Today I’m happy to have Moody Nashawaty on the show. Moody is someone who helped me with my Facebook ads for my ecommerce store a while back.
He is the chief strategy officer for MuteSix.com which is a firm that specializes in customer acquisition. They do Facebook ads, Google ads, email marketing, you name it. And they recently sold their company for a large sum of money.
Moody is an advertising master and today he’s going to teach us how to create ads that convert for physical products.
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What You’ll Learn
- The components of a high converting creative
- Moody’s process for effective ads
- How to sell boring products with Facebook ads
- The types of ad creatives that work
Other Resources And Books
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But before we begin, I want to give a quick shout-out to Klaviyo who is a sponsor of the show now, it’s safe to say that most of us have been I’m doing a lot more online shopping lately. If you’re an e-commerce brand, that means you might be seeing more first time customers. But once they made that first purchase, how do you keep them coming back? That’s what Klaviyo is for. Klaviyo is the ultimate email and SMS marketing platform for e-commerce Brands and they give you the tools to build your contact list. Send memorable emails automate key messages and more, way way more. And that’s why more than 30,000 e-commerce Brands like Chubbies, Brooklyn and living proof use Klaviyo to build a following. Strong customer relationships mean more repeat sales enthusiastic word of mouth and less depending on third-party ads. So whether you’re launching a new business or taking your brand to the next level Klaviyo can help you get growing faster and it’s free to get started. So visit Klaviyo.com/mywife to create your free account. That’s KLAVIYO.com/mywife. Now on to the show.
Intro: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. We will teach you how to create a business that suits your lifestyle. So you can spend more time with your family and focus on doing the things that you love. Here’s your host Steve Chou.
Steve: Welcome to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast. Today, I’m happy to have Moody Nashawaty on the show. Now Moody is actually someone who helped me with my Facebook ads for my e-commerce store a while back. He is the chief strategy officer for MuteSix.com, which is a firm that specializes in customer acquisition. They do Facebook ads, Google ads, email marketing you name it and they recently sold their company for a large sum of money. Now, I recently met Moody for the first time in person in my buddy Nick Shackleford’s live event down in LA. And what’s funny is that I didn’t know the guy was famous until random people at Nick’s events certain randomly shaking hands with the guy and patting him on the back
Anyway, Moody is a master of AD creatives. So today we are going to talk about how to create ads that convert for selling physical products online. And with that, welcome to show Moody. How you doing today, man?
Moody: Hey Steve, glad to be on the show.
Steve: Honor to have such a famous person in the ad space on the show.
Moody: I didn’t I didn’t know I was famous either until I was walking around that event and people like hey, I know you are and I’m like what so I don’t know. Maybe this is my like launch party and it
Steve: Maybe it is maybe it is. You’re gonna you’re gonna be much more famous after this podcast. Let me tell you so. So give us the quick background story. Tell us how you got started with just Facebook ads in general and how did you hook up with Steve at MuteSix.
Moody: Yeah. It’s so funny. You know, it’s Steve. I actually met him in a Facebook group. He was looking for media buyers about four years ago in the big Facebook media buyers group the ad buys group run by Tim Bird and I just replied to his post and then we chatted. We’re both in LA and we got lunch, but my experience with Facebook ads got started a lot earlier than that. I started running ads on Facebook in probably 2011-2012 doing a lot of really large light campaigns for the big Brands. This is before you had any sort of like link ads. And in the first type of Link add you actually had was in the right hand rail, do remember that?
Steve: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Moody: Yeah. So we’re doing light campaigns for you know, big big Brands like Walmart and Tropicana and all sorts of things and we’re you know, we’re spending millions of dollars generating likes for an agency called Shift which then turned got bought out by brand networks. And so, you know, it started all right there for me, you know, and it quickly turned into like okay like this Okay, and this is interesting and you know selling likes is a fun thing, but you know, I quickly wanted to learn how do you actually make businesses scale using Facebook ads and specifically the ability to target so efficiently and in the platform.
So I found Steve actually I spent a little bit more time at a more of a PR Agency and then I found Steve in 2015 or so and then you know, it was it was You know building MuteSix since that.
Steve: All right, Yeah, so cool. So you met up with mutesix and you you helped Steve basically grow that company to where it is today, right?
Moody: Yeah. So I joined in as number 9 today. We’re about 210 people. What we wanted to do is we just wanted to help businesses scale. So we’ve got about I think three almost 300 Shopify stores that we help and consult and we’re an agency right? So we’re helping these brands. Mostly with paid media a lot of its Facebook do other things we do Google, YouTube little bit of Amazon got a whole email team and then we’ve got a whole creative armed designed just to build creative that convert for our different a department. So.
Steve: You guys specialize in physical products, right?
Moody: Hundred percent e-commerce.
Steve: So let me ask you this. I’m sure you get a lot of people applying for your agency do tend to turn away people who have just kind of Boring mundane products or do you just kind of make it work?
Moody: Yeah, you know if it’s e-commerce, you know, there’s there’s a couple of things that we look for. We’re not turning around turning away everybody where you know, we look for potential, you know, there’s a enough AOV if there’s you know something that’s you know, there’s some sort of charm or spark to the to the product then you know, we want to do it, we don’t like Commodities like something that you just tend to buy on Amazon tends to not work specially if it’s like a lower price point.
Moody: But if it’s you know It’s a well branded product or it has the potential to be or if it’s a highly demonstratable product. Those are things that you know, you can get in front of people, you know, ads some salesmanship in a creative and actually make work.
Steve: So what is AOV size, what is AOV need to be typically to make things work?
Moody: For so if it’s gotten AOV of at least 30, 40 bucks
Moody: You know, that’s the bare minimum and then if it’s like, you know, if it’s something that has like maybe a lower AOV but has an LTV. So lifetime value of actually being a lot larger than that’s not a that’s not a big Point. That’s that’s something that we look at too. Because I mean if you can really whoever wins in this game is the person who can spend the most money to acquire user, right? So if the LTV is, you know through the roof or forever lasting then that person can spend, you know, business can spend as much money as they want to acquire a customer.
Steve: Right, and then in terms of margins, are there any guidelines that you have also as well?
Moody: Yeah, I mean it depends, you know, if you’re doing, you’ve got a $40 product or margin should be around 10 to 12 to 15 bucks max. But otherwise, you should be pricing your you know, you should really be pricing higher.
Moody: So we do work on pricing too like there’s some there’s times where we get brands that come in the door and we’re like hey like your pricing too high or pricing too low or no, how can we how can we work out the product economics to be more feasible for what we’re trying to do here.
Steve: Okay. So Moody, what I was hoping to do today is kind of get a framework from you and kind of like your process for coming up with creatives that convert for a typical physical product. I mean we can use one of the examples that you’ve already used in the past, but I was just hoping you could walk us through the process. So first off, where do you begin when it comes to the creative which arguably is the most important part of the ad, right?
Moody: Right. I mean it’s so even Facebook’s come out and said that in the algorithm the thing that matters the most is the creative and it’s about 60% of the essentially the efficiency of where you’re going to get your CPA down and actually get performance. So for us, you know, we like to so when it comes to creative the biggest factor in all of this starts with the hook and you know, I mean look at the end of the day And we measure the hook in the how effective It Is by basically taking three second View and dividing it by impression and that’s basically our hook through rate or you can call thumb stop rate.
And that’s basically going to tell you how many people are stopping on your ad as soon as they get to it in the news feed. And what that does is if you’ve got a hook a basically a thumbs stop rate of thirty percent or higher then that’s effectively good and you’re getting people to actually consume your content for at least three seconds.
Steve: So you mentioned three seconds. So that implies it’s a video creative. Do you recommend starting with video creatives or do images work as well?
Moody: Yeah, I guess images and video, you know, we have been, videos’ just something that I think every brand absolutely needs to have anyone running ads needs to have video. You can get a we can get very far with static. You can’t get this type of scale you can get with video just because basically you’re bringing the salesmanship into the news feed right? You’re actually Allowing people to absorbency without having to jump onto your site right there in a familiar territory of the Native platform, whether that’s Facebook Instagram or any of these other social platforms.
So video is a place where people can really get to understand who you guys are as a brand without having to you know, dive deeper into your brand and into unfamiliar territory, which is your website and whatever that works out, right?
Steve: So just to kind of clarify what you just said about the thumb stop rate. So you’re looking at the number of Impressions and then you’re looking for the number of 3-second video views and you divide the two and you’re trying to get 30%?
Steve: Okay. And so that’s your guideline for a good high quality creative?
Moody: Hook is number one and then you know, if we were to back up again and just talk like fundamentals, you’ve gotta start with understanding, you know, what are the unique selling propositions of your of your brand and you know, we’d spend a lot of the time actually doing research and looking at competitors and looking at we’ve got we basically have a framework of what ads what convert what they look like. We got a bunch of templates and frameworks, things we apply to each brand that comes to the door that tend to work. But you know, if I were going to start this from scratch, I’d back up I’d say, okay, like what is my brand, you know and we can maybe come up with an example, you know, their gun is one of our brands that
Steve: What would you say is like the most mundane product you’ve ever had to write creative for like there again is kind of unique right?
Moody: It’s it wasn’t always unique. I mean, I think we got it to this point, but but I think that’s fair. Let’s see. I mean we could I mean Thinoptics is an interesting one.
Steve: Okay. Yeah, let’s go with that one
Moody: only because you brought it up earlier.
Moody: That’s on the top of my mind.
Steve: But like do you have you ever sold like sheets or hats or articles of clothing?
Moody: Yeah, we’ve done so we do a lot. We do a lot of so there’s two categories right? There’s it’s either like a Lifestyle brand of some sort or Brand of commodity or its demonstratable products kind of like Thinoptics, Awaord or.
Steve: Let’s do a brandable commodity actually
Moody: Yeah, so like we do apparel, shoes, you know, you know shirts, hoodies, jackets, whatever you name it swimwear, we get we have a lot of those and so like if we were going to do like a like a brand-new commodity, let’s say like an apparel brand, you know, once specifically that comes to mind is butter cloth and they were on Shark Tank recently. They have these really cool dress shirts where they’re made out of long fiber cotton, which is like similar cotton you might see in like Egyptian sheets and you know, so with them it’s interesting because if you guys look at the if you look at you, look at some of the ads were running now a lot of it has to do with their you know in this is a little bit unfair because they’re on Shark Tank, but it’s actually a lot of their actual video from Shark Tank.
You know now we have Robert Herjavec in the mix, but it didn’t start out that way they came to us. They had zero dollars, name fact wanted a partner that could be much more than just Marketing agency. They wanted a website built, you know, they wanted full, you know, basically full hands on everything digital and the Daniel Tran is like The Mastermind behind butter cloth the actual piece of clothing. I mean, he’s got a history of actually making the goods right like he used to work for Mattel making Barbie dresses who worked for affliction making shirts and jackets. He was the expert at making amazing. That’s a get shirt. It’s now because this is what he wanted to do. And he took that and he’s like I know nothing about digital.
I know nothing about Shopify or any at, you know, running e-commerce site and he came to us literally with a prototype and put it on our table and said this is what I have. What can you guys do and we’re like, okay like how much does it cost? Well cost x amount to make shirt we’re selling it for a hundred and ten probably getting four times five times on margins there. And then essentially, what’s we looked at it and you’re like, okay, like how do we sell this online? How do we sell this with Facebook ads? It’s a really nice dress shirt. It’s got a couple really good qualities.
First of all, it’s a hundred percent cotton and really good cotton. It’s demonstratable to this sense that it’s like stretchy has a really nice space, breathable, you know, if you looked at the some of the shirts, they’ve got really nice designs on them. The collars are certain design and essentially like, you know, we didn’t we didn’t know where to Start other than to kind of lean into the USPs. It’s like okay like it people what do people want on a dress shirts. They want it to fit right a hundred percent. They want it to look good. So like that. Those are two things that use absolutely have to have they don’t want it to wrinkle. They want it to feel and feel like it’s high quality, you know in our case here like the softness comfortability ability the ability for it to be active.
The fact that it doesn’t necessarily like stretch out over time. I’m if you wear it a few times, right, you know, potentially you’d also want to be able to wash it without having to take it to the dry cleaner cleaning. So you want a little bit of durability and these are all factors that we honed in on when it came to selling the shirt. Now, We got a little bit lucky Metta World Peace walked into. Like this is just random, but he just comes into our door 2017. It was like right before Black Friday like a week before Black Friday and He’s got a brand called the panda’s friend, which is just sell shirts with pandas on them and he’s really cool dude. And actually, you know, off-topic we spent like an hour like going through and teaching him Google analytics one day because he’s absolutely wants to learn everything.
Like I don’t know if you know like if you if you haven’t spent a little time looking at what Metta World Peace is doing now, it’s actually fascinating building apps. He’s doing all these things and charity. It’s
Steve: I had no idea. Okay.
Moody: It’s amazing. We can spend an hour talking just about that. We won’t, he walk through a door a week before Black Friday and he’s like hey, I’ve got this brand with you guys work when you guys do it that like I can’t do anything. It’s literally a week before Black Friday. You came to me a month ago. Like I can’t ramp up you this fast, but I do have this brand butter cloth with they just launched a few weeks ago. And you know, you just have to put the shirt on cause it’s amazing. So I literally threw a shirt at him and never met him once before in my life and I was like dude try this on and he’s looking at me like what are you doing? Okay, he takes off his shirt. He puts the butter cloth shirt on I grab my phone I recorded and like what do you think? He’s like, wow, it’s amazing. It’s breathable. It’s comfortable it fits I can stretch in it.
Look at like it’s all of it all of these things and I took the video and I sent it off to the butter cloth team and they just fell in love. They’ve been like his fans for a long time. You know, there really is some
Steve: But that doesn’t sound fair Moody. I mean you’re getting a celebrity
Moody: I know so
Steve: I mean you have another example so we can take that example, but so you all the value props you just mentioned. What was the hook the value proposition is just the hook right?
Moody: Right. So here’s here’s what we figured out with men’s shirts. Is that a lot of there’s a lot of men out there who actually get their clothes or their shopping is done by the ladies in their life. So their girlfriends, their wives, you know, something we lean on in our advertising from butter cloth is we are, you know, probably 30 40 percent female its women who are buying for their men, but the hooks for butter cloth are so it’s one is I think in the terms of priority of like what matters for this brand fit and look is really important. So getting just, you know, going out and getting really good lifestyle shots of butter cloth, even like really Crisp and Studio shots. You’ll see just carousels in this is static, right?
This isn’t even that much video but static images of really good looking people wearing shirts the good fit so, you know people can start and you know, one of the key things about, you know selling shirts to men is they know they never want to see their faces are the only they don’t want to see the faces of the models. They just want to see the shirts. So your data cut off heads office. Yeah. I didn’t know if you knew that but
Steve: I did not how did you figure that out? Just testing?
Moody: it’s a it’s a key learning you’ll start to see it now that you know it if you look at almost every single male e-commerce brand that sells apparel. There’s no you’ll never see faces of models. If you do it’s usually like lifestyle stuff or just people looking away but it’s never like they’re up the camera as much especially in the like when you’re on product pages and you’re on you know, when you’re when you’re looking through actual actual like product shots of images.
Steve: Mmm-hmm. if it’s not true for women’s clothing though.
Moody: No, I think it’s mixed. It’s a mixed bag with women.
Steve: Okay, sorry. Okay, so the hook. Is just the fit.
Moody: So starting with fit that combination of things it’s definitely fit and look like people have to like what they’re buying like obviously but then what we did is we tested a lot of video of like people stretching and like moving in Mobility. So you get to see a lot of that sort of Hook was like, hey, it’s the most comfortable shirt ever like never met a shirt like this that kind of thing and we were just showing people moving. You know actually, you know this kind of zooming in on the stretch happening and then we call out a lot of the details like, you know, the really cool and detailed collars and you know, even like the risk collars that that kind of thing.
So you get a lot of quick movement there. We also you know kind of approach it from a Persona types of like now we have a lot of ads running to people who travel like. Hey, like what if you could travel In this shirt, it’s so comfortable. It’s like the ones that you need while you travel, you know, we do a lot of promotional like so like Valentine’s Day was really big for us just the gift that you know, your husband will never forget that kind of thing. Now, we’ve got a lot of like again footage of I guess a couple celebrities that we rotate into the mix. But yeah, that’s kind of
Steve: So when you’re targeting then are you just targeting females then with these ads?
Moody: With that, let’s specifically the gifting. Yes.
Moody: Yeah tends to be specifically for that but not for everything else for everything else. It’s mixed. It’s probably 50/50.
Steve: So when you’re deciding on the audience for these, what do you have any guidelines there? So it depends where you are, right? There’s like different phases that you might go through as a brand and you’re targeting like if you’re just getting started you’re trying to find who your buyer is and trying to you know, you just test a lot of different audiences that make sense to your brand. I mean you try to get a little bit more Niche with your and narrow with your range of people you might Target, you know, bucket sizes of one to two million as you get into scale, you know, Facebook the Facebook algorithm is smarter than And we can never be when it comes to audience testing.
So we’re we actually move into more broad territory. If we’ve got the data for look-alikes. We use all of it, you know, we can spend there’s 20 different ways. You can use look-alikes effectively, you know, and then and then yes, we move a little bit more broad a little more open specially with more viral like videos like longer form 30 seconds or so, like there’s like, you know a hook and then education behind it. Then we’re going we’re trying to make something that can get a lot of shares attention. It’s things like that. You know, it’s interesting you actually when you create viral videos like videos that scale that are more appealing to just the general public. I mean back in the day when we first get started we call them Business Insider videos, just like, you know stories on the text on screen or generally around the product.
There is some there’s two things interesting that happened one is you get a lower CPM because you’re getting a lot of comments engagements, shares that kind of thing and then the second thing that happens is all of the traffic of like people tagging their partner people tagging their friends or shares and things like that all of the all the purchases that happen because of that don’t actually get tracked as paid media. They’re actually coming in as organic because you know, like when I share it to you and you click on it, you actually don’t see an ad you see a viral video that I tag you and that’s basically digital word of mouth. That’s happening between me and you, right?
Steve: Okay, yeah
Moody: And if you go and you convert off that that actually looks like Facebook organic. It doesn’t it doesn’t actually show up in your ads manager.
Steve: I see. So when you look at your stats, you got to look at the ads as well as the organic when you’re taking on this new account for return on ad spend?
Steve: Okay, so it sounds like you guys always go the viral video route?
Moody: It’s definitely something like it when it comes to making something like really blow up quickly. That’s the best route to do it. You know, another example is tap shoes. Are you familiar with tap shoes at all?
Steve: I’m not actually
Moody: Tap shoes make these amazing durable boots. They retail for about 250 bucks, you know, and they swear they’re worth five or six hundred and you know, because they’re basically Factory did indeed a see they can cut out the middleman and bring the price down to 250. They’re amazingly durable. They’re waterproof. They look incredible and you’ll see in the creative elements. It’s less about I mean they do talk about features and you know water resistant so they like splash water on there and Jumping in puddles that kind of thing but really people buy the boots because they just look so clean and beautiful and amazing. And so you’ll see a lot of their ads are focused around that where the boots are the center of the frame and you’ve got people walking you’ve got like different ways pants could fall on the boot.
I think a lot of people, you know struggle with like how do you style your pants with a with potential boots if you’re like in which what kind of pants do you wear with boots? You wear it in you wear it out that kind of thing they do they make it look effortless that any anything you wearing with that specific boot. It just looks so clean and so good and the other thing is they focus on people walking showing movement like and you just it’s interesting. It’s like you’re looking at this boot and you’re like, well, I just like have to have it. They really tap into that. I have to have this feeling that everyone has within them.
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So going back to your thumb stopping so you have one of these videos that you’re sending out to top a funnel and you’re looking for this thumb. Stop rate of 30% given that you meet that requirement. What would you expect to be a good return on ad spend on a top of funnel ad with one of these videos?
Moody: So it really depends on margins for these for these higher price point products like but of course there’s a insurance for a hundred and twenty bucks right on top is selling boots for 250. You know, you you can get away with a higher role as target like 4/5 x because you know, there’s a lot more, you know, you don’t have to you don’t have to there’s a lot more marketing enough to spend as much to get there the like lower targets like, you know, I think It depends like I think it’s a lot of the times like the way but Our Brands think about it especially brands are going for growth and going, you know going to become as big as possible as fast as possible.
They’re willing to spend as much to break even on the first sale knowing that potentially, you know, they can win customers especially if I mean most of the Brand’s we work with have an LTV of sorts or, you know have customers coming back. So they’re just trying to win customers and so they’re looking What their role as targets like basically break even and a lot of a lot of our brands are the back could be two and a half that could be 3x and so they can just they can funnel this Bond acquire as much customers as possible when on the second and third purchase and basically, you know show themselves as a as a highly fast-growing successful brand
Steve: In the case of that shirt. It sounded like they only had a single product though, right? So I would imagine the lifetime value of that. Would be less than the shoe company which probably sells a bunch of accessories. I would imagine right?
Moody: Well, so the thing about when you find a new win the male Market because heart men are fickle like we choose what we like and then we never we never switch off what we like women are a lot easier in the sense that they’d choose, the they’ll go and they’ll experiment and we’ll try different brands. Men and in the case, if you if you win over I’ve got people who bought an 18 shirts like they’ve come back. At 18 times.
Steve: Wow, okay.
Moody: You know the brand has been around for two and a half years and there’s people like literally there’s hundreds of people who bought three four five times or more. It’s so like, you know, the trick is once you have you know, once you get once you basically need to roll out, especially with apparel you need to be rolling out new Styles, you know, and as much as you can as possible, right so like like right now like, it’s March 5th. We’re going to be rolling into spring collections here in the next couple weeks and you’ll see that with most apparel Brands like this they’re going into spring. I mean, it’s not exactly cold or warm outside yet. But you know people start buying for spring here.
You know about second or third weekend of March April, you know, April May June are going to be big and then it slows down and tell you about somewhere in August and September of people are like, oh it’s going to get cold soon and so like they would usually would have bought everything they bought in for the season.
Steve: Can I get an idea of how much it costs to produce a video that you were just describing earlier?
Moody: So it’s interesting like the tap shoes ones. It’s just one cameraman and you know, a lot of different varieties of boots it all in one shot on a model with different pads. So like it doesn’t require a lot if you you know, if you really study like a lot of how these videos look, I mean if anyone can go to tap shoes, right like Taft and look at the ads that the running in their ads library and you’ll see like a lot of good examples of these but essentially like it doesn’t require so you got you gotta get a cameraman could you know, I think you know, the freelance camera person in LA is pretty abundant like you can find them anywhere.
Although also, you know, there’s creators literally in every City now that are popping up learning me. Skills that’s thanks to the Internet. So, you know it you could get a cameraman for 150 200 bucks 300 bucks. You could also barter with like three product or whatever it good you have is and then, you know getting a model to to be part of this you’re looking at a hundred fifty to two hundred dollars and then an edit it’s from an editing perspective. It’s another to it could be about $200. I mean, these are like, you know, you can get these for lower but two or there hundred bucks, you can make a range of videos I’d say.
The thing is like you might want to try different hooks different text on screen. So you might want different iterations of that specific creative that you shot and so you could probably do a shoot day for three four hundred bucks with the cameraman and a model and then you can do a do a bunch of assets with an editor for a few days and that can be anywhere between three and five hundred bucks so you can maybe like at the least get a bunch of video assets like maybe four or five videos to run for a you know, maybe a thousand bucks.
Steve: Okay. Yeah, that doesn’t sound bad at all.
Moody: Yeah, that’s and that’s the Baseline like you can get you can get even lower. If you go do it yourself with an iPhone. Like there’s a lot of videos. We spend a lot of time actually doing a lot of UGC content user-generated content or we just run around the office, especially the brands like new and you know, you know, we just gotta do a lot of testing before we really can invest Will do will actually go shoot UGC content or will send product out to bunch of influencers or our friends and family and will literally shoot the content we think is right to convert and we’ll turn those into ads and so you can get it down even more.
I’ve got like a lot of our campaign managers like just for fun create their own ads for Brands sometimes and you know, that’s you know, that’s just them spending an hour shooting an ad maybe then drinking like a tea or supplement or you know, I don’t know. It’s like a lot of the times it’s use case right? It’s like how are you using the product if it’s apparel if it’s a little bit trickier. But if it’s like, you know things like we’ve got a lot of kitchen appliances or makeup or you know, skincare or supplements, you know, it’s like it’s literally just the action of like taking the product or using it or doing it tutorial that kind of thing that could turn into a successful ad.
So yeah, I mean like you can really bring it down if you just get crafty yourself. The principles are the same right? It’s like people need to see it being used. They needed. They need to see the value. Like it doesn’t matter necessarily how the how big the it creative investment is if the principles are right.
Steve: So once you have these creatives, let’s say you have like a set of three or four videos that you’ve edited and ready to go. How do you typically set up your initial ad campaigns top of funnel starting from nothing?
Moody: So top of funnel starting starting from nothing. I just would Savage I figure out who this this audience like who the audience is that’s going to look if you’re starting actually from nothing. You can create a list of audiences that makes sense for your brand. So like you know, who’s your competitor set? See if you can you can find you know those Brands but then maybe based off of a bunch of like demographic data or just a really solid strong guests of who your buyer might be I’d start that way with just interests. And then if once you start to like once you start to run track like basically in when I go a little bit more into the fundamentals. It’s all a conversion campaigns for purchases.
Almost all right out the gate. If you’ve got a higher price point product, then you can consider doing something like add the carts just to gauge intent, but what you’re tracking is like what are the odds that are you know, my best like, you know link through CTRs that I can spend money towards but then as you’re getting that deeper Insight, like what’s my cost for add the cart it what’s my cost per initiate check out like am I getting actual purchases from this, you know, you want to kind of track all of that and see which one’s giving you the clear Direction and then start to focus and spend your money there.
And so what you’re going to test is going to test audiences you’re going to test a bunch of creative and copy angles. And as soon as you start to get like insights on to what’s actually working keep diving deeper into those things once you have enough traffic to the website and you get enough people who are you know, actually, you know engaging with your brand in some way you want to turn those into look like so you’ll have like, you know at the very minimum you have like local eggs off of people of website visitors because those people showed intent and then, you know, add to carts once you get up to like 500 or a thousand add to carts. You can make a look like after that.
Steve: What are some guidelines in terms of number of conversions? Whether you decide to go purchases versus add to cart. Why would you go add to cart instead of purchases? The only reason is you would have more add to carts, right?
Moody: It depends how much budget you have and how much you’re willing to spend to learn without getting a return. You know, if you do add to carts in the beginning you’re at least generating and testing especially if it’s a brand-new at account. You’re not going to have the data that the Facebook algorithm and your own account is it’s not going to have the data to go out and find purchases out of date one, so you to like give it like a easier goal, whether that’s literally traffic or engagement or you know a little bit deeper in the funnel where you go to like add to carts, you know, Facebook and start to learn and find that Target easier because you can create, you know, you can create a lot more ad to carts before you can create purchase, especially if you’re starting at a really low budget.
Steve: So do you have a guideline of how many conversions That you would need to kind of train Facebook.
Moody: So I would say you would need you probably need about a hundred conversions of like add to carts and you might see a couple purchases here and there but once you’re up to like Fifty to a hundred purchases, then you’re like switching to purchases.
Steve: Okay. All right, and in terms of the number of creators that you test in any given ad set do kind of limit that or do you just kind of throw everything that you have created in there?
Moody: So in the ad set, you know, you’re not I wouldn’t run more than ten or twelve creatives. I would try yeah, like because you know at least in the ad set level and then I would try to make decisions quickly. I would try to if things are right like so so like you might see like high CTR and it followed through with like low add to carts and actual some purchases. Like that’s that’s the best-case scenario. Sometimes you get a high CTR, but no follower through. So I would just make decisions and then go back and see like if like I’m getting good CTRs and no follow through a public killing that ad.
If it’s not like completely if it’s not like out of the box like just killing it like just doing really well and then I might go back and check and see if they actually, you know with attribution got anything, you know, because a lot of sales don’t actually happen until you know, it takes two to three days depending on your price point for somebody to purchase. That product so it’s all the so something else to consider is just you know, how much how much learnings are happening in attribution and you might be making decisions too quickly.
Steve: So how quick do you wait? How long do you wait before you start shutting things down? That’s not working? couple days?
Moody: Yeah, it’s really more of a spend Factor. Like if I’m spending if I’ve spent three times my like totally AOV like let’s say so let’s say my total AOV is a hundred bucks. If I spent three four five hundred bucks, and I’m not getting I’m not getting any purchases out of that. I could clearly spent too much right, you know if I’m spent if I’ve spent 200 bucks and I’ve gotten add to Cart cost. That’s let’s say, you know, I don’t know. Five times lower than the AOV so like let’s say 20 bucks. Let’s say my add to cart is 20 bucks and I’ve spent 300 bucks and got a few purchases coming in. I’m probably in a good place where I might break even pretty soon and that that math is simply my AOV is a hundred my CPA can be 50.
Let’s say like, you know out the gate and so we optimized it down. So I’m looking to make you know for Says out of 200 dollars in ad spend, you know, and but I’m getting you know my add to cart rate. Let’s say is in the you know, 15 to 20 range. And I know those probably will hit depending on how smooth my funnel is like, you know, it depends how you know, how good are you at connect at converting people from add to carts to purchases. So, you know, you kind of just backing out the equation.
Steve: Sure, right. I mean, there’s a lot of variables involved obviously. So what is your take on like just all the different places that you can run ads now, there’s like 12 different places now, right? Instagram right hand side, Newsfeed, messenger, Marketplace do just try them all or?
Moody: yeah. So power 5 is you know, and is something that Facebook rolled out and we’re very much aligned with power 5, which is like open audiences, you know, open placements, right? Like those are you know, CBO like these are things that I agree with and we don’t think we’re not place them in agnostic unless it comes to stories but even stories like you can you can craft custom and in the ad unit. So but we run across the board and let Facebook figure out because what the Facebook doesn’t tell you is it doesn’t tell you the journey it took to get somebody to convert so it might be, you know served on IG mobile serves on Facebook right hand rail then served on you know.
On mobile desktop mobile for Facebook and then the conversion happened. Well, the only thing that’s going to get the credit is that last touch
Moody: So like you don’t actually get the full picture and by giving Facebook full rains to know the vote like actually optimize against the full picture is best practice.
Steve: I see, And so in terms of creative, do you have different creatives depending on where it’s being shown like give us some. Yeah. Okay
Moody: Yeah, for the most part stories, stories like they’re you know, they’re just It’s a different type of creative and the news feed that’s where you really want and stories are like half of the inventory nowadays. So like you want specifically you want stories. You won’t story creative for the stories placement.
Steve: In general. Do you separate all the mediums into separate ad sets when you’re targeting or did? Do you know what I mean? like one ad said, yes right hand one ad set just for Newsfeed?
Moody: No, we combine everything. And then in the down at the ad level we be plugin custom creative to stories.
Steve: Okay, and so stories is pretty much the only custom created that you use?
Steve: So, when do you decide that an ad that you’re running you can actually scale that and then what is your procedure for scaling that ad?
Moody: So if you know, sometimes it takes a bit of time look at best case scenario you throw the ad in and you start just seeing a lot of traffic to your site start seeing a lot of conversions happening, especially if you’re running only to if you’re only running Facebook ads and you never had traffic before and now you have a bunch of traffic, I wouldn’t trust the platform too much as much I should just trust you know, what you’re seeing on your back end and Shopify and then if things look good if you’re like breaking even or better I’d start to you know, just double that budget or increased by like 25 to 50% depending.
Like if you started small, you’re like look, I think there’s a different type of spend or this different types of performance at different spend levels. If you’re openly targeting or targeting pretty Broad and you’re spending $100 a day from being up to $200 or $300 day shouldn’t be too much of a difference. You know, I think there’s like different tiers like going from a hundred to a thousand dollars a day is like one tier going from A thousand and three thousand dollars a day is its own tier and then spending like 5,000 or 10,000 dollars a day its own effort in and you know has its own set of challenges as well.
If you’re you know, if you’re spending 50 or $100 a day or so or something like that. You’re not going to get too much of a drop in performance. If you move up to a couple hundred dollars more a day. So like I’m quick with budgets I look I don’t have time to like we know clients and Everyday, like they’re hiring us to find performance.
Moody: So like I’m I gotta find I got to make it win quick and you know, I don’t you know, I think like, you know, so I see solid performance especially if I’m spent seeing like profitable performance then I’m quick to increased budgets quickly.
Steve: And how big is this audience like, so if you have to spend like a thousand dollars a day, like how big should that audience be to kind of avoid burnout? Like when you determine that an audience is kind of burnt out?
Moody: Essentially, it’s like when I start seeing like a 25% drop in performance consistently I start to consider. I don’t think I actually don’t think audiences burnout as much as creative burns out like this is literally the problem.
Moody: You know what I mean? Like your look alikes if they’re off like Dynamic data like purchase that whatever like those won’t change as much as you’re actually that that audience will be fruitful. I mean, you know, there’s two million people in that audience and this is what Facebook is determined the best audience to hit based off of that purchase set and you know, unless you’ve got 2 million people purchasing, you know, they don’t that audience really isn’t worn out
Steve: Right, Okay.
Moody: You can poke holes in that but essentially like, you know, I think creative fatigues a lot quicker than your audience is due and creative is more like I think if you’re seeing if you’re seeing a drop in performance consistently over two, three, four days even as you lower budgets because you maybe you’re watching that I would start to consider that to be a fatiguing creative. You could also look at audience insights and you can actually see how many people have seen your creative once, you know, you can look at, actually, sorry, campaigning outside insights, but you can see like when people are actually dropping off to your creative.
And it once you’re seeing like 25 or 30% I wouldn’t kill that creative. I’d lower down significantly until it wasn’t performing and then I would move it to make a remarketing campaign because it was clearly a hero. So like in remarketing I would want to have like basically a rotational all the hero creatives because if I’m running new topic on the creatives chances are there’s still people haven’t seen those new ones or those old ones and so like in a seven-day remarketing I might have like three or four Heroes along with bottom puddle messaging to convert that user.
Steve: How often do you typically rotate your career? Herbs, and that’s a broad question. I mean you look at performance obviously, but what do you see that you’re rotating it? What frequency rotating them at?
Moody: Yes, I’m trying to find so like it’s you know, you want to have your scaling like create the creative that’s working out and then you know, there’s a life cycle, you know for like it there again lifestyle cycle on creative is actually fairly short. Like we can’t like something will work for three weeks and then it’ll die down. So like we can constantly have to be bringing in new creative like every week so we have like a rigorous like testing schedule of created that we’re bringing into the newsfeed.
Also, you know, we’ve got like editors that are just constantly chopping up new creative as we get it giving it to our team our ads team. And so what we’re launching things like literally twice a week trying to find our next winners because we know they’re only going to last about three weeks before we have to start to scale them down. And that’s I mean, that’s a higher scale
Steve: Yeah. I mean you guys are spending five to ten thousand dollars a day, right?
Moody: Somewhere right there. I can’t really talk numbers.
Steve: Yeah, sure. Sorry, but you don’t have to. The higher your spend the more often. You have to rotate your ads out essentially? Is that accurate?
Moody: Yeah, The higher? Yeah a hundred percent and I would say like you’re the right creatives could work for a long time. Like they if it’s actually a lower spends like the right creatives could work for two, three months and you know not have to be something that would be like complete like you don’t have to be You could introduce creatives every couple of weeks at like lower spends. We’ve literally had creatives that you know, they’re right and they have the viral factor and they hope people in and they sell people on the product.
They literally blasted like a year and a half in some cases like you just get unicorn creatives occasionally, which is like, right? Yep. That one’s go running. You know.
Steve: So I guess the key Point here is you don’t look at frequency, or what not you just basically determine this based on performance. And so if you’re seeing something two to three days underperformed by 25% then it’s time to potentially rotate that out.
Steve: And you were use all your creatives like your hero ones and your retargeting ads in the bottom of the funnel. And that’s that.
Moody: Yeah. We also have some bottom of the funnel specific messaging but that you got to really figure out what people’s objections are what are their fears or doubts about you as a company like what you got to build ad specifically to fit those that and maybe even like, you know, usually little bit of a promotion to get people off the fence, but those are really important in bottom of the funnel everyone wants to spend a lot of time on what’s appealing about the brand a lot of people don’t really talk about like, you know deep down, you know, what are the big objections that are people keeping people keeping people away from really pulling the trigger. Those are really really important.
Steve: So given those examples that you gave like what were some of the objections that you kind of addressed in your bottom of funnel?
Moody: So it could be could be quality/price, you know, you can do that easily with testimonials. Testimonials actually work top of funnel as well could be you know, just driving some sort of promotion like hey, you know come back at 10% off try it. Also have a really strong satisfaction guarantee or return policy. So like, you know, hey, like try this risk-free get 10% off today or you know, you know, we’ve got a hundred percent satisfaction guarantee like product or service it whatever.
Steve: Hmm Yeah.
Moody: Hundred percent satisfaction guarantee.
Moody: And so like just having those ads is there as like just a reminder like that you got that the brand is putting his best foot forward. It wants to turn into light the customer and just you know, it’s that helps and you’ll get those are profitable ads that are usually have that usually work very well and remarketing. Now we have going for like all of our brands.
Steve: Okay. Hey Moody. We’ve been chatting for quite a while and I want to be respectful of your time. Where can people find you guys if they need your services.
Moody: So yeah, moody@MuteSix.com or just our website and also hiring I really am looking forward Champions who want to come in all levels whether they’re on the creative side and want to learn advertising or if their campaign managers and want to run Media, or if they you know, what they specifically work in, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be Facebook. We’ve got a Programmatic team that we just started really excited about you know, we’ve got an Amazon team looking for more Champions on our Amazon team if you know Amazon really really well whether that’s organic or paid. I’d love to talk to you. Yeah, they’re like to
Steve: Do you have a URL for that or or you just want them to email you directly?
Moody: You can email me directly. You can see available careers on our website under I think MuteSix.com/careers, but in the definitely in the hamburger menu, but yeah, that’s the best way you can also if your brand you want to work with us. You can find go to our Site, or you can email me directly.
Steve: And I do just want to say that these guys really know their stuff when it comes to advertising and creative. So, you know, even if you feel like you’re good at this stuff, you will learn a lot if you if you contact Moody and work there. I’m sure like if I wasn’t running all my stuff I go work for you guys. Heck you’re famous, dude, so. Haha Alright so Moody, thanks a lot for your time. I really appreciate it man.
Moody: Thanks so much. It’s been a pleasure.
Steve: All right. Take care.
Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now Moody is one of my go-to guys when it comes to making creatives for Facebook ads and for more information about this episode go to mywifequitherjob.com/episode308.
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Outro: Thanks for listening to the My Wife Quit Her Job Podcast where we are giving the courage people need to start their own online business. For more information visit Steve’s blog at www.mywifequitherjob.com