Today I’m excited to have Brian Harris on the show. I was introduced to Brian by our mutual friend Grant Baldwin and I actually saw a video of Bryan speak at one of Noah Kagan’s events and I was really impressed.
Anyway Bryan runs the site VideoFruit.com where he reverse engineers what the top marketers are doing online and shows you how to integrate those strategies into your business.
Specifically, Bryan is an expert at growing your email list and launching a product. So today we are going to cover how to quickly build an email list and how to use that list to maximize revenue.
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What You’ll Learn
- How Bryan got started with VideoFruit and why fruit is in the name
- Why Bryan specializes in email marketing.
- The best list building strategies today
- How to get your first 10000 email subscribers in any niche
- How to structure your autoresponders
- How to escape the promotions tab.
Other Resources And Books
Klaviyo.com – Klaviyo is the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store. Created specifically for ecommerce, it is the best email marketing provider that I’ve used to date. Click here and try Klaviyo for FREE.
Ignite.Sellerlabs.com – If you are selling on Amazon and running Amazon Sponsored Ads campaigns, then Ignite from Seller Labs is a must have tool. Click here and get a FREE 30 Day Trial.
ReferralCandy.com – If you’re already getting steady orders every month, adding a refer-a-friend program to your store can give you a new sales channel. And ReferralCandy is the best in the business. Click here and get a FREE $50 credit towards your account.
Now today I’m thrilled to have Bryan Harris from Video Fruit on the show, and we’re going to talk about strategies on how to get your first 10,000 email subscribers for your online business. This is a great episode, and I know that you’ll learn a lot.
But before we begin I want to give a quick shout out to Klaviyo who is a sponsor of the show. Now I’m always excited to talk about Klaviyo because they are the email marketing platform that I personally use for my ecommerce store, and I actually depend on them for over 20% of my revenues. Now you’re probably wondering why Klaviyo and not another provider. Well, Klaviyo is the only email platform out there that is specifically built for ecommerce stores, and here’s why it’s so powerful.
Klaviyo can track every single customer who has shopped in your store and exactly what they purchased which allows you to do many things. So let’s say I want to send an email to everyone who purchased a red handkerchief in the last week, easy. Let’s say I want to set up a special autoresponder sequence to my customers depending on what they bought, piece of cake, and there is full revenue tracking on every single email too.
Klaviyo is the most powerful email platform that I’ve ever used and you can actually try them for free at mywifequitherjob.com/K-L-A-V-I-Y-O, once again that’s mywifequitherjob.com/K-L-A-V-I-Y-O.
I also want to give a shout out to my other sponsor Seller Labs, and specifically I want to talk about their brand new tool Ignite which helps sellers manage their Amazon sponsored ad campaigns. Right now I’m using this tool to manage my Amazon sponsored ads, and it makes things a heck of a lot more convenient.
So number one, I’ve always found it a major pain to generate my PPC reports on Amazon, cut and paste the data over to an excel spreadsheet and use pivot tables before I’m able do any analysis. Well Ignite pulls all that info for you automatically and allows you to easily see what keywords are working and what are not immediately, there is no need to manually create reports or play with excel.
Second of all unless you’re a data geek, Amazon campaign data can be hard to understand, and what’s cool is that Ignite makes keyword and bidding recommendations on the fly that can be applied with a couple of clicks.
So let’s say one of my hankie keywords is bleeding money, well Ignite will alert me of that fact, and I can reduce that bid immediately. So bottom line Ignite makes managing your Amazon’s sponsored ad campaigns so much easier, and the fact that they provide me with alerts means that I no longer have to monitor my campaigns like a hawk.
If there are keywords that are doing well, well Ignite tells me to add them to my exact match campaigns. If my keywords are losing money, well Ignite tells me to either remove the keyword or to reduce the bid. So head on over to Sellerlabs.com/steve where you’ll find awesome tutorials on how to run Amazon PPC ads and the opportunity to try Ignite for 30 days absolutely free. Once again that’s Sellerlabs.com/steve. Now on the show.
Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle, so you can spend more time with your family and focus on doing the things that you love. Here is your host, Steve Chou.
Steve: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. Today I’m excited to have Bryan Harris on the show. Now I was introduced to Bryan by our mutual friend Grant Baldman, and actually saw a video of Bryan speak at one of Noah Kagan’s events recently, and I was really impressed. Bryan runs the site videofruit.com where he reverse engineers what the top marketers are doing online, and shows you how to integrate these strategies into your business, and specifically Bryan is an expert at growing your email list and launching a product.
Now, how important is email? 90% of the sales of my blog and a good portion of my online store sales are through email. So I knew I wanted to have Bryan on the show to see how he does it. So today we are going to cover how to quickly build an email list, and how to use that list to launch a product. And with that, welcome to the show Bryan. How are you doing today, man?
Bryan: Hey, thanks for having me on Steve, I appreciate it.
Steve: So what the listeners don’t know is that Bryan and I we were chatting before I hit record button. He was telling me all these things and I feel bad because he is going to have to repeat some of these things. But one thing that, for anyone out there who is not familiar with Bryan’s story, hey Bryan, give us the quick background how you got started with Video Fruit, and what does video and fruit actually have to do with what you do.
Bryan: It is a riveting example of how names don’t matter, and the worst name possible to pick it out. No, it started April 2013. I had a job working on a conveyor engineering company and didn’t like it. Read a Tim Ferriss blog post. It seems like half the businesses I know started with a Tim Ferriss blog post. So I read a blog post and started little — started making videos on the side for people.
I would go to — this still actually works by the way if people just want to kind of get started real quick, this strategy works well. I went to like the Envato marketplace; I this it’s as I said. I think it is videohive.com, maybe is the name of the video market place. Any way you can buy these templates like after effects and whatever the different, the final card, and different templates of these explainer videos, and then just like insert your graphics and your text into them, hit export and make these really nice looking explainer videos.
So I figured that little work flow via making some for different people that I knew and ask them, I said, “Hey, I got this really cool video, you want me to make you one? They said, “Yup.” So I made one for Noah, for App Sumo, made one for Navel. I didn’t know them, I just cold pitched them.
Steve: You just made it for them for free and they accepted your offer?
Bryan: Yeah, I was like, “Hey I made this cool thing.” Actually the first one I made was for Neil Patel. I had been reading Quick Sprout and the Kissmetrics blog, and he was working there at the time, and one of the ways that Kissmetrics grew in the early days of their blog was through info-graphics. So I just went and turned one of their info, like their statistic graphical info graphics into a video, into like a video info-graphics. You go to Kissmetrics YouTube channel you can probably still see them there, and some really bad videos by me.
But I just cold pitched Neil. I was on his email list, so he sent a newsletter out the next day after I finished the video and he replied to that video and said, “Hey Neil, dude, I love your blog, your info-graphics are great. I’ll turn one of your info-graphics into a video; I notice you don’t do video a lot. I hope it helps.” And he responded back in like no time. He was like, “Man, this is awesome, can we hire you to do more of them?” And I was like, “Yeah, I’d totally will do more if you pay money.”
So we talked and via email, I still have actually never talked to him on Skype or anything to this day, but… and they wound up hiring me and giving me a $3,000 a month contract to turn their blog posts into videos, like in person type of videos. So you can go and see some of those really bad haircuts, really bad camera. If you ever worry about like equipment when shooting videos, just go and look at the videos I made for them three or four years ago now, and it will give you an example of the low barrier to entry on video.
Steve: Okay, we’ll have to link one of those up in the show for sure.
Bryan: I don’t even have the ability to go look at them, I’ll go back. They are actually shot on a C9-20 webcam which is like the $90 webcam that like every video you see online, the first person video was shot in, ended like with those tears of lighting set up in the background. Like they had that video back in the day where they scheduled to do lighting, it’s pretty rough.
Anyway, so I did that, that allowed me to quit my job. I had that $3,000 a month contract and a few other little one off things, and that started Video Fruit. So I had this little strategy of making these videos. Other people were asking me how I made them, so I created a little course on how to make them. And then after I had reached out to the handful of people that I knew online via like Facebook groups I was in and what not, and sold ten or 20 copies of this course, I had the big question in my head of all right, now how do I get random people from the internet to buy stuff from me?
And I think that’s a question, like everyone starting out has. In real life, getting people to buy from you like isn’t a complicated process, it’s still hard, but like at the end of the day if it was like selling lawn mowing services. You can walk up to people house and knock on the door, and ask them if they want to buy your lawn mowing service, right? If you are at a coffee house like you can hire a dude to hold a san on the corner, go to all the cool hipster places, and pass out fliers and some of those people will come to your place and drink coffee.
But an online business, that does not exist. There is no place to go knock on the door, or place to hang out fliers. So a [inaudible 00:08:46] or just a practical thing I was having to solve. It’s all right, I had this course, I had these services, how do I get people to find me? So that’s where the name Video Fruit came from because in the early, early days I had a course. This course still exists somewhere, I don’t even know how to get to it now, but there is this course out there somewhere that teaches you to do this video stuff, and I was selling these services.
So I started a blog as an experiment to try to figure out, all right, how do I get random people from the internet to buy stuff from me? And I would just go and watch podcasts and read blog posts, and listen to all these different strategies that people like Ramit and Gary V. and Seth Godin and Pat Fynn were teaching, and I would just try to mimic them, copy them, model them, improve them, and see if they worked for me.
So if you like go way back in the archives on the blog, like one of the first couple of blog post you will see is one on Gary Vaynerchuk, one on Pat Flynn, one under me. I’m just breaking down, me taking their strategies, trying to reverse engineer them, try them for myself to see what works. And after about a year of that the thing that I found that worked, and actually this is interesting. So like dog training and like parenting advice are very similar, well, they are similar.
Steve: You have Kids, right?
Bryan: Yeah, we have a year and a half old and one on the way. Pre-one year old, they are very similar except you can’t use a shirt collar like kennel that will get you in trouble. But a lot of the actual training stuff is very, very similar. Anyways enough, what I was getting to is in the world — like can we just pay attention to dog trainers. They all bash each other, and they all disagree with each other, dog training, and parenting advice. I can go read Happiest Baby on the Block and read — what is that other one, that’s really popular?
Steve: There is a bunch; I’ve read most of them actually back in the day, yeah.
Bryan: [Inaudible 00:10:28] is the one I was thinking of. So you read that, go look at the Facebook group for baby wise and go look at the Facebook group for Happiest Baby on The Block, and the people just like hate each other. So all that marketing wasn’t quite as venomous, but people disagree just as much. Like you had one person over here talking about, well you have to have a podcast, and somebody over here talking about, if you have a podcast you are stupid because you can’t answer your podcast, just do written content. Other guys are like; video is the greatest thing ever.
But the one thing that was interesting after a year of like studying and reverse engineering and experimenting, the one thing that everyone agreed on was that an email list is the most effective way to sell stuff to people on the internet. So I started trying that, I was like, “All right, let me try starting to build and email list, because I got this course, and I got these services.” So theoretically if I have let’s say 1,000 people on an email list, I could email the list and say, “Hey, come buy my course,” or “Hey, come buy my services,” and a few people would.
So I spent, I don’t remember timelines, I’m losing track of the exact days on this, but once I found out that, that was about, I think it was January 2014, 2015? Yeah, 2014.
Steve: That’s 3 years ago, okay
Bryan: Yeah, about three years ago. Our focus was like, all right, my goal for this year is to grow my email list. I think I had like a 150 people on my list that I — I don’t even know how they joined, it’s some random stuff I did. I wasn’t emailing regularly or anything. And then over the course of that year my goal was to get to 10,000. 10,000 seemed like an inflection point at which there would be some critical mass, and I would be able to have a full time income from this.
So that year I stopped focusing on all the other strategies and just focused on, “All right, how are people growing email lists?” And I tried tons and tons of different strategies. In between January and October I grew the list from a 100 or so people to 10,000 subscribers.
Steve: Nice, okay.
Bryan: And at the point – and Steve you have to stop me any time, I’m rumbling here so-
Steve: No, no, we are going to dig deep into some of these strategies as soon as there is a good stopping point here. Yeah, go ahead.
Bryan: So you get to October, the list is right at 10,000 subscribers and I decided, all right, I’m going to launch some product. And I don’t know, maybe I just kind of forgot about the video course. The original intent was to sell the video course and sell the services, and by this time like a year had gone by, and I was like all right now, like what are people on my list interested in? Are they interested in video? Are they interested in something else?
So I went through this validation method, just looking back at all the content I had published over the previous like it’s ten months, because this was October, from January to October. And I analyzed that content, went through a little validation process with that list, and we can talk in details on. I think it’s a pretty good process that is a conglomeration of what a lot of different people teach, and came up with this product idea that I would just make a list of all the contractors that I used.
So like people that would design stuff, or set up little membership plugins or write stuff for me or design, a lot of them. There was like a list of 20 or 30 contractors. There is going to be a list of contractors, a grouping of all my swipe files. Because over the course of that year I had like taken screen shots of a bunch of landing pages, pop ups, Facebook ads, explainer videos, they were like six or seven different categories of swipe files I had.
And the third thing was the work flows that I used to outsource those things to be built. So like, “All right Bryan, you want this sales page to be created, how do you actually communicate to the coder to get him to like take the design and make? Or how do you communicate to designer to make a design that looks like something you’d like?” So there was those three things, it was called the vault; there was contractors, workflows and swipe files.
Steve: Was this your lead magnet or was that…?
Bryan: No, it’s the product I was going-
Steve: Oh, the product, okay, got it, okay.
Bryan: So, I had this list of 10,000. I had this product, and I don’t remember why but for some reason I lost the six of the 4,000 people. I don’t know if I had a time parameter on that, like you had to be subscribed for the next time something, but the actual emails went out. Opening cart on a Monday, close cart on a Friday, I think there were five, or six emails total and made $25,000 in that first week.
Steve: Okay, so let’s break that down. So when you didn’t know what you were doing, like how did you get those first ten case subscribers? Like what were you doing?
Bryan: Yes, there was a list. So think of it in four different buckets, going from zero to 100, 100 to 1,000, and 1,000 to 10,000. Maybe fourth bucket will be over 10,000, but just ignore that for now if you are underneath. So anytime you hear a strategy, so sequencing is important. You are going to hear a lot of strategies we are going to talk about now. You are going to read podcasts or listen to podcasts, read blog posts, all these different methods, you will hear lots of different things, there is a lot of different ways you can grow an email list.
So what you have to do, what I did was bucketed them in one of those three buckets. For example, Facebook ads, that’s something you hear people talking about all the time. I just got an email a while ago from someone, he was like, “Hey, the only way I grew my email list is through Facebook ads.” If you are just starting out and you have under a 100 subscribers, and the first thing you try to do is grow your email list through Facebook ads, you are completely screwed.
That works really well, but it’s also an advanced strategy, because if you’ve never bought ads before, just writing ads is hard, targeting ads are hard. Cutting lead magnets to people who opt-in for is hard. Cutting email sequences that lead from a lead magnet to buying is hard. So many might be on a podcast and tell you about their cool funnel they had. If the first thing you try to do is go build that, you are done, like the chances of you being successful are really, really, really low. So that’s a great strategy but it doesn’t go on the zero to 100 bucket. It goes in the 1,000 buckets and sometimes the 10,000 in that bucket.
So one great strategy you can start with if you are in the zero to 100 bucket is make a list. Think about the first 100 people as like your ambassadors, like your launch team. These aren’t people you are worried about selling to, these are the people that like you and know you already, and people that can introduce you to the people that are going to buy from you in the future. So a lot of people want to start out by trying to find random people in the internet to opt-in to their list.
You need to able to do that eventually, but the best place to start is with people you already know, and then getting them to introduce you in a very natural, non-weird, car sellsy kind of way to other people that are interested in your exact topic. So-
Steve: So for you personally, like who is this group?
Bryan: Yes, so it’s open up your phone, look at people you’ve texted, look at people you’ve had phone calls with, look in Gmail, look at sent emails, look at Facebook groups you are part of, look at people you’ve twittered, people… just make a list of all the people you are in contact with in regular life. And everybody has 50 to 100 people.
Most people have over 200 people they are in regular contact with or they have talked to in the last six months to a year, and just send them a message that sounds something like this. “Hey, this is — insert your first name. Hey, this is Bryan, I’m starting a new project where I’m going to do X. So where I’m going to teach people how to start an ecommerce store like Man or I sell handkerchiefs, where I’m going to try to figure out how to get random people from the internet to buy stuff from me. Or I’m going to try to figure out how to paddle board.”
A cool approach you can take in this topic just as in a side is using a learn out loud approach. So if you are not sure about your topic, just choose something you are interested in, you can always change later. So if you are interested in learning magic tricks, “Hey, this is Bryan, I’m going to start a little weekly challenge, or I’m going to start to learn how to do magic tricks, I thought this might be something you’d be interested in, do you want in?”
That’s your text, that’s your email, that your phone call, that your whatever communication method you have. 90% of the people will say yes. Once they say yes…
Steve: Because they know you, right?
Bryan: What’s that?
Steve: Because they know you.
Bryan: They know you, yeah and this is interesting. Like think about it from your perspective Steve. Like some dude you went to high school with 20 years ago, 10 years ago, however long it’s been since you were in high school. If John that you were in in 11th grade in English with that you kind of see on Facebook every now and then, messaged you and said “Hey Steve, dude, long time no see, hey, really random thing, but I’m starting this challenge where I’m going to try to learn a new magic trick, like I thought it would be fun and I think this might be something you just like to follow, do you want in?”
Like yeah, that’s really cool, like I don’t really care about magic that much, but that sounds entertaining. At the least it sounds entertaining and maybe through watching your videos I’ll be interested in doing that someday. And maybe if you create a course or a product of some sort six months to a year from now after I watch ten of your videos, maybe I’ll even buy it, but I’ll definitely introduce my other friends who might be interested in the topic too.
Bryan: So just start — it’s a very natural thing, it doesn’t have to be weird, it doesn’t have to be funky at all. Almost anyone can get 100 subscribers in 24 hours just by doing that.
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So for your video outreach, when you were reaching out to Noah, Navel and those guys, was that after you had already had 100?
Bryan: No, I had no email list, and so let’s divide this into two categories. You have grown an email list and that’s selling a freelance service.
Steve: Okay, got it.
Bryan: So to say, like it depends on — well, so for just talking about building an email list, start with the people you already know strategy works well. If you are trying to start with selling a freelance service, there is a whole different strategy which we are more than happy to talk about.
Steve: No, that’s okay. Let’s go down the email route first.
Steve: Sorry, I thought you used them to help you grow your list actually.
Bryan: No, no.
Bryan: And we can give, if you want we can — I have a couple of blog posts I have written about the freelance route if people are like…
Steve: I’ll link those up if you want to send them to me.
Bryan: Yeah, remind me, I’ll give you the links so people can go explore that route too because that honestly, if you are looking for the quickest way to make money online after being in this for three and a half, four years now, that’s the quickest way that exists is doing the freelance service route like I went with Noah, and Navel and Neil Patel.
So we’ll link those up, let’s go back to email list, because email list is the most sustainable way to grow and to keep growing a business that doesn’t require you knocking on doors constantly. It’s a perfect blend of like, passive income and like really good income. Freelance is a good route, like this is what I did, I used freelance to get me out of my day job so that then I could focus on building a sustainable business, because unless you are one of the few people that want to start some kind of agency that you have 50 people employed and doing this agency approach, the freelance stuff you usually run on the runway on that fairly quickly. So just to give you context for both of the approaches.
Bryan: All right, get us on track; I forget where we were there.
Steve: So you did this zero to 100 and…
Bryan: Yes zero to 100, let’s go with one more strategy there, so strategy one, invite everyone you know.
Bryan: We gave you a couple of scripts there. Second strategy that you can use is, go to any community that you are a part of. So a couple of examples of communities you can be a part of, you can be a part of — like let’s use just like online marketing because that’s what’s I’m in mainly.
Bryan: Actually let’s not use that, issues like exercise, like if you are trying to grow an exercise, nutrition, fitness type of email list. Like you are probably in some online communities, and if you aren’t there is a lot of them that exists around this topic. Like type in, like I’m in Nashville, so I’ll type in like natural fitness group, and there is going to be 30 different Facebook groups that pop up for that.
Go join a couple of those and then spend the next week, this doesn’t have to take any more than seven days. Spend the next week and each day set aside five minutes to go engage in that group. So three things for engaging, like a couple of posts, comment on a couple of posts and make a post or two yourself, and the post you make yourself, don’t make them you asking for anything, like trying to get somebody to do something.
Phrase them as questions. Like, hey guys I found this good blog post from Jackson Bloore, it’s talking about intermittent fasting, have any of you experimented with interment of fasting before? It’s is something I’m interested in trying myself.
Like a non-promotional approach, but a questioning, asking and using the group as a resource for your approach. After a week of engaging you can go in for an ask. So the ask would look something — like the first week would be you commenting, you liking, you asking for feedback, not in a promotion type of way at all. Do that for seven days and at the end of seven days then go in for an ask, and this would be a soft ask.
You could say something like, “Hey guys, so I’m going to start a 30 day challenge. Currently I weigh 250 pounds and my goal is to lose 40 pounds over the next 90 days, and I have learned from you guys some different approaches, some different things I can experiment with. I would love your support and I would love your guidance as I go through this. If you’d like to follow me through this journey and give me support and give me guidance and use it to help anybody you know, just leave your email address in the comments section.” If you do that in five or ten different Facebook groups, you will add 50 to 100 subscribers to your list. It works.
Steve: Okay, yeah.
Bryan: Those are two approaches you can take if you have no connections in the industry; you have no existing assets at all. You are starting from scratch, the zero to 100 bucket. You do those two things, you have 100 subscribers within seven days is kind of the parameter we put on. Most people can have that in 24 hours just by inviting people they know already.
Steve: Okay, and then the next bucket is from 100 to 1,000 you said?
Bryan: Yeah, next bucket is 100 to 1,000.
Bryan: So the first thing you want to do here is get some of your assets set up. So most people want to start setting up websites and setting up email services and trying to decide between ConvertKit and Drip and ActivateCampaign and all that stuff before they start their list, don’t do that.
The zero to 100 bucket requires a pen and a piece of paper and a phone and nothing else. No website, no name, no nothing. Once you get to 100, then take all those email addresses you’ve written down on a piece of paper, put it into your spreadsheet or however you have collected those. Don’t send people — caveat, in that zero to 100 bucket, don’t sent people to a landing page.
Just get their email address down on a piece of paper, remove all barriers to entry for people. So when you are texting people don’t text them your URL or sign up, but ask them what’s the best email address for you? Okay, so when you get to 100 to 1,000 bucket, what you have at that point is a list of 100 email addresses written down on a piece of paper. At that time you need to go set up some of the basic stuff. Like go set up a ConvertKit account. If the idea of spending $29 a month is like you are not going to be able to buy groceries this month, go set up a MailChimp account.
But you are going to have to give up MailChimp eventually because it sucks when you go to scale more or less. But if you have to, go use MailChimp to begin with, but know within 90 to 120 days you are probably going to have to switch. So if you can bear to spend $29, go set up a ConvertKit account, that’s a great place to start.
So go set up your email account, go set up your blog if you don’t have one already, go to bluehost.com, use the Stock WordPress theme, don’t hire a designer, don’t ever tell me you are waiting to launch your blog because you are waiting for the design to be set up. Just use a stock theme, set up your ConvertKit account, make sure in the side bar you have a little integration to ConvertKit. ConvertKit will get you everything you need to do that, and then you are ready to go.
Once you get your basic stuff set up you are ready to go. The next thing I would encourage you to do is to start blocking off 15 minutes a day in order to write.
Steve: Okay, so you don’t need content before you start gathering the addresses. The content comes after your first 100?
Bryan: Yeah, because after the first 100, think of those first 100 as your, like your ambassadors, your launch team you are going to use.
Bryan: We’ve gone through the first seven days and we did 100 people, now we are going to spend about a week getting our assets set up. We are going to get the email service set up, we are going to get the blog set up, and then we are going to write for 15 minutes a day, 250 words. 250 words a day and press publish on that at the end of the day Friday. And what we are going to write on, we are going to ask that list of people, we are going to brainstorm out a list of 15 to 20 questions. Let’s take the topic of like magic tricks.
Bryan: So first brainstorm out a list of questions you have on the topic, like I picked this topic because I was randomly curious. Somebody asked me to speak the other day and I don’t really doing speaking that much, well, yeah.
Bryan: So you know what I’m going to do, I’m going to do one talk a year and at that talk should be something crazy, like I’m going to do — I can’t share that, okay, so how did I do what I’m going to do? What I’m going to do in 2018, I’m going to speak at Jeff Goins conference, that’s the only talk I’m going to do between now and then, and I’m going to do this magic trick that’s going to like blow people’s mind, at least that’s my theory right now.
So I was researching like large scale long con magic tricks. Like something that would take me 18 months to set up, right? And I started looking around, and I found like David Copperfield back in like the early 1980s made the Statue of Liberty disappear. That’s like in the Guinness Book of World Records, the biggest object ever be — disappear in a magic trick before. So like I was just researching on Reddit, researching on YouTube and different places, like what a big – like you walk through the Great Wall of China. That was very cool.
Then I was thinking, all right, how did he do it? And people have made YouTube videos of how he made these things happen. So just by giving you that example there, I’ve already listed out like three or four questions ahead, like what are some really good long con magic tricks. Like stuff that took people a decade to make happen, because they like had to set it up so far in advance. What are some of the biggest magic tricks that have ever happened? How did David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear?
If you are going to start an email list on magic tricks, those are three great blog posts to start with. Like what is a list of the 25 best magic tricks ever? Show me; break them down of what happened with them. So-
Steve: So this 15 minutes that you are talking about per day, is it to find these questions or is it to write these pillar posts that you are talking about?
Bryan: So let me make a loop on that.
Bryan: So first step is list out all your questions. Brainstorm them from your head, and the first email you can send to that list of 100 people once you have imported them in your ConvertKit account or whatever you are using is to ask them, “Hey, thanks you so much for being a part of launch team. I appreciate you, what question do you have? Or what like curiosities do you have around magic, around doing magic tricks? Is there anything that pops up?”
So out of sending that email, first is asking me your introduction to your email, that’s going to be your first email you have to send. You are not having to write a blog post or anything, you are just asking them a question. You are going to get another five to ten questions out of that. You are going to brainstorm five to ten out of your head. You are going to ask your list, you are going to get five or ten more, and then each week I just want you to pick one of those questions and spend 15 minutes a day answering that question.
By the end of day on Friday I want you to publish a blog post, send that blog post out to your email list with your answer to that question. So let’s walk that through, what that looks like through the week. So let’s say you have your list of 20 questions. The question you pick for week number one of your blog is, how did David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear?
Okay, so the first day you are going to spend at least 15 minutes. You are going to do a little bit of research to see how he did it. You are going to find a couple of videos really quickly of how he did it. Day number two, you are going to start writing out how he did it. You are going to make some screenshots, you are going to make some diagrams, you are going to write it out, you are going to show how he set it up and spend the next Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday writing that blog post.
Maybe include some video embeds from YouTube; maybe do your own diagrams to show people how that happened. What’s really cool about this approach is if you are taking a learn out loud approach, you are actually learning about this stuff as you are going. So the long con magic trick would be a lot more likely to happen for me in 18 months if I were to start a little magic blog on the side, because I would force myself to learn it via teaching, and the best way to learn anything is to teach it.
So on Monday you pick the topic, you outline it, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday you write on it and Friday you put everything you’ve written on your blog. You go to your email service, you write a quick little summary and put a link to that blog post and send it out to your email list.
Bryan: That’s how you start. So that’s the set up asset piece. You set up your website, you set up your email list, and you start writing for 15 minutes a day. What this does- and I recommend when you start, especially if you’ve not done this before, you start by publishing once a week. Several reasons for that; Number one: it forces you to learn quicker, it forces you to learn the business side; it forces you to learn the topic matter quicker.
Second reason is every blog post you publish is a form of product validation because 90 days from now you are going to be at 1,000 subscribers on your email list if you do the other stuff we are about to talk about.
And once you get to a 1,000 subscribers, you need to start working on your first product. But to create your first product you do not want to do what most people do and just pick a random idea and try to figure out what you think people want and build that. What you are going to do is look back at your analytics over those past 90 days, and look at the blog post and emails you have sent out and analyze them and see which topics, which categories people have been the most interested in.
So, for example, if over those 90 days you have written three blog posts breaking down magic tricks that people have done. You used three more blog posts of you creating magic tricks yourself, three other blog post where you — I don’t know, I don’t even know what magic tricks topics would be used, [inaudible 00:32:07] or something different like contraptions people have made, right?
So you have three or four different categories you’ve written in, tools, breakdowns, and magic tricks inventions, right? So at the end of your 90 days, you are going to look back and just make a little spreadsheet, which one of those categories did people comment on the most, share the most, read the most, click on the most? And-
Steve: Can we back up a little bit Bryan. So as you are writing these posts, do you have to have your blog set up to capture all these email addresses?
Bryan: Yes, so there is a few basic things and we can talk about this for two hours. But yeah, part of the asset setting apart is setting up some basic stuff on your website to collect emails as well.
Steve: Okay, got it.
Bryan: A really quick rundown of that of that is use SumoMe, set up a welcome mat, set up a pop up and make sure the theme you use on the side bar you have something to collect an email on. There is more advanced stuff you can do later, but right now just focus on those things.
That will take you an hour max, you just use Sumo me, and I think SumoMe is free still, I think they have played on some prizes, I don’t know if it’s not, but there is lots of things that would do similar things. I think Lead Pages has a similar plugin as well but yeah, you do want that asset setting up phase, you do want to set up some basic email capture.
Steve: Okay, got it. The content itself is going to start generating more addresses as its being shared and that sort of thing, right?
Bryan: Yeah, that’s not the primary method, but yes it will generate email addresses, we can talk about some direct email generation techniques here in just a second. I just hope people have full kind of view of how that is going to go from setting up those assets; the email list is being run. There are some tactics you can use for that, and then how that’s going to result in you actually having a product to sell that’s based on that list.
Bryan: So as you are evaluating that content you’ve written over the last 90 days, you are just going to break it down by category, see the category people have engaged with the most, and then you are going to go through a validation process on a product in that category. And we can link Steve, maybe we can link up a product validation post we wrote that will give people a lot more in-depth that we can go to on that.
Steve: Absolutely, sure.
Bryan: Just know when you are writing each week, in the beginning, your 100 people are going to be seeing it, you are also going to be doing some list building strategy that is completely separate from your content as well. So your list is going to be growing, so more people will see it each week, but as people see it they are validating and reassuring and showing you what product to create, because after the end of that 90 days you have lots and lots of interest in like magic trick breakdowns you do, well your product needs to be on that not the other topic that didn’t get any interest at all.
So there is a whole methodology where you can figure out that product but that’s kind of the basic framework for it. So let’s talk about growing the list in the 100 to 1,000 category. So the content is going to help a little bit, but in the beginning it’s not going to be a massive contributing factor. There is a couple of different strategies that you can use in this phase – I’m trying to pick out, let’s see. Let’s focus on two of them.
One of them, one of the kind of easiest and funnest is to do podcast interviews. So podcast interviews is actually a really good example of a strategy that works well in one bucket, and then you kind of phase out others as you go later.
So podcast interviews if you do correctly and this podcast isn’t a good example of that. So don’t pay attention to what I’m doing here. Go look at some of the older interviews that I have done. Go look at the Mixergy interview from two to three years ago; I’m trying to think of another one, oh Lead Pages podcast, ConversionCast episode. I don’t know, it’s in the first 50 episodes; go listen to that one, but if you do, podcast interviews are really easy to get.
If you have your website set up and if you’ve published a couple of posts, podcast interviews are looking for people to interview actively. If you have one ounce of credibility, and that credibility can be built by having a website set up and having a few posts on it, and you do some basic outreach stuff, you can land a podcast interview each week.
The key to making podcast interviews grow your email list though is two things. Number one; knowing exactly what topic you are going to be talking about on that interview before you start. Okay, that’s sort of the obvious, but you will be surprised how many podcast interviews don’t even prep you for that.
Steve: I did not prep Bryan by the way or anything prior this.
Bryan: Yes, just be a little prep, just spend 30 minutes prepping for that, right? So you know the topic, that’s something you can do. Don’t rely on the host to do that for you, just work it in the emails as you talk to the host. And number two, have a downloadable that you pitch multiple times on that podcast interview, but don’t be weird about the pitching of it.
So an example if I were to prep properly for this podcast and was trying to use it as a list building strategy I would say, “Hey you know, so I’ve put together a special bundle for everyone here, you get a videofruit.com/Steve, and there is a listing of some email outreach scripts you can use to align your first podcast interview. There is some email sequences you can use when you do your first product clause, and there is also a video walking you through how to pitch the freelance service thing we talked about.
So that page as of this recording doesn’t exist, but what you can do is after the interview, go set up. Like during the interview just invent whatever the download is you want to give away and pitch the URL.
Steve: So notice that Bryan did suggest certain URLs already in this interview that I’m going to link it up.
Bryan: Yes, I’m going to have to set up the different accounts for Steve, thanks. By the time you listen to this podcast interview we will have that set up…
Steve: well played Bryan, well played.
Bryan: Not of right now, and if Steve will follow make up with me like in a month, I will show how many email subscribers you get from that just so you can see. So let met you give you an example of how this works. I did one with the ConversionCast episode – I don’t know, that’s been a couple of years ago now, and we picked up like 350,000 email subscribers in that one podcast interview.
So find other interviewers, other people that are doing podcast on your topic or tangential topics. Pitch them on an interview, and then have a downloadable that you either have prepared ahead of time or that you prepare during the interview just like I just did, and give the URL out on the interview. Second where you can go super ninja on that is to use something like lead links or have a text opt-in code.
So you can say, “Hey, if you want to get all these downloadables – and I’m not going to set this up, so don’t do this, but text Video Fruit to 50500, and you can just have all those.” And what would happen is you text that, it would send you a message back just saying, “Hey, if you want to get the downloads, just enter your email address here,” and then we’ll email you those things and you build your email list from that.
So that’s one great way to build in that 100 to 1,000 category. Podcast interviews are really easy to book, they might feel intimidating if you’ve never done them before, but they are not. You can totally start with low hanging fruit. Start with people that don’t have superpower of their podcast and learn.
Another good resource for this, Kai Davis has done a lot of teaching on like doing podcast interviews. So you can go maybe prep a little bit and read some of Kai’s stuff, and then have a downloadable for them. So that’s technique number in the 100 to 1,000 bucket. Technique number two is one that has been around forever, and it’s called guest posting.
Google — if I remember, I’ll put this in that resource link I gave you, videofruit.com/Steve. There is a certain way…
Steve: Sorry, go on, sorry, I apologize.
Bryan: No, that’s fine. There is a certain way you can guest that works really, really well and it’s called Expanded Guest Post. So just Google for time’s sake, I don’t know how long we are going here Steve, just Google expanded guest post. I’ll include in this videofruit.com/Steve link as well, and it walks you through how to do guest posts so they build your email list. Because a lot of people will spend tons and tons of time writing a guest post.
I had a coaching client a year or so ago, they spent 25 hours writing a guest post for this really popular fitness site and he picked up like 20 subscribers from it. That’s not worth your time, you can literally just go knock on people’s doors and collect email addresses quicker than that. You can randomly message people on Facebook groups and communities you are in and get email addresses quicker than that.
So be sure that you build your guest post in a really good way. So let me tie these two tactics together we’ve talked about. We’ve talked about podcast interviews and guest posting. There is a lot of other things you can do, these are two of the easiest ones to can start with. So I used a podcast interview on the ConversionCast podcast for Lead Pages a couple of years ago to pick up 350 email subscribers.
After that podcast interview, I then pitched the Lead Pages content editor and said, “Hey, I just did this podcast interview with Tim, it went rather well, we got these many comments, and we got this unsolicited feedback from it. I would like to do a follow up guest post on your blog, and just go into more depth on this topic. Would that be something you would be interested in?” They said yes. I did that, I used the expanded guest post framework that you can go read about more and picked up on it.
It was like 1,500 or so subscribers, maybe it was a 1,000. It was right at 1,000 subscribers from that one guest post. So 350ish from the podcast episode, 1,000ish from the guest post, and then about six months or a year later I followed up again. I said, “Hey guys, I have this other idea for a blog post to kind of build upon this topic even more, would you all be interested in letting me write a guest post?” And they said yes, and we picked up a little over a 1,000 subscribers again from that.
All total from just those three instances, our podcast interview and two guest posts, we picked up over 3,000 email subscribers, just from doing those two things.
Steve: I just want to take a moment to tell you about a free resource that I offer on my website that you may not be aware of. If you are interested in starting your own online store, I put together a comprehensive six day mini course on how to get started in ecommerce that you should all check out.
It contains both video and text based tutorials that go over the entire process of finding products to sell all the way to getting your first sales online. Now this course is free and can be obtained at MyWifeQuitHerJob.com/free. Just sign up right there on the front page via email and I’ll send you the course right away. Once again that’s MyWifeQuitHerJob.com/free. Now back to the show.
I’m going to estimate that you are going to get maybe five from this one, so I’d keep your expectations low.
Bryan: Yeah, but for some of these that’s what’s the good strategy in the 100 to 1,000 bucket, because at where I’m at now we are over 100,000 email subscribers. Like picking out five subscribers just isn’t worth the time, but there is other things, there is other assets we have that we can use that same time and have exponential more growth.
So I don’t like to focus on podcasts and like Steve had to follow up on me 100 times getting me to do this podcast interview, and I’m glad I did, but it’s not something we do from like a direct growth perspective right? But if you are not in that 1,000 bucket, you are scrapping and you are getting every subscriber you can.
So a podcast episode that you have to spend an hour for and prep for 30 minutes for and you pick up 30 subscribers isn’t totally worth your time. Like do ten of those and you have 300 subscribers. Just do them over and over and over again and try to leverage those podcast interviews into guest posting opportunities where you use that expanded guest post framework. So those are two things, you can just focus on those two things and get to 1,000 subscribers in 90 days if you just execute those two.
There are some other stuff that we don’t have enough time to go through every single strategy that exists, but-
Steve: Let’s skip ahead to like, if you have — to where you are now. Let’s say you have like over a 100,000 subscribers, what are some of your larger scale tactics form that point on?
Bryan: So one thing that we use to grow, one of the main things we use to grow from 10,000 to 100,000, it took us about a year and half to do that was partnerships, and partnerships we’ve tried three or four different kinds of packaging of those. One – so this is just an observation thing. I still just look at what other people do and try to model that and improve upon it. That is the main thing I do. So I’m like, all right, what did Noah do to grow AppSumo to 750,000 subscribers in like a year or two? Because that’s been crazy growth.
Or what is James Clear doing to have, I don’t know, three or 400,000 email subscribers now. So one thing AppSumo does a great job with is partnership, and you have to really look at strategies behind that strategy to see this sometime, but they’ll do a partnership with – I’m trying to think of an example off the top of my head.
Bryan: I don’t remember how they structure that one.
Bryan: But let me use one outside of the context. I don’t want to say that it’s something they didn’t, but one example of doing that that we’ve done is — actually this works really well. this actually gets a little — this could be in the 100 to 1,000, definitely 1,000 to 10,000 bucket. And we still do this today because it doesn’t take much time, and it still grows the list by a couple of 100 every month, and without us really doing a whole lot.
So we’ll team up with other people to have products, tangential products to ours. So for example Jeff Goins, Jeff Goins sells a course and his main topic is like writing and building a platform for authors. So every launch he’s done, the last three or four launches, we’ve donated an entry level product of ours to him that he can use as a bonus in his launch.
So we have a course — my entry level course on list building, and anybody that’s bought his course in the last three launches has got that product for free. What that does though on our side, for them to get that product, they have to go, enter their email address, or actually no, Jeff just sends us a CSV file of all of his buyers, and we onboard all of his buyers into our course. So we will pick you know 400 or 500 buyers in a launch, and we’ll pick up 400 or 500 email subscribers.
These aren’t just email subscribers; these are people that have paid money to someone to directly vouch for us. These are like, these people buy at three times the rate, or there about of typical email subscribers. These are great, they are free, all we did was donate a product. So it’s worth, once you get over a 1,000, it’s worth creating a product just to do the strategy with, and just do one of those a month. You get 500 email subscribers a month, that’s 6,000 subscribers over the course of the year; just from giving an entry level product away, like it works really well.
Another example is doing like a partnership launch, like we would do these, let’s see, this is the summer of 15, we grew it from 12,000 subscribers to 40,000 subscribers between our launches in the spring and in the fall. And the only thing I did was I reached out to people and said, “Hey, I would like to do a webinar with you. But let’s not call it a webinar, let’s call it a workshop, and let’s not pitch anything, let’s make it complete value add. And I’ll give you the recording of the workshop later on where you can use a lead magnet to opt in on your site. You could use it as a bonus in your course, I’ll even write a guest post where we take that webinar and turn it into a written content. You can SEO for and use for email nurturing and stuff in the future.”
So I just reached out to a bunch of people and said, “Hey, here is my idea, I have never done this before, but I think it could be cool.” And I think there is probably somebody that said no, but I think everyone said yes to it. And what happens in that arrangement is, let’s say me and you did this Steve. We basically do everything for you, so all you have to do is say yes. We have one little quick call to make sure we are align on the topic, and then do analysis of your list and what not. And then a week later we give you a Google doc, it’s called the kick off doc and it has every email you send to your list, all the links, the love [ph] age. Exactly, everything is going to work.
So it’s completely painless from your side, and then you just send a couple of emails to your list and say, send your My Wife Quit Her Job list and say, “Hey, we are going to host this workshop with Bryan on this building, we have this podcast episode on this topic. We are going to have a free workshop on this topic as well. We are going to go into more depth, Bryan is going to answer your question live. In the podcast episode we did go into depth on what if you tried to reach out to everyone in your strategy? What if you tried the form strategy and you still don’t get to 100? What do you do then?”
We didn’t go into depth on other strategies, like what to do if the podcast and guest posting strategies didn’t work. We didn’t even touch what to do in the 1,000 and 10,000 mark. We didn’t touch how to have $100,000 launch. We didn’t do any of that, so in this workshop we are going to talk about all of that. So if you like the podcast episode, come register for the workshop. Like that’s a really good pitch actually, you could…
Steve: It is, I was like Bryan, are you pitching me right now because this is…
Bryan: Yeah right, so just sick, it’s like use a podcast interview to pitch someone to do a workshop. No, I’m kidding. So if Steve emailed that out to his list like a 1,000 of you would opt-in for that. And all Steve — all I did was do all the work for Steve, pitch Steve on doing it, and Steve emailed his list directly to a landing page that I am, because I’m doing all the work. So we send the follow up emails to make sure they get live. We host the webinar with some follow up emails after to make sure you get the replay, and we grow our list by 500 to 1,500 people.
So I did that 30 times in that six month time frame between our spring launch and fall launch and grew from list 12,000 so to 40,000 between launches. And you don’t even have to have a product to sell. You just have straight value add, teach live on the website — live on the webinar. The cool thing about that strategy is, unlike guest posting where you have to come up with new unique content every time, on a workshop you just do the same workshop. You don’t have to create new content. It’s just like a speech; you just give it over and over and over again.
Now if you are good you try to improve it, and make it better and what not, but that’s one strategy that’s worked well. Another thing you can bolt on the end of that is do a pitch at the end where you sell something and split the commissions with your partner.
Steve: Right, yeah that’s something that I have done in the past and that works really well too.
Bryan: Right, let’s tile these things together. Let me give you another example, so you can just see how this works, and you can go Google search all this stuff as well. So I did a podcast interview of Pat Flynn, I don’t know, a year and a half ago probably. We did the interview, I think it come out December of 15 maybe, and I may be getting my dates wrong, just Google Bryan Harris, Pat Flynn, whatever and it will pop up.
So Pat reached out to me and asked me to do a podcast interview. You could also pitch Pat; you don’t have to wait for him to reach out. You can actually pitch people. I wouldn’t start with Pat if you are just starting off. Start with people one or two ranks above you, not ten ranks above you.
But just for context of how this works, Pat asked me to do an interview. So I did a podcast interview, after the podcast interview, I did everything I could to make that the comment section of that podcast interview be the most commented on podcast interview ever. I think it got to number three. There was like 750 comments.
So I emailed my list, I jumped in and replied to a bunch of comments. I think he’s redesigned the site now, and I think all those comments, I don’t know if they show up anymore, but I was really bumped when he redesigned those, but just from a pure vanity metric stand point I was just like one of the record, I didn’t quite get it but anyway. Then I emailed Pat like a month or two later and I was like, “Hey Pat, people loved our podcast episode.” And by the way that podcast episode is on product validation, so if you want more in depth stuff on that, I’ll link that up in that videofruit.com/Steve thing as well, so you can go get that, you can listen…
Steve: One other tactic is to repeatedly say the URL with the podcast interview also.
Bryan: And this is not even my intent at all, just so you can go get it, and we’ll do a cool course for our email and ask 70 subscribers and people can see how it works. Anyway so we did the podcast interview. A few months later I emailed him and said, “Hey Pat, the podcast interview went really well. We got 700 plus comments, here is a few snapshot of people that have had good success with the stuff we talked. What if we did a no pitch webinar? So we are not selling anything, you are not buying any relationships with your list or drawing of or pulling out of the relationship bank at all. Let’s just do a workshop where we teach this building stuff in more in-depth.”
So he said yes. I sent him the kick of doc with all the emails written, the landing pages set up. Everything done for him, all he had to do was email the list twice. And we picked up, I think from that workshop we picked up around 3,500 email subscribers from it.
Bryan: And after that I was like, “Hey Pat, what if- and like a month later I had a course launch going on, this was last spring. So hey Pat, so you have 3,500 hundred people that registered for this workshop, what if I just count all of those people as leads for you being an affiliate for this 10K sub launch. So they didn’t opt-in to buy anything, but I’m just going to say any of these 3,500 people that buy 10K subs; I’ll give you half the money for them. All I want you to do is just promote it a couple of more times as well, so email at a time or two, social media or something.
So he did and I don’t remember his numbers now, they are probably are public on his income report blog, but I think he generated around 50 to $60,000 of affiliate income that started with a podcast interview, that then turned into a workshop, that then turned him into him being an affiliate for 10K subs, right so-
Steve: Crazy man, yeah.
Bryan: You can start with just a little podcast interview and leverage that into all different types of other stuffs. So I don’t remember what the question was now, I’ve talked so long, but there are some examples of some I guess more advanced things you can do. Partnerships work well. SEO or something, follow Bryan Dean backlinko.com, he is a genius at that. He is the best minimalist blogger I think that exist.
Steve: He’s got 37 posts I think.
Bryan: Yeah, I think it’s – yeah it’s like 35, because he deletes older posts, and he – I don’t know if he shared his numbers publicly, so I don’t want to share his numbers, but they are really, really, really good. He has almost no employees, no contractors. He writes one blog post maybe every three months and just destroys it with SEO. And so on SEO; just go do what Bryan says.
Steve: He was a guest on my podcast, if you guys want to Google My Wife Quit Her Job Bryan Dean, you’ll listen to that episode.
Bryan: Cool, yeah so SEO is another one. PPC for Legion, it works really, really well. That is more advanced. Don’t start that now even if it might be attractive, that’s something that’s working really well for us. We are adding two to 300 subscribers a day to our list from that plus two to three X in our money that we spend on those people within 30 days, so that’s a great [inaudible 00:52:28] opportunity.
Those are the three main things we are focused on, and there is other stuff. Like I’m experimenting with some funky Instagram stuff right now that’s — I haven’t seen people talking about this strategy, but I might talk about it publicly if we try and get any kind of result out of it. But I’m trying — I’m just kind of experimenting with some random stuff, but for the most part our growth strategy is this. What’s working already, do that until you’ve run it all the way through until it stops working, like maximize what’s working.
So the three things that work for us are SEO, partnerships and PPC. So 80% of our efforts are focused on those on grow, the other 20% we just do random crazy stuff just to have fun and sometimes we’ll just pick up stuff that works. So maybe this Instagram stuff works for us, and actually getting leads on Instagram is as easy as getting people to buy. So that’s what we are kind of experimenting all the way to the funnel with that to see if we can make that work. It probably won’t honestly, but hopefully we’ll add a fourth main channel to our growth strategy by the end of the year.
Steve: Just curious Bryan, how much are you paying per lead when you are running your ads?
Bryan: Okay, so let me context this, because this is something that people talk about a lot and is completely misleading and doesn’t matter at all. So what matters in your business, assuming you have cash at all, assuming you have like 100 bucks or 1,000 bucks or 100,000, like whatever your cash is, what you spend doesn’t matter, what matters is how much you make off that money. So like I paid a coach six months ago $10,000 for the day, that’s a lot of money to pay.
Like it took me three weeks to decide to spend the money and I still was hesitant, and was nervous the entire time. But it isn’t about the 10,000, it’s about what that 10,000 makes me, and this is a really super basic concept that I didn’t get until recently, this is why I’m talking about it.
Maybe all of you understand this and this is stupid, if so just fast forward, but it isn’t about, like if I spend a dollar on a lead, because if the one dollar lead only produced 50 cents, I lost 50 cents. If I can buy a lead that cost me $12 and that lead produced $100, I’ll buys as many of those all day long; I don’t care if I can get a dollar lead because the $12 leads are working.
So these are the two things we track in PPC Steve. We track our CPL, cost per lead, and RPL, revenue per lead. Those are the only two numbers that matter. How much does the lead cost and how much does the lead generate, and that percentage, the profit margin between those are what we optimize for. So to answer your question specifically, we are anywhere from $2 to $4 a lead now on the funnels we are running, but that’s the average.
The ones that produce the most revenue cost more. They are usually in the $10 to $12 range. So the $2 to $4 leads, like the actual people that pay $2 to $4 — we pay $2 to $4 for don’t produce as much income as the more expensive leads. I don’t really know why that is, but there is probably some crazy analytical reason we can dig into for that.
Bryan: RPL, CPL or CPL, RPL, those are the two things to track, how much are you spending on a lead. Don’t optimize for that, optimize for the margin between them, and that might mean that you pay more money per lead, but you are generating a larger profit margin almost every time, for us at least that’s been the case. The more we spend on a lead, if the funnel has done well, this is assuming a lot if things in here.
This is why this is an advanced strategy — Usually the profit margin goes up, so as we increase spend per day. If we are spending ten bucks a day, and some of this doesn’t even matter. If you are spending 1000 bucks or 1,000 or 10,000 a day, scaling up is usually where you see that CPL go up and the profit margin matters.
Steve: Bryan, we’ve been chanting for quite a long time, and I want to be respectful of your time. Where can people find you if they have questions for you, and what is the URL of that downloadable again?
Bryan: Yeah, so videofruit.com/Steve is going to be the magic downloadable that we are going to set up between the time of recording and the time that this goes live. We are going to have a bunch of different links of all the different resources we mentioned, also on the show notes, I’m sure Steve will have this as well. But if you want to grab a few other things and maybe we’ll throw a few special little bonuses in there as well or a few different pieces of software that we build recently.
Steve: And when are we doing that webinar you said?
Bryan: Yeah man, let’s talk about it. We’ll do a webinar; we’ll do a web pitch webinar, and go more in depth on this. We’ll work out the details of that. Maybe that will be on that page as well.
Steve: All right, it sounds good Bryan. Hey thanks a lot for coming on the show, I really appreciate it.
Bryan: Thanks Steve. See you.
Steve: All right, take care.
Hope you enjoyed that episode. Bryan Harris is one of the best guys in the industry when it comes to building an email list and creating a high converting sales funnel. So make sure you go check out his site and sign up for his newsletter. For more information about this episode, go to MyWifeQuitHerJob.com/Episode169.
And once again I want to thank SellerLabs.com. Their tool Ignite is what I use to manage my Amazon PPC campaigns. Instead of the old tedious way of generating reports, analyzing your ad campaigns in Excel, Ignite aggregates all that info for you in one place, and allows you to quickly visualize your data to make decision quickly.
So not only does it save time, but it also makes managing your Amazon campaign so much easier. So head on over to Sellerlabs.com/Steve and sign up for a free 30 day trial. Once again that’s SellerLabs.com/Steve.
I also want to thank Klaviyo which is my email marketing platform of choice for ecommerce merchants. You can easily put together automated flows like an abandoned cart sequence, a post purchase flow, a win back campaign, basically all these sequences that will make you money on auto pilot. So head on over to MyWifeQuitHerJob.com/K-L-A-V-I-Y-O, once again that’s MyWifeQuitHerJob.com/K-L-A-V-I-Y-O.
Now I talk about how I use these tools on my blog, and if you are interested in starting your own ecommerce store head on over to MyWifeQuitHerJob.com and sign up for free six day mini course. Just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast, where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com.