah, and I feel like, I mean, we’ve been talking about this for a couple years now, but this is the first year I think at Seller Summit that we have a lot of AI components in the talks because I feel like it’s how you are going to stand out from your competitors, is being able to scale quickly.

32:14
being able to implement things quickly using AI, saving money, saving costs, right? Whether it’s like Bernie talking about, you know, having these agents or, you you talking about vibe coding, right? Like it’s just gives you a leg up in so many different areas of your business and the people who are quick to adapt it. Because I will tell you, there are a lot of businesses that do not want to adapt uh with AI at all. They view it as plagiarism. They view it as all these kind of like, I feel like it’s old school, but it’s not even that old. ah

32:44
So I feel like if you can get on the bandwagon and start, know, even if you can take one of the things that we talked about at Seller Summit and start implementing in your business, you’re going to have advantage over your competition. Since we’re on the topic of AI, we’re going to be talking about how to be like a one man content machine. We already talked about the importance of creating video, creating creatives and whatnot. So I mean, these are all forms of content that you need to be churning out.

33:12
Problem is, and this has been a big hurdle with students in my class, they’re like, how do I stay consistent? How do I create this content without just driving myself nuts and having this consume my entire life? So Chris Schaeffer is gonna be giving this talk. How to use AI to not only magnify the content that you create, but also how to create a really good routine with AI augmenting what you’re doing to be very consistent with your content creation.

33:41
Chris Schaeffer, Seller Summit OG. OG. He always gives a fantastic talk. I actually think if you remove you and I from the equation, he is the only speaker who’s given a talk every single year at Seller Summit. Is that right? Yeah. Even the first year? Yeah, he gave a talk the first year. I’m pretty sure he did. He came the I know he came the first year, but I think he gave a talk the first year too. um So yeah, true OG and Chris Schaeffer.

34:08
Also, we had a conversation last night about Lars. Lars is not speaking, but our good friend Lars will be there. Another one of our OGs. My daughter told me that he was her favorite Seller Summit attendee last night. Is that right? Yes. She thinks he is. I mean, no matter what Lars is up to, is like always has so much good feedback for whatever you’re doing. Very honest, does not pull any punches, which is great. So anyway, he refuses to speak for us anymore.

34:38
but that’s okay, because he still attends and that’s good. And speaking of like feedback, let’s talk about Reddit. We’ve never done a Reddit talk before. Everyone can talk feedback uh about your This is one actually I was kind of hesitant to have, but I think it’s necessary. These days when you do a search in AI, it mentions a whole bunch of Reddit posts. So if you were to go to ChatGBT,

35:06
and you were to ask it best standing desks, and then you would click on the sources button. I would be willing to get guess that 30 % of the citations, the sources for the citations for the answer is from Reddit. And there’s this like whole community of people who are gaming Reddit to get mentioned in the LLMs, which is the name of the game right now. I believe Reddit is mentioned or cited 40 % of the time for

35:35
e-commerce searches now, which is pretty nuts. And basically this talk is going to teach you how to get mentioned in Reddit without getting banned by Reddit. Yeah. Well, yeah. And it also reminds me of the fact that one one time one of my clients said, hey, there’s a whole subreddit about my business. Is that good or bad? And I was like, depends.

36:01
Yeah, and we are we are having someone come who knows a little bit about bad press in their business um Yeah, this would be like a really fun talk uh Dave Bryant of ecom crew. We’re trying to get Mike to come out too. Yes, but uh He’s learned a lot of lessons from this failed launch I don’t want to give too much away. It’s just a very interesting story I don’t know. How do you put it?

36:31
So I think it’s, what because uh I like to joke with people that like all press is good press, but that’s not true. Bad press, bad press can really hurt your business. um And there’s definitely the right way to handle it and the wrong way to handle it and what you can learn from, you know, the whole experience. And so I think I I actually love the talks that are like this is everything that went wrong.

36:57
Because I feel like so often people get up and are like, my business is amazing. I sold for two billion dollars. I’m living my best life. And it’s like if you’re, you know, in the first three or four years of e-commerce, you’ve probably experienced, especially right now, you’ve experienced all sorts of you’ve had the ups and downs of a pandemic and then tariffs and, you know, elections. And so it’s sometimes it’s like, oh, hey, let’s have a realistic talk about like, hey, when things don’t go exactly your way.

37:26
If something bad happens, like this is what happened and this is how we handled it and this is what we would do differently, right? Next time around or maybe they do everything the same. Yeah, actually, the talk is really about how to launch a brand. Yeah. But he’s framing it in such a way like all the mistakes that he made, what not to do and what to do. So it should be really good. Yeah, I’m excited. Although I’ve I’ve heard it a million times. I still well, I don’t think you know all the little details. I probably don’t.

37:54
It depends. Then I will be giving the closing keynote this year. I know. You’re ruining my whole event. um I’ll have to be thinking about it for three days. I usually give myself the first talk of the event so I get it over with. Oh, yes, that’s right. You’re to be last. Yes, I’m going to be last. Saving the best for last.

38:22
I do know what I’m talking about, but I don’t think I’m gonna share it. You’re not gonna share it, okay. I think it’s gonna be, I mean it’s not like a surprise, you know, someone jumping out of a birthday cake level surprise, but I think it’ll be a good closing wrap-up of this year for sure. Okay, well I can’t wait. Yeah, well we’ll see. do a little bit every day on it. That’s kind of my, has been my goal. Oh, that’s, yeah. I don’t operate that way, I just like,

38:52
pump out the whole thing. I don’t operate that way either, but I was like, can’t be pumping this out the week before the event. I have too much other event stuff going on. If I did that, it would be me getting up there and telling you everything that went right and wrong with the event. You know, what’s funny is I was debating whether to give like three talks this year because there’s like so much stuff that I’ve been working on this year. But I don’t want to kill myself either and make myself a nervous wreck the entire time.

39:19
No, and the one thing we didn’t get to talk about, which I wanted, we’re like close on time here, but we didn’t really talk about the masterminds. Oh yes. And I’m excited because this year for uh the content masterminds, so we have a couple masterminds at Seller Summit, and one of the masterminds that we introduced a few years ago was the content mastermind, and this is for people who really want to focus on content creation to help grow their brand. So while it is still e-commerce focused, it’s not like, you know, completely outside of that.

39:48
It is definitely we talk a lot about YouTube and TikTok and social media and you know all the different channels you can use to put content out there. And last year our friend Danan was in my mastermind in the content mastermind. And after the content mastermind he pulled me aside and he was like hey that was really great I loved it you know this and that. He’s like I have some ideas for next year. I was like perfect I love I love feedback. And he

40:17
He is one of those people who, he reminds me of a lot like Chris Schaefer and that they’re always testing like 10 things at once. Like, I’m starting five YouTube channels and this channel I’m doing four videos a day and this channel I’m doing four videos a week and this channel I’m doing four videos a month and this channel, know, he’s always got like all these things going on. And so he said, you know, I’m doing all this stuff and he’s like, and I have these spreadsheets and I’m tracking things and can I give those away to people in your content mastermind next year?

40:43
Can I give my whole process of how I was like, no, no, we definitely hate when people get free stuff at seller summit. ah So anyway, he’s actually going to be leading the content mastermind this year. Awesome. And going through all of this testing he’s been running for the past couple of years, he has multiple e-commerce brands as well as content brands. So I’m excited for that because I feel like it’s going to be especially and he’s doing almost all video focused stuff. So uh ton of experience and uh

41:13
He was even nice enough to share his first video he ever made, which if you are someone like us who’s been making video a long time, you never share the first video you made, because it’s so bad. And so he’s like, yeah, this is where I started and this is where I am today. And like huge, phenomenal improvement. so he knows this stuff and he’s really been very generous with what he’s gonna do in that content group this year. So I’m super excited. And that’s actually almost full.

41:40
So if you are on the fence about that one, I think we only have two seats left in that. So, oh, Okay. Yeah. And then we’re also running the e-commerce masterminds. Uh, we have two tiers, one, if you’re making over a million bucks and one, if you’re doing over 250 K and, uh, it’s gonna be the same style a year, sorry, a year. Yeah. Uh, breaking up into groups of 10 or 12. And what we do is we just sit in a room and help each other with our businesses, hot seat style.

42:10
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s always been good. It’s it’s the highlight of the event for a lot of people. It’s also a great chance if you’re a little uh shy to get to know a group of people really well, because you’re literally in a room for eight hours. Yeah. You get to know each other well. And then when the event starts, you guys are already like really good friends. Yeah. And I I’ll quote Chris Cody one more time. He texts me. Well, we text.

42:37
frequently, but he texts me about once every six months. So he came to Seller Summit several years ago, was in a mastermind with Dana Jean-Zemes, and he texts me about every six months thanking me for putting him in that group and letting me know that she has changed his life so dramatically in a positive way. And he’s not the only person I hear that from, but he’s the best at giving me like every six months a little text thank you.

43:01
And it is true a lot of people’s lives have been changed dramatically just from that one day mastermind Because they changed the direction of their business. They decided to sell they decided to buy, you know, it’s a variety of things right everyone comes out with a different takeaway from those but uh Definitely business or life-changing in those groups. I mean there’s been Groups that have formed during those masterminds that have been meeting for years. Yeah. Well think about our friend Natalie who

43:30
came to, I think her first seller summit was 2017. She was- to all of them, I thought. She was an OG, wasn’t she? She did not come to the first one. Oh, she didn’t go to the first one. So she came to the second one, and we didn’t have masterminds in the first year. So second year, she came to a mastermind. She was in the 250,000 mastermind, and she told me in that mastermind, my goal is to get to the million dollar mastermind. She hit that goal a couple years later, was in the million dollar mastermind, and then actually was a speaker.

43:56
at Seller Summit talking about influencer marketing and then just recently exited her business, which was kind of her goal, I think, for a long time and got to the point where that was a smart decision for her. So and kind of watching her through all the Seller Summits ah and all the phases is just very rewarding and exciting. She’s not the only one, but she’s probably the one that most of you guys know, because she’s very outgoing. So if you’ve been to a Seller Summit, you definitely know Natalie. And then we actually have a Discord community for Seller Summit this year also.

44:26
In the past we didn’t have that because Discord was, thanks to vibe coding, like I’m a master of Discord now and there’s a lot of cool things you can do with it. So you’ll get a chance to keep in touch with everyone that you’ve met outside, form your own groups and just keep in touch. Hope you enjoyed this episode. What’s happening right now is probably the biggest shift in e-commerce that I’ve experienced in a very long time.

44:53
More information and resources go over to mywifecoderjob.com slash episode 627. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you wanna hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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626: The Content Strategies That Will Die In 2026 (And What’s Taking Over)

626: The Content Strategies That Will Die In 2026 (And What's Taking Over)

In this episode, Toni and I share our bold predictions for what’s coming in the content creation world in 2026 and why the strategies that worked last year might not work anymore. We break down the shifts weโ€™re seeing, the trends that are about to explode, and what you need to start doing now to stay ahead of the competition.

What You’ll Learn

  • Why Blogs And Affiliate Marketing Is Dead
  • Why Clickbait Mass-content Won’t Cut It
  • The Future Of AI Driven Content

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. In this episode, Tony and I share our bold predictions for what’s coming in the content creation world in 2026 and why the strategies that worked last year might not work anymore. We break down the shifts that we’re seeing, the trends that are about to explode and what you need to start doing right now to stay ahead of the competition. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com.

00:27
And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical, step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate.

00:54
We cap attendance at around 200 people so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:30
Welcome to the My Wife, Quitter, Drop podcast is the beginning of the year. So what I thought we would do today is talk about our predictions for 2026 in the content creation space. I’m excited. I feel like content creation has made a resurgence. You know, I’m excited and I’m also a little apprehensive at the same time because I’m seeing these trends, especially with AI kind of taking over the creator economy. And, yeah, I’m curious what you have to say about it, too.

02:01
I mean, AI has already affected my businesses in a fundamental way, right? Yeah. My blog, I think every blog in my blogging mastermind has been essentially decimated by AI. Yeah. My thing with AI right now is that it’s so hard to know what to believe. Yes. Right. Like I feel like when I’m watching something, especially because like, OK, we’re talking it’s the beginning of the year, NFL is in the playoffs. A lot of coaches have been fired. Right.

02:29
I think there’s like seven coaching vacancies and there’s all these like TikToks and Instagram reels where it’s like the coach. But it’s like, is that actually him talking? Is that AI? Like, it’s hard to tell like what’s real and what’s not, which I think is my biggest problem with AI and how it’s changing, like how people create content. I mean, from a creator perspective, what I’m more worried about is less that aspect of what to believe and what doesn’t, because that doesn’t really affect me.

02:55
What affects me are these guys that I’m seeing on YouTube and like these acquaintances that I hear about that have like hundred AI channels pumping out like 20 pieces of content a day, which means just by sheer volume, you’re going to get diluted out. Like if there’s enough of those guys out there and I’m seeing all of these courses from people teaching faceless AI generated content where they had these automations where literally

03:23
you have AI write the script, you hit a button, and then it just pumps out all these videos that automatically get broadcast to all the platforms, shorts, reels, TikToks. And so you get enough people doing that. And if you’re a real creator putting out good stuff, you’re still gonna get drowned out, right? I don’t know. So I think I talked about this on one of the podcasts we recorded before the break, but I told you that my son created a TikTok channel, right?

03:51
where he’s, and it’s AI generated cartoons, right? So he’s writing the scripts. He’s coming up with the ideas. Well, one month ago yesterday, he launched on Instagram. And it’s kind of funny, because my kids all grew up on social media, right? We used to do a lot of publicity and TV. And so they all pretty much have shunned social media. Most of them don’t really like to be on it.

04:16
Aside from like personally, so he’s my first kid that’s like actually kind of taken it and run with it It’s like, you know, maybe I can make this into something And so he started on Instagram a month ago and he when he started I said hey, you know Instagram’s a much slower growth than tick-tock, right? It’s gonna take you a while, you know, cuz he doesn’t have a platform. He has nothing right? So yesterday he hit a hundred K on Instagram Wow in one month nice and what this tells me is that

04:45
really clever content still wins, right? Because the stuff he’s putting out is really clever, right? It’s interesting, it’s funny, it’s different, right? So he’s got an angle and I feel like a lot of times with like he’s using AI to help him as far as like generate the videos, you know, cause it’s all animated, but outside of that, like the scripting and everything else is his ideas. And so I think ideas still win and I don’t think AI can trump that right now. Now.

05:13
Not to say that it can’t in the future because I feel like AI just gets better and better. But I think cleverness and, you know, an angle still works regardless. But it’s harder because you’re right, there’s so much content out there that’s just being like massively generated every single day. You really you can’t just be average anymore. You’ve got to be really good. I mean, I agree with your assessment and all these platforms are actually doing a good job of, you know, rating these people and only delivering

05:42
content that’s actually enticing that people want to watch. I guess the problem is if there’s just too much volume for these algorithms, someone still has to swipe and you still have to get data, right? But if it gets to the point where it’s like uh 1,000x what it is today, there’s going to be just too much content for people to swipe through and there won’t be enough data and everything gets diluted. I don’t think that’s going to happen in 2026, but if this continues in the coming years of everyone doing automations,

06:11
It’s going to get to that point, which is why I kind of like China’s law, which which we discussed in a previous episode where you can only put out content about finance, health and law if you have some sort of credential. So I think this is um we were just talking about our friend Tiffany Ivanovsky, but another person that is start is doing this well right now is Jeff Rose. um You know, he’s like revived his Facebook page or his Facebook channel. I don’t really know what they call it anymore, but. um

06:39
I think having that shareable or commentable content is where I think you can stand out from just the massively produced AI content. uh

06:50
Jeff Rose is doing that. To me, he’s a little too click-baity controversial, but whatever, it’s working, right? Because he’s like, would you tip? And he shows a receipt, and it’s like, no tip. And everybody has an opinion on whether you should tip or not, right? And he’s posting content like that that people are sharing and commenting. Tiffany Iovinovsky does the exact same thing, right? She posts a piece of content um that she knows people are going to um comment on and share. uh

07:18
She’s much less controversial. She’s more funny, right? She gets like the humor angle of it and incorporates all of her family’s like crazy adventures. um And I think that’s why my son’s stuff is doing well, too, because if you look at like the amount of likes, comments and shares that his stuff gets, like that’s why his channel has grown so quickly. Right. Because he’ll put out a video and it’ll get 4000 shares. Right. And it’s really hard to do that with like AI generated, just generic content. Yeah. Because people aren’t people just don’t share that stuff. Right.

07:48
It’s not interesting. I actually just had Jeff on the pod. His episode hasn’t come out yet, but your son could make like 40 to $50,000 a month doing that. Yeah, I know. We’re working on it. We’re working on it. you just have to get approved. Like, I’m trying to get approved right now to do that. I just submitted mine too after we talked about that. uh I did that the other day. um Yeah, he totally could. um He could do it. But what’s funny for him is that it’s open doors for like really interesting partnerships with people. um And because he’s doing like

08:16
Bible history, which is such a strange topic, right? To just go viral on. um He’s had conversations with archaeologists and historians that, because he’s doing all, he’s like all I do all day at work, because he works in a restaurant and he works in the back of house, so he listens to podcasts on historical archaeology digs. So he’s educating himself all day long on all this information.

08:42
and then matching up history with documentation and then making it funny. Right. So he’s basically taking information that’s like pretty hard. Like none of us are going to read the Dead Sea Scrolls. Right. But he’s he’s reading them and learning about him and then breaking them down and making them entertaining and interesting. And I feel like that angle, I don’t think will ever die. Like, I think that is interesting. You know what I mean? And I think that’s honestly why.

09:07
you have had the success that you’ve had is that you are really good at taking complicated information like how to start an e-commerce business, right? There’s like, there’s a million people offering a course on that, right? But you’ve taken it and made it a lot more simple for people to understand. You’ve broken it down step by step. You tell the truth to people. You’re not trying to be like in a Lamborghini with a money gun. um And so I think if you can still do that with any topic, you can have success because

09:35
That’s what I think AI doesn’t do. It does break down things so you can understand them, but then doesn’t represent them in a way where I feel like people can really resonate with. Have you ever wondered what your business is actually worth? Well, I worked with Quiet Lake Brokerage for over a decade. And one thing that I learned over the years is that most sellers wait way too long to find out the answer to that question. When I sold one of my businesses through them, I was surprised by how little I knew about what it actually takes to prepare a business for sale.

10:04
And Quiet Light doesn’t just list businesses and hope for the best, they prepare them properly and the difference in the outcome is huge. Buyers are looking for very specific things. If your financials aren’t clean or if your documentation is a mess, you’re leaving serious money on the table. And most sellers have no idea what those things are until it’s too late to fix them. And I’ve watched this play out across multiple deals. Now getting a valuation isn’t really about the number, it’s about understanding what makes your business valuable to someone else.

10:32
and what’s currently killing that value. And that information is worth having whether you’re selling next month or in five years. Now I’ve trusted QuietLight with my own businesses and if you’re building something you might want to exit someday, talk to them right now. Find out what needs fixing while you still have time to fix it and go over to quietlight.com for a free valuation.

10:53
Yeah, totally. And I’ve been just really shocked after talking to Jeff about the ends that Facebook’s willing to pay for now. Yes. What you were telling me is insane. It’s insane. know it’s insane. I’m trying to get approved. It’d be pretty easy because he walked me through his strategy on the pod. Yeah. And it’s pretty easy to pull off. I figure I guess there’s two forms of content like the ones that I’ve been putting out has been ones that

11:20
give me influence, meaning like people sign up for the class and whatnot. What Jeff is doing doesn’t necessarily give him influence, right? Because it’s just like funny memes, but it gives him a lot of cash. So. Well, and he’s on like the hot button topics, right? And it’s like all this stuff that you see, like, obviously I just got back from traveling, but like the hot button topic in travel is do you give up your airline seat for a family to sit together? Right? Like that is.

11:48
Every video I see, every piece of content, it’s like, you know, either people complaining that someone didn’t give up their seat or someone complaining that they got asked to give up their seat. Right. But everybody has an opinion on this. Right. Every single person in the world has an opinion on whether you should give up your seat or not. And it’s like if you want to get people to, like, engage and share and tag their friends and talk about it and go back and forth in the comments, you have to be, you know, and that’s like what Jeff has done really well is he finds those types of topics.

12:17
Because everyone has them, right? Like my biggest pet peeve in traveling is people who stop at the top of stairs or an escalator, right? And they just stop and like open up the map. And I was like, maybe don’t stop right in front of the top of the escalator. Like if I posted that, it would get a thousand comments, right? Of like other people’s pet peeves of how people walk around in another city. So. And that’s what it takes. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

12:41
Or just be a crazy expert, right? Like I always follow the plastic surgery people who are like, did Bradley Cooper have plastic but those are interesting too, right? They are interesting, but like, know, but that’s, that’s once again using like kind of what you’re doing, your expertise to make commentary, right? On things and teach people. So I think there’s still two ways to go about it. Okay. So the next thing I want to talk about are podcasts and video podcasts. I think we’ve reached peak podcast.

13:09
OK, but did you see what was the award show Golden Globes? Was that what just happened with Nikki Glaser? Yes. Yes. I think that was Golden Globes. They entered this year. This year was the first year they had a category for best podcast. Yeah, that’s how you know, you like everyone in their month. So I went to a couple of events recently and everyone wants to start a podcast, not not a YouTube channel, but like a podcast. Yeah.

13:38
And I was chatting with this one person. I’m like, you realize that podcasting is way harder to grow than a regular YouTube channel and arguably less effort. A lot less effort. A lot less effort. I guess it just depends. But if everyone and their mother wants to start a podcast, that’s usually when I think we’ve hit peak podcasts. And everyone and their mother has a podcast now. Yeah. And it’s funny, all the celebrities that are starting

14:08
to have podcasts or also now going on podcasts. Yeah, exactly. Like they’re all interview based podcasts, too. Like Amy Poehler won um the other night for her podcast, which, you know, but here’s the thing. I think the way to grow your podcast, if you have one already or you’re you you made the decision to start, is that I think how Amy Poehler has been successful, other than the fact that she’s Amy Poehler. So like right there, you know, she’s got lots of lots of clout.

14:37
And she can get, I mean, she had Gwyneth Paltrow on, right? So she’s getting like major celebrities. like all the clips that come out, right? The clip I saw yesterday was her and Gwyneth Paltrow talking about how their dream time to eat dinner is 6 p.m. so that they can be in bed at eight, right? And it’s like, once again, hundreds of comments, super relatable. Gwyneth’s like, I like to be the first person in the restaurant. She’s like, and if I can be in bed at eight? And Amy Poehler’s like.

15:04
That’s the dream, isn’t it? Like, they’re just like, but you know what I mean? But like, I didn’t listen to the whole podcast, right? But that clip has, you know, a hundred thousand likes and, you know, and that’s how people are, are, you know, making their podcasts work. I don’t know how many people actually sit and watch the entire. I mean, people still do. My kids, my kids all listen to podcasts, right? Yeah, there’s just so many. So I listen to a podcast every time I run. the ones I listen to tend to be about like an hour and a half, two hours.

15:34
Yeah. And I mean, how many podcasts I run two or three times a week. How many podcast episodes can I listen to? Right. Very many. Not very many. And the number of podcasts out there, interview shows, if you can get someone huge on your podcast, then yes, of course. But if you’re just starting out, like with an interview podcast of just people that no one knows, I think it’s going to be really hard at this point. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah.

16:01
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16:30
just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. I mean, I’ve been podcasting for over a decade, so I already have like an established base, but if I were starting all over today, I probably would not go to the podcast route, unless I had some very special angle and or access to like, know, people who have a large audience.

16:59
Yeah, actually, my son called me yesterday. He’s like, I think I’m going to start a podcast. And I’m like, that’s how you know you’ve reached peak. I know. And I’m like, I’m like, dude, you started doing this two months ago and now you’re like, you know, internet famous. You got to calm down a little bit. oh But yeah, I mean, but he like wants to do one on like, you know, historical, like all this stuff. And I was like, you know what? I think there’s still space for those types of things. Yeah, I think that would work because that’s something that’s random. I’m just talking about like your old interview based show that everyone, their mother’s doing.

17:29
Exactly. But I still you know, it’s funny, even with all of that, we know people who watch podcasts on their TV at night instead of Netflix. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, crazy to me. And the other conversation I had with someone the other day was, know how when you’re browsing shorts and just the sheer amount of content that’s out there these days, like I’m not really loyal to anybody.

17:56
Right. Yeah. someone flashes by, like I don’t go out and seek all their content, just watch it. I’m just like blindly scrolling now. And I literally have to see someone maybe 20 times before I even remember who they are as I’m scrolling. I’m definitely very unloyal, except for, you know, unless you get sucked in. Right. There’s always the and that’s that’s once again going back to like, what are you doing? It’s so interesting or so captivating. Yeah.

18:24
Remember the lady? Of course, we we always laugh when we try to do this because we have such different tick tock algorithms. But like the lady who did the folding laundry, she like taught people how to remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she just got married. Right. And I like did I watch go through every single wedding tick tock? Oh, yes, I did. Right. Like because I was so invested in her from her laundry days. Right. But for the most part, I’m going to scroll by anything like that. So you’re right. You’ve got to really have an interesting.

18:52
I mean, even full length YouTube videos that I watch, like, I watch it just for the topic, but like, it’s very few people that like actually grab me where I actually want to check out like the rest of their channel. And even same with the podcast, I find myself listening to podcasts now because of who’s on and not necessarily because of who the actual show is. Yeah. Right. Who belongs to, because again, I think we’re just getting to this point where just so much content out there.

19:22
The other thing I’m getting kind of tired of and I’m hoping this prediction will come true. Like on my TikTok feed and my Instagram feed, it’s every third person is pushing some product. Yes. I don’t know if your feed is like that. And it’s gotten to the point where I don’t think any of this stuff is genuine at all. I don’t like it because I feel like back back in my day, like.

19:48
When I talked about a product, it was because I had used it, I liked it, I was willing to vouch for it, but there’s a product in my feed all the time, and here’s how I know that they have shipped it to every celebrity. Bethany Frankel is doing it, as well as Shawn Johnson, the gymnast, right? And it’s some liver detox, get your cortisol, it’s totally the menopause level stuff that’s in my feed. But I’m like.

20:14
These you’re telling me these two different people use this product and this is like why like no you’re fit because you’re a gymnast and you’re fit because you have like great genetics and you also probably eat two avocados a day. Right. So like you know I don’t know that to me I agree with you. I think it’s such overkill. I don’t trust anything that comes out anymore especially from like bigger creators. And then occasionally I’ll see something that’s AI and it’s very well done.

20:43
but it’s pitching some product also. uh This is probably happening more on TikTok, because I guess I’m more on TikTok than I am on the other platforms. But if it gets to this point where everyone’s putting out, getting paid to pitch something, and then you use AI to have like a human fake pitch something, no one’s going to believe anything anymore. And just the whole influencer economy is just kind of going to go to crap. At least we’re pitching. I wouldn’t be mad about.

21:13
I would not be mad about, but I don’t know how you fix that problem, right? Yeah. Like, how do you get real, genuine reviews of a product? Yeah, I don’t I don’t know anymore, honestly. Like, I feel like I don’t know. I definitely that’s one of those old, like, nostalgic. I miss the old days where it’s like when when someone was talking about a product, it’s because they actually cared about and used it. And, you know, even though I fought so hard for like creators to be paid right and for like to

21:43
Fairly like, you know, we talked about the day that, you know, I got a free Twinkie for posting about Weight Watchers Twinkies. Like I don’t want to go back to that. Right. Where it’s like, hey, create four well edited, greatly produced videos for a box of, you know, snacks. But yeah, I don’t know how you combat that, especially as I’m saying the influencer economy is dead. mean, if you have someone who has like a good reputation. Yeah. I mean, it’ll still work like.

22:11
Me, for example, like I don’t ever take on those things. Yeah. Right. So if I say I like a product, I’m willing to stake my reputation on it in general. You know, for that product. And it’s definitely not dead because like so Shalene, um who she you know, she doesn’t she does some sponsored stuff, but a lot of times she’ll be like she’ll post a picture and she’s like, I got these shoes on Amazon. Right. And you go click. You can’t buy those shoes on Amazon anymore. Like they sell out. Like if she talks about a product.

22:41
It’s gone, right? And there are people like her that like, know, Bethany’s another one where she does a lot of sponsored stuff, but also she’s like, hey, got like, I’m wearing these pants right now that I bought on Amazon because she talked about how great they were. And I was like, these are like, look cute. They’re like travel pants. Right. And, know, I went and bought them. I was so excited they were still in stock because most of the time when she talks about something and you go to click on it, if you’re not watching the video in the first 30 minutes, you can’t get the product, especially on it, especially an Amazon product.

23:11
I mean, so that’s the type of influencer marketing. Yeah. And again, I think AI has just made everything just so much worse. Yeah. Because there’s entire platforms out there that are designed for you to use AI avatars to pitch your products in e-commerce now. Right. Yeah. So I’m guessing like a lot of these shop owners are like, hey, why do I need to pay so much money for these influencers anymore? Right. Especially since the whole influencer economy does not really depend on how many subscribers you have anymore. Right. It’s based on how good the content is.

23:41
And so if you can create the content with AI, why bother hiring these influencers? Yeah, we’ll see. Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. The other thing that’s been on my mind at least has been this uh Gemini summarize button on YouTube videos. I’m not sure if you’ve played around with that. I have. I’ve seen it. I’ve not played around with it yet. So these days, and this is just something that that’s happened to me.

24:08
I actually don’t watch most YouTube videos anymore. You just have Gemini summarizing. I don’t actually use Gemini. That button actually doesn’t work that well just yet if you’ve tried it. Cause you can’t like tell it exactly what you want out of it. So I’ve been using this YouTube plugin, not YouTube plugin, it’s a Chrome plugin that just sends the entire transcript over to ChatGBT. And you can have these set prompts where it just gives you everything in like a bullet pointed list. Yeah.

24:36
So if I see like a 20 minute video or 25 minute video, I’m always thinking to myself, man, there’s no way I want to sit through this video. I just want the guts. Right. And so it just spits out the summary in ChatGPT. And that’s good enough. So we talked about this like two years ago. Do we really? Well, no, we talked about the summarize, the summarize factor. Right when AI was like starting, people were like,

25:04
really getting into it and we were talking about how we used it and I said that my brother was using it to summarize my mom’s text to the group chat, right? Because she often will send like boomer text, right? Like super long informational and like nobody has time to read all this. Like so he would summarize everything in like, I think it was probably chat GBT back then and then like send it to me and my sister. So we were like, oh, her neighbor’s having surgery. You know, she went to someone’s house for dinner or whatever.

25:32
But I feel like this is just like the next generation of that, right? Like who has time to watch a 20 minute video when you can summarize it? So my question then is, if you are making content, right, on YouTube, like how do you make content that people don’t want to summarize so they watch your video? Well, see, that’s what got me thinking that because a lot of my stuff is yours is very summarizable. It’s teaching content, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So.

26:00
maybe I need to switch up my strategy this year and just make it more entertaining in some way. And I know you’re laughing. Like, what are you going to do? I don’t know. Maybe it can be something in a delivery, maybe more like Asian jokes. I don’t know. Or something. Asian jokes don’t transcribe well, you know you’ve got it. I’m just trying. I was trying to think about the creators that I actually watch. Yeah.

26:29
all the way through. And it’s usually the ones who are kind of funny or they do like some crazy editing. Yeah, or they uh they’re just entertaining in some way. It’s just hard to describe. And I’ll sit there and watch it. Because I’m thinking about the most videos I watch these days, honestly, are Niners and Warriors videos. Yeah, yeah. And really, it’s just their takes. And it’s usually just like a talking head, right? Yeah. And those are you would think

26:57
summarizable really easily, right? But I actually sit through and watch the whole video and it’s literally just talking ahead with no video, but it’s because like the words they use to describe it, like the teams and the trades and everything that’s going on, that when you send it to a summary, it’s like not as interesting for some reason. Yeah, I mean, it’s funny because I don’t know, once again, our feeds are so different, but there is…

27:26
There’s always these creators that have like five minute TikToks that it looks like it’s this long involved story. Right. And there’s always the first comment in these in these videos are like, let me get to the point for you. And like literally someone has watched. I’ll watch the video so you don’t have to. Right. There’s people who have actually created TikTok accounts that summarize other people’s videos that are away. Yes. And so um they’re like, she went on the date. This happened. Blah, blah. He never called her back. Then she married his best friend.

27:54
And basically they summarize a 10 minute TikTok video into 35, 40 seconds. So people have already been doing this for years, but now AI is doing it instead. um So I don’t know, for me partly I’m like, well, you know what? Hopefully this makes people get to the point quicker because I often don’t like when I’m watching a video and I have to listen to people ramble. That’s what annoys me. um

28:18
It’s like when back in blogging, when everyone was like, Oh, recipes have to have SEO. So like the first 42 paragraphs of a recipe was like talking about their grandmother’s house in Italy and blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, just tell me how many tomatoes. Right. Right. Right. So I feel like in some ways I don’t mind the summary, but in other ways, like obviously as a creator, you’re not going to make money if people just summarize all your videos and don’t watch them. So you’ve got you’ve got to be interesting enough. I don’t even think you have to be entertaining. I think you have to be interesting. I entertaining works, too.

28:47
Yeah, I’m just thinking about, know, because if it’s just pure based teaching content, which is actually something that we’ve pitched for many years, if it’s just pure teaching content that’s easily summarizable, maybe that won’t last like the next couple of years is what I’m thinking. So you have to uh make it interesting in some way. It could be like your delivery. Yeah, could be. It could be any of these very nuanced things that make you stand out. Well, not to pat us on the back.

29:16
But I’m going to, as you know, I love to do. But that’s a lot of feedback we get for the course is that people love our interaction with each other. Right. Like how we usually have very different opinions about things and we joke around a lot. And, you know, we’re not afraid to kind of pick on each other a little bit. And we’ve had people that get very turned off by that. Right. We had we had someone on a webinar once that was like, you’re so mean. Right. You are mean. I am mean. But like.

29:45
You need it sometimes. Someone’s got to bring you down to a real life. Right. But but like the people who watch us regularly think it’s hilarious because they know they know our personalities and they know that, you know, we’re we’re obviously very good friends and we don’t have a mean bone in our body towards each other. Right. Like it’s all in fun and games. But I think that’s one thing that makes people gravitate towards the stuff we do is because they do like that interaction. Right. Which you would never get in a summary. In a summary, wouldn’t make any sense. Right. Yeah.

30:14
So so I think, you know, if you can find that angle right where people are like, oh, but I like the back and forth or I or it’s interesting or I like the tension. Right. Like I’ve for some reason my feet has blown up with like the Dax Shepard Kristen Bell drama, which I didn’t even know there was drama until, you know, basically he interviewed Cher on his podcast and she and Kristen Bell was in the room, too. And she kept like trying to mitigate what he was saying and like

30:43
It was like very much like a very dysfunctional relationship. And so people are like over analyzing the. So now I’m like on this whole quest to like find out what’s wrong with their relationship because I’ve gotten sucked into the videos. But like now I will watch all the interaction between the two of them, because I was like, oh, wait, did she just make an excuse for him? Blah, blah, blah. Like what’s happening? You know, but once again, it’s not not necessarily fun. It’s kind of dysfunctional, but keeps you watching.

31:10
We have totally different feeds. Yes, I know. So here’s one thing that’s kind of excited me a little bit too, is the fact that I was on Netflix the other day and I saw Mark Rober’s YouTube videos packaged in a Netflix um special that was ranking in the top 10. Crazy. And why that excites me is that if you have like a huge YouTube audience and you create, like my videos will never make it, but like if you do entertaining videos. Right.

31:40
Like, places like Netflix will buy you. And like, if you watch, I don’t know if you watch any of those videos in the Mark Rober specials, it’s literally his YouTube videos. It’s his YouTube videos with maybe like a short intro that he recorded, like a 30 second intro, and then it’s just a straight YouTube video. So they’re literally just packaging all of his YouTube videos onto Netflix. And the fact that Netflix is willing to do that makes it pretty exciting because…

32:05
So I don’t know if you remember, it was like five years ago, we did a show called Five Minute Pitch. Yes. And we were actually trying to get on Netflix and Hulu. Oh, because I have a buddy who is who is high up at Hulu. Yeah. And I kind of just asked him, he is like, Yeah, sorry, Steve. But like these shows like Netflix just doesn’t buy stuff like that, especially if it’s like a show where there’s like a winner and the winner has already been announced. So yeah.

32:34
Yeah. But now, you know, if you put together something good on YouTube and it gets a lot of traction, you have a chance of making it on Netflix. Well, you know, it’s it’s interesting because it makes sense, right? It follows the book deal model, right? Because I remember when I was like early in the blogging days, any blogger who got big would immediately get contacted about a book deal.

32:58
Right, because it was so easy for the publishing houses to work with a content creator who had a million visits a month to their website because no just regular person who writes a book can promote like that, their own stuff, right? So it’s kind of the same thing as if you ever look at like the Nielsen ratings and how many people are estimated to watch certain things, it’s amazing how little people watch stuff.

33:21
Right. With a small number. So if you’re like Mr. Beast, right, which he’s obviously an extreme example and he’s got his own TV show and everything now. So but like it’s much easier to work with a content creator who already can like promote everything and already has the eyeballs than like launching a brand new show where nobody unless it’s got like like Harrison Ford’s in it or something like that. You know, that’s tough. It’s much easier to work with a content creator because they already have the built in audience. Netflix doesn’t have to do any work.

33:51
Absolutely, absolutely. But, know, just even last year, this was kind of unheard of. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and then the other day you on Netflix. Yeah. Right. I’d have to fundamentally change everything up. But that’d be like a bucket list. Maybe one day I will do it and try to make something just kind of more entertaining in general. Um, okay. So the next thing that I was thinking of prediction.

34:18
is that because of AI and all this artificial stuff going on out there, people are gonna start craving like real people. Yep. Is what I’m predicting. uh events, in-person events like the Seller Summit, I think people are gonna start craving that stuff. Oh, absolutely. I think it’s interesting too, because I feel like we’re finally like truly post pandemic.

34:45
Right? And we hear a lot about people like being forced to go back to work and all this stuff. And so it’s like, I feel like, you know, the mind shift is changing again. And so people want to be interacting with people in real life. Right. Not just from behind a screen, not from um not from the way that they’ve been doing it for a while. My fear is that there is a group of people who grew up basically in this anonymous economy, basically.

35:14
Right? I don’t know if you saw the video of the person who was offered $150,000 a year for a job to work remote, but if they were willing to go in the office, it was $250,000 a year. So same exact job, same exact responsibilities, 150 to do it all remote, 250 to go into the office like four days a week. And they were like, no way I would go into the office for $100,000.

35:41
Right? I’m like, well, who are you that you don’t need another hundred thousand dollars a year? I that’s a significant amount of money for. But so I worry about like this small group of people who like kind of came of age during all of this. And I wonder how they will embrace it. But I feel like anybody who’s like 30 plus, like can’t wait to go in person and like get out there. And even my 19 year old, like she lives to go to like all the Comic Cons and stuff like that. And like.

36:09
meet other creators, meet other people that are into the same things that she is. So I think the events will make a resurgence, right? People will wanna be out there, they’ll wanna connect, they’ll wanna have real friendships and meet people, like meet people that they’ve been talking to online that they have never actually seen in person. You know that analogy about working remote and working in person? Like maybe it’s just I’m an old Chinese man now, but.

36:36
Like I could not imagine not working in person on the engineering teams that I worked at when I had a full-time job. You just can’t get anything done remote. It’s easier just to like, I can’t remember like was countless times where I had to walk over to somebody and work together in person on something. So that I would just never hire that person basically. Well, and I feel like that’s the shift too. is people are not like.

37:02
I think remote work is not going to be the same as it was. I think that’s changing, right? um Well, it’s already changed here in the Valley. Everyone’s got to go in at least three days a week. And like they actually monitor badge swipes now too. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. But I think honestly though, the value of going to um an event in general and interacting with people like um last month I went to a wedding in North Carolina.

37:32
and one of our Seller Summit alumni, Chris Cody, who owns Deb Specks, just happened to live in the same town where this wedding was. So we met up for dinner. And just hanging out with him and chatting about our kid, he has a son, chatting about the kids, chatting about he just relocated there. And then talking some business stuff too, right? But I would never have that relationship with him. I would have never met up with him if I hadn’t met him at Seller Summit.

38:01
Right? Like some random person on the internet, I’m meeting, not meeting up with you for dinner. ah But I just, when we were hanging out, I was like, man, I miss like hanging out with people and having conversations and letting the conversation flow because you’re sitting at dinner for two hours. Right. And at the end of dinner, he’s like, we were talking about something. He’s like, I have an idea for you. And like basically told me, gave me a really great idea. And then, you know, we’ve been following up with email and stuff like that. But, you know, I just feel like

38:29
You can’t get all of that online. I think me and you are different. think you’re fundamentally more social than I am. For me, actually, the reason to go to live events is because I feel like the internet is just so noisy. Like my personality is if I can learn it myself, somehow I’ll usually try to do that. But now with like everyone and their mother putting out content, you have no idea who to trust. Right.

38:57
Going to live events is a way for me to get content from people that I trust or strategies and whatnot for people I trust. I mean, the personal relationships to me are very valuable as well. But I personally, for me, I go to events not necessarily to meet people, but to just get like the real story from people who are actually doing stuff. And the friendships just develop. Yeah. But I think that’s basically the same, right? Because

39:25
You want the real story, but you’re never not never. You can get the real story online. It’s not the same. You have to sift through junk to get the real story now. That’s the problem. You know, actually, last week I got a text from our friend Dana Jean-Zemes, who sent me an article. She’s like, I read this. I thought you would really enjoy it. Right. Well, she knew I would enjoy that because of the interactions we’ve had in person, comments that I have made to her, like not thinking about like I’m not trying to impress her. I’m not trying to, you know.

39:54
just like she knows I’ve said things about this article and was like, hey, this might be interesting to you, right? Like that you can’t we wouldn’t have those same conversations online. Yeah. So I feel like you do get the real deal from people. You always used to joke. I remember this was like your your trick back in the day. um The was the trick. You know this trick. You know it. You would hang out at the bar sober.

40:18
Oh, yes, yes, yes. And wait for people to get a couple of drinks in them and then you would get the real scoop on the business or the project or what was going on. know, that still works today. That still works. mean, really, that’s like the best. Actually, if you think about it this way, no one really ever publishes their full playbook online. Right. No, no. I mean, the stuff that really works, people keep tight to the vest. Yep.

40:44
And it’s only through inebriation sometimes that you can get those facts out of somebody. Like I can’t tell you how many things I’ve just learned going to events at the bar, just learning from the bar. uh Or just even numbers, like raw revenue numbers and just the problems that people are having with their businesses. Like I get this on the podcast too, right? Because when we’re not recording, the person I’m interviewing

41:09
just reveals a whole bunch of stuff. I wish I could just record those moments and I could, but like I would feel disingenuous publishing that, right? But what you hear on podcasts traditionally is rarely the full story for anyone’s podcast. It’s kind of like how reality television, like what you see is not really what’s the reality going on behind the scenes. Yeah, and I feel like too.

41:33
um And obviously we have a closed course so like we teach a lot of stuff in that course that we would not share publicly Right because that’s a space of people that you know have paid to be in there We trust them, you know with information But I feel like it’s very similar at events where when you’re having a conversation with somebody after you kind of get The vibe about them, right? You’re like, oh, you know what? I’m gonna give this person the extra nugget of information right that I’m never gonna share publicly I won’t even maybe even share from the stage

42:02
but I will share it with you because it seems like it will help you in what you’re doing and I know that you’re not gonna go blasted everywhere too, right? um And I feel like you only get that impression from people usually when you’ve hung out in person and had like conversations with them and they’ve built that trust. Plus I love hugs, know, that’s the way I feel.

42:26
All right, and the final thing I want to just kind of bring up here, at least what I’m seeing on YouTube, because I watch a lot of YouTube videos as research for my own channel, is that YouTube has a little space now where you can actually ask it, it’s kind of like the search bar, but not really. But you can ask it what type of videos that you want to see and kind of guide the feed. Because you know, you know, with TikTok, like you have no control over anything. Right. But it’s interesting that YouTube has provided a way to kind of control your feed.

42:54
and I find that pretty interesting too. Do you use it? I used it just in the name of just research, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s better than the search bar. The search bar will give you those videos that you’re searching for, but this other one fundamentally alters your feed. you feel like it, did you get what you wanted from it? Like, did you feel like it worked? It worked, however,

43:24
Like it gave me a bunch of creators that so just to be clear, I was looking for like marketing strategies for the year. It gave me a whole bunch of people who I never heard of before. OK. And unfortunately, a lot of those videos that I got were like really spammy. Yeah. Like how I made like a million dollars and, you know, a month doing doing that. So sitting on top of their Lamborghini. No, no Lambo. But like it was like a kid who looked younger than my my children.

43:54
Yeah. Spouting stuff like that. Immediate trust factor zero. Yeah, exactly. Not to say that young people can’t do it, but the trust factor does diminish greatly. um I haven’t tried it. I’ll have to look into it. um total sidebar, but I was on TikTok and I accidentally hit my phone with my finger and I ended up in the stim section of TikTok. So all of sudden all my videos were science related.

44:23
And I was like, wow, how did my algorithm shift so quickly from from celebrity drama to math equations? uh But anyway, yeah, I was like, oh, the algorithm’s broken. So the reason why I think that’s important is because like if you’re on TikTok and you accidentally breathe a little too long on a video, you’re going to get a whole bunch of those same videos. Right. And you want to be able to control that a little bit. Yes. It’s actually a strategy that I think Sabrina from Bloatado teaches.

44:52
um in her uh when she puts out content is basically when you’re starting a new TikTok channel, you actually want to be in the algorithm that your channel would be in. Right. So you want to only like watch and interact with people that would align with the content that you’re going to put out. And that’s how you basically see a new TikTok account, which we’ve done with ours. And it actually has worked. I mean, it clearly works. um But I think your feet is like just all Dax Shepard and

45:22
Kristen Bell. Bell. That’s my personal feed. My personal feed is garbage. I did spend like two minutes on the STEM feed. I felt much smarter. I’m ready to put in my college applications now and we’re good to go. My whole feed is college apps people actually. Well, I told you last year my feed was the kids getting either their exceptions or rejection letters. they felt… Have you ever seen these videos Of course I have.

45:49
Yeah, of course I have. Well, because you hadn’t when we talked about it. And I was like, was like, it’s literally I can’t it’s too emotional. I get like so sad or so happy for these people. Like I am too invested. It’s actually caused more paranoia in our household than not, because there these kids with awesome resumes who aren’t getting into any schools. Yes, they’re like, I’m the president of every club. I have a five point seven GPA. I’ve scored 10 million on the SAT. I’ve helped homeless pets like and they’re like, and we didn’t get into the community college.

46:19
Yeah, so overall, you know, I’m pretty I’m pretty bullish on the creator economy. I just think that some, you know, some changes need to be made, at least to my strategy going forward to to account for AI and like the behavior of the creator of the of the audience. I still think there’s no better time to be a creator. I think the opportunities are out there. And if you have something interesting, you can still grow.

46:47
a successful channel account, whatever you want to do. I’m actually excited about your son’s account. I think he could be making a lot of money. know. I’m very excited to get him off the mom payroll. Just kidding. He’s not on my payroll. but no, just watching his success over the past two months really has has given me like new excitement about content creation. feel like for a couple of years you and I were really down on it. And now I feel like I’m back back up on the content train again.

47:17
Hope you enjoyed this episode. Content is still king, but AI has clearly changed the game. And for more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 626. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go over to sellersummit.com.

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625: The $1M/Month Brand Strategy That Most Amazon Sellers Are Missing with Janelle Page

625: The $1M/Month Brand Strategy That Most Amazon Sellers Are Missing with Janelle Page

In this episode, Janelle Page reveals the brand framework that helped her drive over $475M in ecommerce sales and take clients like Glamnetic from $80K to $3M per month in revenue. She breaks down why getting chosen matters more than getting found, and how to build a brand that makes customers pick you over the competition every time.

What You’ll Learn

  • Why getting chosen beats getting found
  • How to make your differentiation crystal clear to buyers
  • How to converting awareness into consistent customer selection

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, Janelle Page reveals the brand framework that helped her drive over $475 million in e-commerce sales and take clients like Glamnetic from $80,000 a month to $3 million per month in revenue. She breaks down why getting chosen matters more than getting found and how to build a brand that makes customers pick you over the competition every time.

00:27
But before we begin, want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:56
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:25
So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:36
Welcome to the My Wife, Quit or Job podcast. Today I’m excited to have Janelle Page on the show. Janelle was introduced to me by my good friend, Ritu Java. We’ve known each other for over a decade. And anyone Ritu recommends is instantly on my must have guest list. I don’t even have to screen the person. Actually, Janelle didn’t even think that we were interviewing today, recording today, but I was like, yeah, Ritu recommended you, so we’re on.

02:03
She is a much sought after consultant who helps both e-commerce business owners and creators make more money by being known, found and chosen. And she has driven over $475 million in online sales across e-commerce services and coaching. And she has built herself and launched and sold multiple seven figure companies and brands. Just by coincidence, however, I also found out that she helped Anne of Glamnetic, who was actually a

02:32
prior guest on the show, grew her Amazon sales from 80K per month to over $3 million per month. And what’s also cool is that she owns a pickleball company. She’s got a ton of projects, not to mention a family, but today we are going to focus on her framework for growing an e-commerce brand. How’s it Janelle? I’m doing great. So great to meet you in person, Steve. I’ve heard a lot of great things as well. And watch the podcast.

03:01
I even saw the episode with Ann. It’s a great, great job. And I’m sure if everyone’s as cool as you, an incredible community. So I feel honored and privileged to be here today. Well, thank you so much. And I read in your bio that you started in e-commerce since elementary school, but uh how did that lead to what you do today? Yeah, entrepreneurship since elementary, because I’m quite old. Everyone’s probably like, there’s no way they had internet back when she was in elementary.

03:29
Yeah, no, I remember. So my dad was always he taught us to work hard. That’s the thing I always have to say my dad set us up for success, both him and my mom, hard workers, we would collect cans at the lake, we live by a reservoir. And then we’d go recycle and collect the money. And then we’d go to at the same at the time, it’s like a Sam’s Club, you know, our Costco, and we’d buy those blow pops, the big bolt candy, and then we take it to school and we’d sell it to our friends. So we’d make you know,

03:55
20 bucks. That was a lot back then. That’s pre-inflation dollars for stuff I did for a kid. So we were always running little businesses, mowing lawns, babysitting. I even started ironing shirts for the families. I grew up in a religious community where the people would go to church and wear white shirts and ironing. I still to this day hate ironing, but I made good money ironing when I was just in junior high. yeah, I’ve always been one. I love money. I love making money.

04:24
I’m not afraid to say that. I think you can do so much good with money. And it’s been, there was a time in my life where I didn’t have a lot of money. was a single mom with four kids under the age of five and I was hustling like crazy. And so I just know that like when you have money, the stress level is so much less, you know? So yeah, I’m a big fan. already know the answer to your thoughts on this question, but I actually want my listeners to hear it from you or someone other than myself.

04:54
Okay, so how do you feel about doing keyword research on a product, throwing it up on Amazon, and making money that way, and that’s that. Have you ever wondered how much your business is actually worth? Now I sold one of my businesses through Quiet Light, and honestly, just getting that initial valuation changed everything for me. Not because of that number itself, but because of what came with it. My advisor walked me through exactly what buyers would be looking for.

05:23
how I needed to restructure my accounting, what documentation I was missing, the gaps in my financials that might kill a deal before it even starts, and stuff that I really had no idea that mattered when it came to selling a business. And here’s the thing, I wasn’t even ready to sell yet, but knowing what I needed to fix meant that I could actually start preparing and I now had a roadmap. Everyone at Quiet Light has built or sold businesses themselves, so when my advisor told me what needed to change, it was actually coming from real experience sitting across from buyers.

05:52
By the time I was ready, everything was positioned right and we attracted serious buyers. So if you’ve been thinking about selling someday, even if that day feels way far off, just getting a free valuation from Quiet Light will make a huge difference. You’ll learn what you need to fix right now so you’re not scrambling later. And if you’re interested, go over to quietlight.com.

06:20
you know, over a decade and I’ll always present and people will be like, well, I’ve got this product and I did these keyword research. I’m like, I don’t even care what the keyword research is. I’m to create a product that I want, that I love. And then I’m going to build demand for it. you know, like when I, speaking of Glamnetics, and she brought that up, like my whole strategy with them, it was like, let’s build demand off Amazon. Cause then you change the nature of the game because see,

06:46
Amazon’s like a closed ecosystem. There’s only so much keyword searches that exist there and everyone’s fighting over that pie. But what I’m going to do is I’m going to create brand searches on Amazon. And then it’s a defensive game. I just got to make sure I look great there and I defend my position. And those cost per clicks when I’m defending Glamnetic’s keywords are much cheaper than press on nails or magnetic lashes. It’s always been my strategy. I want to create a product that people love. I want to create a brand that will create loyal raving fans.

07:14
And then, you know, the product markets itself and we get to market the solution. I mean, I always think you created a product that solves a problem or helps someone achieve a dream state. So you just got to go out and tell people it’s a distribution now of letting people know about the product and if the product’s really awesome, you’ve got built in distribution because everybody’s going to talk about it. And that is the right way to do things for everyone listening. uh OK, so, you know, we’re at this point right now.

07:41
And I’m sure you’ve seen this in your communities and the people you talk to. Amazon is just getting a lot harder. It’s getting more expensive. Products are just constantly getting knocked off. And all of a sudden, at least in my community, more and more pure Amazon sellers want to start their own brand. And it’s kind of backwards from the way I started out. Like going from Amazon to a brand is much harder than going from a brand to Amazon. So what I want to do today is I want to learn your process.

08:11
of building a brand for product. I know you use words like creating a movement and creating a story behind the product. What is the blueprint for you? Okay, awesome. Well, that’s a great question. And this is pretty much what I feel like I do most days is I got people that started out as Amazon sellers, they are really good at the Amazon game, they know how to find product opportunities and launch them and you know, start ranking and all that jazz. But then they end up like the guy, you know, I always say Central Park with the

08:37
French coat open up and I’ve got the watches and umbrella, all these things. I’m hawking my wares and there’s no like cohesive story. And so if you try to like go generate brand demand, it’s like, well, who are you? Because typically when you create something you think of a person and you’re solving a problem. And then usually that person has other problems like related to the first problem that you solve. And that’s how you kind of launch, you know, complimentary products. And so they’ve kind of not done that. So we usually start with a what’s your hero product or what are you passionate about?

09:07
or we try to get, what’s the story? Most of the time, I mean, that’s what I wanna get to is like, because we didn’t do all this, we kind of have to go back and build that foundation first because every brand has a great story. And it doesn’t mean like, and every brand usually that’s an Amazon seller is like, well, I don’t have a story. And I remember I was working with these two ladies who said the same thing. They had great products on Amazon. They had best seller badges and they were lotions and potions. And they’re like, we don’t have a story.

09:33
Like in five minutes, I’m like, you have a story. You’re not even native to America. Your mom had these herbal remedies, because as children, you guys got rosacea, or was that, yeah, skin Yeah, rosacea, uh-huh, yep. And I was like, so she had these ointments and tinctures that she used, and when you moved to America, your skin condition flared up, because you didn’t have those products. And so you went on like a five-year quest to build them and source and formulate here in the United States. I’m like, that’s an incredible story.

10:02
So I think sometimes we get so close to the project because we’re in it, we can’t see the forest through the trees and we think, well, I’m nothing special. I have this problem myself. I literally like started writing on LinkedIn and I hired a mentor and he was like, there’s so much you can write about. I’m like, what? He’s like, you know so much. I’m like, I cannot even think of one thing I would write about on LinkedIn. You know what I mean? And that’s ridiculous if you think about it, right? And so I’m like, oh, this must be how my founders feel that I’m helping.

10:31
you know, create their brand story. They’re just in the middle of it and they forget how much they know or how special what they’ve done is. So we can, we can create a story for anything and it’s there. It’s just uncovering it, shining it and polishing it up. And that’s usually what the first part starts to look like. And if they truly have disparate products all over the place, it’s kind of like, we call it like trimming down the tree. Like what’s our hero? Where’s our best, you know,

10:55
Path forward. I like to think of it like an arrow or tip of a spear We’ve got to get some traction and go in with the focus and then we can get laser beam focus with that marketing I think the biggest thing is we have to identify the audience and who the product is for and a lot of people don’t want to do that because they get nervous about niching down because let’s say they’ve got a product that they made for dogs, right and it’s like a calming treat and they’ll say well, it’s for every dog and I’m like, well great if we go on Amazon right now there are

11:25
homing treats for dogs. There’s like hundreds. So we’ve got to come at it with a unique story and unique mechanism. Or maybe it’s just for Chihuahuas, you know, for little dogs, like, and they think by doing that, they’re leaving a part of the market and you are, but you’re also gaining traction. like the rock climb. I think we’ve got to get a handhold somewhere, a good one, right? And so if that’s just going to be in the Chihuahuas, we’re going to own that space. Doesn’t mean that’s where we’re going to stay for forever, but we will wrap up.

11:53
the chihuahua space and then we’ll start to expand to other toy dogs or whatever. You know, I’m just, it’s just, you have to go in somewhere. And the classic example where I learned this was when I first started in the marketing industry, I was helping as a copywriter, company called progenics and they had supplements and they were trying to break into like the Arnold, they had a recovery drink, a post-workout recovery. It tasted really great and it actually worked. Usually at the time you had something that tasted great and didn’t work or it worked and it tasted like terrible choc, right?

12:23
So we had two great things, efficacy and taste. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free.

12:52
and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. And so here we are one weekend at the Arnold and the next week we’d be at some rock climbing convention and then we’d be at some jujitsu event and not getting traction at all. And it wasn’t just my idea, me and the director of marketing at the time was like,

13:21
There’s this new sport in California. It was called CrossFit. It was just getting started, a little event at the Cucamonga Ranch. And we went to the event and we kind of owned it. Like there was nobody else in the space and we thought, let’s go all in on CrossFit. And I remember the meeting that we had. I remember we decided it and that focus right there, it gave us laser beam focused marketing. Now we knew exactly what events we were going to be at. We were going to be at every CrossFit event. We knew what magazines we’d advertise in.

13:50
We knew the language we would speak because CrossFit, they don’t do workouts, they do wads and they don’t go to gyms, they go to boxes and they don’t do like a traditional workout. There’s, know, Fran and Murph. And so we got the language and then we were able to paint this picture that we made supplements for CrossFitters, nobody else. And this was made just for them. And if you’re someone that’s into your body and peak performance and you find out there’s a brand that made and formulated a product just for you and they locked down all the athletes, I knew exactly.

14:19
who I needed to now try to get under contract for my athlete strategy. It was every pro level, um top and rising CrossFit athlete. And then I built out an amateur program because you want to get all the young kids too, right? And so it’s just that kind of focus that allows you to dominate a market. now for Janice, know, millions of dollars later, we’ve branched out and we own surf culture, we own spearfishing and like yoga, like, but we couldn’t have done that initially. It’s like those people who say,

14:48
You’re an overnight success and we all know there’s no overnight success. You missed all this seven years of grind, of me up late night doing all these things and you see now like Janelle everywhere or something like that but that’s not how it started, right? Yes. oh You know what’s funny is not too long ago I was actually at Home Depot looking for oil to oil our sewing machine and there was like the whole shelf of like lubrication oils and whatnot but then the one I bought it actually said four sewing machines.

15:18
And if you look at the ingredients, it was the exact same ingredients of like a quarter of the shelf. So just those two words caused me to buy it. And that’s just an illustration of what you’re talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s like you knew you wanted sewing machine oil that said sewing machine oil. It was exact match. I mean, this is a little strategy I did um doing a contract with Amazon ads and I’m doing some um content for them teaching like ways you can do better on your headline ads. And one of them like the simplest hack

15:47
and I’ll put this on LinkedIn in a couple of weeks and go into more detail. But it’s like when your customer types in like, glamnetic nails, like that’s, I won’t use a brand example. I’ll do something like Halloween nails. Your headline ad should say Halloween nails in it because there is this psychological switch that thinks, oh, I typed in Halloween nails. This is Halloween nails. You know, instead of saying like spooky nails, which is cute and fun, but I was in my mind, I don’t want to have to make that processing leap to

16:16
Halloween nails, spooky nails, oh, you know what mean? It doesn’t feel like, oh, that’s me, that’s what I wanted. So just little things like that, buyer psychology, fascinating, you know? So I wanna know your process, because I have a lot of people that come up to me and they say, hey, you I don’t have a story, I sell these really boring, generic products on Amazon, like how am I gonna make sales in my own store or create a brand? What is your process for extracting that information out of your clients? It’s the interview style, just like this.

16:46
It’s like two weeks ago, a guy who’s like told me those exact words. It’s boring. I worked in the TV mount space for all these years installing for like RC Willie or whatever. And I just, you know, was like these, these mounts suck. And I’m like, already fascinated. Can you already tell this is a story? You know, he’s like,

17:06
And so, you know, I’d sit here and I was like, try to like screw their big TV mount into like their pillar out on their patio and it just wouldn’t grab. then, you know, it’d only be flat. And I thought, wonder if he could angle this. then he basically goes home like for two years, he’s tinkering with how to build better mounts that can like slide back, come around crane attached to any surface and not have to make big holes. And he’s going on and on. And I’m just sitting there and I just kind of start chuckling. And he’s like, what I’m like,

17:33
This is an incredible story.” And he’s like, this is? I’m like, yes, you basically, he didn’t, he fails to mention he’s an immigrant. He came here with nothing and that’s the only job he could get. He actually was very well educated in his country of origin. Comes here, can’t get employment, gets his green card and all that stuff. So he’s basically taking a menial labor job all those years installing mounts when I think he had like a PhD. I don’t remember that all the details there, but I just thought that’s

18:02
That’s a great story. Can we not all agree here on this podcast? So it really is just start talking to people. I can find a story in anything because people think you have to have an incredible story. And I’m like, every story is the way you tell it. I’m sitting here, I’m talking with animation. I don’t think I’m really the best speaker, but I win the best speaker award. And I think it’s just because I’m animated. I’m excited. People feel the energy. I used to teach high school. very first, that’s what I went to school and I got a degree in

18:31
secondary education. You’re basically an entertainer. mean, teaching history, I thought it was so fun. I got to like talk about dropping bombs and like, this is great. They all hated history by the end of the year, everyone in there, when you ask them what they want to be when they grow up, they want to teach history. I mean, almost forgot about that because that’s the power of a teacher or the power and enthusiasm, know, that energy that you can feel when somebody’s passionate about what they love. And so I’m like, you know, I always say,

19:00
I don’t have to be passionate about things because I like to make money. I’ll shovel a manure because if it pays good, then I’ll be happy about that. I was like, yeah, well, because you’re passionate about making money. That’s where your passion comes from. So I just feel like if someone here and watching this podcast is like, I don’t have a great story. like, why did you start your Amazon store? There’s a story right there. Just like your great story. Why did you and your wife? How did you end up with this podcast? Because she cries a lot. It’s all because she cries a lot.

19:29
You do not want to go to work. You’re going to fix this fast. That’s what men do, right? We’re fixers. I say we are fixers. I’m not a man, but I have been accused of being in my male energy. When because I was a single mom for so long. And this is actually really fascinating. We’ll get we won’t go too off on a tangent, but there’s what they call feminine and masculine energy. And that masculine energy is the fixing energy. And it’s what we that hat I wear a lot.

19:56
but I’ve owned multiple businesses and know, managing employees, it’s like someone comes to you with a problem, you’ve got your like problem solver hat on. But when you come home, we need to learn that sometimes people just want you to listen and not fix, right? That’s more that was the hardest thing for me to change. Yeah. So now I just keep my mouth shut for an extended longer than I think I should. And then that’s so funny. I just told my husband like, when you come to me with the problem.

20:24
If it’s not one you want me to fix, just let me know in advance. Hey, babe, I’m just I’m about to tell you something and I’m not asking you to fix it. I just really want you to listen. And that was a huge unlock for us because then I got to take off the you know, because you’re in business mode all day and take off the I’m not here to solve the problem. I’m just here to listen. And you know, it’s not necessarily a man or a woman thing. It’s that masculine and feminine energy or just like boss mode CEO that we deal with.

20:50
And that is great marriage advice. I thought we’d be talking about e-commerce only, but that keeps relationships together. So Janelle, okay, so we got the story. We got something interesting to say. What is the next step? And this is another pain point I have, you know, people in my class have is it implies you got to create content, right? You got to get this story out there. So what is your advice on that? Yeah, there’s two ways and I can do them both and I enjoy both, but it’s…

21:17
It’s really not rocket science. And I love Alex Hermosy because I feel like he says things now better than I’ve ever been able to say him. He’s got a way of crystallizing and teaching that I don’t know if he knows this, but he’s an incredible teacher. If you can crystallize things down to the simplest form of truth, that’s just really sticky. But I was teaching this before and it’s basically there’s two ways to get distribution. You can either pay for it or you can earn it, earn attention. Right. So paid media, which I love, and then organic, which is slower, but

21:47
It’s also nice to, if you can build an audience, not have to always pay for it. So I do both. And sometimes I get frustrated with organic content because it’s slower. I think it’s got a longer uh ROI and it’s, more sticky over the longterm. build a really loyal audience, whereas you’re kind of churned and burned when you’re paying for attention, but they’re both wonderful. And I would say you do both. So, you know, it depends on what your

22:14
budget is if you have funding, if not, you’re going to earn that with your time through organic content and posting. And what people don’t realize with organic, trying to gain traction and build an audience is it can take up to a year of hard work, a daily posting multiple times a day. And it has to be great content. And you’re not going to start out with great content. uh It’s going to take a while to hone and sharpen that skill. start to see what works.

22:41
sometimes don’t have the patience for that, but I actually really enjoy writing. So I love making content on LinkedIn. I’ve tried video. It just takes a lot more time. got to the studio. It doesn’t work with everything else in my life that I like to do. So, and I’m kind of out of that phase where I don’t have to grind. But if I was like back to Janelle with the four kids under the age of five, and I need to make something work, you better believe I’d be all in on YouTube, creating long form content, educating, you know, I mean, building out those assets.

23:10
And I tell people I’ve worked with YouTubers, creators and launching products with them. They have such a head start because they have the audience, the people know, like and trust them. And it’s now just, OK, what product can we create for them that they’re going to love? That’s true to you because they have distribution built in. So you’re going to have to build distribution or buy it. OK, so back back to like the Amazon example. I’m an I’m an Amazon brand. I want to, you know, build a brand. Do I have to do video?

23:39
is the question I always get asked. Because written word doesn’t work as well anymore. It did once upon a time. Yeah, no. So like if you’re going to do written, you’re going to do founder content, right? That’s going to be you talking and you’re going to need to share pictures people want to see. But if you’re talking about your product, you got to show don’t tell. In fact, if you go to my LinkedIn, if people want to see like I’m always posting like great ad examples and explaining the breakdown or marketing strategy. Like I just broke down Taylor Swift’s life of a showgirl because it was recent she does her

24:08
ingenious launch of her 12th album and all the marketing there, you know, so I like to break things down like that because then brands, or mostly Amazon sellers who really aren’t that strong in brand marketing, they can start to see my goal is to teach you like, look, this is what someone who’s building a brand does. Like who has the biggest brand in the world right now? Taylor Swift, right? So like, here’s her playbook. Here’s how she launches her 12th album. mean, that post alone, I don’t see people

24:36
this is probably the biggest unlock you can have is like taking things that work in other industries and applying it to your own. I mean, that’s huge, right? So go look what Taylor Swift is doing in music. You can apply that in e-commerce. I try to break that down for people. So you are asking like, what can they do? What was the questions if I don’t come back? A of people are actually squeamish about doing video. Oh yeah. Get on video. Okay. Well, you’ve got to, if you don’t want to as a founder,

25:01
at least show your product working. Like I just showed the cat video on LinkedIn, like one of the best product demos ever. If you’ve got a product, if people can see that it works or how it works, that’s half the battle. If you don’t have a product that’s demonstrable, I’m like, I don’t want to invest in it because just of what I know now and how easy it is to gain traction on social media, make video content, like create products that can sell themselves. Like when somebody sees it, they have an aha moment.

25:30
Because the hardest thing with Amazon sellers, and I do feel bad saying this because I know a lot of people probably listening to this podcast, if they’re Amazon sellers, is they probably have a Me Too product. They probably saw something in a category that was like, oh, wow, these shelves are doing great. I’m going to get in in the shelf space and I’ll just make it a little cheaper to ship. And they can’t even tell you why their product’s better. And see, that’s just not, I just would never create a product like that because I know

25:59
you’re basically not able to build a brand off something like that. Okay. That’s actually, that’s a really good point. So there are a lot of people that come to me, they, they found a product and it was good because of the numbers, right? And at the time it wasn’t that competitive. So they listed it, they made a lot of money, but now like everyone started jumping in and all of a sudden they’re selling this product that you, like a hundred that are the exact same thing. Yes. I literally just wrote a post on this brand is your moat is all you have because in today’s

26:27
environment where it’s so fast for people to manufacture what you’ve got and your factories, trust me, I have lots of brands and we have factories and we have uh patent protections, they still knock you off. All right. So if you can build it, so can they. That’s what I always tell people. So you know what? Your only moat is going to be your brand story and how you market and your distribution. And so you’ve got to figure that out. And if you don’t have that,

26:53
I’m sorry, there’s no middleman anymore. So you’re not going to be able to beat the factory on pricing. And this is why I don’t love Amazon as a platform strategy because it’s a price driven platform. So whoever goes there and has the cheapest product and they’re all equivalent will win. Yes. So you’ve got to have the story. You’ve got to be the Patagonia, the North Face, the Gucci. You’ve got to do that. And I have a lot of friends that come to me and be like, I want to start Amazon brand or I want to get into what you do. I’m like, no, you don’t.

27:22
You don’t want to do Amazon. You know, I’m gonna say, if you want to do what I do, then I’ll tell you what I do, but I don’t do Amazon. Amazon is channel for me. And I’m platform agnostic. I don’t care where you buy my product. You can buy it in retail. You can buy it on Amazon. You can buy it on my site. My job as a marketer, as a founder, as a brand creator is to create the demand and the desire. And then you go buy it where and how you will. So back to the content now.

27:50
A lot of people are intimidated. So let’s say you get over the video hurdle. Great. Okay. So they’re willing to create video, but then creating content on a regular basis. Cause a lot of it is consistency. Like we’re both content creators. uh How do you find endless ideas about your brand that you can create like a Tik TOK channel or a YouTube channel or an Instagram Reels channel? Yeah. Okay. Well there’s two things. First, I want to, these are good questions. I want to say one.

28:17
good piece of content can change your business. I used to tell people this and I still do all the time. One good lead magnet, one good funnel can make you millions of dollars. You know, so it’s not like you have to have 15 great marketing funnels. Sure, it’ll be great if you can build up to that, but you really just got to nail one of them. Get that rocking and rolling. And then as you find success in a funnel that works and you start bringing in customers, you get so much feedback from them that you can actually start.

28:46
They write your funnels for you for the next year, your next ads. It’s like you have to, it’s the hardest part. It’s just getting that first initial traction, finding the thing that works. And in order to do that, you have to test a lot. And I meet with people all the time. They’ll say, well, I tried Facebook ads. I tried this video. It didn’t work. I’m like, how many did you try? You know, one or two. I’m sorry. Like I test initially out of the gate, like 20 creatives. That’s just an initial launch. So, you know, when you say how, how many do we need to make?

29:13
We need to make a lot because we need to test. But yeah, you can shorten the timeframe of success by studying what’s working. There’s formulas, there’s frameworks. I guess a good reason to follow people like me or you teaching, you know, is I’m breaking down all the time successful ads, how they’re doing it, what they’re doing. And it’s really like hook the body and the call to action. So if you get them to stop the scroll or you grab their attention and it doesn’t have to be this huge, you know,

29:43
dynamic demonstration, it’s literally just when you understand your audience and what the problem is, you can hook someone by just calling out the problem and showing your product, fixing it. It doesn’t have to be a dramatic displays. What I’m trying to say like, there’s so simple, like, you know, I just that cat ad, it’s on top of my mind, because I just made a video about it on LinkedIn. It shows like I have a cat. And so you know, I hate having cat hair, we got these lint rollers around, I’m always like, you know, get the cat hair off me.

30:11
It doesn’t work that great. have to always be taken off. So of course I see a video where they’re trying to get cat hair off of the sofa cushion with this and it’s just, know, we all know the pain and in like three seconds you’re already like, oh yeah, I relate. This is like, they know a cat owner. Obviously stop the scroll by showing me exactly what I do every day. And then they take their little mitten that they’ve uh developed. You’ll have to go watch the video and they literally just go like this and picks right up that hair. And I’m like sold.

30:40
That’s not even hard. You know what mean? It’s like you showed the problem. You showed how your product is solution. It is that simple. And again, I think the problem is, is that we have people that have created products that it’s like, well, this isn’t demonstrable. Like it’s the shelf that sits on that. Like talk about your bookshelf behind you. I mean, if I, that was my product first, I just, I’d never go into market with that as my product. I just, I I know too much now about

31:08
how you have to be able to market a product, unless there’s something like that, this folds up and you live in a European studio apartment and maybe you need that space later in the day and that will like condense down and do something so funky and flatten against the wall, then that bookshelf to me is like, okay, there’s 1000 bookshelves, they just wouldn’t ever even enter that space. Yeah, which is what I wanted to say, like sometimes your Amazon product isn’t gonna work.

31:34
right, for creating that brand. You gotta pick and choose like your best ones that are most demonstrable and stand out, right? Where you can create some sort of story around it. Well, and I talk a lot because I have colleagues and good friends in this space that literally there is a model that is I am an Amazon seller and this is what that model looks like. And I wish that they would teach this to their students so they understand. An Amazon seller

31:59
your job, if that’s the model you want to do and run an Amazon business is you are constantly on a hamster wheel of finding products that you can have some good margin for maybe three, six months. Maybe it goes for a year, but you get in, you make some good money on that product and then you basically are wiped out because competition gets in there. Everyone and that is the business. Then it’s looking for that next product. So if that excites you, if that’s fun, that’s very different than building a brand that is

32:28
looking for product arbitrage or opportunities where you can come in to a category. It’s not fully saturated. You have a little unique advantage where you’ve found how you can ship it cheaper or flatter or make this tweak. And so if you have like a three to six month glory run and you make, you know, a hundred thousand dollars and you’re going to reinvest that great. And I know people who have done well doing that. And unfortunately they don’t do as well anymore because the aggregators don’t want to buy businesses like that anymore. And that’s what I think there’s a lot of people now in the Amazon space that are kind of like, Oh shoot.

32:57
Like my whole goal was to get in here and do this because they were gonna help me exit, but nobody wants to buy that anymore. It’s so high risk. I work with P groups and aggregators all the time and they won’t touch that. They’re not interested. They want a brand. Yeah. So the examples that you just gave like regarding the cat, like those are great for ads, right? But if you wanted to have like an organic content strategy that required consistency in posting, what is your strategy with that?

33:26
I’m going tell you one because I am launching a cat brand. Oh, you are? Okay, great. I’ll tell you exactly what I want to do in my opinion. brands do have, Janelle? a Literally, like every day I get approached by people that are like, Janelle, I want to launch a brand and I want you to partner and just, you know what mean? And it’s fun, it’s exciting, but it’s like picking the ones where you’re like, okay, this is one where I want to be involved in because here’s why I love this brand.

33:55
What’s the most shared content on TikTok on Instagram? Like to me, it’s a no brainer. I’m like, yes, sign me up for cats. Do you know how much fun we can have making cat content? Like I literally posted about on LinkedIn what my strategy is gonna be. It’s gonna be finding the best cat content, sharing it already. I’ve got creators out there creating, know, that reels of cats, millions and millions of views. I’ve just got to basically.

34:21
work my product into the end of it or do something, you know, that’s an easy one. And then it’s like, have you seen the new stuff they’re doing with the AI cats that do cat casting? Can you imagine like, I’ll have liquid death style, like, know, liquid death to me, I will model all of their commercials and all of their publicity stunts. And instead of human beings being in it, I’m going to put cats as the characters.

34:46
And instead of them, you know, doing liquid death, like we’re doing lickable cat treats, you know, like hydration for cats, that will be our product. And so it’s like, this is what I’m saying is like, you can go in and it’s not like I’m, yes, it’s stealing like an artist. I’m like finding frameworks that already work, brands that are crushing it. And now I get to personify that with cats. And, you know, I literally was thinking the other day, I’m going to go up the animal shelters, like up the street. like, I’m going to go adopt.

35:13
every cat right now. Cause I just got this house. have a lot of acreage, know, and like, and I was like, what if I had like a hundred cats on my property? And like, just go out with my lookable cat treats and they all just come running. Like, I mean, the possibilities are endless. I’ll find every cool like commercial that’s ever been made that’s worked. And instead of it being humans with whatever product it was, it will now be cats with my product and I’ll, I’ll remake that commercial, that content. And so

35:42
That’s kind how I think about like ongoing content on ongoing basis would be what can I do that’s fun? And then I will do contests with people with their quads because people love their cats. People love to make videos of their cats. So I’ll create contests like, Hey, you know who can make the funniest cat video, send it to us like in America’s funniest videos. I don’t even care what it is. I just want everyone sending me their cat content and I’ll just have cat years. We’ll have tons of cat content.

36:11
It’s gonna be too easy. That’s probably not fair because that’s so easy, right? I mean, I think the key takeaway from what you just said is you’re basically trying to attract people who would buy your product and it your videos don’t even have to be about your product. You were just saying you’re gonna be posting all these, uh you know, videos that people submit and then maybe slip your product in occasionally in one of your own videos that that you publish, right? Yep. And here’s something like, I guess you just have to be creative.

36:39
I’m literally, we just launched at Glamnetic, one of the things I’ve been pushing them to focus on, because there’s so many people that can get into the press on nail space and it’s blowing up, right? And your factories are gonna compete with you. And that’s what I say, like, if you don’t have a brand, good luck, because you’re not gonna be able to beat your factory on price, but we can beat them on brand. And we’ve been able to lock down the brand deals. And that’s what I’m pushing for every licensing deal we can get, because the faster you lock those down, your competitors can’t get them, right?

37:06
So if we get all the IP, like, you know, we’ve done Harry Potter, we just did fanatics, you know, we’ve got Hello Kitty, Beetlejuice, like we’re going after those hard. And then like think of the content. Like I’m just sitting here yesterday and I’m like, okay, fanatics has launched. And you remember like the NFL, the Budweiser and Bud cores, know, I’m like, we’ve got Kansas city chiefs and the Cowboys game coming up on Thanksgiving day. I’ve got those nails. So I’m going to have like my graphic designers create like the nails, you know, like.

37:36
They’re going on Superbowl Sunday, although it’s Thanksgiving day. They’re going against each other head on. The cowboy press on nails, Kansas City, Kansas City chief press on nails and we’ll put the helmets on them and we’ll recreate those Budweiser ads. Those were killer, you know? So just thinking outside the box or getting inspiration from what’s worked before. I literally had my VA go into every Facebook group for fan groups. And this is organic site. This is not costing a penny. And I was like, go find every Kansas City chiefs group.

38:05
Um, and it just start posting these nails, like getting my game day on every time there’s a Kansas city chief game. She just literally, I told her a post idea to go have a poll where it was the Cowboys versus the chiefs. Cause this is the same scheme. want to build a ton of hype around that. He has over 3000 shares on this Facebook post, which is like, and it’s got like our nails in the background. She’s talking about getting your game day on. And I mean, I took a screenshot because I’ll probably post about it on LinkedIn, but I’m just saying guys, this is so easy, you know? And, and maybe

38:35
I don’t want to say maybe it’s so easy for me, but I really believe I guess the more I can talk about it, the more I can teach about it, it will become easy for you too, because I’m not smart. I’ve just been doing this more and I sit around, I think about and I look for examples. So I’m hoping that as I’m talking, people are getting ideas, but I’m like, I’m not a genius. know, it’s just the system that I use. I kind of look around like what’s working over here. It’s the Facebook ads library is fantastic. I’ll go into like the most boring.

39:02
I say boring ass categories, I’ll not to swear, and be like, what are they doing in tech? I think tech’s kind of boring, but some people might think that’s interesting. What are their ads? And usually it is pretty boring. think, man, I can make these guys so much more money because they’re so boring. what? You should go help Google. Their ads are always horrible. Or Bugatti or something so different. Like Lamborghini. The brands that have to actually position themselves and sell this feeling

39:32
That’s who you kind of want to look at because they’re not competing on price. And when you see how they position and how they sell, it should really like a Rolex. What are their ads look like? What, is the feeling they’re trying to create? Because they’ve created some dang good loyalty. love things like Harley Davidson. Like if someone’s willing to tattoo your logo on their body, you’ve got a killer brand. And so start thinking about to you, what are some brands where you feel like this affinity or you’re just like, man, they’re good.

40:01
And then to start thinking about, what have they done? And just those thoughts will start generating ideas of what you can do with your product. And then too, sometimes this is so theoretical and this is so brand and this is so high and mighty. I believe so much in brand marketing. I believe it is the long-term investment that people aren’t willing to make. And I work with brands that are, you know, 50 or a hundred million dollars and they are all performance driven. They’re very much direct marketers. And I just have to really push on them. say, I love it.

40:28
You know, you want to know the ROI on everything, but will you just trust me that there’s some things like Gary Vee will always say, what’s the ROI of your mother? Like there are just some things like I cannot sit here and tell you like what that ROI will be, but you have to believe me that it works building your brand, investing in the story and just becoming known. That’s what I call it. A category of one brand get known, get found, get chosen.

40:54
Like these are things that I can’t necessarily say, well, I spent $300 on a Facebook ad and I made, you know, $450 after it. It’s it, it’s brand marketing. It’s always worked. It will work till the cows come home. That’s why all these big brands still do it. Coca-Cola, Nike, like they’re big for a reason. They invest in the long-term ROI that they’re not just building for a one year exit, three year exit. They’re building to build an empire, a legacy. So I think I was why I wanted to tell you that is because I’m talking about

41:22
this brand marketing, but I want to give the listeners also some hope that you can drive incredible returns with a great Facebook ad strategy to like make a funnel, like where you make a great offer on your product. And I’ll tell you an example of a lady that just started working when she was doing like a hundred thousand dollars a month just on Google ads for her kidney. helps. She’s a herbalist for pets, mostly dogs. like

41:49
people will come to her and they have like their dogs in kidney failure. And I didn’t even know anything like this because I didn’t have dogs, but um she can’t make claims. She’s an herbalist. She has botanical formulas and formulations and she has literally saved. I don’t know if I can get her in trouble talking about this, like she’s saved thousands of dogs lives. where they took them to the vet and the vet was like, we have to them down. There’s nothing else we can do. And then these people at desperation will start searching the internet and find her website where she has like,

42:19
her five step system and it works. And she was like, what do I do? And I’m like, you need to run some Facebook ads. mean, literally you’re saving dogs lives. like, oh, but I can’t say this and I can’t say that. I’m like, okay, well the number one step in her program is first you’ve got to get your dogs on raw food. know, and believe it or not, people like actually cook their pets meals, right? Like it’s not good for, I mean, she explained it to me. It may not make sense. I feel like a terrible cat mom because my cat.

42:48
cat food out of the dry bag. But like that is so bad for their kidney. It’s so dry. It’s so processed. These animals were not meant to eat all this. So you see the power of education right here. I’m like, Amanda, if you start teaching people this, on you say what content should she create as a founder? She should have a YouTube channel where she talks about the dangers, the hidden dangers in processed food for animals. Like they were never made by God or whoever created or evolution to be eating dry food.

43:16
Okay, so that’s step one. So what do we do about it? Well, we can cook them meals. Can you imagine? said, do you know what a great lead magnet a recipe book for raw meals for dogs would be? Do know how many leads I could get you at less than 25 cents a click overnight with a Facebook ad giving out free recipes for dogs? You know, and she’s, it’s just, just never think about they’re thinking so transactional, like I got to the product, I’m like, no, we need to get people educated on what it causes kidney failure in animals.

43:45
and how your five step system saves them. And the first step in that is getting them off of their processed food onto a raw diet. And any human being that’s ever into health understands that because it’s the same step for humans, right? We can’t eat garbage, garbage in, garbage out. So it makes complete sense to now the dog owner that’s like, oh my gosh, the food that I’m literally feeding my dog is killing my dog. All right, so step one and then step two is like, they have to have

44:13
pure water. Like I didn’t know this, you know, so she has like all these, these five very beautiful steps. We create a funnel and now we can go to market with getting her leads and it’s just, we’re just getting started, but I would love to be able to like, and I will share it on LinkedIn, but she’ll, she’ll, she’ll have a million dollar funnel. Give us another six months. We’re building the landing pages. We’re getting all the assets together. We don’t even need six months. It’ll be three months. It’s going to be so, so fun. You know, she’s excited and she has so much knowledge.

44:43
She has like saved thousands of dogs. And even if she’d only saved two or three at this point, you still could go to market with this product and this solution. So that’s why I don’t want people thinking like, oh, brand marketing, she’s not out there building like, know, five leaf botanicals, investing in billboards. Like she can literally go into and target her unique owners. We can target on Facebook. The beautiful thing about Meta anymore is you don’t have to know like, what audience, what interests, the creative drives.

45:12
So when you start talking about what you know, and you create the ads, it’ll find them. she’s going to need 500 bucks to go to market, you know, and start getting leads. You know what I like about that example is this is just the tip of the iceberg. She’s building herself as an authority in this niche, and she can release millions of remedies and people will just buy it because of her. Right. Yep. Well, here’s one maybe in case we’re getting

45:40
boring because I’m like I do me to products. I am helping a brand right now. They are literally in the supplement space and I’ve done you know millions of dollars in the supplement space and I start to think supplements are kind of boring but they make they do well but there are a lot of me to products especially if you’re like magnesium and biotins and you know they’re just a dime a dozen and these guys have all me to products and they were just come to me and they are we’re an Amazon bad brand have tons of bestseller badges they’re crushing the Amazon game but literally they’ve got nothing else and it’s competitive as you know

46:09
So I was like, ah, this is going to be actual work, you know, not super exciting or fun because it’s like, how do we get, but I was like, okay, well let’s pick the product that has the most easily identifiable problem. And maybe it’s just cause it’s top of mind for me, but like my hair’s thinning, biotin helps. Like, as you get older, as a woman, go through perimenopause, you start losing hair. There’s all these reasons. So I was maybe most interested about that. But I’m like, okay, we can make a great funnel for biotin because that’s emotionally something that I can stop the scroll with.

46:38
You know, I can show viscerally hair, a lot of hair on the shower because that stresses you out as a woman, as you’re, you know, putting your shampoo and your conditioner in. I know that problem. You know, you pull out and you’re like, oh my gosh, like it’s like a sickening feeling or you see it, you know, at the bottom of the shower drain. And I’m like, this will stop the scroll because it’s speaking to me. I know the problem. And I know like if somebody told me the solution was I need more biotin and here’s the biggest thing people with their hair.

47:07
things like that, they’re very skeptical. And so you’ve got to have a killer offer. So the offer has to be like, you know, 30 day money back guarantee, like no risk, you know, all those typical great marketing, but guys, it’s that simple. Like, let’s find out some of the problems, the solutions that we provide and give an ironclad guarantee. If you believe in your product and they do, they’ve got clinical studies behind this. They can actually say things that most other supplement companies cannot. And so just creating a funnel for them just on that product.

47:36
to help them get traction because the nice thing is when you bring someone in to like if you have a supplement house, you have like all these different products, get them using one product, then it’s very easy when they’re on your email list and you’re nurturing them, you talk about, did you know that magnesium helps with sleep? It helps with restless legs. It can help with your brain function. So now your magnesium, have all these new users that pretty much everyone should be taking magnesium, right? We can get them taking magnesium as we educate them on all the benefits.

48:05
just kind of trying to give examples of things of working on that they could be like, oh, okay. I don’t wanna pick all the easy stuff basically. You know, I was just thinking about all this and we’re talking about this. It’s almost like you should just start creating the content first, building that audience, right? Yeah. And then have that audience that you’ve built dictate what you sell. Yeah, well, I love that you mentioned that because I’ve been writing on LinkedIn just for fun, kicks and giggles, you know.

48:34
I don’t know really why I’m doing it. don’t, it’s not like I have all this extra time, but I just enjoy teaching and my mentors like, what product do you want to sell? I’m like, I have no idea, but I’m kind of like you. It’s like, I’m at one, some time at some future point, maybe I will have a product, but I don’t, I don’t have one. I just know the power of having a brand and an audience. And so there will be maybe somewhere where one day I’m like, this is the product, but

49:03
I’ve been sitting here being like, what would I sell? what do I do? You know, and everything I think of, I’m like, ah, I don’t want to have to fulfill that. You know, maybe I’m just getting older. don’t know. Well, then I can’t play pickleball if I have to like get on the phone every day and do this or that. So I think maybe that might be my problem, but I just know there’s value in brand. Brand is the valuable asset you can have, whether it’s personal or your product brand. Like it is an investment that will pay dividends. has for me.

49:31
and continues to pay is probably my best asset that I’ve ever created is my brand. I 100 % agree with you. We have the same messaging. What we talk about and Janelle if anyone wants to hire you because I can already tell from this episode that there’s going to be a lot of people because you’re like bubbling with creativity, right? I’m an engineer. These things don’t come as easily to me. But for you, it just seems like you’re just pulling them out of the air.

50:00
Where can people find you online? Oh, yeah. I’m at Janelle page.com LinkedIn and Janelle page that’s P A G E like page in a book. And Janelle page 11 on Instagram, I really don’t post about business stuff on Instagram. It’s mostly like my scrapbook. So if you want to see me at Benton Boone last night with my kids, then that’s where you find that if you want like educational tactical information, probably LinkedIn or my website. And then what about the pickleball? I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah.

50:29
Seriously, you guys, if you love pickleball, like we need to play first off, but we also have a coaching program where we teach people how to run low maintenance, high profit pickleball facilities and we have franchise. So it’s the kitchen and I love pickleball and I don’t really want to own a facility where it’s hard to make the numbers work. If you have overhead, that means staff. Um, it, the numbers just won’t work. So we have a system that we’ve created and we have over eight locations just here in Utah. And then we have.

50:58
many nationwide and then lots of coaching students that we teach them how to run like basically low maintenance, high profit, pickleball facility. It’s all smart locks, codes, automation. So it’s been really fun. I do enjoy that as well. Well, Hey Janelle, thank you so much for giving us your energy today and teaching the audience, not only about the importance of brand, but how you can just basically pick up content ideas from midair. you just sit down and just think about it for a little bit. Yeah.

51:28
Exactly. Yeah, or they can just have out with you, Steve or me, we’ll have like exactly. It’s been a pleasure when we have to actually meet in person. Do you play pickleball? I’m a tennis player. I like pickleball. I like pickleball. However, what I don’t like is how all these pickleball courts are taking over my tennis courts. It’s a real thing. I know. And you know what, as a tennis player, you’ll be really good at pickleball because you’ll have the footwork, you have the strokes and

51:57
you just won’t get as good a workout. I always tell people, you know, it’s like the older people like can cream you like it’s like the only sport where you can show up and get beat by eight. don’t anymore. But I got beat by an 80 year old when I first started. I now I believe it. I’m sure I get rocked. What I like about pickleball is like my wife will actually play it because it’s less intimidating than tennis. And so I think pickleball is just the next big thing. Unfortunately for me as a tennis player. Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, cool.

52:27
All thanks, Janelle. Yep, take care. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’re still playing the Amazon PPC game, it’s just going to be a race to the bottom over time and you have to build a brand. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 625. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event.

52:56
go to SellersSummit.com.

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624: Why I’m Building An E-commerce Community (And What I’ve Learned So Far)


In this episode I’m sharing a project I’ve been quietly working on behind the scenes building a community for e-commerce entrepreneurs from the ground up. I’ll walk you through why I’m doing this, the vision I have for it, and the biggest challenges I’m trying to solve before launch.

What You’ll Learn

  • Why I am deliberately building a private ecommerce community instead of launching another course, newsletter
  • The long term vision for this community
  • The hardest problems I am solving before launch

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, I’m sharing a project that I’ve been quietly working on behind the scenes and that’s building a community for e-commerce entrepreneurs from the ground up. I’m going to walk you guys through why I’m doing this, the vision I have for it and the biggest challenges I’m trying to solve before I launch. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online,

00:29
This is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches. People who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. There are no corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people.

00:56
so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over $250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be, so if you want in, go over to SellersSummit.com and grab your ticket. Now, on to the show.

01:29
Welcome to the My Wife Could Her Job podcast. Today we are going to be talking about a cool project that we’ve been working on for quite some time and that is developing a community. It’s tough. Let’s just put that out there in the very beginning. Well, it’s tough because like that’s generally not my personality. it’s tough. I should have said it’s tough with you. No, I’m totally joking about that.

01:55
Yeah, so I think this is interesting and I wanted to talk about this today because you and I are both in the middle of community building. one of the like the first thing I want to talk about is both of us are building communities off of Facebook. Well, we were building communities off of Facebook. You like we’re not off of Facebook. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I see how that was misinterpreted. Yes. Our communities are not living on Facebook. There we go. Right.

02:23
And I have chosen Discord as my platform and you guys have chosen Circle. Circle. Yeah. Right. So I thought it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Well, I mean, I think we’re going to talk a little bit about the platforms, but I think I have found that even and I talked in depth with Liz about this yesterday is that, know, she had a pretty active community on Facebook and she so this is a completely separate community. She had a very active community on Facebook. She has tried to move it to Circle.

02:52
and she is struggling getting people into circle. I know for you, there was a private Facebook group for both courses actually. The one for Profitable Online Store has always been a little more active, but there’s a lot more people in it, so that makes sense as well. But I would say percentage-wise, you’ve struggled too to move people over to the Discord community. Of course, because people, a lot of people don’t want to be on Discord who are on Facebook, right?

03:21
The same could be true also. A lot of people don’t like being on Facebook. So there’s always been like a uh fraction of the people on Facebook period from the people who sounded for the class. Right. And I think there was a time um and I think about our friends, Paul and Tiffany, who do have a community on Facebook. There was a time when building a community on Facebook was the be all end all. Right. Facebook gave a lot of priority to communities and groups. They sort of helped with your reach.

03:50
But that seems to have come to an end. And so some of the advantages of building on Facebook has disappeared, in my opinion. I mean, that came to an end like years ago. Yeah. Like five years ago, they already started sucking. Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen people with groups work. Like one of the most popular ones is this million dollar sellers. I think they charge like five thousand dollars a year and they’re still going strong on Facebook. Yeah.

04:18
Yeah. And I will say like there are terms of service with Facebook as far as like charging for a Facebook community. have to you have to circumvent that. You can’t just have a community that you charge for on Facebook. You have to offer something else. And I know Million Dollar Seller does. But yeah, there’s definitely some some things you have to watch out for. But I would say you chose Discord. Let’s talk about why you chose Discord, because I did not choose Discord. Yes. So number one, it is free. Yeah. But more importantly,

04:47
It’s got the best backend ever in terms of what you can do with it. It’s like communities for coders. And that’s why I chose it. Which makes sense because a lot of the groups that are very popular in Discord seem to be more tech-focused and based. From what I’ve seen, I’m not a Discord expert. I’m not either, actually. But it started out as a gaming platform, right? Right.

05:16
I actually, when I first got introduced to Discord, it was because I was playing games with my buddies and there’s ties to it. It knows who’s logged into what game and then you can just chat on Discord as you’re playing the game. How can you chat as you’re playing? Is it audio chat, I guess? Oh yeah, it’s audio chat. Yeah, not video Trying to envision you typing with one hand and playing the game with the other hand.

05:40
But like you can integrate like a payment platform you can integrate we’ve integrated like Steve bot and Tony bot and whatnot and we are moving this community also over to our conference the seller summit and We should have done this a long time ago. It’s just I got too many projects But you know anytime someone goes to an event they want to be able to keep in touch with people afterwards And so we have seller summit bot also which has read in all of the talks

06:09
and you can query it like a chat should be T. I’m actually excited about that because we do get a lot of questions about talks and it’s like, I can’t remember what year. In fact, I was talking last week at ECF to Dana who gave one of our closing keynotes and I was like, yeah, 2024. And she’s like, no, it was 2023. And I was like, no, 2024. And she’s like, no, I’m pretty sure it was 2023. And then I was like, you’re right, Bill was 2024.

06:34
So I just, you know, it’s too much information, right? I don’t remember all of that off the top of my head. Who spoke on what, when? I don’t even probably don’t even know what I spoke on what, when. I think the content is the problem, right? Like, oh, I remember that speaker said this one thing, like, what was it? And now you can ask it. Yeah. So I will say as someone who’s new to Discord, watching you build it and then being in the community, I do think that it’s

07:00
pretty cool everything that you can do and all the features and the different groups. I’m still learning how to use it. I’m definitely not a power user of Discord, but I can see the appeal from your end because you can figure out the back end of it. I mean, it’s like really, it’s just slack on steroids is really what it is. Yeah. Right. But let me tell you, it’s a lot more engaged than Facebook for sure. Like Facebook was crickets.

07:28
Whereas like on the discord group, I see messages come in all the time people using the bot people interacting with each other and just the other day for the very first time actually I saw two people in a voice chat room together. Oh That was the first time I’d seen that I’ve seen it happen once or twice on there, but I think that’s pretty cool Yeah, so one of the things that I think is interesting about using any platform off Facebook is as the admin as the moderator

07:58
I know for me, because I’ve moderated in many Facebook groups, if you get tagged in something, you get that notification, it comes through with all of your other Facebook notifications. So Facebook notifications from my mother and when people comment on a photo or memory or whatever it is, right? So I’ll open Facebook and it’s like, have 300 notifications, right? And so to find where people are mentioning you in a group that you are managing.

08:24
and potentially people are paying to be in, it gets really tough, right? It’s very easy to miss stuff in a Facebook group. Every time I get tagged in Discord, I know it, right? It’s very clear to me that someone is asking me a question or mentioning me. So I do think, and I would say the same goes for other platforms as well outside of Facebook, but I do think that’s one of the huge positives of building something off of Facebook is that as the moderator, your ability to see what’s happening seems to be greater.

08:54
I mean, the downside, of course, is not many people use Discord comparatively, right? And for some reason, think Discord’s onboarding is a little messed up. Yeah, so let’s talk about that. Because that is where I have seen a lot of people have an issue. And maybe it’s because we’re only letting certain people in. You have to be a paid course member. I’m not sure. You could talk about how you set that up and what people are struggling don’t that’s the problem.

09:21
Just the people? No. No, no, no. It’s got nothing to do with the people actually, because I actually managed to reproduce one of the problems that someone had. And it stems from the fact that if you don’t have like the app installed, no, no, I think if you have the app installed on your computer, but you’re using the web interface or some combination of the two, it’s been a couple of weeks now, when you get invited to a group, it like tries to create a new account for you, even though you already have one.

09:51
and then you end up with like a million accounts. oh That’s the issue. It didn’t happen to me, it didn’t happen to you, but I did reproduce it by just creating a whole new account on a fresh computer. Well, I did have a glitch getting into the seller summit account, then I was actually… Anyway, it can be glitchy, I have found. um But also when I get a technical glitch, I just assume it’s me.

10:20
All right, so here’s what’s cool about Discord. In the backend, you can approve people to be able to see certain threads or groups, right? And you can automate that pretty easily. basically, within the course, like the membership site where you have to log in, there’s a button that you have to push to get approved. And then after you hit that button, which can only be accessed if you’re actually a member, then you get access to all the stuff.

10:50
Let’s just say that I am me. How hard is it for me to build what you’ve built on Discord? I mean, I think it just depends, because I didn’t know anything about it. I basically vibe coded my way through it. OK. And even though I was vibe coding my way through it, it actually was very confusing.

11:13
because uh Discord has all this terminology and all this stuff, so it’s a little hard to understand. So now I’m a little more familiar with it, but when I first started, it’s actually a little intimidating. It’s not like your typical Vibe-coded project, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. So you could do it. I’ve seen you and Liz create apps and whatnot. You could do it. It’s just not… There’s a learning curve, basically. Yeah. So let me compare that to Circle, because that’s what we’re using. um

11:42
You know, obviously there’s a big differentiator in that Circle is not free, right? You pay monthly. And the one thing that Liz and I were chatting about yesterday that I don’t like about Circle is that there’s a couple tiers, and we’ve talked about this a lot in the course, Companies nickel and dime you, right? They give you the base thing and you get like bare minimum and then it’s like, oh, but if you pay $50 more a month, you’ll get this feature. But then if you want the really cool feature, so one of the features that I wanted was to be able to like,

12:10
send a blast notification when um accountability starts, right, our accountability hour or half hour. And of course, that’s on a tier that we’re not on, right? And we’re not willing to pay for that right now. So obviously everyone’s in ConvertKit. I can email them from ConvertKit. It actually is not that big of a deal, but it would be really nice to have that feature um as part of the plan that we’re paying for, but it’s not. I would say setup wise with Circle, um like the Uber, it’s like,

12:40
ordering an Uber, so simple, right? It guides you through everything, tells you exactly what to do. um One of the issues that Liz ran into that she finds is like a pet peeve for Circle is that every single thing that you build in Circle requires a different size graphic. And they don’t resize it for you, so you have to then resize your own graphics and put them up there. So nothing is a standard across the board. So if it’s like an events page, it’s this size graphic. If it’s this kind of page, it’s this size graphic.

13:08
Which, you know, that’s one of those like nitpicky type things. um I feel like Circle could fix that very easily, right, in their own back end. But, you know, if we’re gonna do a true review of it, that is one of the negatives. um But I like it because it’s very similar to Discord in that you can have different buckets of people, right? So, like where you and I see like everything in Discord, um you know, I see everything in Circle. If you’re part of, you know, one group.

13:35
that’s a totally private group and it’s not seen. And I don’t know about Discord with this, but like the two people that got on the phone call, right, the voice chat? Can someone else just automatically join that chat or is it private between those two people? They can join, but they can say, hey, this is a private chat and then that guy would leave. Maybe. Maybe, maybe not. Well, I mean, worst case, they would just DM each other and then join the private chat. Like the ones that are…

14:02
that I saw were like technically like meeting rooms within the Discord. They could easily just have their own private conversation on Discord if they wanted to. Yeah. So, you know, so basically you can do those private rooms where, you know, only certain people have access to, which you can do in Discord because we have different buckets of people. Like if you’re in seller summit, you don’t have access to the profitable online store unless you’re also a member of that course. So there is a lot of flexibility with those types of things.

14:29
And I would say just overall, if you have zero tech experience, if you don’t want to vibe code or haven’t figured that out yet, Circle is a good option. It is expensive. I think the plan we’re on is $100 a month, which is that’s expensive. But the people who join don’t have to pay, obviously, right? So we it’s a paid community. yes, they do have to pay. But they don’t have to pay to use Circle. Correct. Yeah, that’s what I meant. And that’s all integrated. Right. The payment.

14:57
plan and everything is integrated within Circle, which I know for you, think you had to integrate, you’re gonna have to integrate that at some point. Yeah, yeah, I will, yeah. For Circle though, is there an app also, like a phone app that works pretty well? I think there, I actually only use it on desktop, but I can only assume there is a phone app, so yes. Okay. I would just think that Discord has more of a user base than Circle, right, just because Discord’s been around longer.

15:25
in a different community. I guess my only concern is like these guys are not pro, because I have some, have a friend who’s pretty high up over there. Pretty sure they’re not making any money. And they’ll need to, well, you know, it’s just one of these venture backed companies designed to grow, grow, grow, right? So. You know, and then it’s going way, way back. mean, I remember when you, when I first met you, you had your community on a forum. Yeah, that was the biggest disaster ever.

15:56
But I can’t even remember, was that something that you built within WordPress or was that something? No, I didn’t build anything. It was just a plugin. It was a WordPress plugin that had a nice forum on there. And I think the problem was that in order to respond, you had to log in, post your reply, and no one was logging in. And that’s why I asked about the app. I think the app is important because when people have it on their phone, like I do, you get a little notification. You can mute certain threads, you can mute certain people even.

16:25
Am I muted on your Discord? That way when you get a notification, you can just reply to it right away. Yeah, so that’s it’s interesting because so one of my clients moved to Slack a couple months ago. They were using Voxer, which I did not love at all. ah And I really hesitated putting Slack on my phone because typically I’m in front of my computer every day from eight to five.

16:53
you know, you know, bathroom breaks, whatever. But what I didn’t want was to be away from my computer, you know, at 730 on a Friday night and have like ding, ding, ding, you know, slack, slack, slack. I feel a little bit the same way with Discord as the community owner, right? Like not as a user, but as the owner, I feel like I really don’t want to, because my personality type is one, if someone says something, I feel very obligated to respond, right? I feel very obligated to interact like immediately.

17:23
And so I don’t like having it on my phone because I feel like that’s sort of the boundary. But I also ended up when I was traveling, putting it on, putting Slack on my phone because I was like, well, there are going to be times, you know, that I don’t have my computer open and I want to be able to answer people’s questions in a quick way. But yeah, I don’t know. The phone app to me is as a user, though, I think it’s a really cool feature. Yeah. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of.

17:53
If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in eCommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away.

18:20
Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show.

18:27
Yeah, I mean, I think an app is essential because if there’s any friction at all in responding, people just aren’t going to respond. And what’s also important is that you get like a little email saying you have un-responded requests and whatnot. Yeah. Just little things like that. I don’t know, you know, for many years I’ve resisted creating like a community, but I think because of AI, it’s more important than ever to do so. And so that’s why I’ve changed my tune as of late.

18:56
Yeah, I do think that you bring up a really good point is that the more AI, the more people are using AI and it’s becoming just part of our everyday life, having that community interaction is really important. um I felt that way a little bit at ECF this year, right? It was just really nice to see people and talk to people and not ask Chad GBT all of my life questions. um Actually, our friend Dana was telling me that she’s created like a whole um like therapy.

19:24
session with chat GPT by inputting a bunch of different things. It’s way too complicated to get into right now, but um I don’t know. I feel like when I have any kind of question, I immediately ask chat before I ask anybody else now. um So to me, it was like really nice to sit and talk to people at ECF. Well, isn’t chat nicer? Not that ECF people, very, it’s like seller summit people. They’re all very, very nice. But yeah, so one of the things that you’re doing, so My Circle community is paid.

19:54
uh Liz’s Circle Community for Fluencer Fruit, you get it with the tool, right? So you’re doing something similar with that. If you’re in the course, you get the community as part of the, I don’t wanna say it’s a bonus, but it is a bonus. uh I think those things are great bonuses if you are doing a course, having that community is a great add-on to add value to what you’re selling. But you’re thinking about, and I don’t know where we are on this, but you’re thinking about adding it as an option to people.

20:23
who are not in the course, they’re not, now before everyone in the course flips out on me, they’re not in the course community. There will be another, there’ll be another bucket of, we’ll just call it, know, another bucket of people who aren’t as cool as our course members. Let’s just make that very clear to our course members uh who will have access. Let’s talk about that a little bit because that feels like a huge uh gamble as far as your time.

20:48
It’s not a gamble. I worst case, I just refund everyone and call it a day, just shut it down. I made a terrible mistake. I don’t want to talk to you. OK, so here’s the problem. So I’ve been raising the price of my class over the years, and I just literally raised it this past week. What is it priced at now? I’m curious. It’s $2,500 now.

21:11
Okay, in the world of courses, that’s cheap. Most of them are $5,000. I actually added a $5,000 tier also. What is that? They get to come to your house and play croquet? No, they get quarterly one-on-one consults for the year, and then they get a tear down of their business. I’m not involved in those consults, right? Just making sure you didn’t put my face on that. Actually, you’re the one giving the consults, and I was going to give you a little cut. Right, right. Here’s your $17.

21:40
for your your hour consult. Yeah, we’ll see how that goes. But I think the purpose of that, even if no one signs up, is that it anchors the price higher so that when you just pay for the regular course, seems cheaper. Yeah. So it serves two purposes. why do you get so many people sign up for that? You’re going to be like, just kidding. I’m refunding you all $2500. Well, yeah, we’ll see how that goes. But I think.

22:07
If someone signs up for that, I know they’re gonna be serious. And when that happens, I’ll probably wanna talk to them, because I know that they’re serious. We get this question a lot, actually, in webinars, is how much is it just to talk to you? I mean, I would say that question, it’s come up in every single webinar, usually multiple times, and usually also in email questions, we get it as well. And we’ve always said, we don’t do that.

22:34
Right. It’s just not we don’t have the bandwidth. So now you’ve changed that for profitable online store to what is it quarterly? You quarterly. Yes. OK. Yeah. I mean, we’ll see how it goes. If it’s overwhelming that I’m just going to take off the tear. It’s very simple. Just climb, climb down from your pile of money. I’ll just say sorry. We’re not doing this tier anymore. oh Anyway. OK. So back to the community. So the reason why is because I’ve been raising the prices and literally the price went up

23:03
like this week and just before like the day it was gonna go up, I got a bunch of emails saying, this is so expensive, like I can’t afford it, why are you like gouging people, you know, whatever, comments like that. And I was thinking to myself, okay, well, you know, I’m not willing to lower the price and maybe the solution, the real solution is to have a tier that’s much more affordable for those people who can’t afford it, who actually still wanna learn.

23:33
And I thought the best way to do that would be to create a community where they can ask questions and I can chime in with answers or the community can chime with answers. And then we have like just like one time every week where we go live and just kind of answer questions as a group. Right. And yeah, I mean, that’s that’s the purpose. Also, the secondary purpose of having the community is to just.

24:00
get to know more people and just kind of understand what people are looking for. Like I’m always living in this bubble since I don’t like I told you before, like I’m not really a community person. And so I think that hurts me because I don’t really have a strong pulse on what like people want or what they’re looking for or what not. So. Yeah. OK, so so if someone joins the paid community, they’re not a course member, so they don’t have access to the lessons.

24:30
They don’t have access to office hours. Right. So so they’re getting questions answered in the community as well as you’re going to go live once a week and talk. So they get a number of things. OK, so they’re going to get the the Steve bot of the blog portion so they can instantly look up anything that I’ve ever answered on the blog really quickly and it’ll link them back to the post and answer the question. They’ll also get the podcast bot, which allows them to query any podcast with anyone that I’ve ever done.

25:00
with their questions. And they’ll also get my YouTube bot, which has all of my YouTube videos that I’ve ever done about e-commerce. I’m probably not going to create the bot for my, I like to call them my fluff pieces or my rants and whatnot. don’t think that’s useful. But any tutorial I’ve done on YouTube, I will create into a bot also. And so they’ll get, I guess like an encyclopedia of everything that I’ve done outside of the class, obviously.

25:30
So what do you have a price yet on this or are you still mulling that? No, no. I we just got back from ECF, Tony. I haven’t thought about this. I’m trying to think of like I’m just thinking to myself, what would that be worth to somebody? feel like so podcasts are terrible to search, right? YouTube videos are hard to write. Like so to me, the value in the blog posts are probably the easiest thing to search. Right. You go to my wife, quit her job.

25:56
to the blog, you put in a search query, you’re probably going to get an answer, I would say, most likely. I think you would probably just more likely search Google. Well, if I wanted to know your opinion on something. It’s not easy to even find the blog post, right? Because a lot of times you have one specific question, and you don’t want to sift through like a 2,000 word post to find that answer, right? True.

26:18
But I would say like having searched your blog meant for many things before because I’ve used it in like promotional stuff and looking like the blog search to me is the is the least valuable not to say it’s valuable, but it definitely will cut off time But the podcasts and the YouTube to me are huge right because there’s no possible way I’m gonna be able to search your YouTube for something ah And same with the podcast as well. So to me that are two extremely high value

26:46
So my concern for you, as our as we’re friends, is that what’s an acceptable price point that keeps the community full of people that are truly wanting to learn and start a start a business or grow their business versus like the looky-loos? I’m not even worried about that at all. Really? Yeah, because I’m going to start it out. She’s going to ban them and review. You’re just like refund Steve today. I’m just going to refund them. It’s no big deal. It’ll start out cheap.

27:16
I don’t even know what that price is gonna be. And then if it’s popular, then I’ll just raise the price. uh Like if it gets overwhelming, like that’ll be my threshold. Like if I feel like this is like running on a treadmill, then I’ll just raise the price and reduce the demand. That will be six people in the community guys, just so you know. He will be overwhelmed. ah But I mean, there’s benefits for me too outside of just the money.

27:43
The money to me in this particular case, at least in the first iteration, is gonna be what I call maintenance costs. I’ll probably use that money maybe to hire a moderator to just make sure things are okay. And then uh what’s nice about the community also is they’re gonna be asking me questions, they’re gonna be asking me what tools I use, so that leads to affiliate. It’s also kind of like a gateway drug into the main classes.

28:10
It’s also, you know, if people get to know each other, they probably want to hang out in person. So that might lead to more people coming to seller summit, you know? I mean, there’s a lot of benefits outside of just the membership fees. So that’s the way I think about it right now. And it’s not like, you you decide on one thing and it’s in stone, right? Right. Like if it’s overwhelming, you just. My biggest fear actually is the spam problem. Even if you’re paying, like there’s always going to be people who

28:39
who cause a ruckus. Like I’ve chatted with Andrew who runs ECF about this. I mean, it gets out of hand like all the time. And that is my biggest fear. Is the ruckus. Is the ruckus. And, uh you know, as another mutual friend that we know, like you can’t just like ban someone because then they’ll cause an even bigger ruckus outside. Like, so one of our friends for all these, for anyone who’s listening, he got canceled basically. Yes. uh

29:09
saying something on the forum and then, you I think he ended up just banning the people at first. Yeah. And then those people who got banned, like just causing even bigger ruckus. And it just got way out of hand. Yeah. And that can happen very quickly if you’re not careful. You know, I will say Andrew must do a great job of helping with uh the spam because I rarely I don’t ever see anything. Now, I’m not in the forums every day either, but.

29:35
they obviously do a great job of moderating over there. And he has a full-time moderator too. He does. He has a full-time moderator. And I’m pretty sure there’s some sort of AI element, which is like my backup plan. Like I’m going to have this bot that will query everything that people ask and give me a number on the scale of like one to a hundred in terms of promotional or abusive. That’s the part that’s a little tricky. And then it’ll just…

30:03
Instantly ban anyone not ban anyone but suspend that particular message if it’s like above a certain threshold is what I was thinking So I do think that one of the things that is really cool about this and and I don’t know for me personally It’s a motivator. I can only assume it motivates other people as well is the whole scene what you don’t have access to Right, so I remember there was a website. I can’t remember whose website it was. It might have been smart marketers No, what was Ryan Dice’s?

30:32
Oh, a digital marketer. Digital marketer. Like if he used to sell these like $10 courses, right. And really they were for if you owned a business, you bought like the Facebook course for your Facebook person. Right. And they took that course and went through it. But when you so I bought one of the courses one time, I don’t even remember what it was. And, know, because it’s like 999. Well, when you log into your course page, I think we’ve talked about this before. It had.

30:58
all of the courses that they had available, but they were all grayed out and only the ones you had paid for were like bright and you could click on it and you would access that curriculum. And I’ve seen other people do this over the years. And to me, that’s like super effective, right? And there was also some like bundling components to it, right? So it’s like, well, if you buy one more course, that’s another 9.99. But if you want to buy this whole suite of like social media, then that’s, you know, a price that’s cheaper than everything bought, you know, individually.

31:26
And I felt like that was a huge motivating factor to upgrade. I’m sure it was, I mean, they did very well in that time period. So I’m sure it was a very effective way. So I feel like getting people in the community and seeing like, oh, look, there’s all these other places that you could be, but you don’t have access to right now, will be a motivator. Does Circle have those, the ability to moderate like programmatically? That I don’t know.

31:53
I would assume probably not the way Discord does, just based on how the platform is built. Right. Like on Discord, you can literally read in everyone’s messages, run it through AI or whatever you want to do, and then take action on whoever that person was. Yeah. I don’t think to that level at all, for sure. I mean, not to know if that’s necessary even. I’m just like a paranoid guy. Yeah. You know, I always plan for the worst, hope for the best.

32:22
Yeah, I will say for a, and obviously we know people who have, mean, Andrew’s community is not cheap, but we know people who have, getting people to pay definitely helps with a lot of that, right? Like you’re removing the, because we see this on webinars, right? Where people will spam and sort of, we don’t get it a ton, but it does happen. But with a paywall, you’re removing at least 50 % of that, if not more.

32:51
I think more than that. think even like a dollar makes a huge difference just getting someone to open up their wall at all. Now will you have will this be like a monthly recurring or yearly or you haven’t thought

33:06
That’s a good monthly with a year membership being like obviously a discount to the monthly. It’s very cheap right now, but um that’s our plan is to do monthly with uh pay for a year and get a substantial discount. Yeah, I think with monthly, like there’s always this huge hassle of credit cards expiring. Yeah. And all that. I mean, I have it. I see it right now with my payment plans. Yeah. Kind of a pain in butt.

33:31
Like assuming you want people to continue paying, right? Obviously. If you don’t care about money. If you don’t care, like they lose access and then whatnot. But I mean, a lot of times, you know, want to get, they’ve already opened up their wallets, so they’re willing to pay the money. And so you almost need to have a person like reminding them to, update their credit card and whatnot. So that’s like another hassle, probably at the price point that I’m thinking for the mic media. I probably just, I probably wouldn’t even care. Probably just.

34:01
For the class obviously it matters because we’re talking hundreds of dollars a right, right, right And you can send out an automated email, but it just doesn’t work as well as when you just send an email that says hey look, you know Right. Yeah, I’m actually glad we’re talking this out because I haven’t spent too much time On the monetization part like I just know it needs to cost something right because if someone opens up their wallet They’re probably not gonna be like overly promotional

34:30
Mm-hmm or as much as like someone who’s just in there just to spam and run right right right and plus I will have their you know information right so You know I can easily ban them in the future ban on their life. So I think my only When I’m thinking through what you’re doing because you have this really high price product at $2,500 so let’s just say you charge $49 a month for the community

34:58
Right, that’s that’s completely made up number. um That seems so cheap, right? Do you think people will, do you think this will, so I can see this affecting the sales of the course initially. I don’t think long term it will affect the sales of the course because I think when people get into the community and realize that like the course actually has all these, you know, I don’t even know how many, we have almost 300 lessons in our course and it’s way newer than what you’ve been doing. um

35:25
I can imagine people thinking like, well, let me try the $49 a month option because $2,500 is steep and then maybe not convert or maybe this is the way they do convert, right? Like, I’m not sure which way it’ll go. Have you thought about that at all? That’s a good question. I think what’ll happen is like I make most of my conversions these days on like the three day workshops that I do, right?

35:53
because that’s what I can show and demonstrate like the true value of the full class. And so the way I see it is you get someone in the community and then you get them to join these free workshops, then they’ll see the value. So like I said, it’s kind like a gateway drug and it’s easier to get people into that workshop if they’re already in the community. So I really don’t see that as a detriment. And for those of the community is gonna be useful, but it’s not gonna be nearly as useful for getting answers.

36:21
as like the full class, obviously, right? Because you’re depending on the community to answer and then you have the bots not for the detailed lessons in the class. Here’s the problem with podcasts, YouTube and blog. Let’s just take YouTube for example. You cannot go into too much depth on YouTube on the actual implementation or the solution. Otherwise that video is gonna bomb. YouTube is kind of meant for the masses.

36:47
Likewise with the podcast, we’re not gonna go into this huge in-depth tutorial on the podcast, right? Interview with anyone. Whereas the class, you can actually get a lot more in-depth on the actual implementation. Yeah, actually I have perfect example of this. So right now we’re talking about communities, we’re talking about Discord, we’re talking about Circle. Liz is gonna come on to Profitable Audience in a couple weeks and give a full breakdown of Circle. The setup, the in-depth. So for people who are considering it, this will be your guide.

37:14
to whether this is the right decision or if you’ve sort of already made up your mind, here’s some cool things we found that it does, that kind of thing. We can’t go into that on the podcast, right? It’s just not feasible. Also, know, obviously this is video recorded, but we’re not screen sharing, we’re not showing, demonstrating types of things. So I totally agree with you. The depth that we go into in uh the lessons in both classes is far greater than we could ever do in a podcast or on a video. uh

37:44
YouTube video. So yes, I totally think that’s the case. I just hope I Don’t know. I think it will be the gateway drug as well for people like they get in there They see how much input it’s kind of like when I took your course a million years ago, right and I took your mini course right 2014 I think it was and The amount of information you gave away for free in the mini course in my mind was like well If this is what you’re giving away for free, what in the world would I get if I paid?

38:13
Right, it was like this, it was a complete motivator based on how good the information was in the free product and we teach this all the time, right? Like you want that information that you’re giving away for free in your lead magnet or in your flow or YouTube series, whatever. We want that to be the best because if people see what you’re giving away, to me it means what am I gonna pay for then? Like how amazing is this going to be? Like what’s the level of service if the level of service is already so high on the free tier? So.

38:40
I think that’s what will happen, but I’m curious to see it because. Here’s actually how I see the community. It’s like a much more improved version of an email list. Right. Because you’re getting all these people together who you actually know and you can interact with.

38:58
And they’re much more likely to respond like when you tag everyone, for example, which is something you have to pay for in Circle, which I think is ridiculous, by the way. Yes. Yes. I said, I said there’s a lot of things that I feel like are dumb for sure. So I can just go at everyone on Discord. Hey, I’m giving a workshop or hey, I’m to be speaking at this event and whatnot. And people instantly get their notification on their phone, which in theory should have much better deliverability on email, which has gotten a lot worse over the years. Yes. Right.

39:28
So actually what I’ve been torn was, you know, on my YouTube videos I always say, hey, if you want to learn about e-commerce, take my six day mini course, which is my email lead magnet. Maybe the right thing to do is to say, hey, join my discord group or something So that’s what we’ve been doing on our TikToks is join, um you know, join. Well, we actually have them take the lead magnet quiz, but our push is to the community. Our push is not to the email.

39:55
You’re asking for a payment right off the front. Yeah. Now we’re going back and forth with that. Right. Like are we going to do we would be rather. And since we are basically starting from zero. Right. um You know we’ve gone back and forth. So now we’re kind of experimenting between take the quiz and you know join the community. Our community price is so low we have had people just join the community because it’s very cheap. But eventually it’s not going to be right. It’s not going to always be this this less this inexpensive. So

40:24
At some point, I’m charging right now. Nine dollars a month. So it’s like a no brainer. Yeah. But I say that hopefully it’s still nine dollars a month when you listen to this podcast. But it should be. You’re like, I got 10 members. I’m overwhelmed. I know. It’s like I’m paying for my circle fee. We’re good. But no, but like to me, our quiz is really good. Like, I feel like our I feel like our lead magnet is exactly what it.

40:50
I felt like we really nailed that. And so to me, part of me is like, I don’t know, we’re also converting people into the community from the email list. So one of the things that we’re doing, because we do a weekly accountability chat, basically, where people, basically, one of the pieces of feedback I got from Lars at ECF was, my wife has joined a lot of communities, but she feels like it’s just all fluff and no action. And so one of the things that we’re really focused on is,

41:17
Having people take action on the next steps and whatever they’re doing right because um our community isn’t for digital content creators It’s for any like female ceo. So it could be you know managing a team or um doing something completely different than like what we do with our courses, um But our so every time we we just started this so I have no I don’t have any data but To remind people about the accountability check-in. I send an email

41:46
but I send it to the whole list, which is not very big. um And as the list grows, probably will not be able to do this long term, but as the list is small, I say, hey, guess what? Today or tomorrow, whenever I send it, our accountability check-in is this day at this time. um Can’t wait to see you there. Oh, but by the way, if you’re not a member of the community, you can join so you can be with us in that accountability chat. Click here, right? And I think we’ve converted two people off of that from an exceptionally small list, so to me, that’s a win.

42:16
So, and I think at a low price point, that is a way to convert people, right? So for you, probably more difficult because your main. I tried that accountability thing. It ended up being a disaster. Well, I wouldn’t say disaster, but, you know, people would purposely not show up because they didn’t want to be. They didn’t want me to ask. Yes, we’ve experienced that for sure. But people are people. the people who are joining our group are only joining for accountability. Like, that’s the point of our whole program, right? Is we take your archetyped.

42:45
and your archetype and we help you figure out your pain points through your type A architect. anyway, um but I would say that might be uh a ploy for you because you have a large general email list, right? When you launch the community, let’s just say you’re doing your check-in or your ask me, let’s call them ask me anythings, right? So you’re doing your ask me anythings Thursday at 10 a.m., right? Let’s just say. So.

43:09
at Wednesday night, you send out an email and say, hey, don’t forget to join us for Thursday. Ask me anything. Oh, not in the community. Join here so you can be with us tomorrow. Right. Yeah. And if the price point’s low enough, for it’s very low for us, I’m sure for you, it’s going to be a very affordable price point. That might be a way to get more people into the community. Right. Is that urgency like, hey, we’re going live in 12 hours. Right. Or whatever it is.

43:34
You know, I talked to Spencer about this. He actually left his community free in the beginning just to get people in and chatting and whatnot. I don’t think I’m bold enough to do that because that’s just inviting spam. Like I’ve I’ve had like many Facebook groups before that were wide open and like they get spam. It’s just I had to close my my wife quick community, which I think it has like 20,000 people. Yeah, it got big. But you had so much spam in there. I remember that.

44:02
Yeah, so the point is like I had to approve every post towards the end. so like huge time. So I can’t handle that. I can’t handle that at all. So that’s why I think it’s important to charge a little bit. So I’ll probably charge like super little just to get, you know, yeah, some people. That was our theory is like charge a little bit in the beginning, get your founding members type thing in. And then obviously they get grandfathered in on the pricing, but then you just continue to creep it up.

44:30
Yeah, and my mentality is like an alternative email list. So I don’t really need to profit off of this, to be honest with you. I just need to be able to pay like a moderator, I think. And it will just be a way to communicate with a lot of people. And I don’t know if that’s your goal with yours, but for me, I actually don’t care about the money that comes in per se in the beginning. Yeah, our goal is a little bit different. Our goal is

44:58
the community is the goal, right? So, but a very focused, know, not just female only, but type A female. We had a couple type B females reach out, very disappointed. I said, well, we’re not qualified to make a type B community, because neither of us are. But our goal is different, right? Our goal is to build the community into a pay, like a revenue source. And so, I think.

45:22
And that way we’ll probably build it a little bit differently. But I think in the end, the goal is always the same. Right. You want an active community where people are actually getting help and benefiting from being in there and being willing to continue to be a part of the community and be like the way communities work is that it’s not just me and you investing in the people in discord. Right. It’s the people in discord investing in each other. And so that’s our goal with what Liz and I are doing as well. But, you know, the way you have to do that in the beginning is definitely

45:50
you as the owner have to be in there. You have to be investing and you have to be making it something that’s exciting for people to be a part of. mean, I can already picture what’s going to happen with mine in my in my dark mind. Like I’m going to see a bunch of agencies and whatever join. Yeah. Yeah. And then just try to be very helpful and then slip in. Oh, by the way, I run into it, you know. Yeah, because we teach that. So I’m thinking to myself, OK, well, how am I going to prevent that from happening? Right.

46:19
So maybe I’ll have to screen to see what people do. So that’s why, in my mind at least, this is feeling like a lot of work in the beginning. So we’ll see. That’s why I’m fully willing to just refund the person and call it a day if this experiment doesn’t work out. But I think it’ll be fine. I think it’ll be fine. Will there be a big announcement when people can join? I’m sure you’re going to get emails like, can I join? Where is this? Let me join right now.

46:46
Are we going to do a big announcement when this happens? Where should people look to find out when this is available? I mean, just join my email list right now. So if you just go over to mywifequitterjob.com and then just sign up for the mini course and then you’ll be on my list at that point. And then I’ll make the announcement there as well as text also. So and before we close it out, I have to give a shout out to someone I met at ECF. I was having a conversation during one of the parties with our friend Danny, who actually is my neighbor.

47:15
I didn’t know we live so close to each other. his former business partner was sitting there and he said, your voice sounds so familiar. And I was like, it does? you know. And he’s like, hear you on. He’s like, are you on Steve’s podcast? So shout out to Patrick, who recognized my nasally, gross voice. ah That was pretty fun. was like, oh, that’s kind of fun that someone recognized me from my voice. ah

47:42
Also a little a little weird but very very exciting so that was I think the first time it’s ever happened like people know me from the podcast obviously but that was the first time someone just hurt had only heard me and never seen me and Recognized the voice. I thought that was kind of And there we go. The easiest way into Tony’s heart is just recognize her voice She just wants to be recognized just want to be recognized

48:06
Hope you enjoyed this episode. Once everything is live, you will all be the first to know. For more information and resources, go over to mywipequitardop.com slash episode 623. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go over to sellersummit.com.

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623: Why 90% of TikTok Shop Sellers Fail & How The Other 10% Make Millions With Ian Page

In this episode I sit down with Ian Page of Bullseye Sellers to uncover the brutal truth about why most TikTok Shop sellers never make it past their first few months.

Ian breaks down the exact strategies and mindset shifts that separate the struggling majority from the elite few who are building million-dollar brands on the platform.

What You’ll Learn

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, I sit down with Ian Page of Bullseye Sellers to uncover the brutal truth about why most TikTok shop sellers never make it past their first couple months. Ian breaks down the exact strategies and mindset shifts that separate the struggling majority from the elite few who are building million dollar brands on the platform.

00:25
But before we begin, want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants.

00:54
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people, so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We’ve sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for high-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be.

01:23
So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now on to the show.

01:34
Welcome to the MyWifeQuarter.podcast. Today, I’m thrilled to have Ian Page back on the show for the second time. And if you do not remember Ian, he is the founder of Bullseye Sellers, where he helps e-commerce sellers launch and succeed on the TikTok Shop platform. Now, in the last episode, Ian gave us a step-by-step strategy on how to get launched and be successful on TikTok Shop. And a lot of people tried it, but obviously we could not.

02:01
cover every last detail about TikTok shop in just a 40 minute episode. So today, I invited him back on the show to talk about the two biggest reasons that TikTok shop sellers are currently failing. And what is interesting about these two reasons is that it is not documented publicly anywhere. And with that, welcome back to the show again. How you doing? Thank you. Try not to be a Debbie Downer on this on this episode. So I’ll try to brighten it up at the end.

02:29
You know, I think it’s better to be a Debbie Downer so that people know what they’re getting into. Right? Yeah. I mean, the worst thing that could happen is you go and you spend all this money and it fails. Right? So yeah, and you know, like, like I think I mentioned last time is part of my sales process is to tell the client everything wrong or all the warnings or all the investment costs or the worst case scenarios because when I do that, the clients always, okay,

02:57
That’s not that bad of a worst case scenario. And what if I, what if my case isn’t the worst case scenario? And at least I know I have a team working with me that is super honest from the gate, right? Yes. I want to do that more on this call too, is just be like super honest out the gate and save you guys a lot of time too. think if I teach some little tricks and tips on how to avoid these pitfalls, I could save you six months of time. Yeah. So I mean, your first episode was very well received. And so I want to actually dig deeper.

03:28
And I kind of want to start. So the last time we recorded was I believe June of last year. Has anything fundamentally changed with TikTok since then? you can’t change? Okay. Well, I don’t know where you want to start. So let’s talk about the changes first before we get into the guts. Okay, good. Okay, so I guess the changes with TikTok in the last six months have been, there’s been a lot more sellers signing up. Okay.

03:58
So that saturation has actually increased TikTok’s probation rules and probation period because their concern is they can’t have people selling products that aren’t actually real, genuine products, uh shipping from unknown origins and shipping times that are impossible. They just need consistent quality on the dashboard. And with this influx of all these sellers, people from

04:28
other countries creating proxy corporations and trying to basically have these workarounds to become a tick tock shop seller. It’s been a big concern for tick tock of how do we make sure the customer experience stays true and honest. So with that, yes, there’s been a lot of additional red tape. does that mean like, I remember when I was on tick tock before there were all these like knockoff purse sellers, you know, like the fancy brands like Gucci or all is all that stuff kind of gone now?

04:57
pretty much it’s cleaning up. It’s cleaning up. And that’s part of the problem, right? Is they open the floodgates and guess what you get when you open the floodgates, you get everything. um So it’s always the same thing happened with Amazon for so many years. It’s like the bad actors have only made it harder for the honest sellers and the Amazon like 10 years, right? I mean, this tick tock shop changes like six months. So yeah, they’re quick. Tick tock is quick. um They’re very fast. I think

05:27
I don’t know if it’s if it’s just how management operates. If it’s cultural being that they’re a Chinese company and that’s more the speed of how they operate over there. I don’t really know what it is. But yeah, they are fast. Okay. Yeah. What about the US purchase? Has that changed anything at all? No, I haven’t seen anything change on that except for more aggressive business development strategy. So I have noticed they launched something called Project Horizon, uh which I feel like I’m literally

05:57
Like when I say that, I feel like I’m talking about some sort of like alien program that no one knows about. Um, area 51 program, but project horizon is something that they’re heavily recruiting me for. And it’s basically a program. I don’t know if it’s public, but I guess it is now, but it’s a program where they highly incentivize, um, agencies to bring in 10 million plus sellers. So if, if, if the seller has to prove that they have sold 10 million plus on Shopify.

06:26
or so not blended together Amazon in the last 12 months. And they’re highly incentivizing agencies like me to bring those sellers in with kickbacks. So this is a new thing. um And the reason being is that they’re they’re actually kind of they don’t really want these tiny little startups anymore. Yeah, they want the established brands that

06:53
they know that they can trust and they don’t have to put through probation. They can basically just whitelist them because they’re like, oh yeah, we know you guys are good. So that’s been a big change. Okay. Are the incentives still out there? Cause I remember back in the day, like they were handing out money left and right to get sellers to come on and subsidizing stuff. Yeah. But have to be, you have to be a much bigger seller to even see an incentive. Okay. You see where back then it was like anybody now it’s like, okay, let’s, let’s make sure you are.

07:24
like really worth our time and then we will give you incentives and some of the stuff that they’re doing for news for 10 million plus sellers kind of unlevels the playing field, Steve, I gotta tell you. yeah, like they’re basically no probation, full whitelist, which means your account is good to go viral right away. ah You’re not limited on affiliate outreach. um You have immediate access to FPT, which is the fulfilled

07:53
by TikTok program. Yeah, which without it, you’re screwed, which we might want to talk about. Yeah. So yeah, so with those things, if you’re 10 million plus seller, and you go through that kind of project horizon program, and you’re white listed, you’re basically ready to start going viral within 30 days, where if you’re an average seller, let’s say 1.5 million a year or something, a Shopify seller, you’re basically going through barbed wire for about 90 to

08:24
120 days. Okay. Well, let’s talk about that barbed wire actually, because uh we discussed a whole bunch of different ways in the last episode on how to get past that cold start problem. And I remember in order to message affiliates, you need sales in order to get sales, you kind of need to have affiliates. And I’ve actually since that episode, I actually know a bunch of people who got past that initial $2,000 sales barrier that we talked about got their affiliates unlocked.

08:50
But then they ran into a slew of problems. So one friend of mine specifically got banned after one late shipment over the holidays. I don’t even think it was his fault. And then he was just shocked that there was like no grace period for any of that stuff. And I know a bunch of other colleagues of mine, just from going to an event, they’ve gotten banned for what appears to be a slew of very minor things. So what exactly is going on here? So

09:17
But you know, the old analogy, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Yeah. So they’re basically throwing babies out left and right right now, because the bathwater was so dirty. So let’s go into the legit businesses, right? mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, they’re, they would never screw anybody order over. uh Hey, I, I have a client that refused to do FPT. This just happened last week. And every single order that came in,

09:46
They literally shipped it in under 24 hours. I’m talking if the order came in at 9am, it was out by noon. They were on it. Right. And they still had seven orders that FedEx failed to scan at the right point. And their shop score went from 4.4 to 3.7. And it’s not even their fault. It’s just FedEx. here’s the deal. TikTok set up way too much, in my opinion.

10:13
The automation and the bots and the, and the sensitivity level of their shop performance score is prohibitive of most sellers. This is the bad news. This is why I’m kind of being Debbie downer here. Okay. Um, they did that because they figured we really want guys who are in FBT. We really want large sellers. We don’t really care if we screw over 3000 mom and pops when let’s just focus on Adidas. Let’s focus on.

10:43
You know, big brands, let’s focus on Reebok. So the probation period, let’s talk about that a little bit. So basically right now in the probation period, you have hard requirements. You, in order to get through it, and even the probation period has four subsets. It has like starter and then it has like pro and all these subsets. So they’re basically judging you across four subsets. And within those four,

11:12
There’s all these like, have to have this, have to have that, and then you graduate to the next one. Okay. And a lot of that stuff is solved by being an FBT. And what FBT really is, it’s basically fulfillment by TikTok. So you’re sending them the inventory, they’re verifying the inventory and now they’re fully responsible for fulfillment. So it removes about 50 % of the BS that you deal with with.

11:40
them trusting or not trusting your fulfillment process. Okay. And it gets rid of all the potential violations. It gets rid of even refund potential violations because they automate it and handle it for you. most people get in trouble with on time tracking, customer messaging, and refunds. Okay. So the last time we spoke getting into FBT was very difficult. Is that still the case? Unless you have an agency? Really?

12:09
Okay. Honestly, it’s been good business for me. Right. It’s it’s been good business for me because I have a guy literally have a guy I call him I say here’s the shop code. They’re they’re approved. It’s it’s not fair. But I have a guy if you don’t have a guy you’re on a waitlist and you’re fulfilling orders yourself and getting and getting bad. Have fun. Have a good time. Does the seller score mean nothing then?

12:36
The seller score that will the shop performance score. Yeah, that’s what I meant. The shop performance score. Yeah. No, no, no. It’s still important. Even if you’re an FPT, but a lot of the metrics that create your shop performance score, a lot of those things that they watch go away with FPT. So now you’re only basically judged on other few points. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I interrupted you. So you were talking about tiers, right? So you said there’s four of them. Yeah. Let me see if I can find them too. I have it written down somewhere.

13:06
Okay, while you’re looking for that, when you start, I’m assuming you’re still in the lowest tier as soon as you hit $2,000, right? Yeah, so the $2,000 part, again, this is kind of a spiderweb. And I don’t expect everybody to totally understand the connecting dots. But the $2,000 part solves a different problem, which is affiliate tiers, right? So there’s probation period, and then there’s affiliate, okay, tiers, okay.

13:36
But it helps with both because in order to get $2,000 of sales, you need to receive orders, deliver the product on time. And that will automatically push you through the line on some of the probation periods because they’re seeing that the product is being delivered on time and they’re like, okay, that’s good. You’ve checked off these boxes, right? Right. Yeah. So we still do a lot of giveaways. We still do

14:02
We still recommend every one of our clients give away $2,000 with a product. We still help our clients get a compliant product reviews because good reviews improve your shop score. That’s another thing. It’s kind of a lot, but the simplicity is as long as you are basically in FBT early on, like pretty much within the first 30 days and from FBT, you have fulfilled some giveaways.

14:32
which are very easy to do. There’s plenty of giveaway services. Selloco is one of them. You’re basically good to go. So I don’t really want to give every nuances to the probation period just because I know that like, it’s actually pretty easy to solve between being an FPT and running successful deliveries and giveaways through your shop. All right. So you’re making it sound like FTP is a is a hundred percent required now today. Yes. Yeah, I wouldn’t do it.

15:02
Really? Okay, so you would not go on TikTok shop at all unless you can get fulfilled by TikTok. I wouldn’t do it. No. It’s too hard. Okay. Well, that’s drastically changed since the last time we spoke. Yep. Right. That has that’s why I said everything right. It’s okay. Like what? It’s like everything’s changed. Right. So here are the four tiers. Okay. Okay. We got beginner. Yep. We got standard, premium and pro and as you can see in and

15:30
this client is now in standard. There’s these four subsets of how to get out of standard and look, they have 4.4 shop score, which is a well done. It’s out of five, right? Yeah. Their shop scores 4.4 out of five. That’s right. And then enforce counterfeit listings. They don’t have any. em They don’t have any counterfeit listings. So they’re under four. um They’ve passed the probation quiz, whatever that means, right? It’s probably a

15:58
a few questions. I wouldn’t know because my team does that stuff. And then they have nine out of 10 active listings. So guess what? They’re not graduated because they need another listing. How they’re not graduated from what tier from the standard. from standard. Okay. All right. Why wild? Yeah, exactly. Okay. Because because tick tock arbitrarily said you have to have 10 live product listings. Interesting.

16:23
Okay. what if you like what the business of like one or two hero products, that’s just not going to fly anymore. You literally have to have 10 products. We can still get you through. Okay. But if you were on your own and you weren’t with an agency, what would you look at? You’d see this and be like, what do I do now? You see what I’m saying? It’s like, it’s not clear. But yes, the answer is yes, we can, we can push you through. Um, because we know that if we force enough of other things,

16:52
these will fall off. But they don’t say that they just say you need these four things to move on to the next tier. Okay. So tick tock benefits do you get for the next year though? I don’t have that tier there. But basically, the benefits are you’re allowed to receive more orders. Your videos get more views. Your GMB max spend performance better. Okay, okay. And I want to be clear about something.

17:21
This isn’t different from Amazon. Amazon just doesn’t tell you about it. If someone launches on Amazon today and they run PPC, they will probably be nodding when I say this. Their first couple of weeks of PPC, they’re not even able to spend. They’re just trying to get it to spend because they’re in their own probation period as well. Amazon has probation periods, but they don’t give you the path. At least TikTok says we’re ghosting you bro. And here’s why.

17:51
Amazon doesn’t tell you that. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free.

18:20
and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. So it’s just like this hidden switch that instantly gives you more visibility is what it sounds like. It gives you more visibility. Okay. It allows you to receive more orders. ah It allows you to get payouts.

18:48
So you can receive more orders that implies that they’re purposely limiting your sales. Yeah. When you’re in that tier. Yeah. 500 a month. Is that new or is that all was that there the last time we talked? It’s pretty new. Yeah. Okay. Last few months. This is kind of ridiculous. Okay. So this is what I’m saying. Like, and this is kind of why, and I got to admit, this is why money has been good. Steve is because people come to me and they’re

19:13
really smart and they’re 15, 20, $30 million sellers and they come to me and they’re like, Ian, I don’t know how to do this because I’m like, yeah, cause it’s rigged. You can’t. So if you do everything right, you’re still maxed out on 500 sales. And it’s just like, it’s, it’s, it’s a very long, tedious process that could easily deter you many, many points along the way, but they come to me and I get them right into FPT. push some giveaways in there.

19:43
I know a hack of how to get a few, I send customers to the store to do some customer messaging. We respond to the customer messaging really quickly. The point I’m trying to make is my team has all these stupid little hacks and then we’re through it. Right. But if you don’t know the hacks. Right. It’s really hard. I imagine they’re there. They did that. They limited sales because there’s a bunch of junk on there before. Right. And you’re limiting the junk factor. I think I, I guess I get it.

20:12
Yeah, they don’t they don’t want a product to go viral. That is actually counterfeit. uh Shipping from an unknown origin that is not within the shipping timeframe that they promise, or all the other reasons why that people can get screwed over. So they’re really, they’re so scared about counterfeit and, and bad actors that they, uh they’re making it very, very difficult for the rest of us. Okay.

20:40
So before we get into the fulfillment part, uh so what are the requirements? You said 10 listings. What about order volume? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And on this one, order volume is not an issue. You just need four orders delivered or something like that. It’s like really small. ah And uh let me go back to my, I won’t share, but I just want to look at my screenshot again. Sure. Yeah.

21:08
This one doesn’t even have any order things. This one’s just you have a good shop score. You don’t have any counterfeit listings. I don’t even know how they verify that you pass a probation period, period. And then you graduate to premium. uh And then from premium, we graduate to pro and pro. That’s when you’re basically fully there’s you’re you’re at no limits, you can go viral, you can sell 15,000 units a day when you’re a pro.

21:35
How long does it take, assuming you’re doing everything correct, to get past that standard tier into premium and pro? I would say for us, we get it done in about 60 days. Okay, so no matter what, you’re still on probation for two months. Unless you’re a 10 million plus seller that I can get you white-listed? Absolutely. Okay. And then, do you know any of people not using Filled by TikTok that are in those highest tiers? There obviously are, right? There has to be, right? No, there aren’t.

22:04
I don’t know anybody. I mean, you asked if I knew him. Yeah. I don’t know anybody. ah But I’m sure there are I’m sure there’s guys who figured it out. And you know, they have a good three PL. Okay. But the point is, is why would you not just go into FPT if you can get there because their fees are really good. um Have I ever showed anyone in your audience the FPTP? No, actually, what I give me an idea, compare those to FBA for me.

22:33
Yeah, well, I’ll just show you the fees right here. And then I guess you can kind of make a comparison if you have a mental idea of FBA, but here it is. All right, I’ll put this up on the screen. And for the people who are just listening to this, guess I’ll try to narrate. Okay, so it looks like anything that’s four ounces or less, one unit order is about 428.

23:02
And anything over four pounds is $7.66. And if they order four or more units, it’s basically half of that, which is way better than at first glance, because I only know certain tiers, it seems to be substantially cheaper than than FBA. And I assume are there like, inbound fees and like fees to ship everything out to the warehouses? This is like just the flat fee, including everything? It’s all included. Okay, way cheaper than

23:31
way cheaper. There are storage fees, but their storage fees are actually pretty reasonable. And you can you can avoid them because they’re, you know, their check in process is pretty fast. So we haven’t had a huge amount of storage fees. But yeah, like, come on to ship a one and a half pound item for $5.71 is ridiculous is ridiculous. You can’t even get that as a seller. So this this reminds me of like old school Amazon back in the day. Yep. Right.

24:01
Which means it’s going to worse. So my point is, Steve, why in the hell wouldn’t you go into FPT? That’s my point. And if they lose stuff, is it the same thing? They refund you the selling price? oh Just like school. There’s a bunch of refund services popping up. We have a whole other ecosystem of get it as popping up for TikTok right now. Okay. And in terms of limits, do they limit you what you can send in? Yeah. You get a square footage. They give you a square footage.

24:30
amount when you’re on, right, I’ll try to find a screenshot because I actually have clients, obviously a lot of clients on but they basically show you they show you like a little bar of like you get up to 50 square feet, and you’re using 15. So you have 35 square feet available. Got it. Okay. So the current strategy today is you get someone on fulfillment and you have a guy

24:59
that you call. And so you start that from day one, basically. Yeah, so literally, we bind them to our agency portal. Okay. And we’re actually finding the moment we bind them. It’s like, greases wheels, that kind of thing. Right. And then we give that shop code to our guy. He clicks a button. I don’t think it’s much more than a button. And then FPT shows up on the dash. And it says, Welcome to FPT.

25:29
It’s like, literally, right. And then all of a sudden, all those fulfillment issues totally go away. Like all the penalties, like my friend wouldn’t have gotten banned, right? Yep. Okay. And then refunds, how do they work? if someone automated, automated, so does that get sent back to you? Or does that go back into inventory? Do you get to decide that? Yeah, yeah, you can definitely decide that. But the automated approval process when you’re in FPT, tick tock doesn’t mess around with you having options. It’s like Amazon, they’re kind of like,

25:58
you’re not going to decide whether we are going to refund or not. We’re just going to you just let us know where you want to send it. That’s it. uh And the refunds haven’t been bad. We have a lot of clients that are under 2%. A lot of clients between one and one and a half. And they’ve actually said that their refunds have been lower on TikTok than on Amazon. And I think that’s because Amazon has made it so easy with UPS pickup and that kind of thing that we’re kind of in a nice honeymoon period. Take talk on that. Who covers the return shipping? It comes out of your fees.

26:28
comes out your fees. Okay. Yep. Okay. And then you pay the film fee no matter what, just like the old school Amazon. Yep. Okay. Yep. There’s a lot of old school Amazon esque factors here. Okay. Let’s see here if I can find through my I’m looking through my agency portal to see if I can find my FPT button, but it’s not showing when I log into my account. So I can’t show you but yeah, I was gonna say the whole square feet thing. Okay.

26:55
That’s okay. It probably works similar to Amazon, right? get, except Amazon does it by units based on your size. Same thing. That’s right.

27:07
All right, so assuming all of those hurdles are gone, uh has the strategy for communicating with affiliates and getting them to make videos and all that stuff, has that changed at all? No, not really. mean, the good thing is the actual human to human relationship is still a very primitive thing, actually. Okay. And that’s probably the one thing that’s never going to change is how is…

27:36
If you have a really good offer and you have a really good product, then you’re going to get a higher response from, better affiliates. like to say the brand does basically earns the affiliates that it deserves. And cause they can look at your metrics. You can look at their metrics. So if you can see that an affiliate is making $50,000 in sales a month, they’re going to look at you and see that your entire shop makes two G’s a month. You think they’re going to want to work with you? Yeah, no chance. uh

28:06
It’s no different than a, you know, me trying to call Dwayne Johnson to do my TV commercial. Same thing. So what we have to do with every new brand that comes in at Bullseye is we have to build an affiliate army. That’s the same size as the brand coming in. So if the brand is, let’s call them a level one brand, we’re really going to look for level one, two affiliates, and we’re going to basically pair up equal levels.

28:33
And then we’re going to have to coach the hell out of those affiliates because they’re pretty raw. They’re pretty green. But what’s fun, and I can show you some viral examples is we’ve had many, many examples now where we have been the big break for these brand new low tier affiliates. And that’s fun. One thing you told me a while back was that those initial sales that you get, those have to be from affiliate videos.

29:03
Yes, they have to be affiliate GMV. That’s right. Okay. So that makes it a lot harder, right? Yes. Because you have your classic chicken and egg problem. So does that imply that? Well, do you guys get around that because you have this network of affiliates that can make the okay, make the videos? No, we get around it from sell a co sell a co is basically a shopper buyback program. That’s all it is. And we recruited some of those affiliates to work for sell a co

29:29
I see. when someone’s setting up a campaign in Celico, you can say, Do you need an affiliate video to even run these giveaways to right? And if they say yes, they just pay us I think I think they’re cheap. I think we’re selling them for 50 bucks a pop usually only need one. And that that affiliate video, there’s a way for us to basically connect your shop with the affiliate manually. Send them a sample, they do the video.

29:56
and then the a Celico video and then the Celico campaign automatically happens when that video posts to your account. It’s all automated for the seller. It’s pretty easy. Yeah, but I’m just saying like without a service like that. mean, it sounds like the classic chicken and egg problem, right? I mean, you need to get sales from an affiliate video, but you can’t even get any affiliates in the beginning or it’s hard to write you get some limited messaging, right? Yeah, you get a sample pack. It’s like, hey, welcome to tick tock. Here’s 1000 messages and you’re like, okay. ah

30:24
But the typical shop gets on average, a new shop gets on average two to 4 % response rate. So if you’re a thousand, you’re getting 20 to 40 responses. And you’re probably gonna say yes to all those people regardless of who they are. Right. Right. And then that video has to generate a sale. guess you that then you can artificially do it, I guess, right from there, you can get someone to buy it. Yeah, like you could just literally, you know, have your have your sister.

30:54
buy from that video. So it’s not that big of a deal. sell a code just speeds it up instead of like going through 1000 people and messing around and sending them samples and all that. mean, you could in theory, I guess be your own affiliate, right? No. Yeah, if you have an affiliate account. Yeah, if you have an affiliate account, okay. Yeah, because your affiliate accounts not tied to your brand account. Right? Yeah, it’s two separate things. um So yeah, back to the affiliate thing. And what we’re getting better at is we’re getting better at cross pollination.

31:24
And I think that’s the thing that agencies do have a leg up is that we take all of our successful affiliates. put them into a VIP group, which is an internal WhatsApp group that we manage. So now we have our, now we have our best guys. Now we have everybody who’s sold at least a thousand. Some of them have sold 10,000. Some of them have even sold 25 K. So when we’re launching a new shop and we got something to immediately tap into, and that’s another advantage of working with.

31:54
an aggregate agency model versus you’re just completely on your own out there in the cold with no leverage. remember you said something to me a while back regarding the number of affiliates that generate X dollars. I can’t remember what the amount was. Something like 2000 affiliates that sell over $10,000 a month. Right. And then there was there was some $5,000, 5,000 affiliates make over 1000 or so.

32:21
There’s not, my point is it doesn’t seem like there’s that many affiliates out there. No, there’s very little. There’s actually over a million, but out of a million, how many, how many people have basically enrolled in the program? I’ve never posted. Okay. Yeah. And then, you know, um, you have probably about 150,000 that are active. I mean, it’s just, it just gets to slim pickings, right? So I actually have some numbers here, um, about the affiliates.

32:51
And it’s pretty fascinating and uh about how little they are and why it’s really important. This is the key here is why it’s really important to build your own level one affiliates and not come in cocky. have to come in humble and those level ones, you have to take a chance on them just like they’re taking a chance on you. And that’s what Tik Tok essentially needs. It needs more sellers that are like,

33:20
Everyone gets a car, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. So that that way we have, can build up these, this affiliate audience. It’s too small. has that, I remember you quoted that statistic to me several months ago. So that hasn’t changed. So TikTok has like an affiliate problem. Essentially it look, I can’t verify my number today. Sure. Okay. I just can’t, but that, that number always stuck with me and so, so check this out.

33:50
85 to 90 % of all affiliates have little to no GMB at all. Okay. Most level one affiliates will never even generate a sale statistically. Okay. Level two affiliates make up roughly eight to 12 % of the ecosystem. Okay, level two is 5000 bucks. Right at eight to 12%. Then

34:15
I think it goes into level three here. Hold on. Let me see level three and above represent only one to 3 % of affiliates. And that’s where you get into the 10 G’s. Right? I’m one to 3%. I mean, even 10 G’s doesn’t sound like that much. It’s not because I’m looking like I’m an affiliate, but I’m not an affiliate for physical products, more for services. And like, those numbers are minuscule, right? Yep. Compared to

34:44
the affiliates. So okay, can we just take a step back then and just kind of talk about like the TikTok shop opportunity. uh So you worked with a bunch of level ones, I kind of cut you off when you’re about to tell that story. But can we can we delve deeper in that one story you’re about to tell? Yeah, so basically, and this doesn’t look good on video, but I’m going to try ah because my web guy has been messing with my website. But let’s share share.

35:14
tab. So here’s some examples of videos that have gone viral in the last three months. We like to update our carousel here. um Every one of these and this is what’s cool to me is every one of these sellers was level one and level two. Okay. So people listening in the pod, I’m looking at three videos, one got 4.1 million, one got 1.31 million, and the other one got 7.8 million views. Yeah, this guy fully this guy in the right.

35:43
selling this pop up greeting card, fully cleared out my client on Amazon and on tik tok. Wow. And his manufacturer is scrambling. You know, it’s always a shock when it happens to you. Right? Yeah. This girl has got 9 million views. She’s a rock star. She was nothing. When we started. I mean, she was like 500 bucks. When we started, right now, we’ve paid her over $30,000 in commissions in the last 60 days.

36:13
She’s kicking butt. So this is why, uh, basically what tick tock really needs is more of these relationships to, because everyone has to have a big break, right? You know, all these high affiliates, this one here, 2 million views. She’s killing it. She created a bunch of copycats for herself that are coming in and copying her videos, which is always fun. Um, this guy, all this guy did was a point of view video, meaning his hands.

36:42
30 seconds of his time, he got four and a half million views and sold over 150 grand worth of poop bags. That’s so easy. Yeah. Okay. So I just wanted to comment for the people listening. It seems like most of the products I’m looking at here are creams or some sort of a consumable or skin or something like that, right? Beauty product, maybe there was one that was a really cool pop-up greeting card. And then the last one that you just mentioned is literally poop bags. Yeah.

37:12
Yeah, yeah. And this toy here crushed it over the Christmas season. Right. This is this is a fun toy. It’s really hard hand eye coordination toy. It does really well on video. Yeah, poop bags. Yeah, I know. I know. And I actually tell people if I can sell poop bags on TikTok, I can sell anything. Well, I the outlier here is poop bags because the last time we spoke, you said beauty products, maybe unique toys, but there’s nothing unique about poop bags. You know what?

37:38
There was a third component. I don’t know if I told you that but a really good offer. I don’t care how good the offer is on a poop bag. mean, what was why did the poop bag work? It was a good offer. It was a really good offer. It was basically like a huge like one year supply of poop bags with this awesome poop bag holder that you see right here in the corner of the video. Yeah, it’s also a name brand that everyone knows. Right. So you know, these guys are in every pet smart target in United States.

38:07
So you get a little bit of extra. And when you have a little bit of a brand name, and it’s a great offer, people just kind of go for it. Okay, and those two kind of have to happen together. Okay. mean, what’s most interesting is that outlier actually, because if someone went up to me and said, Hey, I sell poop bags, should I go on to shop? I probably would have said no, right? And you do. Okay. I’ve learned a lot in the last six months. Any other outliers like that? Because

38:35
I know a lot of people listening out there, they’re not selling beauty or, you know, lotions or anything like that. Right? Yeah. So at the end of the day, TikTok surprises me all the time. Like I say stuff and I’m pretty excited when I say it and I’m pretty definitive. And then a month later, I’m like, wait, you know I’m saying? I miss something. Or I maybe I didn’t think of that. Um, but when I say it, I’m a hundred percent sincere and honest at the time. But what happens is I’m evolving and I’m learning.

39:04
Because we manage almost 100 brands. So I’m shocked on a daily basis. Did I ever think that a year ago I’d be selling greeting cards on TikTok? Hell no. I would never would have thought that. These guys are going to do a million dollars this month. It’s crazy. know, and they were at $4,000 in December. Crazy. $4,000 in December to a million dollars in January. That’s the power of TikTok. Yeah. So I’m learning a lot.

39:34
So yeah, a good offer is probably my third pillar. know, my, my, and my first two are still true. You gotta have a really good demonstrable video, like, like something that shows well, and then you have to have a unique selling proposition, right? Which is what I said earlier, something that like shows before and after shows that it solves a problem. Um, a good example is this, this girl here selling the serum. Um, this might be a little X rated, so I’m going to keep it. I’m going to keep it PG 13, but, um,

40:03
She found a use for this product that really helped make downstairs look a lot better in a bikini line. Okay. Okay. And this isn’t what this isn’t what it’s for. It’s actually for back acne. It’s for body acne. But she is an affiliate. She does what the hell she wants. Okay. She takes our script and throws it out the window and says, No, here’s what this does. And I’m going to prove it to you. She does a video that shows before and after she kind of like blurs things out. And it’s actually

40:33
amazingly compelling. It’s like, wow, your bikini line before and after actually looks 1000 times better. And that video goes viral. Yeah. So I get it. You know, you get it, right? That’s why it works. And then on the poop bag one, we were shocked. We didn’t think it would work. But this guy was like, bro, I buy poop bags every day. These are like half the price you’re gonna get in the store. It’s an amazing deal. You know, you’re gonna buy poop bags anyway. Everyone needs poop bags. So you might as well just get him at a deal. People went, you’re right.

41:04
Yeah. All right. So let’s, let’s sum up what we’ve, what’s different actually. So number one, seems like fulfilled by Tik TOK in your opinion is required to not deal with any of the BS that’s happening with like my friends, for example. Right. Yep. And then in order to get into that, to grease the wheels, an agency partner is the fastest way to do that. Yep.

41:32
And I know you would say that sincerely, you wouldn’t just say that just because you run an agency. No, and honestly, I’m gonna say no to probably some people that call me and, and be, you know, and tell them other agencies to work with if, if, if we’re a little bit busy, like, I’m not just doing it so that I get I get the clothes, you need an agency. And I need one that has connections at TikTok. And then TikTok is going through this phase right now where they’re just trying to take away fraud.

42:01
because it did go crazy nuts and there was all these negative press. And so maybe that’s why they’re reacting the way they are. So right now, at least it’s hard to get anywhere without an agency partner to help vet you. Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. And for someone who wants to do it themselves, go to sell a code.com S E L L I C O.com do a giveaway campaign. It’ll take you three minutes to set it up. I’m telling you.

42:29
takes three minutes and just run giveaways to your shop. And that’s going to handle 50 % of your problems just because you’re going to be able to say, look, I fulfilled the orders myself. They’re successful. Improve your shop. And tick tock looks at those orders like the real orders. And then get on the FBT waiting list the moment you can. And then if you’re going to fulfill it, have Amazon fulfill it. Amazon and tick tock are somewhat jiving right now.

42:59
So just do MCF and you you’ll have a, have a better cadence than some three PL who doesn’t know tick tock. So just have Amazon fulfill it for the first few months until you’re approved. The second year approved FPT cut that Amazon thing off as fast as you can and run over to FPT and you’ll pay about half the price. Is there a harm in, sticking with FBA? Yeah. So expensive.

43:29
MCI aside from that. I mean, there’s also logistical issues, right? You’re splitting your inventory and there’s no fulfilled. There’s no MCF for tick tock shop, right? Yeah, so there is a harm. tick tock now has a badge. If you’re an FPT on the product page that says three days shipping, fulfilled by tick tock. It’s prime versus non prime now. Exactly. Exactly. And you don’t get that badge with Amazon, right? MCF. Yep. So, you know,

43:58
I think a lot of this is going to chill out. think the pendulum swings that are going so crazy on both ends are going to eventually chill out. um but just it, Tik Tok’s such an opportunity. I’ve never seen anything that’s changed lives. Like Tik Tok has, I got off a call with the owner of that serum with the, with that black girl that did that video. Yep. And the owner was just like almost in tears, just thanking me. And it was like, so moving to me.

44:27
that to see someone that was like, so her life was changed. She was like, my Amazon’s up 30%. My tacos are down. I can’t keep my stock in. I have access to capital where I didn’t. It’s just like, that’s what gets me on a bed in the morning is when I have those conversations. So yes, TikTok is a nightmare, but it’s also where your wildest dreams come true. Ian, where can people reach you?

44:56
bullseye sellers.com. uh Yeah, and you can you can book a call there and uh and uh I might not be able to join every call but if I like your product and and uh I see that it has potential and I don’t care about your revenue. don’t give a shit. If you’re doing 50k a month. I don’t care. If I like your product. I think it’s fun and it’ll be good for tick tock. I will book a call with you after you call it after you book a call and I will have a one on one with you.

45:25
Cause I love the journey. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I will link that up in the show notes, but, Ian, uh, thanks for coming on again and being so honest about TikTok shop. Like I’ll never get a rah rah TikTok shop interview out of you, you know, Hey, did I end on a high note though? You brought me down and he brought us all back up at the end. So, and, and on the next episode, conspiracy corner.

45:55
We’ll go into those aliens and big foot and we’ll go down that rabbit hole in the next episode, Steve. Well, cool Ian. Thanks a lot, man. And I will see you at seller summit in April. I will be there. I’m going to do a, I’m going to give you my 45 minutes. Hopefully you won’t depress the audience. You’ll, you’ll bring them back up at the end, but yeah, I’ll bring them all back up. And I’m sure by then things will change again. So if you want the latest, make sure you guys stop by the event as well. All right. Thanks a lot, Hope you enjoyed this episode.

46:24
If you plan on selling on TikTok Shop this year, I highly advise that you at least send in an email, even if you plan to go about it yourself. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 623. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person, in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event.

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622: Live Selling Strategies Top Sellers Use to Dominate in 2026 With Gracey Ryback

622: How Live Selling Is Crushing Traditional E-commerce With Gracey Ryback

In this episode Gracey Ryback and I dive into the live selling phenomenon that’s turning ordinary people into 6 and 7 figure sellers on TikTok, Amazon and social media in a matter of months.

Youโ€™ll learn why this shopping format is exploding right now and show you the strategies top sellers are using to rake in thousands of dollars per stream.

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Transcript

00:01
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, Gracie Ryback and I dive into the live selling phenomenon that’s turning ordinary people into six and seven figure sellers on TikTok, Amazon, and social media in a matter of months. You’ll learn why this shopping format is exploding right now and show you the strategies top sellers are using to rake in thousands of dollars per stream. But before we begin,

00:27
I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at Sellersummit.com and if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. There are no corporate execs and no consultants.

00:56
Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate. We cap attendance at around 200 people so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We have sold out every single year for the past nine years, and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to the 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for higher-level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be, so if you want in,

01:24
Go over to SellersSummit.com and grab your ticket. Now onto the show.

01:34
Welcome to the My Wife, Quitter, Job podcast. Today I’m excited to have Gracie Ryback on the show. Now, Gracie was introduced to me by my friends over at Lunch with Norm, and I’m really glad that we connected. She is a top Amazon influencer and content creator known for her expertise in influencer marketing and short form content. Now, back in 2020, she started sharing Amazon product deals just for fun. I don’t even think she had a plan, and before she knew it,

02:03
she had cracked the code on Amazon influencer and affiliate programs. And now she is one of the go-to creators that brands work with and they want their products to actually move on platforms like TikTok Shop. And she has also become a major voice in the Amazon creator space, teaching sellers how to use real authentic content and influencer partnerships to grow their brands. And with that, welcome to the show, Gracie. How are you doing?

02:29
Hi, Steve. I’m excited to be here. Thank you for having me excited to talk about this fun topic. Absolutely. Yeah. And I am curious, like, how did you get started in e commerce? And was this like a pandemic thing? Like you were stuck at home and decided to just make tic tocs? It was such a pandemic thing. I was working a remote job like literally March 2020. I started that. And I think what my best friend introduced me to tic toc and I was definitely like a watcher of videos for a

02:57
few months and then towards kind of end of 2020, I was like, for absolutely no intention of any expectation, let me just start making videos of Amazon deals that I’m finding. And very unintentionally, that turned into, long story short, some Amazon sellers finding my videos, reaching out to me and then asking me to do videos for them. And that’s when I got catapulted into this world of

03:25
affiliate marketing, I had really no clue what it was before I was already deep into it. And then the brand owners I had met through it kind of introduced me to this world. And it was it’s a very deep world. And I’ve learned so much from that point. And then from there, I know you’ve been involved in Amazon live also. Is that still alive? Or is that kind of dead? Because of TikTok? So

03:52
It’s interesting. And I would say that it’s kind of different from what is possible on TikTok. know, most of TikTok live is very much like similar to Instagram live, where you prop up your phone and you’re kind of just chit chatting. I would compare Amazon live to a more formal type of live streaming where, you know, you have products like preselected, you have a set plan in place. You’re probably planning to go live for one to two hours. And maybe you have like a theme like

04:21
a get ready with me or today I’m talking about this specific brand. And I’ve seen more uh brand partnerships come specifically to Amazon Live rather than TikTok Shop live streaming, but that’s definitely changing. I’m seeing more happening on TikTok Shop live for sure in the last couple of months. ah But Amazon Live is still uh a thing. do see more creators. I do see more creators kind of

04:50
coming from a brand partnership place rather than like, I’m just gonna go live for the fun of it. I think going live for the fun of it is a TikTok or Instagram thing. think um having a more specific plan is an Amazon Live thing. Okay, because I know, you in China, live selling is like all the rage right now. And then we’re always like a couple of years behind. oh So are you seeing that already happening with like maybe some of your clients, Amazon Live, TikTok Live? I have definitely seen a lot of

05:19
success come from TikTok lives. But I think what I have discovered is that it’s not always just big numbers and big dollar signs that you should believe came organically. I think a lot of what TikTok shop live success came from is a lot of money directing traffic to that live stream and a lot of like pre-preparation of sharing the live stream, marketing the live stream, a lot of brand resources being poured into those live streams. I have yet to see

05:48
too much success come from just non-brand supported or organic live streams. always really been so fascinated by the success that China has had with live streams. And I’ve always wondered like, why can’t the US get there in the same way? And my personal hypothesis is that in America, we are getting sold to from every different direction. And I feel like people are feeling fatigued from getting like product pushed at them all the time.

06:17
That might be the case in China, I’m not sure. But I feel like that’s why Americans are less liking live streams rather than how China has done it. So you don’t think it will be as crazy as it has been in China for like the last couple years? We’re not there yet. Could we get there? I think if there’s a shift, we could. But I don’t think we could say we’re nearly there yet. Okay. You know, what’s funny is my mom buys all of her products.

06:47
from QVC and the Home Shopping Network. But that’s probably just her age demographic. Like she’ll literally pick up the phone and like dial to actually buy the item. It’s pretty funny. I remember like, I remember adults doing that, like when I was younger, and I have certainly never done that. But I definitely know it’s still happening. QVC is like alive and well. So it’s definitely still out there. And I mean, as you said, there are people still dialing up the phone and be like, I want this.

07:17
For a pretty high price as I’ve seen QVC. Yes, yes, it gets taken a lot for a lot of junk. Okay, so let’s let’s switch gears just to kind of talk about ecommerce Amazon. So if you were to start a brand today, and let’s talk about organic short form first, which platform would you choose? Still today, tick tock as the best top of funnel to get started with. And I always say, pick one platform to create content for and then repurpose that

07:46
one piece of content into any other platform you can. And so if you create for TikTok, that style is more likely to work on Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, Amazon storefronts, rather than creating for Instagram and hoping that it works for TikTok, I’ve noticed. So what are the differences in the types of content that work on TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube shorts?

08:12
So YouTube shorts algorithm is definitely a lot slower to push videos out. Instagram and TikTok are like more similar, but I would say that with TikTok, it’s a lot more raw and messy. And you’ll see videos with millions of views with some girl, no makeup, in bed, bonnet on, just saying a random thought that she had. And if people liked the thought that she had, it might go viral.

08:41
But on Instagram, definitely is a lot more still, as it always has been, more curated, more aesthetic, more high quality professional. Like, here’s a recipe. Here’s an outfit idea. Here is, you know, home decor. Everything is really pretty well lit and curated, as opposed to TikTok. It’s kind of messy. It’s in the moment. It’s authentic and relatable, if you will. And so that’s still the case. um But I’ve also seen more like raw

09:10
unedited, unperfect content, imperfect content on Instagram more successful recently. So it sounds like Instagram takes more effort, right? Yes. Okay. So if you’re going to do it, just start with TikTok and just post the exact same content on both. is what you’re doing. All right. So let’s, maybe we should just like make up a hypothetical brand here. uh What are you into? I’m into

09:38
I like beauty stuff because not because I’m like, I like beauty and makeup, but because it has a good before and after that you can show really quickly. And that I think converts well. let’s, let’s use beauty if you. Sure. Okay. Let’s use beauty. uh Okay. What types of content, you know, cause it’s a first off, do you have to post every day? So my personal formula is I’d rather somebody post quality over

10:08
quantity, but with consistency in mind. So if you’re going to post three low quality videos just to get something out there, I think that’s less of a good strategy than if you were to think a little bit harder about like, am I providing value in this? Is this something I actually am getting something from when I watch this video? And uh thinking a little bit more about the quality and the lighting and the energy that you bring to it. uh

10:38
So I wouldn’t say like post every day you’ll see success. I think it’s make sure you’re posting something good and then being consistent at it. So I’d rather you do three times a week good videos than crap videos once a day. Okay. And then when you say quality, you don’t mean production quality, right? Slightly. Like I think the very basics are having good lighting, the video is not blurry. You’re not like the sound isn’t warped and you’re not like in

11:08
you know, in a windy airplane or something, like, at least have clear audio, good lighting. That’s like, I feel the basics. If you don’t have these two basics, you can assume that your video probably won’t perform. And then quantity, would you say like the minimum would be three times a week? Yeah. Okay. Because I’ve been told like, you know, multiple times a day, especially if you’re trying to scale. That’s a great way to burn out really quickly. Right.

11:37
because anybody, no matter who you are, you will run out of ideas eventually. And then eventually the pressure of like, I ran out of ideas, what do I do today? How do I get something out there? And then like that pressure is going to kind of mess with your creative creativity. And so I think, I think batch posting is great. I have like a running list of ideas that I might get at 3am in my head and then actually film it and batch it like a week later.

12:07
quality I think is still going to be a priority over getting something out there when it’s bad. I mean, that totally makes sense. Do you have like a content bread and butter? Because I think what most people have problems with is what do I put like if I own a brand, like what am I going to post? And I think so many brand founders at least the consensus that I’ve heard is like, I don’t want to put myself out there. I don’t want to, you know, yeah, I’m not interested. I’m not a social media person. The thing that I think

12:38
Um is missing from brands is the human factor something that I actually learned from our friend kevin king is He said what’s going to make the difference between you and your competitor is the story behind your brand if you can share that story whether that be a founder story or um, might be the story of a mishap a mistake that you made in your business that caught you this but whatever That’s actually so much more important than any kind of marketing

13:07
ads you can run, campaigns you can do with an influencer. If somebody can see, this person is the one who created this brand. This is their why behind creating this brand, and this is their process behind it. That’s actually really fascinating to somebody completely uninvolved in the e-commerce side of things. Take somebody who’s just a normal buyer, a normal consumer.

13:30
Like this is fascinating. had, you know, still so many people think Amazon is not a marketplace. They’re just like, it’s like Jeff and us and like, it’s just Amazon to consumers. They have no idea there’s like small sellers and you know, individuals in the middle that are actually doing the selling. They have no idea. So when they come out with the human factor, that’s a huge, huge, huge differentiator between one brand versus the next. Let me give you an example here. So

13:59
I’ve been trying to get my wife to do a TikTok channel for our brand, for example, and she doesn’t want to be on there. And I mean, we sell handkerchiefs, right? We don’t want some middle-aged Chinese dude hawking handkerchiefs, although it might work, I’ve been told. So you do the founder story and then you, you know, maybe you talk about like the process, how we process orders and we’re talking like one post a day, right? You’re going to run out of that really quick. So I’m just kind of curious, like what your mix is. Like if you were to…

14:26
If a brand came to you and said, hey, I need to create content, like I need a list of things that I can even talk about. Yeah. Indefinitely. Yeah. So there is two types of important content. There’s nurture content and then there’s reach content. So you need reach content to reach new people. You need nurture content to keep the people you have around and interested. So it involves a mix of everything with that reach content. I would suggest.

14:55
Hopping on trends. There’s constantly trends that you can hop on every single day October 1st hop on the it’s the first of the month trend You could take a video of you sitting at your computer at your desk write like a quote not necessarily like an inspirational quote, but something like Something useful something valuable like a little quote It could be a five to seven second like b-roll clip of you at your computer that could go viral um you can also hop on trends like

15:24
For example, Taylor Swift’s album just came out. You could use her music, incorporate her music into like your business. There is always a trend that is happening that you can hop onto, make it relevant to your brand. And that’s your reach content. The nurture content might be a little less viral. That’s not for the big views. That’s for, you might get a few hundred to a thousand views on it and that’s okay, cause that’s like your nurture. So that could be a one plus minute video of you sitting there being like,

15:53
Today, I ran out of stock and I lost my rank. And this is what it means as a business owner. Today, I had to buy more inventory and I’m out of money right now. That’s the life of a business owner. It’s not always glamorous and money and successful. Oh, this is our new launch. Check this out. Here’s a handkerchief. It’s made out of this. Here’s how I use it. It’s on sale if you guys want. There’s a bunch of different stuff. But if you only rely on your life and your brand, you could run out of stuff really quick.

16:23
But if you look at the greater ecosystem of what’s happening on TikTok and then you jump in with your angle, that’s like, you can never run out of stuff with that. Okay. And then what is like a good mix of nurture content, uh growth content, and what about just flat out? Like does flat outs mentioning your product work also, or is that going to nerf the reach? I think em if you are a brand and you are nonstop, just hustling and selling your product and bringing no insight or value or entertainment, you might not grow that.

16:53
Right. That’s like the reason for the reach content. If you’re talking post cadence or like how much reach versus how much nurture. Yeah, percentage wise. Yeah. Okay. So I’d say 30 % reach. Okay. 70 % nurture, I think. Okay. All right. And then when you decide to mention your product, it’s just like a casual mention, right? You don’t have to mention any links or anything like that, right? That’s a no no.

17:21
You know, at this point, given that we’ve already been in this world of people buying stuff from social media, I think people know, OK, like, where do I find the link to this? Is this a TikTok shop link? uh I’m going to go to their profile and see if there’s a link or most most likely they’re going to just search the brand name on Amazon or Google. So that’s why I always say instead of saying click the link here, go to the shopping cart. You just say, oh, this is the brand name handkerchief. Da da da da da da da

17:51
So people will know, oh, this is the brand name, Hankerchief. Let’s see if it’s on Amazon. Or you could say, it on Amazon. And there you have search, find, buy. And you didn’t even mean to do it. Right. Yeah. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in e-commerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text based tutorials.

18:19
that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. Okay, so what you mentioned in terms of the reach content implies that you need to be a consumer of TikTok content, right?

18:48
Yeah. Is there a quick way to like figure out what the trends are or something like that? A separate site or some resource for that? Sure. So there’s a couple of sites that could give you insight as to what’s trending, but there is, and this is why I say scrolling on TikTok is part of my job because it really truly is.

19:13
Until you have consumed enough content to understand what separates a good video versus a bad video, you’re always gonna wonder, why did my video flop? What am I doing wrong? You can’t know until you have seen both sides of the spectrum. And then I, at this point, can look at a video and not see the views or comments or insights, and I can know this is a viral video versus not. Simply based on the hook, the cadence, the lighting, the sound, these factors,

19:42
Viral videos always have a reason that they’re viral. This is not like- Okay, what you said was very interesting. Can we break that down? Like what is in your head that you know? Like, you put that in words? Yes. So what makes a viral video? So first and foremost,

20:00
If you don’t have a good hook, you don’t have a good video. So there is so much importance and weight on the hook of this video. So it could be you like doing something in the camera really quick, flashing something. It could be a closeup of something kind of like, as a viewer, you’re like, what’s going on here? um Or you could say something really controversial, like click, bake, hot take, like, know, whatever, feel like. um You can start with saying like,

20:29
Why is nobody talking about how come I didn’t know? um I just discovered it. I I just changed my life like whatever and then like go into something completely like not life changing. But at least you have the person’s attention to for them to even give you the opportunity to say whatever you have to say. So like first and foremost, it has to have a good hook. If a video starts out, hey, I’m Steve. uh I wanted to talk about like, bye. Like, that’s not going to work.

20:57
Okay, first and foremost. Second of all, like I said, lighting, sound, that’s like the basics. Have good lighting, have clear sound. Second of all, hopefully it has one of these following things. It has value, it has entertainment, it has education, or it has something of substance to share. So at the end of the video, you either get more insight, more education, you’re laughing, you’re sharing. Like this is the stuff that makes people share it and save it. This is a recipe I wanna make later, save.

21:25
Oh my God, this is funny. It’s like talking about the new album and I’m gonna share it with my friend who is also talking about this to me. I’m gonna share it to them. So this is the stuff that, or something controversial is like, oh my God, this changed my life. I discovered coffee this morning and everyone’s like, that’s not life changing. And so like the comments are going off. Most of my viral videos, people are like talking in the comments, they’re arguing, they’re saying I’m wrong. They’re saying I said something wrong. Like this is not necessarily a bad thing to maybe make a mistake, make a typo.

21:52
say something click bait here. you that on purpose? Or was that just completely by accident? I’m the way I did it. It was an accident. I said Auntie on’s like Auntie and Oh, yeah, the pretzels. Auntie in like a weird accent and everyone’s like, Oh, the ones but everyone was saying on the on so it went viral. So this is the stuff of a viral video. If you’re just sitting there like, oh, like come shopping with me. It’s a vlog but you don’t have a following yet. Ask yourself

22:22
Why would people care to watch a stranger go shopping unless there’s something valuable coming from it? Right. Once you’re famous and have that, go shopping. People want to know what you’re shopping for. until you get to that point, you have to lead with education, entertainment, or value. Do you care about length at all? TikTok is pushing videos over one minute. However, unless you really have the ability to keep someone interested for over a minute,

22:50
I would say keep it 30 seconds to 45 seconds. The thing is, if I can keep it under 30 seconds, I will because there’s the scrubber bar where you can like jump to a certain point in a video on TikTok. If it’s under 30 seconds, it doesn’t have the scrubber bar. So if somebody wants to see something in the middle of the video, they have to watch the whole video again. So that obviously helps if you can keep it under 30. And then in terms of determining the ROI, which is another question I always get, right?

23:19
There’s always a halo effect when you do this stuff, but is there a way to measure it? I think we’re trying to figure out right now. As of right now, today, I don’t think there is because this is like, how do you measure brand awareness? How do you know how many people saw the video and now know your brand exists? And now might be like being like, oh, like if I ever need this, I’ll come back to it. But I at least know that this is out there now.

23:47
That is something so valuable to just be discovered and be known and like for your brand name to be in people’s brains. But how you cannot really track that or ever know, but it’s happening. And this is the halo effect. So you might get that search, find by on Amazon. You might not, you know, get all the attributed clicks through affiliate links or attribution links that you can calculate. So this kind of ROI is so hard to measure, but brand awareness is very important and should not be discredited.

24:17
Let’s switch gears a little bit. uh Let’s say you’re willing to create one TikTok per day. But then on the flip side, also, you could be spending time getting influencers to create the content for you. How do you make that decision? And which one will be more effective? At what budget? I know it’s a complicated question, but I think you get what I’m asking. I get what you’re saying. So as the founder, you have your own insights and value.

24:47
to bring and nobody knows your brand better than the founder themselves. I was on a call one time with a brand and she was literally saying like, I don’t want to be in front of my product, but my product works. I had eczema and I use my product. was the only thing that it, and I’m like, why don’t you just put up your phone and tell me what you just say to the phone, what you just said to me and like you sold me. So like you just did it right then and there. part of this

25:13
for brand owners and founders is that they feel like social media is this huge, scary influencer thing when they’re doing it already by just sharing with their friends and family that their own product works. Anyway, so to answer your question, I really like the strategy of using UGC and then using the content that actually converts and using paid ads behind it.

25:39
So I think at this point, I’m seeing more and more brands not only just depend on an influencer video to organically do well, but they’re always asking for the ad codes or the spark codes to then boost that video as well. every platform as I’m seeing literally starting from Q4 this year is becoming more of a pay to play platform, unfortunately. organic reach is at least as I’m seeing it dying.

26:06
even Amazon and TikTok themselves. TikToks like use the promote video feature. TikToks like here’s how to promote on Meta. So at this point, I think driving traffic, paid traffic to an affiliate link used to be against terms, but now they’re really pushing and supporting it and brands are as well. So not every video that an influencer does organically for you will result in good views or good sales. But what you can do is if it does a little bit better organically, choose that piece of content.

26:35
Use organic video to kind of test what’s good, what’s not. If it does well organically, boost it with ads. And that way you’re not paying a huge flat fee to a bunch of influencers. UGC is much cheaper. And if you use, you know, softwares that do UGC, typically they give the brand or the seller the rights, the copyrights to the content. So you can post it on your own feed or you can run ads, whatever you want to do with it.

27:04
All right, so what I’m hearing right now is organic reach. Maybe they’ve made some changes, but it’s not nearly as what it was like several years ago. And so that implies that creating your own organic channel is not going to be as effective, right? It’s lower. It’s harder. It’s more saturated and brands want, you know, pay to OK, so in terms of your time, then would you just jump straight to like UGC influencers?

27:33
Maybe putting out your brand story, but not being as consistent with it. It depends on the brand and the owner. It depends how much you are able to dedicate to it. It is never a bad idea or a waste of time to get content on social media about you or your brand. That is never a wasted effort. is always like a small, think about like it’s stock investing. Like every penny that you put in today is going to result in gains one day.

28:01
The only way to not get gains is if you stop investing. with social media now, we’re seeing the death of hashtags and the rise of SEO. So now TikTok and Instagram are taking the words that you say, the captions that you put, the text on the screen. And like literally AI is like looking at what’s in the video. You can now tap on a TikTok and it’ll show you similar products. So you can shop everything in the video without the creator doing anything about it. So.

28:30
At this point, it is so important to use SEO and get content out about your product because Google is indexing these SEO things in TikTok, Instagram, whatever short form content and putting it into Google searches. just know that in the future one day and already happening, your video is going to be found when people search your brand or when people search your product. OK, so I mean, when you phrase it that way.

28:59
it is essential. Correct. Okay. effort at all. It’s kind of like how I see my YouTube channel, right? Although I think I feel like long form YouTube is a much better investment. I don’t know for like a physical products brand, but at least for what I do. YouTube long form is an excellent investment. mean,

29:20
for whatever you’re doing it for, as we’ve seen, like it stays there forever. YouTube is the best algorithm for evergreen content. So again, it’s YouTube is great for longterm. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about the, uh, let’s talk about TikTok cause that seems to be the platform that you like the best. How would I create like an influencer army? Ooh, wow. Okay. So there are,

29:48
ways that you can get. So with TikTok specifically, are you saying using TikTok from uh like a Spotify, or it’s not Spotify, Shopify or uh Amazon brand, or are you on TikTok Shop? Yeah, okay. So that’s the first question I was gonna ask you. How important is it to be on TikTok Shop if you’re gonna do this influencer thing? Yeah, it’s just a really great opportunity with a lot of money. If you don’t want that, like you don’t have to be on it, but

30:17
it is simply going to get more saturated from this point forward. And it is simply just another avenue. There’s not a brand that has joined TikTok shop. Every brand is like wondering, should I be on TikTok shop? Is it worth my time to like get into another platform? But then once they’re actually on TikTok shop and putting in that bare minimum effort, they’re like, oh my God, I can’t believe I even questioned being on this. I’ve made seven figures just from TikTok shop, blah, blah, blah. And that is a great way to kind of

30:47
enter into the creator world and start building relationships with creators. You can start sending out samples through TikTok. You can start building an email list through TikTok. You can also uh have creators invited into a Discord or a community of some sort and then nurture them there and then give them perks. You can offer flat fee campaigns or samples for new launches.

31:16
or you could do higher commission rates just for your little community. Like make them feel exclusive and special because they are. And then that’s a great way right now to grow a creator. And you can’t do that if you’re not on TikTok, right? There’s no easy way for you to give out samples, the whole platform, everything. You have to be on TikTok shop, right? So can you get people, let’s say you just joined TikTok shop just for the sake of joining so you can get access to these influencers.

31:45
Can you do like side deals after the fact if you don’t want to do them through TikTok Shop? Or is that probably not going to happen? No, I think that’s definitely possible. Like I’m in so many little communities of different brands now from TikTok Shop. And I think TikTok actually encourages that. Unlike some platforms where they’re like, don’t talk to our creators, like don’t talk to them off the platform and make your own deals. I think TikTok’s very much open to like join this Discord group or like join this community with this brand.

32:15
So yeah, that’s definitely not something that they are against, I would say. Okay. I mean, I’ve spoken to several people who run TikTok shops successfully. And I guess there’s just a couple of different schools of thought. Like on one end, you just like max out the number of influences you can message a week, which is like thousands, right? I think it’s like 7,000, give out free product. And just over time, you have this army, right?

32:43
On the flip side, I’ve also had people that tell me, hey, just being on TikTok shop and getting creators to do things has already boosted my Amazon sales. And their TikTok shop sales actually are not that great, but their Amazon sales have exploded. There’s your halo effect, right? Because even now, TikTok shop is a great discoverability platform, people still want to go up buy on on Amazon. So people are discovering on TikTok and then search find buying it on Amazon. And that’s why

33:12
you know, whether it be the price is slightly higher on TikTok or maybe the shipping is just longer, or maybe a lot of TikTok shop products still don’t have free shipping. It has to be above the $30 point or have specific shipping requirements. But I’m not going to pay $8 shipping for something I can get free shipping on for Amazon. And this is a big thing for buyers. Like people don’t want to be shipping. So they’re still going to search, find, buy on Amazon. And that’s why your TikTok shop sales might be a little bit, but you’re seeing that result on Amazon. Another thing I want to mention,

33:42
is the higher commission rates on TikTok shop that are required that can really hurt profitability. So a lot of brands go into it and they’re not counting for the fact that like, I have to send out hundreds of samples. And then my commission rates are what minimum 10 to 15 % upwards of 30%. Those margins aren’t built in, you before they start that. all of a sudden, and then they have to pay for GMV max ads, you know, they have to pay for ads too, to really

34:09
get the ball rolling. So they’re like, oh my God, I’m losing money. I’m not profitable. Da da da. It’s like a dead platform. I don’t know why I’m doing this, but that is like a learning curve to get to that profitability. Like that might be where you start, but don’t get scared there because you’re seeing that brand awareness, that halo effect on Amazon. And like, once you get enough sales there, it really does snowball. So I don’t want that to be like a scared, like fearful thing because yes, you are going to have to pay

34:40
for the extra samples and the commission rates and the GMV max and it’s gonna feel unprofitable, but you’re getting so much value that it’s not just calculated in sheer sales. Yeah, it’s just not easily quantifiable like the halo effect. Let me ask you this, I know you work with lot of Amazon sellers, what types of products work well and will you just sometimes tell someone, hey, this product’s not gonna work on TikTok shop? I’ve been surprised before. um So products that are demonstrable.

35:09
are very important on TikTok. I personally have seen supplements do well. I’m not a big fan of them because I like to see like, it’s hard to describe a long-term before and after effect within like a short video without like the process. uh I definitely think there are some products that are very niche or very, very expensive or just hard to describe that might not be.

35:36
a good fit for TikTok shop as much as others are. The good TikTok shop is like demonstrable, a pretty affordable price because again, like the demographic is younger on TikTok and something you can like explain in a video. If it’s something very niche, that’s hard. Because- about something boring? Like would you do TikTok shop for like, I don’t know, office products or something like that?

36:03
Yeah. don’t think boring is like a bad thing. think boring is like, you know, people say like invest in boring businesses because people are always going to need boring things like cookware set. Everyone has one. It’s kind of boring, but like this is doing numbers on TikTok or like an office shelf. People love decor. People like seeing it decorated in different ways. They want to see like organize my office with me. And this is like a perfect natural product placement. So I think boring is not necessarily bad. think maybe uh

36:33
reddish flags are like very niche hard to explain or super expensive. Give me an expensive of something that’s super niche that wouldn’t work. A really expensive camping stove that is geared towards like survivalists specifically not like just necessarily campers and it’s like five $600 and it has like

36:57
weird features that you can’t really like show. That might be a bad example because maybe I think that’s a good example. mean, maybe that would work with the exception of the price part, right? What is the spot for price? Price I want to say like between if it’s over 75 to $100 that that leaves the realm of impulse purchase. Okay, that’s more of like a there’s a there’s a hair dryer product right now going viral on TikTok shop.

37:25
And it’s about $470. And everyone’s like, well, dang, I want it, but I don’t have that. And maybe that’s like just like the loud people in the comments. It’s like, I don’t, I have 10 bucks, but like, but people want to see like maybe under $50, I think is like the, you’re going to hit a bigger population of people who can just be like, okay, like I’ll buy it rather than like, I want it, but it’s kind of out of the budget right now. Is that hairdryer doing well?

37:53
It is doing very well. And I have 170 bucks. Wow. It’s it’s yeah, it’s like a reverse vacuum type of hairdryer and it is doing really, really well shockingly. But I also have seen that it is selling well on Amazon specifically. I haven’t seen how many units they’ve sold on TikTok, but TikTok shop has been doing these like specific sales that are not available anywhere else. So people are going in stores like look at this.

38:22
hairdryer that’s you $200 here, but you can get it 150 on TikTok with a $50 coupon. So that’s that’s like how TikTok is like incentivizing buying there versus store or Amazon. So there are clearly exceptions to the price rule. It’s really just how cool you can make it look in a video. Yes. Yes. Okay. Alright, so let’s say well, let’s go back to the fact that you have a brand now. How do you pick the correct influencers? Like what do you look for an influencer when you’re looking for a brand?

38:52
Never follower count ever. So I will always look at their previous content. That is a really great, that’s their portfolio. That’s a really great way to see like, what can they do? What can I expect? Like what’s their typical content look like? uh I always say, look at their average numbers of views, their engagement, their comments, are people actually reacting to their comment? Do they have good average views?

39:19
If the influencer has like one huge video and like they’re normally averaging 200 views every other time, you can like probably assume that you also will be a $200, a 200 view video because this is a brand deal or like a right video. um Another thing is like when you’re searching for influencers, a lot of even through TikTok’s own catalog of influencers directory.

39:46
they will say like GMV as like a big indicator of like if a creator is good or not. And that is not the best indicator because that GMV could have 99 % come from one viral video. And so that can’t necessarily be applied to the video that they will make you. So the way that I like discovering is I will search keywords. Let’s say hairdryer, for example, hairdryer. I will search that on TikTok.

40:14
go to the filter options and then search most viewed within the last three months or even month. And then this will pop up the most viral videos about hairdryers. And then I will see those creators, which one described the product well, clearly it converted. It was a successful video. ah And then from there, I find like some really good creators rather than just going directly to the directory and looking at all beauty creators. Okay.

40:45
What about at scale? Like, cause when you’re doing TikTok shop and you can message like 7,000 a week. Like does that all go out the window? Like I can’t imagine clicking on each one of those people. No, at some point, like you can find your shortlist. I always recommend having a shortlist of like, these are the creators I really want to work with. I’m going to work extra hard to reach out to them, you know, give them that good commission rates, you know, maybe a small flat fee. These are my priority.

41:11
But at some extent, you’re going to run out of that, and you’re always going to need to scale. So then, of course, there is software, there’s Yuka Helium 10, there’s these mass outreach platforms. And then at that point, it really is kind of like a spray and pray kind of like numbers game, because your response rate is always going to be a small percentage of your outreach. So you might be reaching out to 1,000 creators, getting 100 interested, and you end up working with 5 to 10. Right. Right.

41:40
What’s a good outreach email that a creator is likely to respond to? So I always say, keep it as direct but comprehensive as possible. So I got this email the other, I mean, I get many emails that are looking like, hey, hey, like, and then they’ll say, I’m looking for an influencer. Can you do it? Thanks, brand. And so, you know, when I get this,

42:10
And I’m really stressed looking at all the emails that I have. And so immediately, we have to start this back and forth game of like, okay, like what’s the product that you want? What is the budget here? Like, what are you, are you looking for a TikTok, a live stream of like UGC? Like, what are you looking for? Are you looking for this tomorrow, next month? Are you looking for like Black Friday? um And then like, what’s the goal here? Are you looking for sales? Are you liquidating? Like maybe most influencers might not ask like about the intention behind the

42:39
the campaign. But if you can include this kind of information in that first outreach email and then leave my responsibility to decide yes or no, simplify it for both sides instead of creating like a whole back and forth that’s going to take a week or two to like get to the bottom line. you would recommend like the money and the affiliate terms right off the bat. If you have that and if they’re strict, then yes, I don’t think there’s any problem in asking the creator what is their rate.

43:10
Because sometimes the Spider-Man meme where it’s like, what’s your rate? What’s your budget? But I think if you have a very strict budget, you’re like, I have 50 bucks and I’m not willing to pay anymore, then say that outright. So the other person’s like, I charge 500 a video and you’re like, But if you have the information, say the information outright. If the rate is something you’re not sure about, then fine. Ask what’s the rate. What’s your rate for this? That’s not a big deal. For the clients that you’ve worked with,

43:38
How many influencers do you have to work with in order to give it like an honest shot at this for the people listening who are like, I don’t know if this is for me. I hate to see people give up on influencer marketing or working with creators because I truly don’t see success without it at this point in the game for long. I think influencer marketing is always going to be an important piece of the marketing puzzle. um How many?

44:08
you could get a one-off lucky hit, or you might have to work with 10, 20, 30 before you get the results that you’re looking for. And that’s why I’m also talking about these lower budget costs. Like if you’re paying every influencer a flat fee, like you will run out of money for that quick. But if you work with micro influencers on a performance commission-based way, and then you kind of boost

44:34
ad spend with the videos that actually organically convert, then it’s a lot more less budget heavy and a lot more like performance based. So I don’t know, there’s not a specific number, every brand is different, but I hope that you know, a couple of non viral campaigns don’t doesn’t make a brand give up on it completely and say this isn’t for me. mean, here’s just what I’ve seen, like people go out and they get like 10 influencers and it doesn’t

45:03
have an ROI and they’re like, this doesn’t work, right? Right. And I think especially with influencer marketing, when things are hit or miss all the time, what I was trying to get at is given what you know about like the percentage success rates, I know there’s a ton of variables in there, like what is giving it a good honest try? I would say if you have reached out to 1000s of influencers, and you have over 100 pieces of content, and not a single one of them has

45:32
provided any inkling of sales, success, awareness, views, you could probably be like, all right, I either have to completely change my strategy here or my product just isn’t a good fit. And as a brand owner, you could probably logically think, OK, I understand my product is, because of this factor, maybe not a good fit for this. Or I could see where the friction is on why this is not working. Because at that point, 50 to 100 videos, pieces of content, is

46:03
with for TikTok shop what you need to get into GMV Max. Right. So once you get that, I wouldn’t say that’s like a super hard or expensive thing to do. It does involve outreach and that might be a little time consuming. But once you get to that point and you’ve seen nothing, no organic results, it’s changed strategy. that’s highly unlikely. But yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a different question then. How do you how does one manage interacting with thousands of influence?

46:33
Mm hmm. It’s time consuming, to be honest. Of course it is. That’s like managing thousands of relationships back and forth of, you know, everyone’s different details, different situation. You’re going to need time to do that. em This is something you could get an assistant for. This is something that it would be worth getting like a VA or an assistant for because it is important. But also as the founder, brand owner, like your time might not be best spent here.

47:02
have other important things to do that only you can do. So. I guess what I was getting at was I know there’s all this TikTok shop software out there that like just automatically blasts like your template modifies a little bit. uh Are your clients or anyone using those things or is it? Definitely. I think at this point there’s there’s no better way to get that mass outreach and save time doing that. I think those are a very, very good tool right now to get.

47:30
your product message out to as many creators as possible. um Once you’re playing that numbers game. But I also do want to say, have your short list of influencers, maybe like 2030 that you find and really focus and hone in on those because they’re shortlist for a reason. They’re performing in a niche converting have good content, whatever. And if you have to invest a little bit more in working with them, whether that be flat fee, higher commission, extra samples, try. Let’s tie it all together now. All right, so your brand, you just started out. oh

47:59
What’s your relative priorities between putting out your own organic content, finding influencers or going on TikTok shop and, and, uh, you know, just trying to get influencers that way. If you have a brand being on TikTok shop is a very great way to just grow it. And I don’t see any reason not to be on TikTok shop right now. Brand if you are established on another marketplace beyond take talk shop. Okay.

48:28
especially as Q4, especially now. there’s that. um If you’re talking about like, much do I invest time in my own content versus working with influencers, I’d say make your own content. uh I’ll take the wise words of Gary V here. Document, don’t create. oh

48:47
Like don’t specifically set out time and try to be something you’re not and try to like find ideas out of thin air. Like just document your process, document your thoughts, be real, be honest about it. That’s your job as the founder. It’s to give insight into what your life is like and what you’re doing as a founder or whatever your product. Make that natural. um But I don’t think that should overpower working with other creators. That is like the, that’s the greater picture here.

49:15
So that’s the way to reach more people than like your brand new founder account. So that is a little bit more priority for me than the founder creating their own content. oh But not to say, don’t do it or it’s not worth it. It’s not the priority or focus compared to working with others that could talk about your product. mean, if I can put words in your mouth, you’re basically saying like TikTok shop and working with the influencers would trump your own channel.

49:44
and you don’t even need to have your own channel to make the rest of this work. Whereas the flip side is not necessarily true. If you focus strictly on your own content, it might not go anywhere because these platforms are looking to make money. Right. But I also want to say it’s never a wasted effort. If you can mesh it into your daily schedule in like an effortless way that’s not taking too much time away from everything else you have to do, it’s so worth doing.

50:09
Thank you, Gracie, for that advice. Where can people find you online if they need help in this department or if they want to look up some good great deals on Amazon? Are you still doing that? I am. am. OK. So you can find me on Dealcheats on all platforms, D-A-L-C-H-E-A-T-S. And my email is contact at dealcheats.com if you ever want to reach out. OK. Well, thanks a lot for coming on the show, Gracie. Really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. It was really fun.

50:39
Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’re even half decent on camera, live selling is definitely worth a try. At Seller Summit, my wife actually sold hundreds of dollars of merchandise in about five minutes on stage. For more information and resources, go over to mywifequitterjob.com slash episode 622. And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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621: How Amazon Sellers Are Still Gaming Reviews Without Getting Banned With Dave Bryant

621: How Amazon Sellers Are Still Gaming Reviews Without Getting Banned

In this episode Dave Bryant from EcomCrew and I expose how sellers are still flooding Amazon with fake reviews even after the major crackdowns you’ve been hearing about in the news.

I’ll show you the exact loopholes they’re exploiting right now and why Amazon’s detection systems keep missing them.

What You’ll Learn

  • How Sellers Are Manipulating The Review System Without Penalties
  • How Much Do Reviews Cost?
  • Other Black Hat Strategies Chinese Sellers Are Using
  • Check out EcomCrew for more info

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Transcript

00:00
Welcome back to the podcast, the show where I cover all the latest strategies and current events related to e-commerce and online business. Now in this episode, Dave Bryan from e-comm crew and I expose how sellers are still flooding Amazon with fake reviews, even after the major crackdowns you’ve been hearing about in the news. I’ll show you the exact loopholes they’re exploiting right now and why Amazon’s detection systems just keep missing them. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com.

00:29
And if you sell physical products online, this is the event that you should be at. Unlike most events that are filled with high-level fluff and inspirational stories, Seller Summit is all about tactical step-by-step strategies you can actually use in your business right away. Every speaker I invite is in the trenches, people who are running their own e-commerce stores, managing inventory, dealing with suppliers, and scaling real businesses. No corporate execs and no consultants. Also, I hate large events, so I intentionally keep it small and intimate.

00:56
We cap attendance at around 200 people so you can actually have real conversations and connect with everyone in the room. We have sold out every single year for the past nine years and I expect this year to be no different. It’s happening April 21st to 23rd in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And if you’re doing over 250K or $1 million in revenue, we also offer a private mastermind for higher level sellers. Right now, tickets are the cheapest they’re ever gonna be. So if you want in, go over to sellersummit.com and grab your ticket. Now onto the show.

01:32
Welcome to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today I am excited to have Dave Bryant on the show. Now I’ve known Dave for over a decade now. He is one of the founders of EcomCrew, which was started in 2015. I think we met in 2014. It’s one of the top blogs and one of the top podcasts in the space. And he also has a YouTube channel, which is pretty amazing also. Dave has bought and sold several e-commerce companies at this point, and he’s an expert at selling on Amazon.

02:01
But in my mind, what sets the guy apart is that he doesn’t hold back on anything. And he’ll talk about like the shady stuff that’s going on Amazon. And he’ll literally physically travel to China to visit the epicenter where all the large Amazon sellers live. And today we’re to talk about Dave’s businesses and his advice for how to grow your e-commerce business today. How’s it going Cool, thanks Dave.

02:28
I love the glowing endorsement. So thank you very much. I did like that other video too, I wanted to say, but I just wanted to say though, your last video that I just watched, I really enjoyed it. It was about how Amazon sellers are getting illegal reviews on Amazon. I will link up that video actually in the show notes here, but you spent a lot of time on it. was very well done. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and just to give a quick summary of it. basically Amazon had claimed to shut down a bunch of fake review brokers.

02:58
And it turns out they didn’t actually shut them down. they had kind of filed frivolous lawsuits against these guys and they’d won default judgments. I shouldn’t say frivolous lawsuits, but they basically won a bunch of default judgments against these fake review brokers. But these guys are all based in countries like India and Bangladesh. And really there’s no way to enforce a U.S. judgment in these countries. So these fake review brokers are continuing to operate. You can go onto their websites right now today.

03:25
buy fake reviews for four to five dollars per review. I did actually buy one of these fake reviews and they actually do a really good job of getting you reviews quickly. They look completely legitimate and if you wanted to, you could buy a hundred of these reviews. could buy thousand of these fake reviews for your product and very, very, very hard for Amazon to trace. We’ll get back to that actually, Dave, because I’m pretty sure the listeners are interested in it. uh I want to talk about you first though.

03:55
Here’s my first question to you actually. I want to say about four or five years ago, I remember you and Mike were on an episode of Ecom Crew, where you guys are both giving your own recommendations for e-commerce. And I distinctly remember that you recommended, and I think you and Mike differed on this, you recommend just going all in on Amazon, because Amazon was just growing so quickly. And your opinion was that websites would just get crushed.

04:23
and Amazon would just start dominating everything. Now fast forward what four or five years later, would you still do you still believe that recommendation today? I would believe half of it. So yes, I believe your own website will be crushed for the most part. And there are exceptions to this. There are like the Ridge Wallace of the world, the Vessi shoes of the world who absolutely dominated just with their DTC websites. So yes,

04:49
I do think your own website will be crushed, but I do think there is an alternative now to Amazon. And I think getting back to China, you talked about uh me going over to China and seeing what the e-commerce sellers over there are doing. And in China, anybody who follows e-commerce in Asia overall, whether it’s China or Japan, Korea, they know that live selling and social selling is a huge, huge thing now. And I think it’s making its way to North America now. And the biggest reflection of that are TikTok shops.

05:18
So I think that that is now a viable alternative to Amazon is social selling. I don’t think live selling is quite here just yet, but I think TikTok Shop is a really good example of how you can succeed outside of Amazon and not necessarily with your own Shopify store. And of course you do need to still have your own Shopify store. I just don’t think it will ever be, I shouldn’t say ever, but the vast majority of the time, I don’t think it can be sustainable alone to sustain your e-commerce.

05:46
That is very interesting. mean, that’s where we differ. Like I have like almost the complete opposite philosophy because we make almost all of our revenue from our own store. Right. But I do want to talk about a live sell. Did you want to say something before? No, I mean, there’s definitely situations where you can succeed having your own DTC website. And I think you guys are a great example of Bumblebee, Bumblebee linens where I imagine there’s a fairly high touch.

06:15
with the customer where you’re doing a lot of back and forth with them in terms of their orders and customization. And I think when you get into the situations like that, it definitely makes sense. And there’s a ton of other examples too, but for the vast majority of people, I think on its own, it’s very, very tough to succeed in most niches. would argue that, uh, like you, mentioned Tik Tok shop, like a lot of products do not fall under Tik Tok shoppable territory in my opinion, right? In terms of the type of products.

06:45
It’s almost like you need to sell something that’s super high margin to begin with. Beauty, supplements, anything just kind of unique, right? Yes. Yeah, there’s no, there’s no search intent with TikTok. It’s all discoverability. So if you have a product that somebody discovers and goes, oh, wow, I need this. Yes, works great with TikTok shops. If you’re selling a boat anchor, yeah, probably not the best for TikTok shops.

07:11
You know, Amazon, I want to say, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Amazon cancel their live selling platform? I don’t know if they still have live selling on Amazon or not. I mean, they were going all in with Amazon live, but with Amazon, whatever way the wind is blowing that day, they could kill a project or start a new project. So I’m not sure how Amazon live is doing right now, regardless. It never took off the way they imagined whether it’s still around or not. And that’s where I don’t think live selling is quite here just yet.

07:41
in North America. think we’re seeing like the effects of social selling overall, just through things like TikTok shops and influencers hawking products. But the whole live selling component, it’s no, without a doubt, it’s nowhere near like it is in Asia right now. Actually, can we talk about that? Because when you were there, you kind of witnessed this craze firsthand, right? Like, what is it like over in China right now? Yeah, so Steven mentioned a video that I put out basically going to the Mecca of

08:07
Chinese e-commerce sellers. And basically what this Mecca was, it’s a giant office building and by office building really is, it kind of rivals the Pentagon in size. And it’s basically almost every major Chinese e-commerce seller is based in this one office building. So either they have their main headquarters there or they have branches there, but basically almost every single major Chinese seller is based there. And a lot of the office space there was being repurposed from

08:36
you know, just their marketing offices and doing the day to day operations to now a big chunk of that office space was being repurposed into live selling studios. So you can go rent out a live selling studio within this office building and just do your live selling right there. And they had different scenes for everything. They had, they’d have a Christmas scene if you’re selling Christmas trees. And so you could live sell in a Christmas background, you could live sell in a Thanksgiving background, you could live sell in a forest background. And so they’re,

09:06
just a ton of different variants for how you could sell like the scenes that you could sell in. And it was just basically overtaking this office building in terms of live selling. And they were all curious in this office building. Everyone I talked to is like, look, Dave, we’re killing it here in China with live selling. We have no idea how we could ever do it in America because language is a big issue. Cultural differences is big issue. So it’s really easy for a Chinese seller to sell on Amazon, but they

09:34
hadn’t quite cracked how to sell through live selling in North America. You know, I want to say I saw a YouTube video not too long ago where there’s this street in Shenzhen where it’s literally just littered with people with the ring light and they’re just live selling like, yeah, street full of them. Yeah. Did you witness that firsthand? I never seen live selling on the street. So this Mecca is just on the outskirts of Shenzhen. Okay, I don’t know why you would sell on the street when you can just go to this office building and rent out like this nice warm

10:02
It’s free office. Yeah, that’s true. I mean, I could see it, of course. I mean, I’m just selling a food product or something or uh some running shoes. Maybe it makes sense. But I didn’t see it firsthand. But I definitely did see it within this office building. That’s nuts. And typically, I want to say the US is like a couple years behind China, right? So we’re probably due for that wave coming pretty soon. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think we see it though, in a small, very small little trickle with

10:32
the sudden dominance of influencer led brands. So whether it’s like the Rocks, whatever he’s selling now, Vodka, the Kim Kardashian’s Beauty line, all these influencers, obviously Logan Paul with Prime, a lot of new, very successful brands are being driven by internet influencers. And I think this is kind of like the first baby steps towards getting to the point of live selling. And where the average guy, where Steve Chu can all of sudden launch a vodka or a whiskey or.

11:00
whatever product he wants to launch. even a smaller influencer can have pretty big success. And again, this is my prediction, who knows? The fact I’m predicting it probably means it will never happen, but it does seem that is kind of the way that we will eventually go. Well, okay, well, let’s talk about like this prediction in the context of your own brands. So I know we have, you have an off-road brand, right? Correct. Are you currently, is that mostly Amazon right now? Yeah, it’s mostly Amazon. Okay, mostly Amazon. uh

11:30
Do you have like a content part of it, portion of it that you’re developing? Well, you know, that used to be a pretty big component of, so we run three brands and that was a big component of two of the brands we run oh is we had pretty significant content sites and a lot of that traffic was being directed to Amazon listings. Now, after the Google helpful update of whenever it was, when was it now? 2023 or yeah, it was, yeah. That basically eroded that.

11:59
side of the business and it made that strategy very, hard to succeed it. Now I will say with the off-roading side of the off-roading brand that we operated, that content site kind of went more or less to nothing because of the way that content was. It was written content. That’s why, right? It was written content, but it wasn’t very visual. Now we also have another craft brand, which is extremely visual, which is hard for AI really to replicate. So if you’re trying to show somebody visually how to do something,

12:29
people still want to see images and videos for that. And that content business has done okay. And so that strategy is still kind of working for that brand. Um, so yeah, that was the overall strategy, taking content, using that as a traffic funnel into Amazon and Amazon really love loved and loves when you send external traffic into Amazon. But yes, both of those brands are primarily Amazon. Would you say it was largely because

12:57
the one that succeeded was video content versus written content? Yes, 100%. And not just video, just visual. Just visual. whether images or videos. And obviously video is typically Trump’s images. But anything visual, I think that is still kind of a lane that AI, chat GPT, ah they can’t quite replicate right this second. I mean, we’ve all seen it where, uh

13:25
Any AI generated hands seems to have six or seven fingers. So it’s not quite there yet. Eventually it’s going to get there, but right now that’s still one space that doesn’t seem to be too tarnished by AI. And in our experience with that craft brand, yeah, it’s done pretty well after the helpful update. I guess I’m what I’m trying to get at right now is like, would you even bother creating written content, even with a lot of images now to promote a brand? Or would you just jump straight to video? ah

13:53
I think there’s edge cases where images do help. mean, video, video is how most people want to content. Um, so I mean, if I had to pick between one or the other, I would definitely pick video, but I do think there is a lane where you do want images. Some people, I, I’m this type myself where I do want to consume a lot of content, just visually. I don’t want to sit and click through a 10 or 12 minute video. So the best answer, the right answer is both. If I had to pick one, it would definitely be.

14:22
But videos, videos time intensive, like it’s a lot easier to put up images and video. Like that’s the big barrier. It’s not that it’s not better is that is the ROI on the amount of time that you have to put into video. it there? It is as we both know, it’s very time intensive. mean, the only reason why I’m also asking is just the way things are going. Like everyone’s just doing research on AI. People might never even see that image that you’re posting, right?

14:48
They’re just doing the research and then they go straight to your website or wherever to make a purchase, right? Yep. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, like we talked about off air, there is still a significant amount of Google traffic that goes to the top two or three listings for certain topics, which aren’t being AI generated by Google. Uh, whether that’s there or not in five or 10 years, probably not. It’s pro it might be viable right now, but five or 10 years from now, definitely that will not be the case.

15:17
So that’s definitely where the puck’s going. But right there, right now, I think the puck is still there where you can get a top-server listing on Google and do okay. Yeah, yeah. At least for like the next six months. I actually heard a rumor that Google was going to upend their entire search for a version of AI overviews. I don’t know if that’s gonna come true or not. Yeah, yeah. mean, we’ve all experienced it where it does seem to be overtaking

15:47
search results for most searches. And I’m sure there is uh a time when it will become even more intrusive and it’s basically purely AI results. uh But we’re seeing it now already. I mean, there’s a lot of searches where basically all you’re getting is AI results. All right. So you’re still all in on Amazon content and Amazon uh has like all the increased fees and advertising and all that stuff. Like what advice would you give Amazon sellers today to

16:15
stay profitable in the environment? Well, it comes down to product ultimately. uh You know, what I always tell people too is, you know, five or six years ago, kind of the rule of thumb is you basically needed a product that you could sell at 4X. So you buy it for 10 bucks and you sell it for 40. And then two or three years ago after the Amazon fee increases, it changed more to like 5X. And now with all the tariffs, plus some of Amazon’s fee increases, it’s more like 6X. So I think that’s the key.

16:43
You have a product that you can sell at 6X, you’re okay. If you’re still trying to sell a $10 widget for $40, that’s a very tough proposition, not only with Amazon fees, but plus tariffs. And most people are still importing from China and they’re not importing from China. Basically every other country now, except for the U.S. has tariffs. So tariffs are obviously a very significant additional cost for people. both of those things, Amazon fees and tariffs basically means that

17:11
the magical formula now to stay profitable and profitable is probably 10 % net margins, that magical formula is probably more like 6x. Interesting. And I know you’re in Canada, actually, for the Canadian listeners out there, like, what’s it like right now over there? Well, good news is we’re pissing you off here from the US, right? And some of the old tricks you can’t do anymore. Yeah, we haven’t become the 51st state yet. So think we’re all okay with that. I mean, that

17:40
That part’s good. uh I know Steve is kind of licking his wounds because he can’t get Canadians travel down to his conferences, but it seems like the Americans are making up for that. So yeah, we are doing the good Canadian thing and being passive aggressive and just refusing to travel or buy American whiskey. So in that regard, uh you know, I think Canadians would have said their feelings hurt from a business regard. I mean, it’s it’s affected.

18:07
certain industries actually in Canada. ah So there was a very healthy percentage of e-commerce companies who were taking advantage of de minimis and they would bring their products from China or whatever country into Canada and then ship across the border same day because 90 % of the Canadian population lives within 50 miles of the US border and they would just ship cross border every day. So effectively it was the same speed as shipping from the US but no tariffs. So now de minimis gone that

18:34
little niche of e-commerce businesses who are taking advantage of that little loophole. They have all had their businesses totally disrupted. So on the e-commerce side, yeah, it’s been a little bit disruptive depending on what business model your e-commerce company had uh from a business side, like overall economy seems to do have been doing okay right now. But yeah, obviously a lot of I think anywhere in the world has been disrupted by Trump 2.0.

19:01
I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six-day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out. It contains both video and text-based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be attained at mywifequitterjob.com slash free.

19:30
just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash free. Now back to the show. I actually have a ton of friends who, you know, when the de minimis, when Trump eliminated de minimis from China, they’re like, ah, no problem. We’ll just ship all of our stuff to Mexico and Canada on the board. And then when he passed the everything, every country rule, they were like, oh my God, I just spent like the last couple of months moving all that stuff over.

20:01
Well, I mean, I remember when I sold my business a few years ago, I thought, you know what, I’ll take some of this money. I’ll buy a warehouse here in Canada. And now with all these tariffs, I’ll just take advantage of this. I’ll be like the low cost provider because we’ll have all our products brought into Canada and ship them cross border and there’ll be no duties and we’ll be able to undercut everybody on price and never pulled the trigger on that, thankfully. But uh how do I mean, that entire business model just be. It’s very unpredictable. All right. Well, OK.

20:31
Let’s talk about the illegal activity on Amazon. That’s a very juicy topic. Okay, so you just put out a video on this and I do know that Amazon has been putting out these press releases over the years that it’s drastically cut down on illegal reviews, how it’s actively trying to like lose less merchandise in its warehouses. What’s really going on, Dave? In terms of reviews, did. So just to give a little history lesson, in 2022, they did suspend

21:00
a lot of very major sellers on Amazon. And basically they were all guilty of putting insert cards into their packages and saying, hey, buy our product, leave a five-star review and we’ll give you $20 gift card. And that was very traceable. Amazon, all they had to do was go into the warehouse, open up a box and they can find these review insert cards. So you’re caught red-handed with that. And they suspended a lot of very, very major sellers, like public companies in China. So definitely.

21:29
That was a very real action that Amazon took and that had like a very material positive effect in getting rid of a lot of these bad actors who were basically paying for reviews by leaving these insert cards. That’s fine. So they did a good job there. Now what’s happened, it’s gone from insert cards, which are very, very traceable to now people using these review brokers, basically people who will get you fake reviews for five bucks a piece. And that’s where all the actions turn to.

21:58
these fake review groups exist basically in one place, it’s Facebook. So if you go on to Facebook, you search for Amazon reviews, you can find a million Facebook review groups where you can get free products all in exchange for leaving five star reviews. And so now basically all the action has shifted from leaving insert cards to using these review brokers and Facebook groups. So Amazon did do a lot.

22:23
had like a rebate service that kind of got in trouble, Well, yeah, yeah. that’s a really good example of kind of also what exists today. So yeah, you’re talking about one of our friends who had a rebate service. And the theory behind that service was it wasn’t necessarily to get fake reviews, although we’ll talk about that in a second. The point was to kind of juice

22:51
Amazon’s algorithm and get some extra link juice and conversion juice for your product. So you give away a bunch of free products through one of these rebate services. Amazon would think, oh my gosh, everybody’s buying this product. We should rank it highly. And so that was the overt reason why that service existed. The wink, wink, nudge, nudge side of the service was, yeah, buy our product for free. Great. And by the way, please leave us a review. So that was the other thing that was happening. And that still exists today.

23:20
like these wink wink nudge nudge services where you give away discounted products and there’s kind of an implicit agreement that yeah, you’re probably gonna leave a five-star review because if you leave, you don’t leave any review, that’s probably okay, but you’re definitely not gonna leave a one-star review because you’ll get kicked off the platform. So that still exists today. Okay, but what you’re talking about here is completely different and sketchier. With the overt.

23:45
buying a fake review. So I’m not going to mention the websites. You can Google buy fake Amazon reviews. A ton of these websites exist and you can buy five review packages. You can buy 10 review packages. You can buy a hundred review packages and you pay a set price per review. Obviously you have to compensate the product costs as well. And within seven to 10 business days, you get either five, 10 or a hundred reviews.

24:10
You know, realistically, Amazon could shut these sites down by just telling Google to just filing DMCA take down requests with Google and they wouldn’t be in search at least, right? But they’re not doing that. So that’s one way to find these review groups. But any Amazon seller listening has probably at some point or the other had a little message, somehow get through Amazon’s filters and say, hey, you want reviews? Message me. We chat me. So there’s these kind of underground ways where you can find these.

24:39
services where you buy reviews as well and not to pick on China but again talk going back to like the Mecca of Chinese sellers you walk through this shopping or Half shopping mall half offices you walk through there and there’s basically billboards everywhere for different Amazon services Some of them are photography services some of them are listing off an optimization services and some of them are Review services and they don’t say fake reviews, but they call them review services. So

25:07
there are more kind of grassroot ways that people are finding these services to get fake reviews. So you’re right. They can stop it on the Google side and just like not have them show up in the service. But there’s other ways that people can find these groups. Let’s get to the interesting part. You actually tried one of these services just as just for content reasons, right? I did. How does it work? Yeah. So tried one of these services. So basically Amazon really suppressed what they saying. They shut down all these

25:36
websites, I went to one of these websites, tried to buy a fake review. Message the operator of the website said, hey, can you get me a fake review? They said, sure, no problem. By the way, though, I just want to hop on a WeChat call with you just to kind of verify your identity. And basically, the identity check was to make sure I was Chinese. ah As I talked about the video, I kind of smudged the camera on my lens a little bit, put on a hat, tried to give a broken English accent. uh And the guy more or less said, OK, sir, it looks like you’re

26:06
might be in China, so yeah, go ahead and buy your review. Now, talking to this guy, he was very clearly South Asian. Turns out he’s from Bangladesh. So that’s where most of these fake review services are working. did you find that out, by India or Maine. It was in actually the court documents that Amazon had filed taking down these review brokers. they actually had the names of the people and where they existed in the court documents. Now they weren’t able to take action against them, but they did find out their names. So yeah, it turns out most of them are in India.

26:35
in Bangladesh, probably not a surprise to a lot of people. I just remember it happened to be Steve, right? It happened to be Steve. It was definitely not Steve. You can see it in the court documents. It was definitely not Steve. So yeah, not Steve, but Steve still managed to get the fake review. So paid $5 plus the cost of the product. I did not do it on my own product. Found another product with tens of thousands of reviews because I don’t want either my products getting suspended or

27:05
somebody else’s product being suspended and truth of it is like the chances that Amazon is gonna notice one fake review on a product with tens of thousands of reviews probably Probably not likely so anyways bought this fake review I thought for sure my money’s gone because I basically Bitcoin the guy because I didn’t want any trace of this happening uh Did you really hit with crypto? Yeah, well, how else am I gonna do? I’m not gonna do it with PayPal Okay, and

27:34
And again, to their credit, right? Like he could have mistaken the money and run. Maybe there’s a bigger scheme here. He wants me to buy the 100 review package for $500. Maybe that’s the ultimate scheme, but I do legitimately think that he’s actually just providing a good service. And like, he’s not going to take the money. He’s actually going to provide the reviews of my bought a thousand review package. anyways, crypto the money over to him. And within about seven to 10 days, that review popped up right on the product page.

28:03
Now, the other thing was, this is not some rudimentary operation. So I had to create an account on their website. It had to log in. They had a tracking service where I can, number one, track the order that the person had used to order. And then also I could track the status of their view and it would say, okay, you need to wait a few days for the review to populate because we don’t want to do it too quickly. Otherwise Amazon’s going to catch it. So the whole process took about 10 days from the time I cryptoed the money to the time somebody bought the product and

28:33
ultimately left the review. like this is a real business with like a software back end and Oh dude, it’s incredible. Alright, so where is this review coming from though? Is it someone the US who bought it or that part? I mean, they’re not going to reveal their secret sauce where they get the reviewers from. So I did ask Steve I said, Hey, where are these reviews coming from? They’re all coming from Facebook and Oh, no, no, no, no, no, we have we have other sources. Truth of it is almost all of them are coming from these Facebook groups. So

29:02
they operate these Facebook groups for the buyer side. So people buying products and leaving reviews. So again, like I mentioned before, if you go onto Facebook, look for Amazon reviews, you’ll find a million of these Facebook or Amazon review groups. And so all these guys who operate these services operate a few of these Facebook groups. Most of them have thousands of members and that’s where they’re getting the reviews from. So they’ll post the product.

29:31
Steve has his linen that he wants to get a bunch of free reviews for. He’ll tell Steve, Steve will then go post that product in the Facebook group for all the customers and say, Hey, if you guys want some handkerchiefs and linens, go to this link, buy it, message us your order number, leave a review and then we’ll reimburse you for your costs. So that’s where they’re coming from. They’re almost all coming from Facebook review groups. They might say otherwise, but even in the Amazon court documents, they’ve said the same thing. They’re almost all coming from Facebook review groups.

30:01
Here’s what I found nefarious about all this. You could actually pay for one star reviews too, right? Yes. Yes. So, and that’s what I was curious about because we’ve all as Amazon sellers been hit with one star reviews. And so I asked Steve, said, Hey, you know, it’s great that you can leave five star reviews. Can you leave one star reviews? He said, Oh, yeah, sure. No problem. You want one star reviews, three star reviews, five star reviews. No problem. Anything you want, we’ll get it for you.

30:28
Okay, so I’ve had a rash of students in the class where they launch and before they’ve even shipped their stuff over to Amazon, they get a negative one star review. So it seems like this is very common. What do you do in that case? I mean, this is the sad part about it. So a lot of people, what they resort to, you get hit with negative reviews and you know it’s your competitor, what do you do? You hit them back. And so you buy, goes for this tit and tat where people will buy fake reviews against their competitors. That’s…

30:58
the natural reaction from a lot of people. ah In terms of if you don’t want to get into that slugfest, what can you do? I mean, really all you can kind of do is cross your fingers and hope that Amazon catches these fake reviewers. So Amazon did claim that last year they shut down 250 million fake reviews before they ever got posted. They shut down that many, how many are getting through? Who knows, but it’s probably a lot bigger than 250 million. So yeah, they’re catching some of these.

31:27
And hopefully they catch them if you’re getting hit with fake reviews. But other than that, they’re very hard to trace. And that’s the problem. They’re real customers leaving these reviews. They’re real customers based in the US leaving these reviews. Very hard to catch. Now if somebody hasn’t bought the product, then that’s very traceable from Amazon. Like if somebody’s- is, but it’s still really hard to get it taken down, right? I mean, yeah. In this case,

31:51
And this is I get asked these questions and I don’t really have good answers for them. That’s why I brought it up here. Like I had one student who was already spent a lot of time getting his product ready, puts up his listing instantly. I think he got four negative reviews and he hadn’t even shipped anything yet. Okay. And then he appealed to Amazon. Look, the listings didn’t even live. I don’t have anything, but he couldn’t get them taken down, which is very frustrating. Yeah. I mean, a few tactical things that people can do. um

32:19
just to kind of make it meaningful. So first off, Amazon is being a little bit more receptive to review removal requests and it’s brute force. Most of the time you just got to email, email, email, case, case, case. The conversion rate on that is very low, but they are definitely a lot more receptive nowadays than compared to previously where it was basically a blanket no, never a chance in hell that you’ll get a review removed. They are more receptive to it now. So that still is an option. There are also,

32:49
review removal services now that exist. Steve, you might’ve had some reach out to you to sponsor podcasts and emails. And they’re doing the exact same thing that these account appeal specialists are doing when you get your account suspended. They’re just doing brute force and they’re just opening case after case after case trying to get your reviews removed. So it’s something you can do yourself or you can use a review removal tool as well. And most of them you only pay per review that you get removed. So that is another option.

33:18
And then the third more realistic option, you have to make up for it. If you’re in a really competitive category where these bad actors exist, you got to be able to make up for it with a ton of five star reviews and not buying fake five star reviews. That’s not a good option because eventually you will get caught. But you have to have, you have to have that launch velocity when you launch to get a ton of reviews. So fine. There’s your 30 free reviews. And then after that, you know, you really got to pump.

33:48
PPC and just get a ton of sales because you are going to get some percentage of people that are going to leave reviews. Hopefully it’s a good re product and you’re to get a lot of five star reviews and not three star reviews and just really blast in the beginning to get that order volume where those four reviews get washed away. That’s kind of the only thing you can do. But you know, sometimes you get four one star reviews right out of the gate and you basically have to relaunch the product. That’s actually what I told him to do. He’s like, you haven’t shipped anything yet. So it’s not a big deal. You’ll have to remark your products.

34:17
Yeah, again, not a big deal. Just relaunch the listing. It ended up being good in the end, but like it’s just very frustrating and discouraging for someone who’s new to hit that. Oh, yeah, it is. And the problem is with Amazon, they can’t do anything against this against people buying either fakes one star reviews or five star reviews, because there was a time many years ago where if your product was getting a bunch of fake five star reviews, you would have your product almost immediately suspended because Amazon can eventually you get enough of these fake reviews Amazon.

34:47
knows that it’s a fake review. At least one or two of their reviews will be detectable. They’ll suspend the ASIN. And then sellers caught on, huh, okay, well, if I just leave Steve a bunch of fake five star reviews, this product’s gonna get suspended because Amazon thinks that you’re buying fake reviews for your own product. And Amazon realized that, that, now this is just a technique to get other people’s products suspended by leaving them fake five star reviews. And you do it in enough quantity, they’re gonna get suspended. So now Amazon, can’t.

35:16
really suspend people when they’re getting fake five star reviews. All they can do is things like they’re trying to do by taking down these actual review brokers, which they’re not really doing a good job of. But actually suspending people who are buying fake five star reviews, very, very, very tough for them to do anything. Well, Dave, I know you do a lot more volume on Amazon than I do. uh What is your general feel of the landscape in terms of just bad activity? Has it gotten better? Has it gotten worse? And what’s your outlook on Amazon going forward?

35:45
I mean, I think Amazon is getting better at getting rid of bad actors. I think my best advice to people still though is avoid categories where bad actors exist. So, you know, things like off-roading products and boating products, really not a lot of bad actors. If you’re selling supplements or beauty products, yeah, you’re going to have a lot of bad actors in that space. So good reason to avoid those categories unless you’re prepared to get into that fight.

36:14
If you are, mean, some people are just more apt to participate in those things. By all means, go ahead. But if that’s not a fight you want to do, avoid those categories. And those are the big two ones. Like, well, anything that’s selling millions of dollars a month for our top selling ASIN, it’s going to be a dirty, dirty fight. So avoid those categories. think the best thing you can do have a lot of products doing tens of thousands of dollars a month, not a single product doing millions of dollars. Basically stay on the radar, right? Niche products, have a collection of them.

36:44
diversify. If one gets hammered, you still have a whole bunch left over. exactly. And yeah, and if you avoid the categories where you’re going to get into those fights, you’re probably going to sleep better at night doing it. I mean, one reason why I love just having the brand in the first place is because, you know, people will actually search for your brand, right? Whereas on Amazon, like if you get taken down,

37:10
And the brand is in such small letters, someone will replace you eventually, someone will knock you off eventually. It’s harder to do that when you have a, have something recognizable or reputation out there, right? Yeah. Yeah. I would argue that reputation is probably a lot of people think their brand reputation is more than it really is. think actually having a brand that people are Googling on any volume is pretty rare. And there are obviously brands that do it.

37:38
For the most part, think we’re kind of in a world where brands are becoming less and less important. And we’re kind of just getting into just your plain Jane private label products. And we all have Amazon to thank for that. Interesting. I feel like it’s going the other way now. Now that Tmoo has gotten drastically hurt also, right? Tmoo was like, Yeah, in the US. Correct. In the US. Yes. I’m very US centric because I live here. Probably not in Canada, right? I mean, Tmoo is…

38:08
still probably going strong in Canada, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. And they’re going all, mean, they are definitely going very hard in Europe, uh Canada, Australia, trying to make up for that lost US volume. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. So going forward, um are you going to try any live selling with your brands or? No, I don’t think live selling is here just yet. Okay. Social selling, I do think, and that can be oh

38:37
personally selling it yourself or working more aggressively with influencers. Definitely that is going to be a project for 2026 and going onwards. And it’s something we have actually been pretty good about in the past, uh specifically working with YouTubers. So especially in the off-roading space, there are, there’s a very healthy community of off-road content creators there. So we’ve been pretty good with working with them in the past and just going to continue down that path and

39:07
breaking out to other platforms too, like especially TikTok and working with influencers there. Because again, it’s very niche specific. When it comes to off-roading, there are a lot of content creators, both on TikTok and YouTube. So it makes it pretty easy to work with them. With something like a boating brand, there’s actually not a lot of content creators there. So it makes it a little bit secure. I’m surprised. Rich old guys, right? That’s the problem. Yeah, I guess. You need young poor guys or girls.

39:36
So you’re deciding to go the influencer route rather than creating your own content for the most part, it sounds like. Yeah, mean, create content for eComprove. That’s actually what I’m kind of passionate about is creating content for eCommerce. um You can only do so many things. I think if I was going to be the sole content creator for a brand, it would have to be something I’m uber, uber, uber passionate about because you can only fake it so much when comes to a brand.

40:04
Do I enjoy camping in the outdoors? Yes. Am I driving around in a lifted four by four? No. you need to be the rule. Of course. In the off-roading, I mean, you can’t take your Prius off-roading, right? Well, you can get a Prius lifted, but yeah, it wouldn’t be your typical day-to-day driver. Well, what is the future of e-comm crew, actually? What’s the goal there? Well, first off, uh blogging has been very, very hit, especially in that space.

40:34
by Google helpful. Again, speaking about social, I think definitely where people are consuming their information when it comes to e-commerce, or really anything technology is more YouTube than anything else. So yeah, that’s the big goal is to get some traction on YouTube. I enjoy making the content there. um Haven’t quite succeeded in figuring out how to get it to stick there yet, but I think that’s the transition is.

41:01
continue to go hard on YouTube, continue the podcast like we are. I think our email list and our emails that we put out weekly are really good as well. those are kind of the three big ones. And then, you know, less emphasis on the blog. But like we were talking about offline, it’s still a major component to the brand, but definitely not as important as it was pre-helpful. You know, I gotta say, though, I think

41:28
You’re one of the few people that are still putting out blog posts on Amazon and they’re all really good. Um, and obviously I would trust your newsletter over something that AI hallucinates online. So, yeah, well, yeah. And AI has helped with repurposing content a lot. So it definitely makes it easy or easier to take something like a blog post and help regenerate that into content for your email list and into a script for YouTube.

41:58
So AI has definitely helped in that part and just making jobs easier in terms of creating the content Yeah, never in a million years. Could you trust it? They give you any real ecommerce advice But it definitely helps with some of just the day-to-day tasks with repurposing content because that’s a big part about content is repurposing Yeah So Dave, where can people find you online? Where can people sign up for your newsletter? Where can people find it? Check out your YouTube channel. I’ll link all this stuff, of course, but say verbally

42:27
Sure, ecomcrew.com and anyone listening should go to youtube.com slash ecomcrew. Subscribe, that would be great. But yeah, those are the two big ones, ecomcrew.com and youtube.com slash ecomcrew. And I will say this here first. I think the channel is gonna break out this year. If you keep putting out hits like the last video, I think it’s gonna be really good. Okay, am I nipping at your heels there?

42:56
400,000 subscribers, we? Are we doing You know what’s funny about YouTube? I don’t feel like there’s any competition in the space, you know what saying? No, It’s like, rising tide lifts all boats. It’s not like we’re going head to head on anything. I’m always happy to help promote you with any of the content that you put out. Yeah, I mean, that is the beautiful thing about YouTube. You’re absolutely right, where you can have multiple topics or multiple creators on a topic, and they don’t cannibalize each other’s content.

43:25
Take away anything from the other guy people some people like ketchup some people like mustard some people like mayonnaise And so you can have something for everybody’s taste buds. So go check out the ecom crew channel Thank You Steve for the recommendation Hope you enjoyed this episode Amazon is still getting the squeeze from all sides So make sure you check my youtube channel to learn how to fight back for more information and resources go over to my wife clitter job comm slash episode 621

43:54
And once again, tickets to Seller Summit 2026 are now on sale over at sellersummit.com. If you want to hang out in person in a small intimate setting, develop real relationships with like-minded entrepreneurs and learn a ton, then come to my event. Go to sellersummit.com.

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