400: Special Episode! Steve And Jen Chou Get Interviewed By Toni Herrbach

00:00
You’re listening to the My Wife Could Her Job podcast, the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and dig deep into what strategies they use to grow their businesses. Now today is a very special episode because this is the 400th episode on the podcast. And can you believe that I’ve been publishing this podcast religiously once per week for eight years? And during this period, I’ve met and chatted with hundreds of successful entrepreneurs at length. I’ve been invited to speak at many conferences and the podcast has opened many doors for me over the years.

00:29
If your goal is to have in-depth conversations with as many people as possible, I actually encourage you guys to start your own podcast. Anyway, in this episode, I invited my partner Tony to interview both myself and my wife. Now, when I came up with this idea originally, I thought it was brilliant, but having two people on the pod who know me the most ended up being somewhat of a roast fest, but enjoy the episode. But before I begin, I want to thank Klaviyo for sponsoring this episode.

00:56
Always excited to talk about Klaviyo because they’re the email marketing platform that I personally use for my e-commerce store and it depends on them for over 30 % of my revenue. Now you’re probably wondering why Klaviyo and not another provider. Well Klaviyo is the only email platform out there that is specifically built for e-commerce stores and here’s why it’s so powerful. Klaviyo can track every single customer who’s shopped in your store and exactly what they bought. So let’s say I want to send out an email to everyone who purchased a red handkerchief in the last week. Easy. Let’s say I want to set up a special autoresponder sequence to my customers depending on what they bought, piece of cake,

01:25
and there’s full revenue tracking on every email sent. Klaviyo is the most powerful email platform that I’ve ever used, and you can try them for free over at klaviyo.com slash my wife. That’s K-L-A-V-I-Y-O dot com slash my wife. I also want to thank Postscript for sponsoring this episode. Now, if you run an e-commerce business of any kind, you know how important it is to own your customer contact list. And this is why I focus a significant amount of my efforts on SMS marketing. SMS, or text message marketing, is already a top five revenue source from my e-commerce store.

01:55
and I couldn’t have done it without Postscript, which is my text message provider. Now why did I choose Postscript? It’s because they specialize in e-commerce, and e-commerce is their only focus. Not only is it easy to use, but you can quickly segment your audience based on your exact sales data and implement automated flows like an abandoned cart at the push of a button. Not only that, but it’s price-wall too, and SMS is the perfect way to engage with your customers. So head on over to postscript.io slash Steve and try it for free.

02:22
That’s P-O-S-T-S-U-I-P-T dot I-O slash Steve. And then finally, I wanted to mention my other podcast that I released with my partner, Tony. And unlike this one, where I interviewed successful entrepreneurs in e-commerce, the Profitable Audience podcast covers all things related to content creation and building an audience. No topic is off the table and we tell it like how it is in a raw and entertaining way. So be sure to check out the Profitable Audience podcast on your favorite podcast app. Now onto the show.

02:54
Welcome to episode 400 of the My Wife, Her Job podcast. And as you know, every time we hit the century mark on one of these episodes, we do a special episode. And so today I have my wife with me and what’s going to happen is my business partner, Tony, is going to interview my wife and I. And originally this felt like a really good idea, but now that I think about it, I have these two females that know me really well and they can compare notes all on the same interview.

03:23
It sounds dangerous, but I hope you guys enjoy. This might be your most downloaded episode. We’re going to get to all the secrets of Steve. Yes, it’s very fascinating, I’m sure. Well, first of all, I just want to say congratulations on 400 episodes. That’s amazing. Most people do not stick with things for that long, but I know you pretty well and know that you are a sticker outter. congratulations. Sticker with her. Sticker with her. Sticker outter. That didn’t make sense. Sticker with her.

03:53
Congratulations and congratulations Jen for putting up with 400 episodes of recording. You’ve been on a bunch though, right? I think I’ve only been on one. Have I been on more than one? You’ve been on two. Oh, I have been on two. Obviously I listened very carefully to all his podcasts. Of which I’ve edited those meticulously because you demanded them. So I’m probably going to be editing this one by hand also. This is special then we get Jen on today.

04:23
My first question is, why did you decide to do a podcast, Steve? Well, that’s an easy one. Are you going to be throwing me softballs this whole time? No, we’re starting easy. We’re going to get to the tough stuff. I’m going to give you some warm up. I started the podcast just to meet people. OK. I usually don’t get out very much. And everyone wants to be a guest on the podcast. So if I want to reach someone and get to know someone better, all I got to do is reach out and say, hey, you want to come on the podcast. And it’s worked. I get to meet one new person.

04:53
a week and I get to chat with them for usually at least 90 minutes. And Jen, what did you think once did he? Okay, this is a question. Did he ask permission if he could start the podcast and add something more to his plate? Because when you started the podcast, you were still working your full time job plus Bumblebee plus my wife quit. So did you have to get podcast approval from Jen or was this a, you marched into the room like you normally do and just said, I’m doing something new Jen.

05:18
Here’s a key takeaway of this episode. You always ask for forgiveness, not permission. Well, you never asked for permission to do stuff. Right. That’s what I’m saying. That’s the lesson of the episode. I don’t think, honestly, to me, the podcast made sense, actually, because it’s one of the things that he likes doing. Plus, it means less talking for me having to talk to him. So him talking to someone else is always a good thing. All right. And who was your very first podcast guest? Do you remember?

05:48
It was me. I did a solo episode. I know your first guest. Oh, first guest. OK. I think it was Andrew Udarian. OK. And so for people that are thinking about starting a podcast, obviously, Andrew was a friend of yours. So is that how you got started by just inviting people that you knew on the podcast because you knew they would probably say yes? When did you get to the point where you could like cold call people and invite them on the podcast? OK, so first off, I don’t cold call people.

06:15
Well, yes, I know. I usually have met them at an event, even just very briefly so they know who I am. Because on the flip side, I want to get guests that are eloquent and can hold a good conversation as well. That’s how I screen people. I would say before I started asking randos, I probably did it for a year. It took you a little bit of time before you could ask people that weren’t your friends. I think I ran out of friends after a year.

06:44
probably way before a year. Possibly before a year, so I had to make new friends. Started asking people that might be a friend. Do you really listen to every podcast, You know, I did religiously for the first 200. I don’t think I’ve listened to many exhibits. I do listen to, when I know the person, I do listen to them. So it really depends. And I really enjoy the student ones. So I listen to those also.

07:10
Okay, that’s what I was going to ask you next, Jen. Have you had a favorite guest or episode of the 250 that you’ve listened to, we’ll say? My favorite guest? I don’t know who my favorite guest is. I actually enjoyed listening to Steve’s mom, but that’s because when she’s here, she doesn’t really talk about her work and what she does for a living. So was really interesting for me and it was really great for the kids to really learn that about her.

07:37
Because to me, she just seems frazzled all the time when she’s here. To me, for her talking about her life’s work, it was pretty cool. Yes, she was in her element in the podcast for sure. Yes, well, she was trying to dumb it down. It was so funny because she was like, I totally dumbed it down for you, Steve. We’re like, really? I had no idea what she was talking about some of the time. Do you have a favorite episode, Steve? My favorite episode?

08:06
If I were to pick one, I probably would say my interview with Cialdini just because that was my favorite book of all time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that has to be, if not your favorite, in your top five for sure. And of course, the one where I had with my wife. Absolutely. I mean, we weren’t even going to consider that because that’s the obvious number one. OK, so have you ever had a guest on, Steve, that bombed? And what do you do about it when that happens?

08:35
Yes, I did have a guest. not actually know the answer to this one. Yeah, I know the answer to this. What I ended up doing is I ended up still publishing it because it was a bigger name person, but I ended up cutting out maybe 30 % of the interview. Okay. So that that’s what I did. Like, so if there’s an interview that’s not going well, I actually there was one person where I just said, Hey, this isn’t going to work.

09:02
and I actually never published it, but we didn’t finish filming either. I said up front within like 15 minutes, I was like, hey, this isn’t gonna work. And that was it. What was their response? There was like, hey, I tell you what, let me go back and know, prep and then we’ll get back on again. Okay. And then that just, didn’t happen. Okay. I actually remember that one too. I do too. you do? Okay. At least if it’s who I think it is.

09:28
I don’t actually remember his name. was one of the few randos that I’ve had. Oh, I was thinking it was the female. Yes, I was thinking it was a female too. I think Jen and I have the same memory. Yeah. Well, let’s not out anyone. We’ll talk to you offline. Yeah. So one of the things that I… So it’s funny, when you and I go places, Steve and Jen, you might not know this and I probably haven’t told you because you don’t… Steve doesn’t need a bigger head than he already has, but many times we will get stopped.

09:56
when we’re walking like to lunch or something like that. And people will say, oh, I’m a huge fan of your podcast. And they recognize Steve from the podcast. So you get recognized a ton from when we’re out and about. When did that actually when did you get to that point where you felt like the podcast was really taken on a life of its own? Because you have your site and you have we have seller’s summit. We have other properties. But the podcast seems to be just its own entity at this point.

10:24
I still don’t feel like that happens that often, like you say. Maybe at an e-commerce conference, maybe. But in other events, it’s not a huge podcast or anything compared to Dave Ramsey or something like that. I would say people started probably after two years, maybe, was when it started happening. Podcasts aren’t something that grow really quickly. Right. Yeah. So it takes time.

10:51
And one of the things that I always hear when people stop you, which does happen frequently, you’re being modest, is that they love your interview style. They say that you ask the questions that they wanna know. And my brother, who’s an avid listener of your podcast, has always said that since he started listening, that when you’re doing an interview with somebody, you’re asking the questions that as he’s sitting there, he’s wondering himself.

11:15
How did you get to that point? Like you’re pretty good at it. So is that something you worked on? Is that something that came naturally for you? Okay. Well, my wife can comment here, but I’m just a very nosy person. That’s what I was just going to say. You’re extremely nosy. And I don’t have any qualms about asking a direct question. Right. Right. What’d you say? We’ll be out to the point of I’m embarrassed. Right. of the time. So a lot of the times I’m like, Oh, should you have said that? I don’t know if that’s like, we’ll be at dinner and I’ll say, wait,

11:45
So why did you break up with that person? What didn’t you like about them? Why didn’t it work out? And it’d be someone that I just met. OK. So Jen, based on that, has there ever been anything that you’ve heard in a podcast that you’ve been embarrassed that he said? Beyond normal embarrassment? Beyond the standard level. No. I think of the podcasts I listen to, I think everyone that is signed up to be on a podcast, they’re very open.

12:15
Like feel like the guests that Steve has had have always been very good about being very, very open. I think it’s more embarrassing in a normal day-to-day situation where he’s asking very embarrassing questions that I’m like, ooh, maybe he shouldn’t have asked that. That’s very, very direct. So in my defense, I think the way to become friends with someone is to just go ahead and jump right to the direct personal questions. I actually don’t like small talk.

12:43
I think small talk is necessary in the beginning, but as soon as I feel like I have any sort of connection, even a little one, I’m going to start jumping straight into more personal questions. Has anybody that’s been a podcast guest been offended by something that you’ve said? Okay, so number one, I’m not offensive. No, don’t mean that. Offended is not the right word.

13:09
Have you ever asked a question that maybe went too far with somebody on the podcast? No, because I like to think that I can tell if someone’s getting uncomfortable. So if they are, then I’ll usually back off a little bit and try to rephrase the question in a different way. But I think they also are very good about telling you what you don’t, like they don’t feel comfortable talking about. Oh, yeah. I ask up front, is there anything that you don’t want me to ask you about before the interview even starts? And I’m respectful. I don’t go there.

13:38
You’ve never asked me that not one time. Oh, when you’re on. OK. Is this a way of patting yourself on the back since you’ve been on seven times or however? No, I was saying I was like, I haven’t been extended that courtesy. OK, I actually didn’t know that you did that. That’s a really smart, smart thing to do, because then you don’t wade into those waters and potentially offend somebody. I can just see someone like throwing their headphones off, walking away from the microphone, you know, in drum in dramatic fashion.

14:08
And the other thing I always say is that these podcasts are going to be edited after the fact. So if you say something stupid, then we can cut it out. in general, or actually, I always use the same joke. It’s probably kind of old. I always say, hey, the podcast editor, don’t worry. They’re going to make me sound good. And you’ll sound OK. Because sometimes people do ask, can you remove the ums? OK. Right? And sometimes people have a lot of ums.

14:35
Yes. And so I say, don’t worry, they always remove my arms and they’ll they’ll they’ll make a best effort to remove your arms is what I say. and how much editing does go into the podcast at this point? I’m assuming that because you’ve done it so much only because I’ve edited our podcast and you don’t have a lot of arms at this point. So I’m assuming what is your editor? Because I know you have someone that helps you. I don’t listen to any episode that I put out anymore. OK, well, I take that back. I do list.

15:03
We’ve gotten to this point now where I trust the editors’ editing. So I actually don’t listen to everything completely anymore. I try not to say ums anymore. So it’s possible that she doesn’t have to do much editing with me. But does she still edit the other people? She does. Yes, I have her do that. I mean, it’s in my podcast’s best interest that the guests sound as good as they can.

15:29
Now, Jen, has Steve ever revealed anything about you guys on the podcast that you haven’t been thrilled about? Oh, I’m sure there has been. There’s my I think in general, I feel very uncomfortable like getting too detailed in our personal life. So it’s hard for me when he does reveal some stuff. And sometimes he does things in a jokingly manner. They’re like, hmm, maybe he shouldn’t have said that. But.

15:56
That’s why I sometimes don’t listen anymore because otherwise he’s going to reveal a lot more than I probably feel comfortable with. To a certain extent, I actually prefer that you don’t listen to everything sometimes because there’s a lot of things that I say that you wouldn’t, you would definitely not say yourself, but I’ll say it. Right. What do you say? Probably. Yeah. Well, Jen’s just a lot nicer than you in general, Steve. So it’s not about being nice. It’s about getting answers.

16:27
Now, do you think the format of you interviewing people has helped you make it to episode 400? Because I feel like if it was just you talking every single week, that would probably be tough. You might run out of things. I don’t know. You might not run out of things to say. But do you think having the interview style has helped you, you know, reach this milestone? I mean, first of all, I can’t just I can’t. So those solo episodes are really hard for me to do. I know you could just talk like all day.

16:55
In a solo episode. No one would listen, but I could yes So what was the question? Did it help the fact I do interview style? Yes, because I can actually go into a podcast interview with zero prep and have it come out okay because based on what someone says there’s always interesting questions to ask and things to find out and Sometimes it’s just like this small little detail. That’s really interesting To me and then we could just talk like an entire episode on just one little detail that that a guess is revealed

17:24
Have you ever wanted to quit doing it? Quit the podcast? Yes. I would say of all the things that I’ve considered quitting with the businesses, the podcast is not one of them because I need more friends. I think you really enjoy talking to I do. I do enjoy talking to I think that’s one of the benefits of Seller Summit, for example, and for your podcast. It’s a way for you to meet people. That’s correct. Actually, I’m thinking about this now.

17:54
Most of the friends that I talk to on a regular basis are people who I’ve either met at a conference or through the podcast today. I we see our local friends every now and then, but I talk to my internet friends more. Yeah. So speaking of that, you talk about how the podcast was a way to meet people during the pandemic when, especially for you where you’re located, the rules were much stricter. So you weren’t really out and about a whole lot.

18:20
the networking opportunities were basically zero. How did you meet people to have them on the podcast over the past 18 months to two years? During COVID, you’ll notice that you came on a little bit more often. I was getting desperate. was on every fourth week. I actually just, have this long list of people that I have yet to ask. All I did was just tap into that list. I did bring a couple of people back also that had

18:50
interesting things happen to their business. There’s nothing wrong with bringing a guest back seven times, for example. Well, you got to bring the favorites back. How can you tell if someone is a popular guest? Is it through feedback? Do you get emails? How do you gauge how popular a podcast is? All right. Here’s something that people don’t know. I actually don’t care. I don’t run the podcast.

19:19
to be popular, I really run it just to meet people. And if there’s someone that I want to talk to, I don’t even care how well it’s going to do because that’s just not the purpose. I know it’s going to be interesting no matter what, even if it’s just tangentially related to business even. And Jen, has there ever been anyone that you wanted to meet that Steve got on the podcast? No, actually, I don’t think there’s anyone that I’ve been wanting to meet that got on the There’s been a lot of people that I

19:49
I admire that I’ve definitely heard of that were on the podcast. I’m like, wow, that’s pretty cool that you got to talk to them. But it wasn’t something that I necessarily wanted to meet them in person. OK, maybe you should give them a list. Oh, OK. I’ll give you a list. Your people would be all like the people you watch on YouTube probably, right? Probably, yeah. Nothing wrong with that. So are you saying that you don’t pay any attention to feedback that you get from the podcast?

20:19
Okay, so for example, I just did student month, right? Where I had students in my class actually come on the podcast and tell their story. And that was just kind of like an experiment to me. I got a lot of positive feedback, but I actually got a couple of negative comments too. They were like saying, oh, this is just you pushing your class. Why don’t you just get other people? I prefer hearing like the more successful people or whatnot. And these students are successful, right? I mean, they’re making six.

20:48
Several students make seven figures. I don’t know what this person’s definition of success is, but to me, those stories are more interesting, right? Because these are people. Yeah, they seem more interesting because they seem doable. Right. Like regular people doing really well. But I think just the angle of the fact that they were members of my class left a bad taste in certain people’s mouths, I think is what happened. Yeah, they can they can go listen to another podcast then. Yeah. So, you know, I’m going to mix it up.

21:16
While I do another student month, probably at some point, maybe not a student month, but like I’ll weave in, you know, students in there. I think that’s serious. didn’t check the stats, but I think it did OK. I think those last four episodes did good. And do any of your real life friends listen to your podcast? Because I don’t know if you remember this, but I went on a date with a guy. Actually, I’ve gone on dates with two different people who were fans of your podcast. And it was actually pretty awkward because

21:46
How you you and I know each other so well and they were super fans of your podcast so that was that was weird Those people probably did not get second dates. I was also gonna say you need a date better people I had to change my bio Does not listen to podcasts are you saying that are you being for real?

22:11
No, I mean, for real, two people that I went out with. And it came up because I think I had mentioned like Seller Summit or something. And then it was, you know, Steve Chu. And I was like, oh, no, we’re not going to do this. That’s hilarious. Yeah. Well, your podcast is very popular. And so I’m curious, though, like, does your mom listen to your podcast? Do your friends that you hang out with in real life? Does anybody? I don’t think they do. I don’t think they listen to it religiously. think.

22:40
They may listen to certain episodes that are interesting to them. I know that our friends did listen to your mom’s podcast. Yes, they all listen to my mom’s podcast for sure. Yes, they did. But for the most part, they’re not interested in business. mean, they’re, you know, doctors, lawyers, engineers. Standard. Have you ever interviewed a friend like not a friend that you met online, but a friend that you grew up with? did a couple of them. Oh, yeah, did. Yeah. Polly and Ed, they live kind of right down the street. started. Joe and Viv.

23:09
a seven figure e-commerce. Actually, no, he had a nine figure exit. Viv, yeah, a very close friend of mine started a stroller company and sold it. They were on. Awesome. The entrepreneurs in our area tend to be not small time. They get venture funding and then they, those are less interesting actually for guests on the podcast because they’re not as relatable. Yeah. And for your audience, that’s not really what they’re looking for. Because I think your, isn’t your tagline the bootstrap?

23:37
It is. Yes. And not everyone was completely bootstrapped as guests, but for the most part, they started. They maybe eventually got funding like much later on down the line. So for someone who’s thinking about starting a podcast and is in awe that you’ve hit episode 400, what is your technique for meeting someone to get them on the podcast if you don’t know them at all? Like you probably have they’re probably like six degrees of Kevin Bacon sort of thing, but you personally don’t know them. What’s your strategy?

24:05
Oh, okay. So the one that I like to employ, assuming I’ve never met them, right? Right. Yeah. Okay. So what I do is I try to find who their friends are on Facebook and see if I know anyone. And what I do is I try to, and chances are I’ll know at least one or two, the more the better. And then I’ll ask all those mutual friends to send them an email or her an email at the exact same time pitching my podcast. And so the idea here is that

24:35
If this person is getting pitches from multiple people, they’re like, wow, I definitely got to meet this guy then. That’s worked on several occasions.

24:44
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25:13
Now, first and foremost, protecting our IP starts with a solid trademark and Emerge Council provides attorney-advised strategic trademark prosecution, both in the United States and abroad for a very low price. And furthermore, the students in my course have used Steve for copyrighting their designs, policing against counterfeits and knockoffs, agreements with co-founders and employees, website and social media policies, privacy policies, vendor agreements, brand registry, you name it. So if you need IP protection services, go to EmergeCouncil.com and get a free consult.

25:42
And if you tell Steve that I sent you, you’ll get a hundred dollar discount. That’s E.M.E.R. G.E.C.O.U.N. S.E.L. Dot com. Now back to the show. Can you say who the hardest person to get on the podcast was? Just as far as like you didn’t know them at all, you had to really work at it. I haven’t had to work at it because usually I meet them first just to make sure that they’re a decent interview. I think I after those couple of negative times that I had someone on the guest who wasn’t really good on

26:12
on the mic, I kind of just pre-screen now by just meeting them first for the most part. What’s your least favorite part of doing all of this? The least favorite part of the podcast was the editing part. And thankfully, I have MJ now doing that part. I mean, I you love editing the podcast. Oh, absolutely. It’s my favorite part of the week. Yeah. Mainly because I get to edit on a 2009 Dell laptop computer.

26:40
When did you get to the point where you could, did you wait until you were making money from the podcast to hire the editor? Was it something that you just felt like was worth the spend, even though the podcast wasn’t making money? How did you get to that tipping point? Was it just you hated it so much? Okay, so, geez, I don’t even remember. I know I edited my podcast for at least a year. Myself. And then I’m pretty sure it was not making money when I got an editor. I actually just found a friend who was local to edit it for me.

27:10
I can’t even remember how much I paid her now. But it was easier for me to make that decision also because the blog was making money, right? Right. So it was just kind of subsidizing the podcast. How long until you started accepting sponsors on the podcast? I want to say two years maybe. And it was just kind of by accident. I didn’t solicit any sponsors. They came to me and one of them just happened to be a tool that I use.

27:38
And so was like, sure, I’m already using your tool. I’m happy to mention it on the podcast. So it was easy that way. And back when you, I mean, I know now you’re home during the day, so you’re able to record whenever your schedule is much more flexible. But when you were working, when were you recording? And Jen, that affect, did you have to take the kids out? Because your kids were much younger when you got started. Did you have to like take the kids to the park or how did that work when the kids were younger and Steve was gone from nine to five? Gosh, I don’t remember. I think

28:08
I want to say you did it at night. No, I didn’t actually. I didn’t do it at night because the guests were like, you know, you have to come at their schedules. So I would just drive home in the middle of the day, do the interview and then drive back to work. At one time, actually this happened more than one occasion, I did the interview at work in my office. I believe that. Because I had an office and I could just close the door and then I would be animated,

28:36
through the windows so people thought maybe I’d be on a conference call or something. I can believe that you did that but I can’t believe you did that. Yeah. I mean, it might have looked odd because I brought my mic. But your old job was super flexible. it was flexible. They were super like okay with you doing stuff. Well, super okay is not, but as long you get your stuff done, it’s all good. Right. Yeah. Right. I can’t believe you recorded at work.

29:05
Do remember who that was? Do you remember who you recorded with? No, I don’t remember. I mean, it happened on more than one occasion. I even considered getting a backup mic so I didn’t have to go home and grab the mic, or you know. Of course you did. what has been, okay, so I know Robert Cialdini was your favorite interview. What have been some of the highlights outside of that over the past 400 episodes?

29:30
And has there ever been a moment where this just been like you’ve learned something so amazing or like revolutionized your own business and other things that you were doing from one of your interviewer interviewees Are you asking me this question to pat yourself on the back? No, I was you want me to say oh, yeah, whenever I when I met Tony in episode 30 it fundamentally changed my life 86 not bragging. No, um, no, I know I’m being serious

29:56
Because I know for you, I don’t know people know this on the podcast, but for you, you have your recording time, which is 40 minutes or so. But you usually spend an hour and a half talking to these people. And sometimes the best information you get is not during the recording. That is correct. Actually, I would say a lot of the juicy stuff occurs outside the recording because the guest doesn’t want to reveal some of these things for the public record. Yeah.

30:26
Are you asking me what some of these things are or what are you getting I’m asking you, were there any people in particular or little tidbits that you could share that you learned over the years that have really made a huge impact on your business or you personally? Yeah. Okay. So tidbits from my guests. I always learn something from the guests, from my guests. Let me give you an example, because this is a mutual friend of ours, Kyle from Penny Hoarder. I learned in that episode,

30:54
that I need to stagger my sends, send an email to my most engaged audience first, which trains the ISPs to expect a high open rate and then send to your less engaged audience. That actually improves the open rate by a certain amount of percentage points that actually makes a difference. That’s like an example of a nugget that I got from the interview. I’ve gotten so many nuggets over the years on advertising, SEO, I mean,

31:24
The person I’m working with right now, a quick shout out to Jeff Oxford, was someone who I brought on the pod. And usually I’m very skeptical of SEO people because most of them are scam artists, right? But through the interview, I was like, wow, and I learned a ton. And then now I’m working with them. I mean, just good things happen when you talk to people. I like Jeff. He’s one of my… I convinced someone else to hire him because of you, actually, and because of your conversations with him. So I think that does matter. But what…

31:52
I would say, did anyone just make you laugh so hard that you couldn’t, you had to stop the podcast? Are you patting yourself on the back again? No, I’m not even thinking about me. We laugh enough outside of the recording. I’m just thinking like, have you ever had to stop? I’m just looking for moments that maybe the people that listen don’t know about because they get edited out or someone that was just really, really funny that it was hard to keep going. definitely don’t think that’s me. I’m going to rip on you, Darian, here real quick.

32:22
Okay, so on the surface if anyone’s listening to this who listens to ecommerce fuel you Darien is like the nice and he’s a nice guy He’s like the nicest most polite guy super polite, right? Yes, absolutely, but you get him one-on-one And he’s a prankster. He’s a total prick. Yes, and he says some stupid stuff and so I think one time we were recording and he just made some statement that was outside of his character and He came back and said can you cut that part out?

32:51
And I was like, really? You want me to that part? But that’s part of your personality. Like that was funny. But I cut it out. It was really minor. I’m not going to reveal it here, but it was really minor. Yeah. And how does that work if someone does request for you to cut something out? And I was thinking, so one of one of our friends, Pat Flynn, has a podcast and he had Gary Vee on it several years ago. And, you know, Pat’s podcast, I think, is like a PG and Gary Vee is a rated R.

33:19
And I think Pat even mentioned before the podcast, like there might be some additional language. Like, how do you deal with those sorts of things? Because I remember listening to that podcast thinking Pat must have done a whole lot of editing to this podcast to make to make Gary V sound cleaner. So one of my buddies, Noah, he’s got like a Gary V kind of style. Yes, he does. And I told him up front, hey, if you can just keep the bombs to a minimum and like the vulgar references.

33:47
to a minimum, that’d be great, but it’s hard. And so he let some slip out. And so I had the editor just kind of have a beep whenever it happened. him. It beeped him, basically. Well, here’s the other thing. With the podcast, if you have profanity, you actually have to tell Apple. And if you don’t mark it as explicit, then you could get in trouble for it. And you can go back and forth. So if you have one episode with Noah, you can mark it explicit, but then you can go back You can do that, but I like…

34:16
to maintain a PG rating like Pat, yeah. So I actually had him beep it. And have you ever had someone ask you to cut something out that you didn’t cut out? No. You always do it? Yeah, I always cut it out. Yeah. You’re so nice. In fact, I had a student recently during student month ask me to cut out something that she said, which I thought was very minor also. But, you know, she’s still in the class and it was actually a really hard piece to cut out because it was in the flow of the conversation.

34:47
So I ended up cutting out like a much bigger section than the actual part that she wanted cut out I’m not in the business of pissing people off. Is that where you’re getting that Tony here? No, I just wonder how you handle those things because I think sometimes People are usually their own worst critic and so there’s probably something that they might want taken out that really isn’t that huge of a deal or It makes sense in the context of what they’re talking about. So like with the student It was actually difficult and you had to take out even more

35:14
And so that might take away from the whole podcast. So I was wondering how you handled it. Yeah, it didn’t really take away from the whole podcast. You know, it wasn’t anything crucial. There’s been times that you wanted me to cut like cut stuff out. And did I do it? Probably. Probably. Yeah, because I have to live with this. Because the couch isn’t super comfortable.

35:36
So 400 episodes, Jen, are you guys doing anything to celebrate? is this a big, how big of a milestone is this for you personally? Like how do you feel personally and what do you think, Jen? Well, we were originally talking about maybe having the kids be on the podcast, but the kids were like not into it. So we’re not gonna force them to do it. But I think it’s a big milestone. I feel like every hundred episodes we’re like, okay, what’s the big thing that we should talk about?

36:03
I’ll be honest with you, Tony. For me, it’s actually not a huge milestone. It’s just fun to do something special whenever you hit another 100 episodes. The podcast is something that I’m probably going to do in the long term. It’s been eight years. It’s probably going be another eight years. It’s a great way to meet people. It’s a great way to learn from other people. I don’t plan on stopping anytime soon. It’s a milestone, sure, but it’s not that big a deal. When you got started, did you ever see yourself

36:32
sitting where you are today with a, you know, top podcast interviewing a lot of people that are kind of your heroes or least people that you look up to. Did you ever see that for yourself back on episode 10 when you were still interviewing Andrew? I love this. I want to make sure he listens to this episode. I never thought about any of those things. Like I said, the podcast is just meant to meet people. Here’s what I realized.

37:01
a long time ago. played a part in this for sure because when I started going to events and seeing you in action the way you network, I mean if you guys have never seen Tony in action, she has this like sly way of slipping into your DMs. I’ve just come to realize that you you can learn all the strategies and whatnot but I think the biggest factor in the success of your business is the network and the people you have access to.

37:31
And I don’t think a lot of people realize that. And do you think that’s been the biggest benefit for you as a personally? The podcast, you mean? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it actually keeps me sane, right? I am probably an inherently a social person. I wouldn’t call myself an extrovert, but I do like meeting people and getting to know people. And it’s funny, like now I feel like if I go traveling anywhere in the world, I can just send out an email and say, hey, anyone want to hang out here? And that’s pretty awesome. Yeah.

38:01
Did you see this, Jen, back eight years ago? See, the popularity of the podcasts were just… Yeah, just the popularity, the number of people Steve’s interviewed. Did you ever think you would have to come on it? Well, I had a feeling that I would have to come on it just because he didn’t have enough friends. to share a little bit more information. Inherently, I’m a private person, so for me, it’s a little uncomfortable. But for Steve, I know it’s super important.

38:29
I can say that the most, the biggest changes in our business have always come from information that he’s learned from other people, either through the podcast or through a conference or someone he met, like just socially. A lot of the hugest, the largest changes came from those conversations. I mean, I just learned something from the last event that we went to regarding Google shopping. I don’t want to get too nerded out on e-comm here, but

38:56
This one thing is kind of like this little loophole that I didn’t know about and I’m going to implement it with my business now. Like little things like that you just pick up from people that you talk to that are not documented anywhere. Right. Now just like a little tiny bit of ecom nerdiness. So do you think the podcast has helped Bumblebee Linens at all or is this definitely been all on the My Wife Quit Her Job side? Oh no no no it’s definitely helped the ecom business. I mean not directly. I don’t think the listeners are buying hankies. Is that what you’re asking? Yes. No hanky sales.

39:26
But yeah, the tactics that I learned definitely can be applied to Bumblebee. I’ll give you like my sponsors. Let’s just take Postscript. Like they really helped me implement SMS with Bumblebee. Now could I have done it without them? Sure. But it made it a lot easier just having like, I just actually had the CEO on the podcast. I didn’t even know that he was my support person. He was helping me implement SMS on my site. I didn’t know idea who he was because I didn’t know who the CEO was.

39:55
Postscript was. So he’s helping me and I’m like, wow, this guy, he actually coded up. He’s like a technical co-founder. He actually coded up everything. And I was asking him these technical questions that were tough and I was like, and he knew the answer right off the bat. I’m like, wow, Postscript has the most amazing tech support ever. So you just thought you got a random person that happened to know how to do all that? Yeah. You’re such an optimist. That’s such a sweet thing that you think. Well, I was really impressed because

40:24
Some of these questions, no first level tech would know the answer to, but he knew everything off the top of his head. All right. Okay, so episode 400. Where do you see yourself at episode 800? Where do I see myself? Yeah, like what do you see for yourself? And what is that, eight years away? that the Regarding the podcast or? Regarding the podcast, yeah. I don’t think things are going to change. mean, hopefully I’ll have a larger space to have the podcasting. Yeah. I mean, you don’t need a huge space, but…

40:54
I’ve been dabbling with video, putting the podcast on YouTube. So I’ve actually recently started recording the video. In an ideal world, maybe if I have a larger budget, I actually can get people in a studio where you can actually make a real good video, kind of like how Joe Rogan does it. Or maybe I can fly people in or actually start traveling for some of the bigger names and interview them in person and maybe have like a really nice setup. I guess that’s…

41:22
maybe the next logical step. But outside of that, you know me, like if I find something that works and doesn’t require a lot of brain power or energy, that’s something I can continue forever. I’ll just continue doing it as long as it works. And I think I know the answer to this. But if there was any any person in the world that you could have on the podcast, they don’t have to be Ecom. If you could interview one person, who would it be? Oh, I know. you know the answer is right. Elon Musk. Yeah.

41:49
Yes, I think I figured it was him with Steph Curry being a far second. Although I don’t know what I would talk to him about that would be interesting to the audience, though, because I would probably try to get a little more technical with him because he knows all this stuff. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t think people would want to listen to that episode. But I think people would be interested just because he’s such a weird guy.

42:13
You know what’s funny is you say he’s a weird guy and you know, admittedly on the surface he’s kind of weird, but there’s a lot of people that I used to work with in my job that are kind of like him. Yeah, well, that makes sense. You were an engineer. Yeah. But so that’s actually probably my final question for you, because you were saying you would like to have Elon Musk on. the questions you would ask aren’t necessarily what your audience would ask. But I feel like for the most part for you, the questions you ask are the ones your audience want to know about. So how do you balance like what you really want to know versus

42:42
what you think, well, you what, that probably doesn’t work for the people to listen. Yeah. So usually I ask those questions when the recording is off. OK. Or I’ll ask them and I’ll just kind of I rarely do this actually. Sometimes I’ll cut out some of the stuff that it’s just kind of dribble to most people. Like if I start geeking out on like coding and I and it’s in the flow of conversation, sometimes I’ll cut that out. It’s rare. I usually stay away from anything that’s overly technical.

43:11
because you know I want to talk about microprocessor design real bad. You know that, I know. Actually, one final question. Has anyone ever gotten you choked up? I know you don’t cry unless it’s a Michael Jordan document. I I was just going to say that. I’m like, except for that one time. Is there anyone that has really stirred emotion in you? I know you’re a lot of facts and information, but I’ve listened to some podcasts before. Not yours, obviously.

43:41
It kind of pulls at your heartstrings. Have you ever had that? The only interviews that have affected me even remotely emotionally and I never cried obviously on an episode are my students. Where if they tell me I profoundly changed their lives, that actually makes me feel really good. And it actually reaffirms, sometimes teaching a class sucks.

44:11
Right? But whenever I get one of those students who does well, follows through and attributes it to something that I’ve done for them, that makes me feel really good. And that actually keeps me going. But in terms of answering your direct question about choking up and that only happens for sports documentaries. the old, Jen always jokes about this. The only movie or documentary I’ve ever cried in was the Michael Jordan documentary.

44:40
I know, completely dried-eyed at our wedding. Completely dried-eyed when we gave birth to our children. But Michael Jordan, yes. Have you seen that documentary? I can’t watch it. don’t have enough tissues. Send me some hankies and I’ll be able to watch it. No, it was an IMAX. It was an It wasn’t a documentary. It was an IMAX film. Yeah. And what about you, Jen? I know you said you do listen to the student episodes. How do those make you feel knowing that…

45:06
Steve and you really, because you’re running Bumblebee and you’ve been a big part of all of this, that you hear these people, that their lives have been radically changed by some of the things that they’ve learned. Yeah, I think it’s the same thing with meeting some of the students at Seller Summit. think it’s just really, one, it’s really cool to see how far they’ve grown. So for me, the best students are the ones I’ve actually met in person because you feel that connection. And those are the ones I enjoy.

45:35
Podcasts enjoy also is the ones that some of our friends I like and I enjoy listening to those episodes. But it does make me feel good. But I think a lot of it is they’re self-driven. They’re completely self-driven in general. So I think it’s just taking the action that makes them succeed so much. I’m telling you, we run a course together. And really the success is…

46:00
Really what we do is, I mean, sure we teach strategies and stuff, but really a lot of times we’re like psychologists. Yes. Right? Where you know that this person has the potential and they just have to be, they just need this little push to just follow through with stuff that they could already, were already capable of in the first place. To close it out, if there was one thing that you could do over again with the podcast, do you have anything that you would want to redo, do over with? Are you pretty happy with where you are today? I know you’re happy with where you are today, but-

46:29
If you could get a do-over, would you take it? If I had a do-over. Okay, so the only thing that I kind of regret is, and this is a problem I continue to have, which is just kind of going too cautiously into something and going really cheap in the beginning. But that’s just my nature. I don’t think I can solve that problem. There were a couple of episodes in the middle of the podcast where I kind of went cheap on a few things and so the audio quality wasn’t as good, but I mean, nothing overall.

46:59
I don’t know how to fight this frugality nature in me, but it’s just inherent. Yet two minutes ago, you talked about a studio and flying people out. Well, see, now it’s okay, right? But in the beginning, when you’re not sure things are going to work, I don’t know if you’re… Are you that way? You’re less, I think. I’m less frugal? Yes, you’re less frugal when it comes to starting something new. I’m recording this on a prehistoric laptop. How am I less frugal?

47:26
But realistically speaking, I don’t think you’ll ever get a studio. You say that, but you’re not going to do it. No, sorry. Studio is the wrong… Studio for YouTube for sure. For the podcast, what I would like to do is if there’s someone big, I’d like to fly over to them and carry a mobile studio. That’s what I Oh, okay. Like an inflatable bubble studio with soundproof walls and… Yes. That’s exactly what I mean. Yeah. I can just see that.

47:53
And do you plan on, I know we’ve talked about this a little bit. Do you plan on recording video for your podcast moving forward? Yeah, I have been doing this already. Not for this episode because you guys can’t see Tony right now, but let’s just say she’s not, she’s not dolled up. Not seller summit quality. And seller summit quality. neither might, although my wife looks great. She’s wearing a dress. Jenna always looks great. Yes. But you look like you normally do. So you’re the same.

48:20
Yes, I actually just got off an interview right before this one. Yeah, maybe someday, maybe I’ll dress better. No. Let’s stick to the truth, Let’s stick to the truth. Well, because if you do that when you have people on, obviously, and your show is a guest-driven show, they have to be on video too. It doesn’t make sense if it’s just you and a black screen. That’s correct. Actually, I’ve told my guests now that

48:50
you know, they’re going to be on video. And actually everyone who’s turned up on video so far has been presentable. It’s just you. You’re the one that needs to work on this. you know, that’s funny. One time I interviewed someone who was on one of those treadmill desks. Were they actually treadmilling? They were treadmilling during the interview. And I didn’t actually notice because the treadmill was super quiet.

49:17
They were just bobbing up and down. It was distracting. He couldn’t stop because he had it hooked up so that if he turned the treadmill off, all the power would go off for all of his machinery. He had it rigged up like that to make sure he didn’t Was he on a weight loss program or was this No, it’s just the way he gets steps. Okay. Good for him. Yes. That seems like it would affect the recording, but I guess it didn’t. I didn’t actually check the numbers.

49:47
I just, to me, treadmills aren’t that quiet, but it’s probably a fancy one. Well, I wanna close this by saying congratulations, Steve, on 400 episodes, and we’ll just say hundreds of people that you’ve been able to interview over the past eight years. And more importantly, congratulations to Jen for putting up with recording for the past eight years and putting up with Steve in general for the past eight years. Well, it’s been longer than that for you guys, what, like 17, 18 years?

50:17
But this is a huge accomplishment. 22. You’ve been together for 22. Yeah, 22 years. I just want to commend you too, Tony, for sticking with it for, I don’t know, how many years has it been now? At least seven, I want to say. We’ve known each other eight. It’s been eight years. Yeah. There you go. I mean, it just goes to show how patient the both of you are.

50:45
And I was actually a little apprehensive. I wasn’t joking in the intro. was a little apprehensive at this episode because like if you guys start comparing notes, that’s like that could go down a rabbit hole really quickly. well, that’s a that’s an episode that you’re not going to be on. That’s just Jen and I. We don’t we don’t need you to compare notes. And I look forward to possibly you having Jen on another episode talking about Bumblebee.

51:15
Yes. other things. think I think people that’s what I think, Steve, that you might not know or realize is that I think people really do enjoy getting to know you on the podcast while you have amazing guests. And I think people learn a ton when they listen and get really inspired by a lot of their stories. I think some of the comments that I’ve heard from people over the years about the podcast is they really like all the little nuggets about your personal life and all the things that they learn about you.

51:42
Well, anyone who’s listening out there, thanks a lot for sticking with me for all these years. I’m not going to quit this anytime soon. And I’m going to try to do like a solo episode like every five or six episodes. Well, there you have it. Episode 400 is in the books. And rest assured, the podcast is something that I will likely maintain indefinitely. It’s actually one of the few things that I do in business that I don’t really care if it generates me any revenue at all. If you have any requests for specific guests or topics that you would like me to cover,

52:10
send me an email over at steve at mywifecoderjob.com. For more information about this episode, go to mywifecoderjob.com slash episode 400. And once again, I want to thank Postscript, which is my SMS marketing platform of choice for e-commerce. With a few clicks of a button, you can easily segment and send targeted text messages to your client base. SMS is the next big own marketing platform, and you can sign up for free over at postscript.io slash Steve. That’s P-O-S-T-S-E-R-I-P-T dot I-O slash Steve.

52:38
I also want to thank Clibio, which is my email marketing platform of choice for ecommerce merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned card sequence, a post purchase flow, a win back campaign, basically all these sequences that will make you money on autopilot. So head on over to mywifequitterjob.com slash KLAVIO. Once again, that’s mywifequitterjob.com slash KLAVIO. Now I talk about how I use these tools on my blog, and if you are interested in starting your own ecommerce store, head on over to mywifequitterjob.com.

53:06
and sign up for my free six day mini course. Just type in your email and I’ll send the course right away. Thanks for listening.