441: The Real Reason You Aren’t Making Progress And How To Get Out Of Your Head With Daniel DiPiazza

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You’re listening to the My Wife Could Her Job podcast, the place where I bring on successful bootstrap business owners and dig deep into what strategies they use to grow their businesses. Now today, I have a very special guest on the show, Daniel Dupiazza. Now one of the reasons why I love Daniel is because he’s such a passionate guy and he’s great to talk to if you want to get out of the way of your own head. So in this episode, we’re going to talk about how to get past your own mental hurdles and make forward progress with whatever you want to achieve in life. But before we begin, I want to let you know that tickets for the 2023 Seller Summit

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are now on sale over at SellersSummit.com. It is the conference that I hold every year that specifically targets e-commerce entrepreneurs selling physical products online. And you all probably know me well enough by now to know that my event has zero fluff. Every speaker that I invite is deep in the trenches of their e-commerce business and not high-level guys who are overseeing their companies at 50,000 feet. Every year we cut off ticket sales at around 200 people and it’s a very intimate event. Everyone eats together and everyone parties together every single night.

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And I personally love smaller events and tickets always sell out far in advance. Now, if you’re an e-commerce entrepreneur making over 250k or $1 million per year, we also offer a special mastermind experience where we break up into small groups, lock ourselves in a room, cater in food and help each other with our businesses. Now, the Seller Summit is going to be held in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from May 23rd to May 25th. Go to SellersSummit.com. I also want to thank Postscript for sponsoring this episode. Now, if you run an e-commerce business of any kind,

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You know how important it is to own your own customer contact list. And this is why I focus a significant amount of my efforts on SMS marketing. SMS or text message marketing is already a top five revenue source from my e-commerce store. And I couldn’t have done it without Postscript, which is my text message provider. Now, why did I choose Postscript? It’s because they specialize in e-commerce stores and e-commerce is their primary focus. Not only is it easy to use, but you can quickly segment your audience based on your exact sales data and implement automated flows like an abandoned cart at the push of a button.

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Not only that, but it’s price well too and SMS is the perfect way to engage with your customers. So head on over to postcook.io slash Steve and try it for free. That’s P O S T S C R I P T dot IO slash Steve. And then finally, I want to mention my other podcasts that are released with my partner, Tony. And unlike this one where I interview successful entrepreneurs in e-commerce, the profitable audience podcast covers all things related to content creation and building an audience. No topic is off the table and we tell it like how it is in a raw and entertaining way.

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So be sure to check out the Profitable Audience Podcast on your favorite podcast app. Now onto the show.

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Welcome to the My Wife Quitter Job podcast. Today I have my buddy Daniel De Piazza back on the show. Now, if you do not remember Daniel, I had him on the podcast back on episode 103 and 161, I want to say four years ago, where we talked about how to ditch your average job and start an Epic business, but it’s been a long time since we’ve spoken at length. Last time, Daniel was running Rich 20 something and he had just acquired under 30 CEO.com.

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but he’s moved on to a site called Alpha mentorship.com covering web three O and crypto. And he has a new podcast called the new wave entrepreneur. And he actually just released a brand new book called the true artifact 33 lessons on creativity, purpose and life and love. And the reason why I wanted to have Daniel back on the show is not to talk about crypto, but how to grow as an individual and an entrepreneur and make forward progress with whatever that you aim to achieve. In other words,

03:33
This episode is going to be about how to get out of your mind. So welcome back to the show, Daniel, for the third time. What’s up, man? Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it. So, hey, man, catch me up. I know we’ve already had you on the show twice already. So there’s no need to start from the very beginning, but I am curious what you’ve been up to in the last four years. It seems like Rich 20 something is no more. Well, I’m 34. I’m 34. I mean, it had a shelf life on it. People say, bring Rich 20 back. said, guys, I physically can’t. I can’t. It’s over. Deal with it.

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And most of the stuff from Mitch 20 were things that I started thinking about in my late teens and early 20s. I rode that pony and I got off and I got onto another horse. That’s okay. You can do that. But you know, the way you did it though, I’m just, cause it had a lot of SEO value also. Yeah. was getting all this traffic. It’s gone. don’t I don’t care. Life is ephemeral. Okay. Move on. Okay. Realistically, yes, I could have done it. I could have done it more.

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I have done a better job of migrating all the SEO and doing all that stuff. if you want to know the truth of it, when I started that site, was lucky in a way to have started that at the right time, at the right place. And I’m good at writing, so that’s not a problem. But it was more like I wasn’t really intending to create this big thing. I was just writing for me on a personal level, and it kind of blew up because of the confluence of events. And so…

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I didn’t have a master plan for how I was going to migrate it because I, I, I got a book deal for this thing. And by the time I got the book, I said, Oh God, now I’m responsible for, for managing this thing. And it was never really my intention. And so it wasn’t, I didn’t feel too emotionally scarred to leave it behind. Interesting. There was so much good content on there. And then the book came out of it. Yeah, that’s okay. Okay. I I admire that actually. What should I have done? I mean,

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Would I keep running? Because I thought about this, I played it off my head into my 40s. How would I run it? Like, would get someone else to run it, I guess I could sell it, I guess, but I don’t know, like, you know, I mean, you could just left it up and just let the leads continue to come in, I guess, or sell it even. I don’t know. could. got the main value out of it, which was the email list and the subscribers and I talked to them all the time. So that’s really what I care about. Are you still running under 30 CEO then? No, I sold that in 2019. Oh, okay. Yeah.

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I mean, cause also I turn 30 is that yeah, it’s like, doing this. Like, know, I mean, you’re one career job, but if she gets another job, you’re kind of being disingenuous by running the show, but I’m not going to judge you for it. You know, me, I had to be completely honest. I’m not under 30 and I’m not a rich 20. had to move. Okay. Interesting. All right. So, all right, well let’s move on from that then. So you sell that you, you, you change rich 20 something into alpha mentorship.

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How did that all lead you to like the true artifact and writing a personal development book? I have been writing for my whole life. And when you write online, one of the things about writing online is that you get immediate feedback usually. And that feedback trains you to write certain things because then you get the response like you get a cookie. And so you write the thing that gets you the best response and then you write more of that. And then over time, sometimes you’ll push yourself in the direction of you getting the greatest response.

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And that’s a great way to get SEO and traffic and to build leads. And it’s a great business tactic and it’s, it’s fun too. But what I found over the years is that, you know, if you look at just the idea of rich 20, that was me writing from one avatar of myself, which is just a way of talking about business and a way of talking about motivation in a way. And that’s fun. But as I started to progress over the years, I realized that what I was getting the most praise for.

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and the stuff that I was writing about the most wasn’t the stuff that I was really writing in my personal time, the things that I enjoyed writing the most, the things that were most meaningful to me. And over time, there became a greater gulf, a great gulf between what I was putting out and what I thought was important. And so that’s another reason why I kind of, I felt a need to separate myself from the original brand. And I went to my agent and my publisher over a period of years, like this is between maybe

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2018, 2019, I said, I have these new ideas. These are the things I like to write about. have a deep interest in deep personal development, psychology, spirituality, things like that, things of that nature. they never said no, but they basically said in so many words, we don’t want that. We’re into business. We know business sells. We know how to look at those books and try again. And I said, well, maybe I’ll publish some stuff independently. They said, oh.

08:18
If you publish them independently, that’s going to affect your the next advance that you get because we’re going to judge your independent book sales as a metric of a recent release and we’re going to pay you based on whatever those book sales are. That sounds like a threat almost. It is a threat. But you know, it’s the same in the music industry. That’s why a lot of musicians will release mixtapes, not albums, because mixtapes aren’t counted against their official stats in a lot of ways. So when they go to a big label, you can’t say that you’ve released an official studio album before.

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And that’s just a way of naming it. But, you know, that just got me thinking. I didn’t really have much reason to stay with a publisher or with an agent. And I don’t have any ill will against them. had a good experience working with them for the first time, but it set me off my own way. And over a period of years, I started to develop my own philosophy around life. And what I wrote between 2016 and 2021 ended up becoming the first of what’s going to be a series.

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these very different books that explore these deeper areas of life. And by giving myself the permission to write this work and not have to be dependent on a publisher to put me out or an agent to get me a deal. It’s given me a lot of creative freedom and it’s really opened the floodgates on me. mean, people were asking for a while, why don’t you write Wealthy 30 something or the Rich 20 something follow-up? And I was at a writer’s block, which doesn’t really exist. But I’m like, I can’t think of anything else to say. I’ve already told you this stuff. I don’t have anything else to say.

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But as soon as I gave myself permission to write this next book, which is really just a collection of things that I had been writing personally for myself for about five years, I have behind me 11 books planned out. like, you know, all I can do is just produce them fast enough to be able to fulfill at this point. And so really, that’s how know I’m on the right track. You know, it’s funny, I used to enjoy writing a lot more.

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And then I got slapped by Google and I had to write a certain way to get in the rankings. And now it’s not fun for me anymore. So I’ve actually outsourced the writing of like that stuff. But, but I do write like the, more personal development stuff myself. And I started doing video where you can be a lot more creative, where SEO doesn’t matter as much.

10:31
Totally. Well, you know, Google has pretty getting pretty sick with their SEO now they can they’re like reading lips and doing transcriptions and but yes, yes, you’re right. Exactly. Yeah. But in YouTube land, like SEO doesn’t matter nearly as much. No, no, it’s just what it’s just what catches organically with people. But I admire what you’ve done. It sounds like you’ve, you know, neglected SEO and you’re just writing about what you want, which is awesome. Well, you know, SEO is only one tool. And I think that also I’m looking at more of a long term perspective, when you own your IP. So when you are

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when you’re beholden to like, and this is for any creative, you you have this idea, and especially before the internet, this idea of like having a big publishing house or a big label or big studio, give you the spotlight and that will build your career. And that was how I went into my, the interstages of my career. But what I realized was I don’t actually like, I have my old book here. I don’t, I don’t actually own this. I don’t actually own this IP. So I can’t, I can’t even give it away if I want to. can’t even technically, I’m not even allowed to, you know,

11:30
still use the use the words in my in my promotions for stuff because I don’t even own the publishing to this. I don’t really own it. I own the copyright to it, but I don’t own the publishing to it. And every time this book gets a sale, I barely get anything from it. You know, it’s it’s so it’s not a very good economic model for me. But what I’ve learned over the years is that when you start to develop your own catalog and you own the masters, essentially to that every time you release a new work, your whole catalog gets a bump.

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release one book and if you have nine books that you published before that, every other book usually gets sales because people look through your whole catalog and buy stuff. And so my vision now is creating not just this individual book, this is the new one, but also developing merchandise around it, concerts around it, other products around it, digital things around it that support the philosophy of the book. And then also allow me to extend it into other books as well so that there’s an entire

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universe around it that I own the entirety of, rather than just trying to get a piece of royalty from what the publisher owns the majority of. Interesting. So if you were to start back all over again, would you have self-published your first book then or no? I wouldn’t have changed anything because I think everything has worked out the way it should. But I’m just a little bit smarter now. Right. And I guess that’s where the crypto stuff comes in too with your ecosystem later on. guess ownership.

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Yeah, I don’t even have a direct, I don’t even have the crypto piece of this planned yet. I’m sure we’ll do some NFTs and things like that. mean, right now, my main thing is I just opened up the pre-orders of the hardcover version for this book. The book drops in December and October 25th, but I just opened up a hardcover pre-sale and I’m only releasing 250 of these and they’re signed and limited and numbered and each one comes with two concert tickets. So I’m going to do two concerts in 2023, which will just be me.

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important pieces from the book, bringing in other elements, having a creative fun time with people just for my super fans. And you know, it’s 100 bucks each and people are like, why would I pay $100 for a book? Well, you’re paying for the experience. And it’s just a way of me creating something fun out of my material. And I have complete control over the distribution of it. Love it. Love it. Yeah. So I did get a chance to read a couple chapters. And I just had some questions for you. And I thought because it’s pretty interesting. Sure. I want to talk about

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like the slow boil of three, what the hell does that mean? Slow boil of 3D. Yeah. There’s a disconnect between the you thinking about something and it happening in life, but it doesn’t mean that there’s not progress going on underneath the surface. And some of that comes down to patience. And another part of it comes down to understanding how the nature of reality and how the nature of reality actually functions versus how we wish it would function. Sure. mean, a lot of people don’t make forward progress.

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I would imagine because of this principle. What’s the 3D part of it actually is what I wanted to know. Well, just being in this plane of existence, we exist in a world where it’s like a cause and effect world. There’s action reaction. You could think of it as a Newtonian situation or you could think of it as quantum, but either way, we live in a world where when you do something, there’s a change on the other end. Sometimes you see the change as a result of your actions.

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A lot of times you don’t see the change. Most of the time you don’t see the change. And what we have to realize is that the example that I give in this particular chapter is just that there is a boiling process. you think about like example of chemistry, physical sciences, when you boil water up to what, 100 degrees Celsius is where water boils. Every degree up to that point,

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is a chemical change that’s making a physical change. And through that entire process, you’re getting to the point of the result that you want, which is the water boiling, but you don’t see that bubble. You don’t see that actual boil, the effervescence until you get to the point where you’re at the boiling point and every liquid has different boiling point. But it doesn’t mean that the changes aren’t happening. And if you shut the burner off before that complete chemical and physical change has been created, then you lose all the progress.

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I think that we create that scenario for ourselves a lot in life where we’re stopping and starting, or we’re constantly checking to see if it’s boiling, constantly checking, letting out the heat. And there’s just a way of being aware that when you’re creating through your work, direct, intentional, you know, focus energy on a project or an idea that you have to allow it to create those changes. It’s like, you can’t just think Ferrari and the Ferrari rolls over your foot the next day. Like you have to be able to allow that thing to happen.

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And I think that in the hustle culture, we have forgotten that there’s an element of patience. And there’s also like a mystery of the way that things work, because there’s still this black box element of living in the world where we’d like to think that we know how everything’s working behind the scenes. And it makes our intellect feel good to think that we know, well, when I do this with my business, and I press this button, I do this funnel, this thing’s going to happen. But that’s not always the case. We’re hoping that’s the case.

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But we have to allow for that mystery and we have to allow for that space for the changes to happen. And then we can observe. that’s something that’s important for humans to remember.

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It’s taking me over three years, but my first book, The Family First Entrepreneur will be out in stores on May 16th. Now this is a book about entrepreneurship, but not the kind they tell you about in business school or that you often hear about online. Now I know for a fact that most of you listening to this podcast don’t want to become world famous or ridiculously rich. Now certainly you might not say no to these things, but when you really ask yourself what your priorities are, it’s almost always the same. You want a good life and the freedom to enjoy it. So in this book,

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I’ll share with you an alternative to the hustle culture nonsense we so often hear about in relation to starting a business. You can, in fact, succeed at business without being a stranger to your kids. You can make good money and have the freedom to enjoy it, and you don’t have to work 80 hours a week and be a slave to your business just to make it all work. So if you’re tired of hearing from 20-something kids who drive fancy cars and brag about how hard they work or how much they make, I will give you a different perspective from a father who makes both business and family work.

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So join me in my book launch. Go to mywifequitterjob.com slash book and I’ll send you bonuses, invitations to book parties that I’ll be throwing all over the country and special offers. That’s mywifequitterjob.com slash book. Now back to the show.

18:13
You know, what’s funny is I use that analogy, not the boiling water. I use the melting ice cube, which is, which is more or less the same thing. It’s the reverse. All your efforts are trying to melt the ice cube, but then it doesn’t start melting until the freezing point. Yeah. What’s funny about all this is how do you know how long it’s going to take? And, I get this question a lot, like how long is it going to take for my business to be successful?

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And they always ask me like, what is the secret to do all this stuff? And what I always tell them is like, half the time, like, I don’t know what the hell is going on. I just know in the end, it works. And then in hindsight, you can figure out some of the things that you’ve done. But as you’re doing it, oftentimes, you have no idea what’s working and what’s not. Totally. There’s also really defining what success is at each stage. Like I gave you an example today, was, I was doing like a weightlifting class before this, and I’m getting back into doing

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CrossFit style workout to turn more like Olympic style lifts. And have you ever tried an Olympic style lift before? I have not. Like, you know, they have snatches. Yeah. They have cleans and things like that. They’re pretty hard. And because it’s very technical. It’s like your body is doing these explosive motions. So I was talking to the coach today. I’m like pretty strong on certain lifts because I used to do like power lifting and bodybuilding. And so I have certain motor patterns. It’s really, like the muscles are strong, but it’s also, know, your motor patterns know how to do it. So that’s mostly what it is.

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So like, for instance, I can deadlift over 400, which is a lot for my body weight, but then with a, with a, um, with a clean or something, or with a, with a snatch, which were, which is where I’m like deadlifting up and putting it over my head. I can barely get like 150. It’s really, really heavy for me. And so was talking to the coach and I was like, what is the, what, like, what would be a good, what, what’s considered heavy with this lift for someone of my body weight? What is it? What are we looking for? What’s the goal here? And it’s like, well, you know, at this stage.

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It’s not really even a measure of your strength. It’s mostly a measure of technique because you’re not, um, you’re not even fully activating all the muscles that you will be using neurologically when you get proficient at this exercise, when you get very, very good at it. So I wouldn’t think of it as strength. I think of it as more of just getting your technique down and that got me thinking. It’s like, how am I measuring success here? Cause if I measure success based on my dead lift, then I think that this is a very weak lift. If I measure success based on the fact that

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I can actually complete all the movements of this lift, then I would say, well, that was a very successful lift. And just the way that you frame success versus failure changes how you feel about it. I was also thinking too, like when you’re doing these exercises, just from a physical, like an exercise perspective, failure is something that you seek out because you have to know where your limitation is. Like today I did, I went up to failure on snatches and I was like, oh yeah, like

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my failure point is at X weight, but I wasn’t upset that I failed. had to know that was my failure point. So I can judge next time. Did I hit it? Did I go past it? Did I fall below it? The failure just becomes a marker and a milestone rather than like an emotionally charged significant event. Yeah, I like that. I mean, there’s this phrase that I heard recently was your happiness is the status quo minus your expectations, right?

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So I guess in your so how would people who are struggling right now listening to this with their business? How do you set the proper failure points? And how do you how do you stay focused through that entire time until like the water starts boiling? Well, I would say the one thing is one of the things I think that in some ways personal development and business advice gets wrong is I this is a Tony Robbins thing, the idea of modeling.

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see a model your success off of other people who have been successful. But sometimes I find that that’s a poor heuristic for success because you’re comparing yourself to someone else. And I get why you’d want to do that because you’re looking to get the same results as them. But the mantra in the Tony Robbins school has always been, someone else has done it, you can do it. That’s, think, only partially true because you have to consider there are so many factors in someone else’s

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whole experience of life, who they are, where they’re born, what their background is, their mind state is, all these different factors that go into them creating a certain result. So if you’re trying to copy just what they’re doing, you can’t copy who they are. And so sometimes we, I think we sometimes miss the mark by trying to compare our success or our milestones or our markers to other people’s when really we need to, we can set our goals, set our attention for our goal. And we can even,

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look at best practices and follow a path to a point, but there has to be an awareness of at the end of the day, you’re going to have to do it your way, which means that you’re going to have to define success based on where you are now. If you’re just starting, then you wouldn’t judge your success based on someone who’s been doing it for a lot longer, for someone who has a different skill set, from someone who has a different life experience. You’d have to be able to

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have the presence of mind to say, okay, I’m going to follow some of these instructions, some of these rule books, but ultimately every success is a completely unique success. There’s no one who copies someone else and says, oh, you know, I did it just like them and I got the same result. even when I was first getting my teeth, cutting my teeth, you know, I was working with this guy named Ramit and Ramit runs this company called I will teach you to be rich. And so I learned a lot of copywriting from him and from his work.

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but I’m not Rameet, I don’t wanna be Rameet. And it was a detriment for me to try to fit too deeply into that mold because I would put myself into a model that wasn’t unique to me. So I was modeling my success after that and I was modeling my ideas after that. And there’s a certain point where you can take what you’ve learned and you can adapt it and you can adapt what someone else has done.

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But ultimately, you always have to create your own unique thing. And I think that’s something where beginning entrepreneurs go wrong. I think they’re going to completely be able to copy someone else or use someone else as a measuring stick when you really have to find it on your own. And that’s scary because ultimately there is no map and no one wants to hear that. You know, it’s funny is any time I’ve personally tried to copy someone else directly, it’s actually never worked for me. Never works. And in fact, I remember when I

24:48
when I was working my day job, I used to think that all of my bosses had all the answers until one day I figured out like everyone is just winging it. Yeah, actually. Yeah. And you just got to figure out the way you do it. I guess the next question, the follow up question is how do you figure out what what you’re good at, what your hidden strengths are to to make the necessary adaptations? The best way to do that is to think about the things that come naturally to you that do not come naturally to others.

25:15
or things that are fun for you that are certainly not fun for others. So there are a lot of people who are, like I have friends who are accountants and they really like numbers. And I say, what is wrong with you? Like you enjoy this? Why? But in a business, having a strong number sense and a strong accounting sense is a great skill to have. And you can lean into that. You can create a leaner business and a smarter business, a more efficient business. Whereas they would say, I hate writing. I hate it with a passion and I run from it. And I say, oh, this is my playground.

25:44
And so you have to lean into those strengths, but you also have to think about the things that are so natural to you that you take them for granted. And I wrote about this in the book as well, these gifts and these talents that you take for granted, these are the things, these are like the forgotten children. These are the things that we stuff in a corner and we don’t respect these talents because they seem so easy to us. And those are the things that you need to be paying attention to. And a lot of times they won’t be things that I’ve got, sometimes they’ll be things I’ve gotten praise. Other times there are things that maybe people have

26:14
have even ridiculed you for, but you have to be able to identify those. And some people don’t want to identify them their whole lives, you know? Give me some examples. Like, how do you figure this out? Okay. Because you’re not thinking of them clearly because you probably do them every day and don’t even realize you don’t like okay, and some of of it will come through a lot of trial and error. So it’s not like you just like I just meditated for 20 minutes and figured it out. You know, it will come through trial and error. So like I’ll give you an example in my life. I have learned over

26:41
Okay, first of all, I’ll say you can try some things that are like different personal assessments. So there’s lots of ways to look at yourself. So if you’ve heard of Myers-Briggs before, that’s an example. I don’t put too much stock into any personal assessment, but there are ways of knowing yourself. Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, there’s something called human design. These are all different ways. And if you study those things, you realize there is validity to some of these things. Getting off on a slight tangent, one of my clients gave me a bracelet.

27:11
because I said I was an ENTP. I battled between ENTJ and ENTP. Someone got me an ENTP bracelet. Literally, it had the letters ENTP and I thought, I’m not going to wear this because I’m not going to brand myself as a certain personality. I want to get myself licensed to change if I want. I want to be introverted if I want to be introverted that day. So I never think of them as cast in stone. Like my friend Manish, he thinks that’s cast in stone, baby. He’s like, ENTJs, that’s who you are. You’ll never change. I’m like, I don’t believe that.

27:41
Um, we’re talking about Manisha Ramees, brother. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Okay. The cooler Senti, the cooler. Um, and so, so you can learn, you can use personality tests to learn a bit about yourself. Um, but ultimately it comes down to looking how, looking at how your life experience goes and, and, and paying attention to who you are. So in my life, what I’ve realized is that like a few things, one,

28:10
I, my biggest, my greatest wealth is my, are my relationships. So like, I am good at business to a certain extent. Like I know how to do, I can do e-commerce and I’m decent with numbers and you know, I’m pretty good at branding. Like all that stuff I have a, a proficiency in, but where I really excel is in relationships. So there are tons of people who I can call to help me with something. I know how to connect people to get them to work together. I’m really good.

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at interpersonal stuff, know, interviews or talking on camera or things like that, things of that nature. Some of that’s come from skill training, others I can look back at my past, my childhood and say, I was doing this since I was a kid. You know, I was the kid who in fourth grade was eating a school lunch, decided I didn’t like it and set up a petition across the entire elementary school and got like 300 signatures and then took it to the principal’s Very interpersonal.

29:06
And I said, we demand, we don’t like these green hot dogs. They’re clearly spoiled. We don’t like them. And it’s just like things like that. I think back and said, oh, that’s a very highly, entirely indicative of someone who has interpersonal skills. Another thing too would be like, I’ve always been skilled at writing. I can look at my career as a student and say, my best grades and my most enjoyment has always been out of writing. And then it makes sense that when I,

29:35
graduated to my career, it started through writing. And I can say, okay, I should lean into that. For a while, when I was in that rich 20 phase, and I was just writing for the SEO and writing for the accolades, essentially, writing for that direct lead generation, I kind of got away from expressing the core skill. And even for a while, between like 2018 and 2020, like almost two years, almost maybe even three years,

30:03
I actively stopped writing. Like I didn’t open up my computer and write. didn’t publish anything new really. And I noticed that my business started to go down and my life happiness started to go down big time. Cause I wasn’t focusing on what my core gifts are. And it took a while to acknowledge that because I wanted to be like other people. I wanted to have, you know, skills I saw other people have. And thought, well, if I just had this funnel skill or if I just had, of course you can build these skills.

30:32
But if I just, if I could just do it like this person or that person, that’s when I’ll be successful. But I’m like, yeah, but they can’t do it like me. You know, I gotta be me. And it wasn’t until I really like was able to sit with that, that I was able to pull myself out of my own ass, pull my head on my own ass. And, also just become a lot happier, you know? Here’s the struggle. And I’ve had this too. How do you decide between doing something that works and is moving the legal, let’s say in business?

31:01
versus doing what actually makes you feel alive and creative. Why do they have to be separate? Oftentimes they do, in a way, right? Like my SEO example earlier, right? In order to rank in search, you have to write in such a way that there’s no fluff, you just deliver the answer, right? And that’s how you get traffic. Yes. As soon as you start being a little bit more creative, telling stories, that stuff’s probably not going to rank because you’re confusing Google. But that’s a great way to get traffic.

31:31
Well, it’s almost like, um, like I was writing a sales page. You ever seen this thing called the Hemingway app? You know about this? Yeah. It’s a pretty good app, but this app will tell you to make your shit so dumb. It will tell you to dumb it down. It’ll be like, Oh, this is too high level. The sentence is too long. This is too much of a college level. And I’m like, yeah, but that’s how I talk. And there’s a line between knowing how to make it simple for people, but also saying, I don’t have to who’s making up the Hemingway app. Who’s making up.

32:00
You know, it’s like you have to be able to not be afraid to lose a little bit in order to express yourself. That’s how I feel. And that hasn’t served me the best when it comes to business. So I know that that’s not the best advice if you want to maximize SEO, maximize lifetime value. I just don’t think there’s a better way to do it long-term because otherwise I’m going to hate doing this and not want to do it anyway. know, like even with this most recent book, one of the things that’s been frustrating for me is that

32:29
I don’t get as good of a response off of talking about

32:34
Carl Jung is I, as I do about starting a hundred thousand dollars side hustle, you know, and I know that and I my business around the hundred thousand dollars side hustle. So I understand why people they’re not there for that, but I’ve also been saying to my audience, said, guys, listen, I still do business programming and we can talk about that, but shouldn’t we all be evolving here? Shouldn’t we want to talk about new stuff? Like you can’t expect me to do this, the same shtick for my entire life. And I don’t expect you to do that too. I’ve gotten so much value from learning.

33:02
deeply about myself and it all trickles down to business. So let’s talk about some of that stuff too, because otherwise why are we doing this? You know, and I, it’s been frustrating to me because I’ll like write a post where I’m explaining the fabric of the universe and I’ll get like 32 likes and then I’ll put up a meme and I’ll get a thousand. I’m like, I fucking hate you guys. You know, I love you. Thank you for being here. And I fucking hate you because I know that you’re here because, and I tested, I know that you’re here because I put up a tons of likes and shares and engagement.

33:32
The next one I put up is like something from the deepest reservoir of my mind and my heart. And it will get like 20 likes. And I’m like, I know that you scrolled right past this. Wake up. is what I mean by the trade-offs, Daniel. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Okay. So my next question is, let’s say you’re doing something that you really love and being creative. Like, how do you stay focused until the water starts boiling? Or do you just know that at some point, all this stuff is going to resonate and all come together?

34:02
I don’t think you ever know that. The best thing I can say is we’re all going to die and how are you going to feel? Are you going to give a crap about your SEO on your deathbed? I don’t know. mean, I know you got to make money and everything, but I also just feel like, okay, when I look at the best… So a lot of times art and business are seen as separate, but that’s not always the case.

34:30
And I think that you can use your business skills intelligently to support yourself as a creative, you know? So you have like, like one of the things, one of the examples I’ll give is like recently I was in this bookstore, this is a bookstore in Portland called Powell’s, which is supposedly the biggest independent bookstore in the world. And I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were telling the truth because it’s freaking huge. I love it. I love it. It’s like brain orgasm. God, I love it. And I’ll go through that. And one of the things I love looking at is, um, I don’t know if you read, do you read

34:59
pleasure? you read anything with pleasure? do, yes. You’re one of the few these days. I read for pleasure a lot and even fiction, not just how-to books, but even fiction. And if you go to the science fiction or the fantasy section of a book, of a bookstore, what you’ll find is that a lot of these writers, have tons of books, dude. They have tons. Like, you know, I just mentioned George R.R. Martin earlier and all these different, you know, all these different sci-fi novelists, even Stephen King.

35:27
and they just produce so much work. And that tells me a couple of things. One, it really shows me the value of consistency over time because they’re just dropping, dropping, dropping, dropping, dropping. It also shows me that like they’re writing these books are so long, especially a lot of these fantasy and sci-fi books that obviously they have editors, but they’re not like…

35:52
They’re not thinking, oh, I just, should take this out. This doesn’t quite, this isn’t working. Like maybe some of that, but they’re releasing a lot of material and they’re not being as discerning. They’re not like trying to get the perfect book. They’re just releasing it. And it also shows me too, that the value of their work isn’t in one individual piece. It’s in the collection. It’s in the collection of their intellectual property, which I think also still applies in a business sense. Now they might not be the, the, the business minds that you would look to.

36:22
But what inspired me about, you know, looking through these sections of the bookstores, you see that there’s a lot of value in the consistent production of work over time. And you can’t always see that value with each individual release. And so I think it’s less about just hoping that it all works out in the end and just knowing that the snowball over time does gradually build. And once you’re kind of locked into what your genius is,

36:50
Then I think it’s less about worrying whether it’s going to be successful and more about pouring as much of your direct intention into that work as you can, because direct intention is like a prism. And when all the light goes into the prism, it creates a very strong and powerful force where you might not have, you you don’t, you’re not going to be Tim Ferriss. You don’t want to be Tim Ferriss and you’re not going to repeat what he did again. But you can see the direct intention of his work over time has created things that even he couldn’t have imagined.

37:19
But what has happened is his energy has created an entire universe of his own. And I think you can do that in your own way too. And so you have to have faith that the intention is what’s creating over time that value. And people will start to see your stuff. If what you’re doing sucks, if you’re not really playing in your zone of genius and you’re not being consistent with it, you can’t expect to see that success. But once you truly lock into it, I have no doubt that once I’m on book 10 of my self-released stuff, it’s going to be popping, baby.

37:48
But it just takes a minute to get to that point. Yeah. You know, one thing I always tell people who’ve sounded from my class is that you got to be willing to put at least three to five years commitment into this before you even get started. And then I also say when it comes to content, it’s like a stock that can only go up, right? Yeah. One piece people might not see, but over time, as you build your portfolio, one piece will resonate with someone and then word of mouth will spread. So it’s just a matter of keeping at it.

38:16
People, so another thing too is like going back to the, why aren’t you guys liking my stuff on social media? Cause I’m just having a little Kanye West moment this week. The people don’t have to necessarily engage with it to be retaining it. You know, even just this morning, I got someone from just one of my people who read myself for like almost 10 years from South Africa. And he wrote me like a multi-page email on these things that I had done that.

38:43
deeply affected him from like 2018. And I remember when you did this story where you would go up on your rooftop in LA and you would show the sun and you would talk about how we’re all coming from this great universal energy. And that really affected me. it’s done this, this, this, this, this in my life. And he might not have ever left a comment or engaged with that social media posts, but I was putting it out there. He was receiving it. So you never, that’s what I’m saying with the slow boil. Things are happening and there’s a cause and effect to everything, but you can’t always see it.

39:09
And just the interaction on social media, think is a poor barometer. I’m coaching myself right now. It’s a poor barometer of if it’s being received. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so what are the important questions you got to ask yourself then if you’re on the right track? Number one, does it feel good? Because if it doesn’t feel good, you’re not going to keep doing it. Number two, is it something that you can see doing for an extended period of time?

39:36
Um, because I think that you have to be able to change with the times, grow and evolve. Uh, number three. And obviously you want to have, I will prioritize audience response over algorithmic response. So what I mean by that is like, if you put out a piece of content on any platform, it’s not necessarily as important how many people engage with it as the people who do do engage with it, what they’re saying. Um, to a certain extent, you can’t control.

40:05
how many people are exposed to your work because the platforms have their own design. And you can learn how to play with those designs so that you can have a better chance of going viral, better chance of spreading. But that’s a different skillset than having it resonate. Because you can have something that goes viral but doesn’t really create a strong relationship with the audience. And you can have something that creates a strong relationship but that doesn’t actually spread. And I would go for the relationship over the spreading because, I mean, TikTok is a great example.

40:34
platform is built for virality, but it’s not really built for relationship. can make relationship out of it, but it’s not built for that. Whereas I feel like our earlier forms of social media were built more for relationship than virality because virality wasn’t as big of a thing then. So you’ll have like an email list, which is not going to go viral necessarily because emails don’t really go viral like that, but it will create a deeper relationship or a podcast. Podcasts don’t really go viral. can. Um, it’s kind of more of a steady, steady build. So that I would prioritize.

41:03
the engagement with the people who do care about your work. And when I talked to Seth Godin about this years ago, because I had a peace goal viral for the first time in 2012. And I emailed Seth, I was like, Seth, how do I do this again? Like, how do I make it happen again? said, no, no, no, young grasshopper, you’re asking the wrong question. The question you want to ask is how do you write something so impactful that a person who reads it can’t go to sleep tonight without telling at least one other person? And that to me was like the aha moment. I’m like, oh, I just have to write it like I’m talking to a friend.

41:30
or produce like I’m talking to friends, speak on the video like I’m talking to a friend. And if someone gets that message, then they’ll do the work for me of making it go wherever it needs to go. I don’t need to try to game it. Right. Here’s been my philosophy because I kind of started out this interview by asking you how you kind of balance the two things. And it sounds like, you know, your priorities are what you said. For me, it’s like you have to go algorithmic in order to even get the your ideas out in front of people. But

41:58
I’ve decided that SEO is just not a good way to build like a lasting audience. People just want answers, right? But if you can get them on your email list, that’s when you can get actually more creative with your work. And then I mentioned YouTube as another outlet and the podcast as well. So I tend to play in both pots. So looking at the priorities that you just specified, I think I would have an equal balance between algorithmic versus people’s responses because if they don’t, if they’re not going to see in the first place, they’re not going to get a chance to respond. Yeah.

42:28
Well, and I would also say, uh, find your game and play it well. So like you might find someone like, uh, you know, James clear and he’s been very good at, um, creating both visibility and relationship with his audience over the years. James, his original strategy, I don’t know what it is now, but his original strategy wasn’t as much SEO as it was syndication. It was like getting his pieces on different platforms. He was like the master of that. And so I guess that is SEO, but it’s like SEO on other people’s platforms. And, um,

42:57
That’s more relationships, I would say. That is relationships though. Whenever I publish something on Entrepreneur or Fortune or Forbes, they’d always be like, you can’t publish your exact same piece. I’m like, James Clear just did it. He just published his exact same piece. What’s the difference? They said, well, he’s bald and he looks better. said, okay. So I don’t know. But that’s an example of, I don’t really see James as writing for the algorithm. I see him as writing exactly what he wants to write. But he has a strategy for visibility.

43:26
So yeah, you can, like for me, you my strategy with the, for visibility right now, I already have the benefit of having built an audience. It’s not the world’s biggest audience, but it is an audience. So I’m less concerned with trying to get more people right now. I want to just develop the relationship with the ones that I have on a deeper level. And over the next 10 years, I’ll continue to work on bringing more people in. my hope for this,

43:53
Maybe it’s a hope and a prayer, but my hope for this is that as I continue to put out more books, it will start to do some of its own work, you know, because I, man, like I started up a TikTok and I just can’t, like, I just can’t. I can’t, I mean, I’m going to, but I’m an older millennial now. I’m not a Gen Z and I just, I’ve already built my platform and I know it sounds stubborn and maybe I’m sounding old right now, but I can’t do it again.

44:22
can’t put up another channel right now. It’s just the amount of effort it takes. And I’m glad effort, you know, maybe I’ll have to do it anyway. Well, let me ask you this. If your goal is to get the ideas out, why are you selling this book and not just putting all this stuff out to the masses? I am actually. when the book drops on October 25th, it’s going to be completely free for digital and audio versions. Okay. I’m just doing the limited edition pre-order of the hardcover. And I actually have a whole sequence, which I’ll even share with you. have

44:52
The so the book is dropping officially on October 25th and we’ll put out like the digital version and the audio. I’m even going to put the audio on like Spotify. I’m going to make it its own podcast and iTunes. You can access it digitally. And then in November, we’re going to do a like a, like a fall collection of merch line related to concepts in the book, imagery and words from the book, which is going to be like sweaters, jackets and different pieces of clothing related to the line. It’s going to be our fall line. When December comes around, we’ll do the official Amazon drop. So it’ll be like,

45:23
Kindle, ebook, the paperback and the audible. And guess what? People are still gonna buy the audible even though it’s on Spotify, because people want it on whatever platform they like it on. so we’ll do that. In January, we’re going to do the digital course version of the book, which is me teaching concepts from the book. In February, we’re gonna do the extended artwork version of the book. So we’re gonna do like a coffee table size version of the book.

45:50
with all AI generated artwork and a different layout for the text, but a bigger version of it, all hardcover. February, we’re gonna do, I think I have planned the spring collection is gonna launch in February. So I think that’s what I have, spring collection for the merchandise. And then March and April, I’m gonna be doing the pre-launch essentially for, or I’ll do like another book preview for the next book in the series, which is called OverSoul. And that will come out in May. And it will be part of the true artifact series.

46:18
So every time I put out a book of this type of genre, will be in the series. And then when you go to Amazon and say, oh, there’s this book and there’s that book. And then there’s merchandise for it and there’s a course for it. And by the time there’s five of these shits out, it’s all, you know, there’s a whole series of it. Right. And I’m sure Amazon will have this button that says buy it all together. Yeah. Even on Amazon now you can create series and I’ll tell you, this is the first book. I did my first book was traditionally published. So I didn’t really have any creative control over it. I couldn’t even.

46:48
They didn’t even pick the cover that I wanted. mean, if you guys can see it, this is the Empire State Building. I’m not from New York and I have no connection to New York. And I said, guys, I don’t want this. don’t, this is not what I’m choosing. They’re like, yeah, but we know what’s going to sell well at Barnes and Noble. So you’re getting this cover. said, great, fuck off. So that happened. And then I did a second book. really, actually have a second book that’s out. This is, this is actually just, I can’t there’s more of a product, but it is a book. I coauthored this with my business partner. This is a,

47:16
strength of seduction, is our fitness brand. We did a book, it’s actually a really nice book. And this is like a book for couples to create intimacy through fitness. so like couples intimacy, exercises, physical stuff. And we actually published this through scribe, which used to be called book in a box. Oh, yeah. Tucker Max is, yeah, actually no longer is affiliated with them. But I did not know that. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. And so we so we paid and got God bless and they did a great job with it. They they pretty much handled it.

47:46
So we technically self-published that and I think we paid like, so, okay, I’ll tell you the numbers. So for my first book deal, I got all in 165 K. was 150 from Penguin and 15 K from Audible to do the book, which like, it sounds kind of like a lot, but it’s not really cause they broke it up over two years. goes to your agent also. 15 % of the agent. And they didn’t do any of the marketing work for me. It’s like, I came in there with the platform already myself and they’re like, great.

48:16
go market it. I’m like, can you help me? Can you get me some stuff? Like, I know that my agent has the same. I know that my agent shares a bunch of different famous clients. Can you get me on Trevor Noah? I know he’s on your roster. Like, what can you do for me? You know, but like, we gave you money, go promote it. I’m like, you should be, that’s for me to, to, produce the work. You guys should be paying to promote this. You guys should be helping me to get it out there. Wasn’t that much of a help. Yeah. So then we did the second book. This is like a 2020, we published this and we did this with Scribe. And I think we paid like,

48:46
40 grand for them to compile it. And they did a great job because I had this book, started writing this. This is like this company, which is a totally different conversation. I came up with this idea for this company in 2010. So it’s an old idea and we refreshed it and we actually did very well with it. We now have like over 42,000 customers and books and we sell DVDs, surprise names, sell DVDs and app and all this stuff. And so we put out this book and I had maybe like 15,000 words of this book already compiled.

49:15
So then Scribe brought in another writer and then we did illustrations. They organized, they put all together. couldn’t have done it without them because I wasn’t going to, it was way too much work to do it myself, but still 40 grand is kind of steep. And I was happy with the product, but then now this is the first book I’ve done where it’s completely on my own. I did the whole design myself. did the whole, I did, I did the editing myself. had some, had a trusted friend to help me with the copy edit, but you know, design, edit.

49:42
production, everything from the interior design to the exterior, to the layout of the pages, all that stuff myself. And I realized it’s not actually that hard to do. It only cost me like, man, it cost me like 1500 bucks to produce and design and publish this whole, not like less than two grand, two grand or less. And I’m like, wow, that was really cost effective. And now, and it’s like, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but Amazon’s hard covers are.

50:11
Oh yeah, I know, know. I mean, I think they used to be crappier, but this is nice. Cause you know, I have a book from a publishing house that is supposed to be the best in the world. And I’m like, this one’s nicer. So I’m a little confused. And, um, and so now I kind of see what the whole process is. And, uh, and that’s allowed me to have a lot more confidence in my ability to be able to produce it as a high level consistently now. Cause I thought I needed all this help. I thought I needed a publisher. I thought I needed a scribe. I thought I needed this stuff. like, no, no, no, no, no.

50:40
I can do it all. And that’s been like a huge weight off my shoulders. mean, having gone through this entire process recently, I think the main advantage of having a publisher is, that you can get into the bookstore easier, right? But then again, there aren’t that many bookstores anymore. So and that then that makes me very sad as an author. But at the end of the day, I don’t actually think book sales are down. I just think it’s retail bookstores. Yes, think book sales are still doing quite well. And Amazon is just Amazon such an a hole, like they’ll kill

51:10
Barnes and Noble and they put their own bookstores in place of that. And it’s like, Ooh, that’s such a harsh move. But they have nice bookstores. Um, but yeah, I mean, so, so yes, you can get into bookstores earlier, easier. And for the most part, you’re not really going to be able to get on the bestseller lists without having a publisher. But again, it’s like, what’s your metric of success? Because when you have a major book that’s being published, they really are pushing for first week numbers so that they can show.

51:38
from their side that our book has been successful. So for this first book, Rich 20, you know, we put all of our energy into that first week, you know, the lead up before that. And I missed New York times bestseller by one spot. Like we had number, we got number 11 and before, before that year it was top 15. And then the year that I published, was top 10. So then I hit number 11. You know, man, there were things I could have done to.

52:04
Like I was mad at myself for years about like, knew there’s one call I could have made or like one thing I was lazy with and I could have pushed it through. But ultimately that, that ranking, which would have been the equivalent of a sticker on the cover of the book, would it have made a diff, a material difference in anything about where I am now? It would have been nice to say that, but it wouldn’t have made a material difference. And, um, and, and my metric of success was like, what list am I getting? How high am I on Amazon? Uh, you know, but, but now I’m like,

52:32
I don’t really care what my first week numbers are. I’m giving it away for free and I’m selling some, some stuff and I have a whole extended plan and I have a whole, I just told you about a plan all the way through next year. I look at it more like, um, like when an artist releases an album, when they go on tour, they’re on tour for sometimes two years promoting that album, you know, so I have to look at it like that. And so that’s another way of how I’ve changed my metric of success. If people come in and say, well, you know, I got to hit these numbers and you know, I got to hit New York times, best seller, wall street journal. And it’s like,

53:00
that’s someone else’s ranking for your, and also by the way, plenty of people get book ranking the first week and it just drops the next week. So, it’s like, it’s not necessarily the best metric. But it’s a ego metric. It’s a good ego metric and my ego was hurt because I didn’t get it. But I think it’s okay, it wouldn’t have changed my life position now.

53:29
So Daniel, where can people find out more about your book? Well, that’s a great question. See if you can go to the true artifact dot com. This is right now where you can find the preview of the book because the official drop is on 10, 25, 22. When that book releases, you’ll be able to get it for free via my website and via Spotify, Spotify, iTunes, and wherever podcasts are streamed. I’m going to put it out as independent podcast. And on that list, you can sign up for the preview, the promo. And then once you sign up,

53:57
You’ll get access to the whole world of the true artifact, which will be all the things we’re talking about from the different pieces of the IP I’m releasing to things that only VIPs and insiders are going to get. There’s also an account on Instagram at the true artifact. And it’s just the, uh, it’s just the first piece of this puzzle. And I’m not going to let myself go off this podcast without reading a piece from the book. Go for it. I’m going to end because it’s you. And by the way, just so everyone knows this verifies what I was thinking about relationships and

54:27
also probably data. Because the reason you texted me was because I sent out a mass text. That’s true. I sent out a mass text and I almost never push that button. Usually I don’t send out because there’s like a segment. I try not to text my friends with it because I the problem, the thing here is the thing. I accidentally imported my personal phone numbers into my marketing system and I can’t take them all out. So I’ve had to segment my audience versus my friends and people that I know from like business development. And

54:56
But for this, was like, fuck it. I’m just texting everyone. And so this is what came out of that. But I’m going to read you a piece. because you were the first person to respond for immediate appearance from this book, I am going to read you my favorite piece from this book. Sweet. This is called The Gradient of Now. The world moves in a continuous gradient that humans have to break into discrete units to measure.

55:25
But there are no specific points in time or space. There are no specific colors. There are no specific people. We use minutes to break down the endless flow of time into neat little building blocks so that our brains can decipher them. Time’s true form is shaped more like a psychic Mobius strip than a continuous line from the past to the future. The past and the future are interwoven

55:53
and in constant relationship to each other, creating one infinite edge that folds back onto itself. For an event to have happened in the past, it would have needed to occur at a discrete time. But the more you examine time, the more it slips through your fingers like sand. St. Augustine said, I know what time is, but when you ask me, I don’t. Every moment only exists in relation to other moments. We use personal and collective history to create mental hooks

56:23
that compress the vast calculus of time into a manageable file. When exactly does a moment in time begin or end? Is a child born the moment she leaves the birth canal and is breathing oxygen on our side of the womb? Is she born when the sperm fertilizes the egg or when the cells of the egg are created? Maybe she’s born at the exact moment that her father and mother are born because without those events, her existence would be impossible.

56:51
Or was she born when the first single-celled organism finally became multicellular and its ancestor crawled out of the sea? The more closely you look at time, the more you notice there’s nothing to see. There are no boundaries around when events start and stop. There are no discrete units to measure a moment, only a continuous flow in causation of itself. There is only now and now and now.

57:19
The more you look at matter, the more you realize it is not solid. The body we experience as hard and dense is actually more air than land. We’re completely porous on a microscopic level, constituted of trillions of cells surrounded by constellations of empty space. Inside each nucleus, even more particles vibrating with cellular energy. You extend to infinity in both directions. There is no difference between you and the room you are

57:48
Your cells create a field of electrical energy which touches and interacts with everything around you, including other people. There is no separation between anything or anybody. There was only the gradient of infinite change from one moment to the next. Last night, I watched the sky flex and bloom in the mountains of Santa Monica. The sun pulsed an infinite bouquet of colors for two hours as it set over the valley. Every instant, a different color.

58:18
Deep crimson to brilliant blue and green. Every shade, every moment, a barely perceptible variation of the one just a second before. I wonder if our lives are much like the pulsing colors over the night sky. Every moment, no separation, only a gradient of experiences. Only now and now and now. It’s like poetry, It is. You are a great writer. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

58:46
And thank you for that. Thank you for that reading the custom reading. I assume you’re going to be narrating your own audiobook. Oh, yeah, no, I’m gonna get some I’m gonna get some British guy off fiber to do. You know, so weird. It’s like Joe dispenser has an Australian guy do his, his audible work. And I’m like, this doesn’t work. If you know what his voice sounds like, it’s totally throwing me off. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Daniel. Hey, man. Appreciate you coming back on the show. It’s been a while. Thanks to you. been my pleasure.

59:16
Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now I love Daniel’s writing and you should definitely check out his book which is actually out right now. For more information about this episode, go to mywebquitterjob.com slash episode 441. And once again, I want to thank Postscript, which is my SMS marketing platform of choice for e-commerce. With a few clicks of a button, you can easily segment and send targeted text messages to your client base. SMS is next big own marketing platform and you can sign up for free over at postscript.io slash d.

59:43
That’s P-O-S-T-S-U-I-P-T dot I-O slash Steve. I also want to hang out with you in person this year in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. So grab a ticket to Seller Summit and let’s meet up. Go to SellerSummit.com. That’s S-E-L-L-E-R-S-S-U-M-M-I-T dot com. Now I talk about how I use these tools on my blog. And if you are interested in starting your own eCommerce store, head on over to mywifequitterjob.com and sign up for my free six day mini course. Just type in your email and I’ll send you the course right away. Thanks for listening.